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ESO Plus how about a sweetener.
jarydf
✭✭✭✭
ZOS changed the rules of plus. It is not all dlc any more. But stuff happens and you get over it.
How about a sweetener that works for everyone?
I hate the gambling idea of crown crates and would not ever buy one.
If 1 crown crate was included in each months ESO Plus, then 12 times a year I get a free chance at content I would never choose to buy.
That sounds like a win for everyone.
Things change. Some better, some worse. We are all just trying to have fun and have the game grow and still exist in the long term.
How about a sweetener that works for everyone?
I hate the gambling idea of crown crates and would not ever buy one.
If 1 crown crate was included in each months ESO Plus, then 12 times a year I get a free chance at content I would never choose to buy.
That sounds like a win for everyone.
Things change. Some better, some worse. We are all just trying to have fun and have the game grow and still exist in the long term.
23
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Mwnci✭✭✭ZOS changed the rules of plus. It is not all dlc any more. But stuff happens and you get over it.
How about a sweetener that works for everyone?
I hate the gambling idea of crown crates and would not ever buy one.
If 1 crown crate was included in each months ESO Plus, then 12 times a year I get a free chance at content I would never choose to buy.
That sounds like a win for everyone.
Things change. Some better, some worse. We are all just trying to have fun and have the game grow and still exist in the long term.
Please clarify... You want a reward for being unable to understand the difference between an expansion and a DLC?Edited by Mwnci on February 3, 2017 8:00AMDovahkiin, Dovahkiin, naal ok zin los vahriin,
Wah dein vokul mahfaeraak ahst vaal!
Ahrk fin norok paal graan fod nust hon zindro zaan,
Dovahkiin, fah hin kogaan mu draal!7 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's not a horrible idea to smooth over the community and offer something a little nicer to the subscription.
However the argument could be made that's what you 1500 crowns are for.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."3 -
SwimsWithMemes✭✭✭✭@Mwnci no, he wants a compensation for having a paid agreement between consumer and distributor changed. However, they have given us 5 months notice of the change which is ample time to cancel your current payment if you feel like you should be entitled to freebies/are no longer satisfied by the arrangement under which you purchased their product.
Since this is so much advance time, it is unlikely ZOS will change ESO+ for any form of compensation, because they have not actually done anything wrong.
Personally, I would like to be told that we CAN buy Morrowind with crowns - I would wait an extra month, just so I can use my crowns on non-cosmetic content. This would be my ample compensation
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JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I prefer honey to sweetener.
And as an ESO+ subscriber for nearly 3 years I don't need any sweetener or honey for this imagined "slight" ZOS supposedly carried out. There is no "blow" to subscribers. This is the same forum "outrage" as happened with the crafting bag and numerous other things that people shouted about around here.
This too shall pass.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
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Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!11 -
Mwnci✭✭✭
You mean the paid agreement which includes a clause that states the provider is given the authority to alter the agreement at will, providing they supply adequate notification of said change? I believe the clause is 30 days, although that relates to a material change, not sure if that applies here.strebor2095 wrote: »no, he wants a compensation for having a paid agreement between consumer and distributor changed.
Agreed.strebor2095 wrote: »However, they have given us 5 months notice of the change which is ample time to cancel your current payment if you feel like you should be entitled to freebies/are no longer satisfied by the arrangement under which you purchased their product.
Which is why I find all the angry mewling to be quite silly; a simple read-through of the TOS/EULA would -I believe- have assuaged a lot of the indignation.strebor2095 wrote: »Since this is so much advance time, it is unlikely ZOS will change ESO+ for any form of compensation, because they have not actually done anything wrong.
Considering the price of Morrowind, I'd expect it to be stupidly expensive on the Crown Store, though I'm not against that at all.strebor2095 wrote: »Personally, I would like to be told that we CAN buy Morrowind with crowns - I would wait an extra month, just so I can use my crowns on non-cosmetic content. This would be my ample compensation
Dovahkiin, Dovahkiin, naal ok zin los vahriin,
Wah dein vokul mahfaeraak ahst vaal!
Ahrk fin norok paal graan fod nust hon zindro zaan,
Dovahkiin, fah hin kogaan mu draal!3 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭How is ESO+ any different then it was before? your still getting DLC, this is an expansion pack which is completely different.3 -
Cously✭✭✭✭✭
✭They could do so much for ESO+
Like get an increased number of Crowns depending how long you sub.
Or get discounts to purchase Crown Packs or items in Crown Store.
Get an exclusive pet if you sub for 3 months, an exclusive mount if you sub for 6 months.
Special title in game.
X number of courtesy crates.
Monthly drawings.
More cosmetic stuff based on how long you have been subbed, like the loyalty awards.
Discount on future Chapters.
I don't say that on my behalf, am a masochist ready to fully pay for my entertainment. But having those bonuses or something similar would go a long way to make people CRAVE to be members. I mean, look at Amazon Prime, I'm not even from America but I'd throw all my money to have such system in my country! Sweeteners really do the deal and you could throw mostly virtual crap that doesn't cost you anything to produce.2 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One thing someone else suggested and I would love to see is ESO+ not being charged for wayshrine use.
So we can zoom around the map without the costs.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »How is ESO+ any different then it was before? your still getting DLC, this is an expansion pack which is completely different.
This. They cling to an old quote about quarterly DLC content will be included in ESO+ and think now that quote should be a dogma. However, they didn't raged when they changed eso+ to give you a crafting bag or double the furniture in housing.0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think some players here want to pay more . They should raise the subscription cost not add more . ZoS needs to make real money . They do everything so well , we should pony up $25 a month at least . Maybe $30 . Save $50 a year too for each new chapter . Totally worth more .2 -
Nermy✭✭✭✭✭One thing someone else suggested and I would love to see is ESO+ not being charged for wayshrine use.
So we can zoom around the map without the costs.
We can, just port to someone on your friends list or in your guild *Ahem* and then port where you want to go...
@Nermy
Ex-Leader of The Wabbajack [EU EP PvP guild - Now stood down from active duty]BLOOD FOR THE PACT!!!
Nermden - EP Warden, Nerm-in'a'tor - EP Dragon Knight, N'erm - EP Sorcerer, D'arkness - EP Nightblade, Nermy - EP Templar
“Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.” ― Oscar Wilde
"An Army is a team; lives, sleeps, eats, fights as a team. This individual heroic stuff is a lot of crap." -General George S. Patton0 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭strebor2095 wrote: »@Mwnci no, he wants a compensation for having a paid agreement between consumer and distributor changed. However, they have given us 5 months notice of the change which is ample time to cancel your current payment if you feel like you should be entitled to freebies/are no longer satisfied by the arrangement under which you purchased their product.
There a six month sub option and the t&c's stae that there are no refunds for cancellation of subscription, so it is not that simple.
For some, like myself, it comes more down to how ZOS has handled this.
<snip of content due to inaccuracy and not wishing to present false information>
After telling/implying/promising/hoping (depending on your point of view) that they would be releasing 4 DLCs per year and that Subscribers would have free access to them, they went 2 months without releasing any DLC. They then stated their model had changed, and due to this change there would be no DLC until Q3 2017. Anyone who resubbed for 6 months between the last DLC and the 30th January had no idea this model had changed. As a result they will go up 12 months without any DLC.
Had ZOS announced at the launch of 1T that their model was changing, and offered subscribers the option of a refund for their remaining subscription, I wouldn't have a problem. But they didn't. They chose to continue leaving subscribers under the notion that they were continuing to subscribe to the old model and continued to take their money knowing full well no DLC was coming. Even with the announcement at the start of the week, there is no acknowledgement of the fact that for some subscribers, the change in business model would mean the perceived value of their subscription has changed, nor any offer of a refund should they wish to cancel as a result.
Edited by esotoon on February 3, 2017 9:31AM5 -
Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »How is ESO+ any different then it was before? your still getting DLC, this is an expansion pack which is completely different.
It's painful to see people defending ZOS this much. I agree that paying for Morrowind separately is absolutely fine given the notice provided, but to pretend it should be obvious that a downloadable expansion is "completely different" from downloadable content, as though this was expected and clear from day one of the "free DLC to subscribers" promise is really sickening.6 -
Mwnci✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »How is ESO+ any different then it was before? your still getting DLC, this is an expansion pack which is completely different.
It's painful to see people defending ZOS this much. I agree that paying for Morrowind separately is absolutely fine given the notice provided, but to pretend it should be obvious that a downloadable expansion is "completely different" from downloadable content, as though this was expected and clear from day one of the "free DLC to subscribers" promise is really sickening.
Completely different? No.
Different? Yes.
In legal terms, different is different. MW is an expansion, and the agreement is for free DLC. People have nothing to defend ZOS over because they didn't do anything wrong in this regard.Edited by Mwnci on February 3, 2017 9:11AMDovahkiin, Dovahkiin, naal ok zin los vahriin,
Wah dein vokul mahfaeraak ahst vaal!
Ahrk fin norok paal graan fod nust hon zindro zaan,
Dovahkiin, fah hin kogaan mu draal!0 -
Mwnci✭✭✭strebor2095 wrote: »@Mwnci no, he wants a compensation for having a paid agreement between consumer and distributor changed. However, they have given us 5 months notice of the change which is ample time to cancel your current payment if you feel like you should be entitled to freebies/are no longer satisfied by the arrangement under which you purchased their product.
There a six month sub option and the t&c's stae that there are no refunds for cancellation of subscription, so it is not that simple.
For some, like myself, it comes more down to how ZOS has handled this. When ESO went from Sub based to B2P, they acknowledged that this would leave some people subscribing to content, they wouldn't otherwise have subscribed to had they know about the upcoming change, and offered subscribers a refund for their remaining subscription should they wish to unsubscribe.
After telling/implying/promising/hoping (depending on your point of view) that they would be releasing 4 DLCs per year and that Subscribers would have free access to them, they went 2 months without releasing any DLC. They then stated their model had changed, and due to this change there would be no DLC until Q3 2017. Anyone who resubbed for 6 months between the last DLC and the 30th January had no idea this model had changed. As a result they will go up 12 months without any DLC.
Had ZOS announced at the launch of 1T that their model was changing, and offered subscribers the option of a refund for their remaining subscription, I wouldn't have a problem. But they didn't. They chose to continue leaving subscribers under the notion that they were continuing to subscribe to the old model and continued to take their money knowing full well no DLC was coming. Even with the announcement at the start of the week, there is no acknowledgement of the fact that for some subscribers, the change in business model would mean the perceived value of their subscription has changed, nor any offer of a refund should they wish to cancel as a result.
Do you perhaps have a link to this agreement? I'm interested in the wording thereof.
Dovahkiin, Dovahkiin, naal ok zin los vahriin,
Wah dein vokul mahfaeraak ahst vaal!
Ahrk fin norok paal graan fod nust hon zindro zaan,
Dovahkiin, fah hin kogaan mu draal!0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Maybe ZOS should learn about the word picking and entitlement of the forum users and release next years chapter only in physical form.
So no one can use the convenience of a downloadable alternative against them.0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »How is ESO+ any different then it was before? your still getting DLC, this is an expansion pack which is completely different.
It's painful to see people defending ZOS this much. I agree that paying for Morrowind separately is absolutely fine given the notice provided, but to pretend it should be obvious that a downloadable expansion is "completely different" from downloadable content, as though this was expected and clear from day one of the "free DLC to subscribers" promise is really sickening.
They are different and have been since the dawn of mmorpgs, I have been playing mmorpgs since everquest 1, your not thinking in terms of production for how big this expansion actually is, just because you do not prefer all of the content it offers does not make it costs any less to make, for crying out loud the pre order bonuses alone would cost quite a bit in the crownstore your getting a deal.0 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Do you perhaps have a link to this agreement? I'm interested in the wording thereof.
Do you mean regarding the switch from Subscription to B2P? If so, I think I was wrong about that. I could have sworn I saw/read something from ZOS earlier today that stated this, but everything 'official' I find when googling states that they would not be offering refunds.
I don't know if it's a case that I am mis-remembering (it's v.late!), or what, but until I can find information to back up what I said, I've deleted that paragraph from my post. I don't want to add false information to the mix.
Sorry.
Edited by esotoon on February 3, 2017 9:36AM0 -
Mwnci✭✭✭Do you perhaps have a link to this agreement? I'm interested in the wording thereof.
Do you mean regarding the switch from Subscription to B2P? If so, I think I was wrong about that. I could have sworn I saw/read something from ZOS earlier today that stated this, but everything 'official' I find when googling states that they would not be offering refunds.
I don't know if it's a case that I am mis-remembering (it's v.late!), or what, but until I can find information to back up what I said, I've deleted that paragraph from my post. I don't want to add false information to the mix.
Sorry.
Sorry, I meant the clause in the ESO+ agreement that stipulates ZOS are to provide us with a DLC each quarter.
The wording in contracts is very specific and subtle; for example, a lot of people don't know that "Up to 4 DLC a year" means they could provide 1 DLC in a year and still have legally fulfilled their contractual obligation.Edited by Mwnci on February 3, 2017 9:45AMDovahkiin, Dovahkiin, naal ok zin los vahriin,
Wah dein vokul mahfaeraak ahst vaal!
Ahrk fin norok paal graan fod nust hon zindro zaan,
Dovahkiin, fah hin kogaan mu draal!0 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorry, I meant the clause in the ESO+ agreement that stipulates ZOS are to provide us with a DLC each quarter. The wording in contracts is very specific and subtle; for example, a lot of people don't know that "Up to 4 DLC a year" means they could provide 1 DLC in a year and still have legally fulfilled their contractual obligation.
This is where a lot of the 'debate' resides. There is nothing in the t&c's stating that they will provide this. There are just comments from ZOS employees, in their official capacity, stating at various times that this is what they aimed to do and what the player could expect.
That's why the debate rages on. Some see this as Zos being shady and misleading the customer, even if legally they have every right to do it, and others see it as "You got exactly what the T&Cs say so what's the problem?".0 -
Mwnci✭✭✭Sorry, I meant the clause in the ESO+ agreement that stipulates ZOS are to provide us with a DLC each quarter. The wording in contracts is very specific and subtle; for example, a lot of people don't know that "Up to 4 DLC a year" means they could provide 1 DLC in a year and still have legally fulfilled their contractual obligation.
This is where a lot of the 'debate' resides. There is nothing in the t&c's stating that they will provide this. There are just comments from ZOS employees, in their official capacity, stating at various times that this is what they aimed to do and what the player could expect.
That's why the debate rages on. Some see this as Zos being shady and misleading the customer, even if legally they have every right to do it, and others see it as "You got exactly what the T&Cs say so what's the problem?".
This sounds like developer diaries in which the developers say "we'd like to have the ability for players to do X" and when it doesn't arrive, suddenly the developer is lying, etc etc.
If it's not in the agreement, it's neither enforceable by the customer, nor are ZOS legally obligated to comply. Which means the entire debate is moot.
Edited by Mwnci on February 3, 2017 10:23AMDovahkiin, Dovahkiin, naal ok zin los vahriin,
Wah dein vokul mahfaeraak ahst vaal!
Ahrk fin norok paal graan fod nust hon zindro zaan,
Dovahkiin, fah hin kogaan mu draal!0 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭This sounds like developer diaries in which the developers say "we'd like to have the ability for players to do X" and when it doesn't arrive, suddenly the developer is lying, etc etc.
It was also stated on their twitter feed. At public events, etc. Not sure if that makes any difference, just saying it wasn't just in the more casual setting of developers diaries.If it's not in the agreement, it's neither enforceable by the customer, nor are ZOS legally obligated to comply. Which means the entire debate is moot.
Then I hope people buying the digital version realise that no where in the T&Cs does it state you will get a 12 man trial, 30 hours of content, etc. etc.
Sorry, I'm being facetious.
My point being though, as a consumer of a subscription based service, you have to put some trust in a company to provide you with what they and their employees have implied you will be getting for that subscription. Especially as you are (as in this case), often paying ahead of time. If you feel like that trust is broken, and that you need a lawyer to tell you exactly what you can expect, and what the legal requirements of ZOS happen to have in your area of the world, every time they change something, or whenever you wish to purchase something from them, you are naturally not going to be inclined to support that company. It is therefor in the best interests of the company to communicate clearly their intentions, ahead of time, and offer refunds to those people who are locked into a subscription, should their business model change.
Do they have to do this? Nope. Is it legal to do what they have done? No idea, not a lawyer. Does it leave a bad taste in some customers mouths when they don't do this? Obviously so.
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FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All ESO+ members get extra 500 spell damage and weapon damage
idc if it's P2W lmao
Incoming hate in 3... 2... 1...0 -
Mwnci✭✭✭
In order to make it enforceable, needs to be in contract. Otherwise it's just a promise, and promises can be broken for whatever reason. People need to be realistic here.It was also stated on their twitter feed. At public events, etc. Not sure if that makes any difference, just saying it wasn't just in the more casual setting of developers diaries.
Ah, but it is advertised as having such; which can be legally binding, or legally allow a refund.Then I hope people buying the digital version realise that no where in the T&Cs does it state you will get a 12 man trial, 30 hours of content, etc. etc.
"I bought Morrowind for the 12 man trial, and they removed it" could be a perfectly valid argument in small claims court should the customer wish reimbursement and ZOS declines. The argument is that if it was advertised with no 12 man trial, the customer would not have bought the product.
Lil' bit.Sorry, I'm being facetious.
And we do. My ESO+ sub does not include "4 DLC a year", it includes any DLC that are released.My point being though, as a consumer of a subscription based service, you have to put some trust in a company to provide you with what they and their employees have implied you will be getting for that subscription.
I agree, which is why I think a 4 month notice period is acceptable. If someone has a 6-monther or a 12-monther, they should be able to contact ZOS support directly and have a chat with them if they are unhappy.Especially as you are (as in this case), often paying ahead of time. If you feel like that trust is broken, and that you need a lawyer to tell you exactly what you can expect, and what the legal requirements of ZOS happen to have in your area of the world, every time they change something, or whenever you wish to purchase something from them, you are naturally not going to be inclined to support that company. It is therefor in the best interests of the company to communicate clearly their intentions, ahead of time, and offer refunds to those people who are locked into a subscription, should their business model change.
Yep.Is it legal to do what they have done?
They are changing certain aspects of their service which the TOS/EULA allows them to do, they have provided notice of such change and have thus fulfilled their contractual obligations to their subscribers, regardless of what laws some people think ZOS have broken ( fun fact I totally didn't just make up: the majority of people who make this claim are wrong ).
Edited by Mwnci on February 3, 2017 11:37AMDovahkiin, Dovahkiin, naal ok zin los vahriin,
Wah dein vokul mahfaeraak ahst vaal!
Ahrk fin norok paal graan fod nust hon zindro zaan,
Dovahkiin, fah hin kogaan mu draal!0 -
Frondale✭✭✭Look at all you good Samaritans deciding how ESO Plus should be.
The Gimme attitude. The Jonses would be proud.
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jarydf✭✭✭✭It is all about managing perception.
I suggested the crown crates idea because it is easy for ZOS to give and it may help them with image of crown crates at the same time. 2 things that have an image problem for them fixed at once.
I will still buy ESO Plus, buy MW and look forward to playing it. I was more thinking about it from the point of view of what I would do if I was the ZOS marketing manager.
Peas, love and mung beans to you all.1
