WRONG FEEDBACK SOURCE Streamers don't represent most players

Heroeric1337 · February 2017

Although I could be wrong, im pretty sure they have the streamers there to display and advertise what they have in the works...If they wanted feedback on changes to be made to the game, they wouldn't spend the money to have them over for something that could be resolved with simple communication

willlienellson · February 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

Gimme a break. I suppose you think that you represent the majority of the player base.

You supposed wrong. And nothing I wrote even remotely suggests so.

But I think if Zos is using company resources to collect feedback from a half dozen game streamers while they simultaneously roundly ignore most player feedback, it's a problem.

[Edit to remove insulting content]

LrdRahvin · February 2017

LrdRahvin wrote: »

I was part of the invite only Psijic Order alpha server that had several really big guilds in other games brough on to test stuff pre-pre-launch and I can confirm it wouldn't matter at all. ZOS doesn't pay any more attention to invited testers than they do to the forums.

This is all just PR and playerbase placating.

Heroeric1337 wrote: »

Although I could be wrong, im pretty sure they have the streamers there to display and advertise what they have in the works...If they wanted feedback on changes to be made to the game, they wouldn't spend the money to have them over for something that could be resolved with simple communication

See above and you are correct.

Solariken · February 2017

While your premise may be solid and I may share your concerns OP, let's remember that at the end of the day this is simply a calculated PR activity - I'm willing to bet that it's less about choosing players with the most valuable feedback potential and much more about choosing players with the biggest following/platform via which ZOS can show that they are making efforts to connect with the community.

Bislobo · February 2017

Meting with players to get feedback is always a step in the right direction. Streamers play the game a lot, so they are a good source of information.

Rohamad_Ali · February 2017

I honestly do not know what exactly they are giving feedback on so I can't really judge . I assume Warden because they mentioned "Theory Crafter" in Ginas post and I'm almost sure they would like to see what that class can and can't do . Any of Us could give feedback on Battlefields .

While I don't disagree with all of your post and am putting judgement of past arguments on other subjects aside , I don't think those players at ZoS need to lumped in with a cheating post . They just don't deserve that . FENGRUSH is very critical of ZoS whether you like him or not and helped shed light on cheating last year . I don't think Deltia can be lumped in as a Elitist as he is very helpful with people and I don't know much about Sypher so won't make a assumption but he has never struck me as someone negative .

Anyways this is not the first time ZoS has asked for player help as SirAndy mentioned and I really think it's more of a PR move to be more inclusive with the community , which I actually like . I wish them the very best while there and hope they bring their A game to the table . I just want to focus on the positive of this . Still , I respect your opinion .

bitels · February 2017

Maybe ZoS would not do that if every feedback thread wasnt made of 99% useless insluts and QQ posts and only 1% that are well thought and constructive opinions about changes.

Also- it isnt like they wont give us all chance to test things on PTS before realese, so maybe just chill

Tapio75 · February 2017

Couple of streamers are not my representatives. I have watched few of those and they do not really represent my wievs at all.

Community representatives should be selected by community in game vote like in EVE online, that way there should be sufficient number of people from all around the game.

Sypher · February 2017

People keep jumping to conclusions that everyone invited is a streamer. When in reality I'm pretty sure most are just active community members and long time players who actively partake in feedback and testing.

/shrug

Oompuh · February 2017

The fact of that matter is they have Streamers, Youtubers, Hardcore PvE'rs like members of Hodor and Mundus, and PvPr's and other notable names. They know their names, we know their names, they're not just gonna ask random people who play their game to COME ON DOWN like this is the Price is Right or something.

Should they of invited you? The roleplayer in riften playing his lute naked? Or people from different sides of the game who talk to the community from within Twitch, Twitter, and Youtube? Top raiding guilds? Nah, what do they know.

kevlarto_ESO · February 2017

Just what we need people with personal agendas, speaking for the player base not a good idea, might as well bring in some cheaters and exploiters as well to speak for us, this is a fail on so many levels

Mojmir · February 2017

Sypher wrote: »

People keep jumping to conclusions that everyone invited is a streamer. When in reality I'm pretty sure most are just active community members and long time players who actively partake in feedback and testing.

/shrug

This sounds scripted, are you sure your not a hostage?

Sypher · February 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

People keep jumping to conclusions that everyone invited is a streamer. When in reality I'm pretty sure most are just active community members and long time players who actively partake in feedback and testing.

/shrug

This sounds scripted, are you sure your not a hostage?

*blinks twice*

send help

LrdRahvin · February 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

People keep jumping to conclusions that everyone invited is a streamer. When in reality I'm pretty sure most are just active community members and long time players who actively partake in feedback and testing.

/shrug

This sounds scripted, are you sure your not a hostage?

Dnes pleh esaelp a dnoces emit!!!

thankyourat · February 2017

Shouldn't ZoS balance the game around the best players though. Why would they use players who don't know how to maximize builds and abilities to their full potential to balance the game. That just makes the game more unbalanced because most of the time these players don't understan how the classes are designed to function.

LrdRahvin · February 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

because most of the time these players don't understan how the classes are designed to function.

Neither does Wrobel.

Your point?

Rex-Umbra · February 2017

Calm down man.

arkansas_ESO · February 2017

I'm cool with Fengrush and Sypher representing me, I know what they want from ESO is very similar to what I want

thankyourat · February 2017

LrdRahvin wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

because most of the time these players don't understan how the classes are designed to function.

Neither does Wrobel.

Your point?

Wrobel had to understand he designed the classes they function how he wants then to. Is it always the most balanced? No. But it's his decision. And my point is if we think wrobel doesn't understand the classes why bring in more people who don't understand to help him. Why not bring in people who actually know how to play the game?

Cadbury · February 2017

Eh, it's just like politics.

The representatives get appointed to speak on your behalf. They just hope past scandals don't get brought up.

LeifErickson · February 2017

You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

LrdRahvin · February 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

LrdRahvin wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

because most of the time these players don't understan how the classes are designed to function.

Neither does Wrobel.

Your point?

Wrobel had to understand he designed the classes they function how he wants then to. Is it always the most balanced? No. But it's his decision. And my point is if we think wrobel doesn't understand the classes why bring in more people who don't understand to help him. Why not bring in people who actually know how to play the game?

Actually the classes were designed by a Dev who hasn't been with ZOS for quite some time, NOT Wrobel.

I understand your point though...I still take exception to automatically equating streamers and/or high profile players with "best".

Hand_Bacon · February 2017

I generally trust them to do a good job at whatever it is they are doing.

The great trap is that the 1% have a habit of working only for the 1% instead of a focus on raising the middle to be more competitive with the 1%. If there is only 1% that truly understands how classes should function, then that needs to be translated into a better experience which educates the average user. That seems to fly in the face of convention as who would want to invite a more difficult experience or make it more difficult to be that 1%. As a long time athletics coach I can tell you that those world class athletes I met, who wanted to be the best, always invited the most difficult competitive situation and competitors. If e-sports, etc, wants to be respected as anything other than those who game a game, they must embrace the same attitude. I hope this group will take this approach. I think, from what I've seen, that they have the character to do so.

S1ipperyJim · February 2017

silky_soft wrote: »

Well they say 'top' theory crafters. Which is code for streamers that just copy other people builds and play them to a larger audience.

You want top theory crafters you need to look for the people who are cult heroes. Who are weeks if not months ahead of metas.

True, unless they are inviting people like Gil and Streakone, inviting people who openly copy their builds is not really representative of actual genuine theorycrafters

UrQuan · February 2017

Ideally I'd want to see them taking a lot of feedback from top theorycrafters, as well as very casual players. Have the top theorycrafters PVP against each other and run the toughest content, while the very casual players PVP against each other and run the type of content they'd be likely to run in-game anyway. That way you do a good job of testing the balance at the high end, while also making sure that things seem relatively balanced to people who don't eat drink and breathe the game. If feedback from one group contradicts feedback from the other it would have to be a judgment call, but most of the time the feedback from the top theorycrafters should prevail.

Why introduce very casual players to the mix? Because if things seem badly balanced to them (even if at top levels the balance is right), then that's reflective of the experience that a newer player will have. If newer players feel like the game is badly balanced (even if it's not at top levels), then they aren't likely to stick around. Any game like this will only survive as long as it keeps attracting new players to offset the inevitable attrition of long-time players that will occur no matter how good you are at retaining them. New players who leave almost immediately don't help with that though - they need to stay around long enough to turn into long-time players.

As far as the specific people being invited to this... Well, I haven't seen a list of them (I doubt anyone has), so I really can't judge whether ZOS has made good choices there or not. I've heard 3 names in particular, and honestly I don't regularly watch any of them. From what I have seen from them, though, I respect 2 of them.

Oompuh · February 2017

S1ipperyJim wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Well they say 'top' theory crafters. Which is code for streamers that just copy other people builds and play them to a larger audience.

You want top theory crafters you need to look for the people who are cult heroes. Who are weeks if not months ahead of metas.

True, unless they are inviting people like Gil and Streakone, inviting people who openly copy their builds is not really representative of actual genuine theorycrafters

Gilliam was invited and will be going to Zenimax HQ. Unsure about streak

jpeter88 · February 2017

sypher hands down knows PvP

deltia knows the game pretty well from top to bottom both pve and pvp

most of the top eso youtubers are at the "top" for a reason, they play every class, do all the content, they play the game a ton.

I think its about time they bring people in, they dont bring in people from the forums because most of the forum posters just complain, bash and whine about things THEY dont like offering zero constructive feedback. now i do see some posters that offer good knowledge but its vastly outdone and overlooked by the negative comments.

S1ipperyJim · February 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

S1ipperyJim wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Well they say 'top' theory crafters. Which is code for streamers that just copy other people builds and play them to a larger audience.

You want top theory crafters you need to look for the people who are cult heroes. Who are weeks if not months ahead of metas.

True, unless they are inviting people like Gil and Streakone, inviting people who openly copy their builds is not really representative of actual genuine theorycrafters

Gilliam was invited and will be going to Zenimax HQ. Unsure about streak

Nice!

Cadbury · February 2017

I guess we'll see future developments in Zerg technology

Rohamad_Ali · February 2017

@Sypher , if you could relay one very important concern of mine about the complete lack of Khajiit centric expansions , missions and content . I hope someone is representing the casual Khajiit players there and will promote all things Khajiit for the Khajiit community . Longer fur , bleached out fur on vampire Khajiit and obysmal passives come to the top of my head . Surely this would have been the most important focus if I had been present but in lue of this unfortunate mishap , I trust you will make things right and thank you for being a hostage so this important message could get relayed to the proper channels .