Jim_Pipp wrote: »

There seems to be a misperception that this PR exercise is to make the game more playable. It's not.

People with loud voices and influence are being pampered and flattered so they can keep the hype train going for morrowind. In the same week we had the Superbowl advert, Facebook advertising and numerous puff piece "news stories" this is another part of the marketing strategy.

All the 'delegates' will be sympathetically listened too and token changes made. They will leave with a feeling of personal investment in ESO and a desire to keep the game going, and will use their influence at a time many new players may be considering the game.

Zos will do some low-key self promotion (e.g. tweeting pics of developers and players at a round table) to imply they listen to their players and it is no big deal.

They could have involved more players for far less cost using teleconferencing, but that wouldn't serve the real purpose of this exercise. Unfortunately too long with ZOS is making me very cynical.

This man understands how corporations work. ZOS is a subsidiary of ZeniMax Media, the parent company that owns Bethesda Softwork, id Software, Arkane studios, etc. I'll ask you this: Marlboro cigarettes, just like any other are harmful. Owned by the parent company Philip Morris, who also own Kraft Foods and General Foods. You may go to the grocery store, and think to yourself "Here is a company that cares about our health. Cheerios, good for the heart!". And while it may be better than other cereals out there, they don't make it because they care about your heart health. They make it because they know people will buy it based on the premise that it's good for your health. If they cared about your health, then why continue production of cigarettes... So now, if you think that ZeniMax Online Studios has your interest consistently in mind, you people would then be very naive and well...quite stupid too. To assume that content such as battlegrounds, new dungeons, new trials, homes are released because you requested it? Maybe, but unlikely. When people do datamining in the game, they find instances of evidence suggesting plans that ZOS had in mind for the game, even before the requests of people at times. No, my poor naive children, they release this content not because you asked for it, but because they planned to all along. They know it will bring in money, and honestly who could blame them. They are company first and foremost, with hundreds of employees that they must send home with a paycheck, so that they too can feed their families.

Now, that's not to say a company can ignore the people who play this game, otherwise they would have no customers, but to say that a "few representatives" of the gaming community will help ZOS in understanding balance changes and future content ideas? Sheer folly. This is a PR move, first and foremost. To quiet down the masses, and make them...docile. The bug updates and balance changes may come, but that is not their priority. Their priority is 1) How can we keep the majority of players to continue playing and continue buying our services? 2) How can we bring in new players to buy our game and continue to play, with purchases of our services?

Sometimes, a company breaks out of the mold, to produce changes in a game that may not necessarily profit them, but that's usually because the higher ups begin to have the good in their conscience weigh down upon them, in addition to realizing that NOW (at the current moment in time, whenever that will be) the majority player base has become dissatisfied with the current balance state and bugs within the game. I will admit though, that if Fengrush goes and they listen to him, it will bring in a more balanced approach to what should be changed in this game, as he represents the critical, albeit sometimes cynical side of the game. But for the health of the game, you need two sides. Not just constant butt-kissing. If you have just constant butt-kissers (not saying the others attending are, just speaking hypothetically), then ZOS may end up getting a misconstrued version of what changes really need to happen in the game. Essentially point is here, the more "representatives" ZOS brings in to meet with them, the better for the game and for the general masses who play this game, as that allows multiple view points to be conveyed on what ZOS should and shouldn't fix. Whether ZOS will listen to those view points is something we will never know, but, my bet is ZOS will implement "changes" (whatever they may be), if it brings in more players (whether new or returning), or prevents a large loss in players, and therefore help maintain a steady cash flow.

And here I am, just happy that this probably means we'll get more info on Morrowind soon, too.

Hope the guys and gals that got invited have a good time.

willlienellson wrote: »

Kronuxx wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

People with loud voices and influence are being pampered and flattered so they can keep the hype train going for morrowind. In the same week we had the Superbowl advert, Facebook advertising and numerous puff piece "news stories" this is another part of the marketing strategy.

This man understands how corporations work.

Nobody is doubting the marketing value of the relationship between the streamers and Zos. But they don't need to pander to them or let them have ANY influence on balancing for that relationship to continue.

These streamers exist to gain fame and in some cases personal income from the game - which is fine, and Zos gets free advertising in return - which is fine.

They don't need to have more influence on game direction than anyone else for that symbiotic relationship to continue.

And other business and industries don't operate this way. They don't.

They have this relationship between media (I'm being generous) and corporate, but product development and creative direction is never in play.

I think you didn't quite read what I or the person I quoted wrote.

I couldn't care less for streamers tbh. I neither watch their vids nor consider them worthy to follow. They just don't exist for me. I never understand why people watch these vids and waste their time to do so instead of actually playing the game by themselves. But if they are good just like any other good players and fully objective in their opinions then why not? Moreover, I don't recall that ZOS stated that the invited players are only streamers.

What I do hope is that @Asayre got an invitation. Not inviting this guy would be a huge mistake since he's one of the few players who really know how the game works. I would even say: hire him, ZOS.

The only thing i´m concerned about is no dedicated magica sorc being part of the club.

Deltia wrote: »

[snip]

@Deltia

Come on man. I agree with most of what @willlienellson has said, and my agreement with him has nothing to do with jealousy.

If a game wants to see improved player satisfaction and improved player retention - because both are required for sustainable income growth - then it needs to listen to more than the top 1%, the top 5% or even the top 25% of players.

Let me clue you in to something. You are not there because they think you are a great player, even though you may be. You are there because you have 110,000+ followers on youtube.

All The Best
[edited to remove quote]

leepalmer95 wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Hey man at least these streamers can spell ZeniMax right.

Oh darn. That completely refutes everything I said. Totes.
I didn't even bold the corporate name, or capitalize it in the middle. I'm so ashamed of myself.

Most popular streamers tend to play all classes, they tend to have a lot of play time in the game. They play the game at a very high level and know what they are talking about.

So why shouldn't zos bring in high end players for testing? Is that such a bad thing.

I can tell you an interesting story from one MMORPG.
Once upon a time, developers decided to make a closed test of a huge patch with completely changed classes. It wasn't a PTS, they invited only 100 top-players from the biggest and the most famous guilds to that test. That players are top-donators of course and top-PvPers and they supposed to be very interested in balance and other aspects of the game. A lot of complaints and whining was on the forums after that news. People said "what are you doing? Why not PTS for all?". Developers answer was "We're believe that feedback from a few of top-players will be more accurate and correct".
Well, after that was a PTS for other players. And there was unseen disbalance. Warriors killed every one with only one button with AoE debuff. Druid DoTs didn't work properly and their DPS in DD-build was lower than other classes in Support-build. Every support-class was a killing machine with their own buffs, debuffs and self-healing. Healers died in 5-6 secs because support-classes was able to control them immediately, imagine that healer just stands and can do nothing untill he die.
That is an example practice. If developers gonna listen to a couple of top-players instead of forum community, then do not expect anything good.

willlienellson wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Open world being so easy contributes to the lack of skill we see within Veteran Dungeons on a regular basis.

I would at least agree with that at least.

Look, my issue is two-fold. First, I don't think they represent us. I don't think they can represent us because of how different their experience is. But secondly - even if I'm wrong, and just as important, I find it offensive on principle how established methods of feedback from the general playerbase is roundly ignored while they seek feedback from a select few.

95℅ of the playerbase has no clue on what's going on with the game or how the classes are suppose to be played. Majority of ideas I see on the forums would completely break the game. There are too many players who lack skill and then blame that lack of skill on class balance, Or lack a understanding of a class they are playing and then say that class is weak when in reality they aren't playing it right. These players shouldn't be used for balance because they lack experience of game mechanics. So the players that should be used doesn't necessarily have to be streamers but they do need to use good players with a lot of experience

Willie you need to calm down...

willlienellson wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Open world being so easy contributes to the lack of skill we see within Veteran Dungeons on a regular basis.

I would agree with that at least.

Look, my issue is two-fold. First, I don't think they represent us. I don't think they can represent us because of how different their experience is. But secondly - even if I'm wrong, and just as important, I find it offensive on principle how established methods of feedback from the general playerbase is roundly ignored while they seek feedback from a select few.

I agree. So.. How many % of players those streamers need to represent ? Only PvP players ? or PvP and PvE players ? PvP and PvE balancing are two different things. And it is hard to find a solution that will suit both pve and pvp. There will be always someone that will be unhappy with some in-game changes.
The trick is to make as much as possible people to be happy.

Wait guys wait, i know this one... The best players to represent our player base, should be the ones who complain about everything and everyone in the forums.

pattyLtd wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

Well, i don't really know who you would like to "represent" us players or how they should go about selecting them?.

Bislobo wrote: »

Wait guys wait, i know this one... The best players to represent our player base.....

Why do you feel inadequate to represent yourselves? Just curious.

Are you serious?
LOL, how many people do you exactly expect them to invite?

I think his point is that they don't need to invite anyone at all .

They already have the Forums and the PTS and combined they will provide several orders of magnitude more feedback than a handful of players can ever manage.

I may be wrong, but I thought that was somewhat obvious from his opening post.

All The Best