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Magicka Roll Dodge
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thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »Stamina have dodge roll, magika have shields thats how it works
I just wish shields weren't so trash for solo PvP. I ditched my damage shield for heavy armor a long time ago. The only magicka class you will see using shields for the most part are MagSorcs because they can stack them. And maybe some bomb blades. But for the most part magblades, mag dks, and magplars all use heavy over a damage shield. If you are fighting more than one person a shield is really weak, not only that it's too expensive. Stamina build also have access to all their magicka utility skills to give them increased survivability. But I don't think magicka builds should get a magicka based dodge roll because of the option of going vamp and using mist form. Every magicka build should be using this ability. And fix cloak0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »In what world would be builds going 100% magicka while being completely freely available to perform every mean of defense while disregarding resources... interesting?
In the same world that stamina builds can do all of that now
Damn, where is that stam shield hidden. Where are the stam morphs for all the magicka only class abilities.
Tell me, if you could block and dodge with magicka, what would be stam used for on magicka character, except for never ending supply of break free resource.
//Edit:
Where is stam streak, where is stam cloak. No I am not saying every class should have equal skills, but youre basically saying your class of choice should have everything <class you dont play> has.
You're missing my point. I don't think there should be a magicka and stamina morph of every ability ever, I'm saying that stamina builds can use magicka abilities as essentially bonus abilities, as magicka can be completely ignored by a stamina class. Magicka builds cannot avoid using stamina in the way that stamina builds can avoid using magicka. Stam builds can slot zero magicka abilities, use zero magicka, and play effectively. Magicka builds have no choice but to use stamina when CC'd, when blocking an attack (except with a frost staff in the next update), or when wanting to dodge roll. I just feel like the game would benefit (and player creativity would flourish) if there was a magicka alternative to roll dodging.
Simplest way to remove that imbalance is making dodge roll and CC break draw resources from both magicka and stamina pools. So if a CC break costs 6000 stamina now, it would be changed to cost 3000 stamina and 3000 magicka. That way both stamina and magicka builds are equal in the CC game.2 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »Stamina have dodge roll, magika have shields thats how it works
I just wish shields weren't so trash for solo PvP. I ditched my damage shield for heavy armor a long time ago. The only magicka class you will see using shields for the most part are MagSorcs because they can stack them. And maybe some bomb blades. But for the most part magblades, mag dks, and magplars all use heavy over a damage shield. If you are fighting more than one person a shield is really weak, not only that it's too expensive. Stamina build also have access to all their magicka utility skills to give them increased survivability. But I don't think magicka builds should get a magicka based dodge roll because of the option of going vamp and using mist form. Every magicka build should be using this ability. And fix cloak
Overall I don't mind your assessment though I do have a problem with vampirism being the solution to a build. I really wish most Vampire abilities could be had elsewhere, at least in style if not artwork.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
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<And plenty more>0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »In what world would be builds going 100% magicka while being completely freely available to perform every mean of defense while disregarding resources... interesting?
In the same world that stamina builds can do all of that now
You don't play any stamina builds do you?@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »Stamina have dodge roll, magika have shields thats how it works
I just wish shields weren't so trash for solo PvP. I ditched my damage shield for heavy armor a long time ago. The only magicka class you will see using shields for the most part are MagSorcs because they can stack them. And maybe some bomb blades. But for the most part magblades, mag dks, and magplars all use heavy over a damage shield. If you are fighting more than one person a shield is really weak, not only that it's too expensive. Stamina build also have access to all their magicka utility skills to give them increased survivability. But I don't think magicka builds should get a magicka based dodge roll because of the option of going vamp and using mist form. Every magicka build should be using this ability. And fix cloak
Overall I don't mind your assessment though I do have a problem with vampirism being the solution to a build. I really wish most Vampire abilities could be had elsewhere, at least in style if not artwork.
Yes it's stupid. if you want to mobile and play magic your only choices are play mag sorc or be a vampire. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the class skills buffed to give magicka classes some added mobility1 -
IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »In what world would be builds going 100% magicka while being completely freely available to perform every mean of defense while disregarding resources... interesting?
In the same world that stamina builds can do all of that now
You don't play any stamina builds do you?
Two of the three characters I play are stamina builds actually, DK and NB. Neither of them uses magicka (pretty much) at all (with the exception of cloak on the NB) and can effectively manage resources while dealing damage, breaking CC, and dodging attacks when necessary. My magicka DK is completely incapable of defending itself (partly due to the laughably poor sustainability mag DKs inherently have) when CC'd two or three times in a fight. At that point, it becomes impossible to block damage, it becomes impossible to relocate (as I'm usually CC'd or rooted), and the resources I would have been allocating to kill my attackers must instead go to holding up damage shields until my stamina regenerates (which is slowly, despite being a vampire). And a lot of people are saying mist form is the answer, to which I would say, that's half true. Elusive mist is certainly a good way to take far less damage and escape a situation in the same way dodge roll is, but with the added inability to cast other abilities, such as shields or self heals.0 -
SaRuZ✭✭✭✭✭Magicka builds do not need Stamina so breaking CC & Roll dodge aren't an issue.
Stamina builds use stamina pool for abilities so roll dodge & breaking CC drain their only resource pool.
It's balanced. I use Magicka to restore my stam(Dark Deal) and Magicka for Streak and that's all I need Magicka for. Everything else is Stamina based so breaking CC, Blocking & Roll Dodge severely depletes my Stamina pool on top of all my Stamina abilities.Edited by SaRuZ on February 3, 2017 7:37AM0 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭I've been saying this since close beta:
1. Blocking or Break Free from magic attacks should cost Magicka
2. Blocking or Break Free from physical attacks should cost Stamina
3. Roll Dodge should cost both
4. Magicka builds should have an alternative to sprint that cost Magicka, maybe Levitation?1 -
Cously✭✭✭✭✭
✭After they enabled Harness to absorb all kinds of damage, there is no need for a dodge option for magicka builds.0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »Frost staves will be allowing magicka-based blocking, so any chance in the future we see magicka-based roll dodges? Maybe some kind of teleport or something so that it makes sense (seeing as leaping and rolling actually would be physically taxing in real life). It could really open up some interesting builds if blocking, dodging, and breaking free could all be set to use magicka instead of stamina.
Or we can just have a seperate bar for rolls and such completely, call it the movement bar or something.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »Stamina have dodge roll, magika have shields thats how it works
I just wish shields weren't so trash for solo PvP. I ditched my damage shield for heavy armor a long time ago. The only magicka class you will see using shields for the most part are MagSorcs because they can stack them. And maybe some bomb blades. But for the most part magblades, mag dks, and magplars all use heavy over a damage shield. If you are fighting more than one person a shield is really weak, not only that it's too expensive. Stamina build also have access to all their magicka utility skills to give them increased survivability. But I don't think magicka builds should get a magicka based dodge roll because of the option of going vamp and using mist form. Every magicka build should be using this ability. And fix cloak
Overall I don't mind your assessment though I do have a problem with vampirism being the solution to a build. I really wish most Vampire abilities could be had elsewhere, at least in style if not artwork.
Yes it's stupid. if you want to mobile and play magic your only choices are play mag sorc or be a vampire. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the class skills buffed to give magicka classes some added mobility
You have got to be vamp on magsorc, too. Otherwise, Encase and Talon zergs will incapacitate you.
We need to be able to turn around while rooted, man. That is all.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Magicka builds do not need Stamina so breaking CC & Roll dodge aren't an issue.
Stamina builds use stamina pool for abilities so roll dodge & breaking CC drain their only resource pool.
It's balanced. I use Magicka to restore my stam(Dark Deal) and Magicka for Streak and that's all I need Magicka for. Everything else is Stamina based so breaking CC, Blocking & Roll Dodge severely depletes my Stamina pool on top of all my Stamina abilities.
Let me put it this way.
If a stamina build runs out of magicka, nothing happens.
If a magicka build runs out of stamina, it dies.
With that in mind: who is better off? The build with a huge stamina pool and a huge stamina regen, or the build that pretty much runs out of stamina after a single CC break+ dodge roll?
You make it sound like having a single resource pool is a disadvantage, but that's not true. Having great sustain of the resource that enables you to stay alive is huge. If they ever made your stamina build use magicka for his CC break, i guarantee you there would be a mob with torches and pitchforks at the ZOS headquarters within a day.Edited by Sharee on February 3, 2017 9:41AM5 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »Stamina have dodge roll, magika have shields thats how it works
I just wish shields weren't so trash for solo PvP. I ditched my damage shield for heavy armor a long time ago. The only magicka class you will see using shields for the most part are MagSorcs because they can stack them. And maybe some bomb blades. But for the most part magblades, mag dks, and magplars all use heavy over a damage shield. If you are fighting more than one person a shield is really weak, not only that it's too expensive. Stamina build also have access to all their magicka utility skills to give them increased survivability. But I don't think magicka builds should get a magicka based dodge roll because of the option of going vamp and using mist form. Every magicka build should be using this ability. And fix cloak
Overall I don't mind your assessment though I do have a problem with vampirism being the solution to a build. I really wish most Vampire abilities could be had elsewhere, at least in style if not artwork.
Yes it's stupid. if you want to mobile and play magic your only choices are play mag sorc or be a vampire. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the class skills buffed to give magicka classes some added mobility
You have got to be vamp on magsorc, too. Otherwise, Encase and Talon zergs will incapacitate you.
We need to be able to turn around while rooted, man. That is all.
Yea a lot of mag sorcs I know are starting to use mist form as well. The amout of encase spam in cyrodiil has doubled in the last month. And with magicka builds limited stamina pool mist form is the only way out. It's bad gameplay designEdited by thankyourat on February 3, 2017 9:44AM3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »Stamina have dodge roll, magika have shields thats how it works
I just wish shields weren't so trash for solo PvP. I ditched my damage shield for heavy armor a long time ago. The only magicka class you will see using shields for the most part are MagSorcs because they can stack them. And maybe some bomb blades. But for the most part magblades, mag dks, and magplars all use heavy over a damage shield. If you are fighting more than one person a shield is really weak, not only that it's too expensive. Stamina build also have access to all their magicka utility skills to give them increased survivability. But I don't think magicka builds should get a magicka based dodge roll because of the option of going vamp and using mist form. Every magicka build should be using this ability. And fix cloak
Overall I don't mind your assessment though I do have a problem with vampirism being the solution to a build. I really wish most Vampire abilities could be had elsewhere, at least in style if not artwork.
Yes it's stupid. if you want to mobile and play magic your only choices are play mag sorc or be a vampire. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the class skills buffed to give magicka classes some added mobility
You have got to be vamp on magsorc, too. Otherwise, Encase and Talon zergs will incapacitate you.
We need to be able to turn around while rooted, man. That is all.
Yea a lot of mag sorcs I know are starting to use mist form as well. The amout of encase spam in cyrodiil has doubled in the last month. And with magicka builds limited stamina pool mist form is the only way out. It's bad gameplay design
And you know what? The only skill you could give up for it is Mines, which puts you at a disadvantage against snaring melee players.
*sigh*
(>_>)0 -
theher0not✭✭✭✭✭Agreed or make something in a stam build need Magika to balance it.
You mean like my DK shields? My DK gap clooser or my DK heal/stam regen?
I literary have a total of 4 class skills that can work for stamina and 1 of them still scales of magica and 1 is an ult. (5 if we count ignite weapon that can be morphed to give weapon damage. But both momentum and throw dagger is a better choice)Edited by theher0not on February 3, 2017 12:26PM0 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How dare mage builds have a weakness
I cant believe another playstyle has an advantage that i dont have
My godskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
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Keep_Door✭✭✭✭✭Have lightning staffs give you magicka roll dodge. Like a electric teleport or phase shift.1 -
Sugaroverdose✭✭✭✭✭
In Wrobel Scrolls Online even such things possible, whatever stupid they areThestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »Frost staves will be allowing magicka-based blocking, so any chance in the future we see magicka-based roll dodges? Maybe some kind of teleport or something so that it makes sense (seeing as leaping and rolling actually would be physically taxing in real life). It could really open up some interesting builds if blocking, dodging, and breaking free could all be set to use magicka instead of stamina.
0 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »In what world would be builds going 100% magicka while being completely freely available to perform every mean of defense while disregarding resources... interesting?
In the same world that stamina builds can do all of that now
You don't play any stamina builds do you?
This. My guess is the guy got killed by a stamina build recently and it's somehow totally the fault of roll dodge being stamina-based
It's not like roll dodge is stamina builds' main defense whereas damage shields are magicka builds' defense (blocking being used by both sides, depending on spec)Edited by Valencer on February 3, 2017 12:51PM0 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »Stamina have dodge roll, magika have shields thats how it works
Bone shield is stamina, so there's an exception.
Bone shield is a joke. It doesn't countBosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP1 -
Asmael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If stamina get +200-300% damage shield size and +200% AoE potency while having most melee abilities gaining an extra +20 meters range, then yes, you can have it.PC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.0 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭no you have to physically dodge roll, so it should take stamina like it has in all TES games0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Guys, the problem is not damage mitigation, but block/snare/root counterplay. These mechanics are way too significant to make them easier on a single playstyle.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can't see that as normal cause they have to change the set bonuses and possibly cinsider resources for passives
Not saying it would be a bad thing tho but just not normal
I'd much rather a staff having some special of passive that makes you "avoid" attacks with an animation using magic like a magic shield-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If Zos introduces magicka roll dodge, I hope it will give stamina builds minor leach, making us all redguards without having to be part of Tu'wacca ugly population.0 -
LiquidSchwartz wrote: »NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Good point, I hadn't considered that argument before.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »In what world would be builds going 100% magicka while being completely freely available to perform every mean of defense while disregarding resources... interesting?
In the same world that stamina builds can do all of that now
Damn, where is that stam shield hidden. Where are the stam morphs for all the magicka only class abilities.
Tell me, if you could block and dodge with magicka, what would be stam used for on magicka character, except for never ending supply of break free resource.
//Edit:
Where is stam streak, where is stam cloak. No I am not saying every class should have equal skills, but youre basically saying your class of choice should have everything <class you dont play> has.
You're missing my point. I don't think there should be a magicka and stamina morph of every ability ever, I'm saying that stamina builds can use magicka abilities as essentially bonus abilities, as magicka can be completely ignored by a stamina class. Magicka builds cannot avoid using stamina in the way that stamina builds can avoid using magicka. Stam builds can slot zero magicka abilities, use zero magicka, and play effectively. Magicka builds have no choice but to use stamina when CC'd, when blocking an attack (except with a frost staff in the next update), or when wanting to dodge roll. I just feel like the game would benefit (and player creativity would flourish) if there was a magicka alternative to roll dodging.
Simplest way to remove that imbalance is making dodge roll and CC break draw resources from both magicka and stamina pools. So if a CC break costs 6000 stamina now, it would be changed to cost 3000 stamina and 3000 magicka. That way both stamina and magicka builds are equal in the CC game.
@Sharee and that would create an imbalance unless magika shields scaled to max health and protected for 30% of max health.
Want to make everything vanilla boring the same then say good bye to the large magika shields0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »Stamina have dodge roll, magika have shields thats how it works
Bone shield is stamina, so there's an exception.
Bone shield scales off max health. Most magic shield scale off max magicka.
I think the point is that stam builds can roll, block and shield just fine.
Magica cannot
Precisely. Magicka builds are at a disadvantage when CC'd because of the smaller stamina pool. Stam builds usually have plenty of stamina, so they can break free, roll dodge, and keep attacking. Magicka is just a bonus resource for stam builds, while stamina is still a necessity for magicka builds who don't want to be CC'd constantly, or who want to block, or who want to roll dodge.
Use purple food, immovable pots and put points in CP to reduce the cost of break free.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »In what world would be builds going 100% magicka while being completely freely available to perform every mean of defense while disregarding resources... interesting?
In the same world that stamina builds can do all of that now
Damn, where is that stam shield hidden. Where are the stam morphs for all the magicka only class abilities.
Tell me, if you could block and dodge with magicka, what would be stam used for on magicka character, except for never ending supply of break free resource.
//Edit:
Where is stam streak, where is stam cloak. No I am not saying every class should have equal skills, but youre basically saying your class of choice should have everything <class you dont play> has.
You're missing my point. I don't think there should be a magicka and stamina morph of every ability ever, I'm saying that stamina builds can use magicka abilities as essentially bonus abilities, as magicka can be completely ignored by a stamina class. Magicka builds cannot avoid using stamina in the way that stamina builds can avoid using magicka. Stam builds can slot zero magicka abilities, use zero magicka, and play effectively. Magicka builds have no choice but to use stamina when CC'd, when blocking an attack (except with a frost staff in the next update), or when wanting to dodge roll. I just feel like the game would benefit (and player creativity would flourish) if there was a magicka alternative to roll dodging.
Simplest way to remove that imbalance is making dodge roll and CC break draw resources from both magicka and stamina pools. So if a CC break costs 6000 stamina now, it would be changed to cost 3000 stamina and 3000 magicka. That way both stamina and magicka builds are equal in the CC game.
@Sharee and that would create an imbalance unless magika shields scaled to max health and protected for 30% of max health.
Want to make everything vanilla boring the same then say good bye to the large magika shields
I play a mDK whose shield already scales to max health and covers way less than 30% health bar (igneous is 3900 shield on 23000 HP bar).
*Ehm*
Sorry. Preach on.1
