VMoL Has Ruined PS4's PvE Scene

Ch4mpTW · February 2017

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO @Ch4mpTW @Doctordarkspawn
Let me attempt to clear up some misconceptions.

Let's start with the raid makeup. It works because of division of labor. If person A is better at making product A and person B is better at making product B and they stick to only making what they are best at we will have the most overall product produced. That is why people in real life have specific jobs and why in a raid heals buff and sustain while the DPS go all out DPS. Having the ability to stay alive with lower health and manage your resources with low regeneration are skills you need to have in your skill set as a raider. In the end the raid is much more efficient.

No one at all is stopping you from playing any content in the game. You are welcomed, even encouraged to play the game however you see fit. You are 100% correct that you have paid for it and have the right to experience whatever you see fit. Most people who have replied have encouraged you to still go and play the content - anyone can go in. It is true that most if not all Maw teams have some sort of requirements. Even if you are unwilling to have to go through that you can still play the content. Make your own team. It's what a lot of people in your position have done and recommended you do. If, however, by people keeping you from the game you mean people not willing to change the way they play to suit you - you may need to reexamine the situation. Aren't you yourself unhappy that you need to change the way you play to suit them? Why would the reverse be OK?

Lastly I've explained twice now why most raids have requirements. It's usually got nothing to do with elitism. Sure, there are elitists out there. It's crummy to look down on people or separate people by skinned and not skinned. I know I personally don't think any less of anyone who hasn't completed. There are lots of awesome people who have never done maw. If you are trying to join a maw team though, experience does matter. Would you want your surgeon to have operated before or be completely green? It's why most teams have training runs - to give people said experience.

Guys, please stop demonizing the raiding community. They are people. People who work hard and are often kind and dedicated. I am a raider and have many fantastic friends and guild mates who are raiders. My team is great people. Every one of them will 9 times out of 10 go out of their way to help others. All this finger pointing is just not a great thing to do.

If this doesn't get through I honestly don't know if you are willing to listen to reason. I do sencerely wish you all the best. Despite our differences I hope you manage to enjoy the game and its content as much as possible.

With all due respect I don't need you to explain the raiders makeup to me. I'm not a beginner of raiding nor am I that ignorant. I've done all but vMOL in vet mode. I've done vSO and vHRC on hard mode. All I need to do is do vAA and that would be all for me until I start doing vMOL.

Yes people are stopping me from perusing my goals of achieving vMOL. Granted my DPS isn't all that high (Unable to get 40K that is recommended for CORE rank) because I refuse to acknowledge and pursue the cheating art of Animation cancelling. If you do research on my past post you'll clearly see that I am highly against animation cancelling. I also don't have vMA weapons so that's DPS reduction right there. I simply don't have time to get irritated over not getting the weapon that I want after doing vMA. I've read enough post on this forum to give me a strong message of staying away from it until ZOS actually fixes the RNG system in this game. It's bad enough that I'm struggling to get an inferno staff from COA for my mag DK... I can't even imagine wasting 45+ mins just to get a crappy weapon at the end to then redo it all over again.

Oh I will continue to demonizing the raiding community for as long as they keep that elite mentality. Listen I've spent a fortunate upgrading my armor and weapons. I also spent a fortune of my time grinding the same trials over and over again to get the proper weapons that I need for my set. I also spent a fortune hiring crafters to craft my gear. People suggested to me that I should grab TBS gear.... I did exactly that.

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

Amen! Preach it, bro!

Doctordarkspawn · February 2017

X3ina wrote: »

Just lol @Doctordarkspawn, mate xD

Any hardcore endgame pvper knows Deltia as a casual^^ (any1 who will create endgame pve dd build with engine guardian is instantly getting this kind of "title" attached)
Any hardcore endgame pvper knows Sypher as a good dueler only(with 20 ping... ofc)(pc eu so i don't care, we have our own heroes)
Alcast is known usually for his tests, he is a good person because he saves US the time ingame so we can test other things...
(and even then, when he talks about mag dk/sorc its just LOL)

The real god is "the one and only" "RNG and FOTM"

P.S. And non of them claims that their builds are BEST

Case in point.

"Deltia is a false profit, cast him down!"

"Sypher only knows the arts of dueling, cast them down!"

It's a cult of personality and if your not reading from the same book -they- are, your lesser in their eyes. And there's about 5000 different books to read. Which one do I read, boss?

Edit: I never claimed they think their builds are the best, I know Deltia is more concerned with just helping people. But it's the cult ofpersonality. It's a cult of 'this guy said engine guardian is bad, hate him' and so on and so fourth, this is why I want -nothing- to do with the 'elite' audience.

VampiricByNature · February 2017

@raidentenshu_ESO @Ch4mpTW I'm so confused why people WANT to run in these high caliber guilds.
Those high guilds are the people who worked hard for their maelstrom drops- practiced their dps tests and worked hard to shell out the builds that become normal in the community. They are also all buddies.
But you're mad at them for not having the time to run with every mid-level player in eso? Really?
Many of the top players ARE giving the community a chance by filtering down and helping other raid groups learn and complete things. 1 helps us almost nightly in my current guild.
But just because I'm playing minor league baseball, doesn't entitle me for the MLB. Some people will move up. Some people never will. Others need to go to teeball. But you're still playing baseball.
I think in demonizing them, you're forgetting that it's a game for them too. They like to win it- they all have similar egos and personalities. It's not fun for them to have some random in their group. It's fun for them to have that set 12 man team they work well with.
If you guys know it all, start a guild and build it up. Beat down those elitists you hate so much.

DannyLV702 · February 2017

I know a good fix for this. Join me on my fishing sessions on my new path towards master baiter I mean master angler

NO MOAR STRESSSSSSS

LadyNalcarya · February 2017

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

"Casual"

The dude who has infallable aether is casual. This is geting rediculous, we need new buzzwords.

raidentenshu_ESO · February 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

I just said that I don't have experience doing vMOL so creating a guild and beating vMOL in my group is futile since I don't have the kind of experience to lead a vMOL raid. And why would anyone give up their fun for me? I'm not that bad for Molag bals mace sake. I can sustain myself just fine.

LadyNalcarya · February 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

"Casual"

The dude who has infallable aether is casual. This is geting rediculous, we need new buzzwords.

What is getting ridiculous is entitlement of some people.
Besides, IA parts are farmed in normal mode and full jewelry set can be obtained in one trial run... And once I did hel ra with a group that carried a "dd" that spammed light attacks XD
Casual player can get jewelry and IA, and many casual players I know of play more hours per week than I do... Just saying.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

"Casual"

The dude who has infallable aether is casual. This is geting rediculous, we need new buzzwords.

What is getting ridiculous is entitlement of some people.
Besides, IA parts are farmed in normal mode and full jewelry set can be obtained in one trial run... And once I did hel ra with a group that carried a "dd" that spammed light attacks XD
Casual player can get jewelry and IA, and many casual players I know of play more hours per week than I do... Just saying.

He's entitled and deserves nothing because he's not willing to minmax in the way people tell him to, ignoring the fact his jewlery is gold.

This is what a ideologue does, twisting any situation to fit their view of the world, reguardless of facts. I doubt a entitled casual could get vet jewlery, could do raid DPS capable of completing Vet Archive.

At this point, it has nothing to do with casual versus elite. It has everything to do with perception. You percieve a casual. Therefore he is a casual. This perception of casual reguardless of fact of vetting process, or seeing objection -to- the vetting process as being unfit is the problem.

He could be the best player in the world, yet if he differs from the gospel of Meta in any way, shape, or form as you percieve it, he is unfit, he is an abomination, a heretic, and must be shunned. This is the problem I will continue to criticize for as long as I am able.

raidentenshu_ESO · February 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

"Casual"

The dude who has infallable aether is casual. This is geting rediculous, we need new buzzwords.

What is getting ridiculous is entitlement of some people.
Besides, IA parts are farmed in normal mode and full jewelry set can be obtained in one trial run... And once I did hel ra with a group that carried a "dd" that spammed light attacks XD
Casual player can get jewelry and IA, and many casual players I know of play more hours per week than I do... Just saying.

So basically I'm a "casual player"? Such an insult. This is what I mean about an elite mentality that needs to be abolished in this community. This is why players are quitting the game because of this kind of behavior. No rational player would put up with such insult of other players. Elite players such as yourself think that we are inferior and not worthy, and are just casual.

I posted up my current gear. It's far from being "causal" Oh and can you call my weapons "causal? It's nearly impossible to get them (especially sharpened) with this terrible RNG system. I'm still hunting for my VO sharpened daggers/Bow for my stam characters.

LadyNalcarya · February 2017

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

I just said that I don't have experience doing vMOL so creating a guild and beating vMOL in my group is futile since I don't have the kind of experience to lead a vMOL raid. And why would anyone give up their fun for me? I'm not that bad for Molag bals mace sake. I can sustain myself just fine.

Umm so what? You need to start somewhere. Do you think that the first groups that finished vMoL knew tactics beforehand? And nowadays there are detailed guides for it.
Because for them fun means getting better scores and faster clears. Most of trial groups I know are willing to give a chance to a person that is willing to improve, but if you cant pass their dps test, how do you expect to pull your weight in vMoL? Your dps will be lower than usual anyway since you'll have to adapt to mechanics and boss fights arent static...
If this group's requirements are too high for you, you need to find another group. Simple as that.

Enslaved · February 2017

vRedMountain has ruined PS4's PvE scene

LadyNalcarya · February 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

"Casual"

The dude who has infallable aether is casual. This is geting rediculous, we need new buzzwords.

What is getting ridiculous is entitlement of some people.
Besides, IA parts are farmed in normal mode and full jewelry set can be obtained in one trial run... And once I did hel ra with a group that carried a "dd" that spammed light attacks XD
Casual player can get jewelry and IA, and many casual players I know of play more hours per week than I do... Just saying.

He's entitled and deserves nothing because he's not willing to minmax in the way people tell him to, ignoring the fact his jewlery is gold.

This is what a ideologue does, twisting any situation to fit their view of the world, reguardless of facts. I doubt a entitled casual could get vet jewlery, could do raid DPS capable of completing Vet Archive.

At this point, it has nothing to do with casual versus elite. It has everything to do with perception. You percieve a casual. Therefore he is a casual. This perception of casual reguardless of fact of vetting process, or seeing objection -to- the vetting process as being unfit is the problem.

He could be the best player in the world, yet if he differs from the gospel of Meta in any way, shape, or form as you percieve it, he is unfit, he is an abomination, a heretic, and must be shunned. This is the problem I will continue to criticize for as long as I am able.

I didnt call him casual. I said its a more casual approach, to expect more "friendly and easy going" runs (as opposed to competitive runs). I dont think its an inherently bad thing, thats purely your assumptions. Its just a matter of preferences.
I just said that this poster doesnt share the goals of that group, which means that he probably needs to find another group, with more similar mindset.
And yeah, "I want the best guild to carry me" sounds kinda entitled. Theres many guilds thta can complete vMoL and not all of them have high dps standarts. Those who do usually strive for top leaderboard spots and I see no reason to apply to them unless you also want those high spots.

DschiPeunt · February 2017

@raidentenshu_ESO
I still don't get why you think, that you somehow deserve to be taken through vMoL. You state yourself that you don't do the required DPS by those groups. Find a different group with lower expectations or - even better - start your own group and you can not-animation-cancel your way through vMoL.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

"Casual"

The dude who has infallable aether is casual. This is geting rediculous, we need new buzzwords.

What is getting ridiculous is entitlement of some people.
Besides, IA parts are farmed in normal mode and full jewelry set can be obtained in one trial run... And once I did hel ra with a group that carried a "dd" that spammed light attacks XD
Casual player can get jewelry and IA, and many casual players I know of play more hours per week than I do... Just saying.

He's entitled and deserves nothing because he's not willing to minmax in the way people tell him to, ignoring the fact his jewlery is gold.

This is what a ideologue does, twisting any situation to fit their view of the world, reguardless of facts. I doubt a entitled casual could get vet jewlery, could do raid DPS capable of completing Vet Archive.

At this point, it has nothing to do with casual versus elite. It has everything to do with perception. You percieve a casual. Therefore he is a casual. This perception of casual reguardless of fact of vetting process, or seeing objection -to- the vetting process as being unfit is the problem.

He could be the best player in the world, yet if he differs from the gospel of Meta in any way, shape, or form as you percieve it, he is unfit, he is an abomination, a heretic, and must be shunned. This is the problem I will continue to criticize for as long as I am able.

I didnt call him casual. I said its a more casual approach, to expect more "friendly and easy going" runs (as opposed to competitive runs). I dont think its an inherently bad thing, thats purely your assumptions. Its just a matter of preferences.
I just said that this poster doesnt share the goals of that group, which means that he probably needs to find another group, with more similar mindset.
And yeah, "I want the best guild to carry me" sounds kinda entitled. Theres many guilds thta can complete vMoL and not of them have high dps standarts. Those who do usually strive for top leaderboard spots and I see no reason to apply to them unless you also want those high spots.

The way you treat these people you deem casuals is enough for me to accurately base a arguement off. It has nothing to do with what you think, it has everything to do with how you -act-.

With how often you cite leaderboards, maybe those need to be removed. Maybe -that- is the source of all this madness. Maybe the everpresent chase for the highest score is what is causing so many to be so calous.

In any case, this is where I go to bed or do something productive, there is no point arguing this. You will continue to act with disdain toward people you percieve as 'not wanting it enough' to put themselves through the same dedication and study as you are willing to. Nothing more to be done about it than to leave those who wish to isolate themselves to it.

Have a wonderfull day.

Xerton · February 2017

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO @Ch4mpTW @Doctordarkspawn
Let me attempt to clear up some misconceptions.

Let's start with the raid makeup. It works because of division of labor. If person A is better at making product A and person B is better at making product B and they stick to only making what they are best at we will have the most overall product produced. That is why people in real life have specific jobs and why in a raid heals buff and sustain while the DPS go all out DPS. Having the ability to stay alive with lower health and manage your resources with low regeneration are skills you need to have in your skill set as a raider. In the end the raid is much more efficient.

No one at all is stopping you from playing any content in the game. You are welcomed, even encouraged to play the game however you see fit. You are 100% correct that you have paid for it and have the right to experience whatever you see fit. Most people who have replied have encouraged you to still go and play the content - anyone can go in. It is true that most if not all Maw teams have some sort of requirements. Even if you are unwilling to have to go through that you can still play the content. Make your own team. It's what a lot of people in your position have done and recommended you do. If, however, by people keeping you from the game you mean people not willing to change the way they play to suit you - you may need to reexamine the situation. Aren't you yourself unhappy that you need to change the way you play to suit them? Why would the reverse be OK?

Lastly I've explained twice now why most raids have requirements. It's usually got nothing to do with elitism. Sure, there are elitists out there. It's crummy to look down on people or separate people by skinned and not skinned. I know I personally don't think any less of anyone who hasn't completed. There are lots of awesome people who have never done maw. If you are trying to join a maw team though, experience does matter. Would you want your surgeon to have operated before or be completely green? It's why most teams have training runs - to give people said experience.

Guys, please stop demonizing the raiding community. They are people. People who work hard and are often kind and dedicated. I am a raider and have many fantastic friends and guild mates who are raiders. My team is great people. Every one of them will 9 times out of 10 go out of their way to help others. All this finger pointing is just not a great thing to do.

If this doesn't get through I honestly don't know if you are willing to listen to reason. I do sencerely wish you all the best. Despite our differences I hope you manage to enjoy the game and its content as much as possible.

With all due respect I don't need you to explain the raiders makeup to me. I'm not a beginner of raiding nor am I that ignorant. I've done all but vMOL in vet mode. I've done vSO and vHRC on hard mode. All I need to do is do vAA and that would be all for me until I start doing vMOL.

Yes people are stopping me from perusing my goals of achieving vMOL. Granted my DPS isn't all that high (Unable to get 40K that is recommended for CORE rank) because I refuse to acknowledge and pursue the cheating art of Animation cancelling. If you do research on my past post you'll clearly see that I am highly against animation cancelling. I also don't have vMA weapons so that's DPS reduction right there. I simply don't have time to get irritated over not getting the weapon that I want after doing vMA. I've read enough post on this forum to give me a strong message of staying away from it until ZOS actually fixes the RNG system in this game. It's bad enough that I'm struggling to get an inferno staff from COA for my mag DK... I can't even imagine wasting 45+ mins just to get a crappy weapon at the end to then redo it all over again.

Oh I will continue to demonizing the raiding community for as long as they keep that elite mentality. Listen I've spent a fortunate upgrading my armor and weapons. I also spent a fortune of my time grinding the same trials over and over again to get the proper weapons that I need for my set. I also spent a fortune hiring crafters to craft my gear. People suggested to me that I should grab TBS gear.... I did exactly that.

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

Why exactly would having any gear entitle you to get into a group?
Oh right, there is no reason!
All these groups consist of people playing this game as a hobby not a job, there is no law that grants you access once you meet some requirement like having certain gear.
These people can take whoever they want, for what ever reason they want.

I for myself got my raidspot the following way:
I contacted a GM and told him about my current progression in game and what gear i am currently wearing, which was sub par at that time as i did not have access to trials at that point nor was rngesus good to me in vMsA at that time.

What did they do?
They talked to me, how i would describe my capabilities and how much effort i was willing to put into getting better vMsA weapons in the future.
Then they took me for a DPS test, which was quite bad but considering my gear it was more than decent, so they gave me the chance of a few test runs.

And now a few months later i have my raid spot and got my full BiS gear.

Why do i tell you this? Because other than you i did not sit there complaining about them for not just taking me in for a test run without any other forms of testing, but accepted it as i would do the same.

If you can't do your job under perfect conditions, which exist only in a dps test, you definitely cant do it when under maximum pressure.
And maximum pressure is exactly what vMoL is.

Btw: Having golden IA jewelery means nothing.
Except for HM you could do AA with a PUG picked up in Craglorn.
And weapons drop in normal as well.

LadyNalcarya · February 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

"Casual"

The dude who has infallable aether is casual. This is geting rediculous, we need new buzzwords.

What is getting ridiculous is entitlement of some people.
Besides, IA parts are farmed in normal mode and full jewelry set can be obtained in one trial run... And once I did hel ra with a group that carried a "dd" that spammed light attacks XD
Casual player can get jewelry and IA, and many casual players I know of play more hours per week than I do... Just saying.

He's entitled and deserves nothing because he's not willing to minmax in the way people tell him to, ignoring the fact his jewlery is gold.

This is what a ideologue does, twisting any situation to fit their view of the world, reguardless of facts. I doubt a entitled casual could get vet jewlery, could do raid DPS capable of completing Vet Archive.

At this point, it has nothing to do with casual versus elite. It has everything to do with perception. You percieve a casual. Therefore he is a casual. This perception of casual reguardless of fact of vetting process, or seeing objection -to- the vetting process as being unfit is the problem.

He could be the best player in the world, yet if he differs from the gospel of Meta in any way, shape, or form as you percieve it, he is unfit, he is an abomination, a heretic, and must be shunned. This is the problem I will continue to criticize for as long as I am able.

I didnt call him casual. I said its a more casual approach, to expect more "friendly and easy going" runs (as opposed to competitive runs). I dont think its an inherently bad thing, thats purely your assumptions. Its just a matter of preferences.
I just said that this poster doesnt share the goals of that group, which means that he probably needs to find another group, with more similar mindset.
And yeah, "I want the best guild to carry me" sounds kinda entitled. Theres many guilds thta can complete vMoL and not of them have high dps standarts. Those who do usually strive for top leaderboard spots and I see no reason to apply to them unless you also want those high spots.

The way you treat these people you deem casuals is enough for me to accurately base a arguement off. It has nothing to do with what you think, it has everything to do with how you -act-.

With how often you cite leaderboards, maybe those need to be removed. Maybe -that- is the source of all this madness. Maybe the everpresent chase for the highest score is what is causing so many to be so calous.

*sigh*
Good job beating your imaginary enemy.
I dont treat any casual players badly, and I do not assume bad things about them. In fact, I participate in training trial runs and often help new players with crafting/advices/resouses/whatnot. I dont judge pugs for using non-meta builds either.
But you dont seem to understand the point of competitive guilds. In a pug you can just carry some low dps guy, because why not, but if this guy applies to a raid guild and wants to get a spot in core group, he will be rejected. Guild=group of likeminded people. They have the right to play as they want, just like anyone else, and they dont owe their playtime to anyone. If thats "madness" for you, you're just a hypocrite. Just answer 1 simple question: do you have a right to play how you want with people that share your interests? if yes, then why other people cant? Because they dont share your idea of fun?

Doctordarkspawn · February 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

"Casual"

The dude who has infallable aether is casual. This is geting rediculous, we need new buzzwords.

What is getting ridiculous is entitlement of some people.
Besides, IA parts are farmed in normal mode and full jewelry set can be obtained in one trial run... And once I did hel ra with a group that carried a "dd" that spammed light attacks XD
Casual player can get jewelry and IA, and many casual players I know of play more hours per week than I do... Just saying.

He's entitled and deserves nothing because he's not willing to minmax in the way people tell him to, ignoring the fact his jewlery is gold.

This is what a ideologue does, twisting any situation to fit their view of the world, reguardless of facts. I doubt a entitled casual could get vet jewlery, could do raid DPS capable of completing Vet Archive.

At this point, it has nothing to do with casual versus elite. It has everything to do with perception. You percieve a casual. Therefore he is a casual. This perception of casual reguardless of fact of vetting process, or seeing objection -to- the vetting process as being unfit is the problem.

He could be the best player in the world, yet if he differs from the gospel of Meta in any way, shape, or form as you percieve it, he is unfit, he is an abomination, a heretic, and must be shunned. This is the problem I will continue to criticize for as long as I am able.

I didnt call him casual. I said its a more casual approach, to expect more "friendly and easy going" runs (as opposed to competitive runs). I dont think its an inherently bad thing, thats purely your assumptions. Its just a matter of preferences.
I just said that this poster doesnt share the goals of that group, which means that he probably needs to find another group, with more similar mindset.
And yeah, "I want the best guild to carry me" sounds kinda entitled. Theres many guilds thta can complete vMoL and not of them have high dps standarts. Those who do usually strive for top leaderboard spots and I see no reason to apply to them unless you also want those high spots.

The way you treat these people you deem casuals is enough for me to accurately base a arguement off. It has nothing to do with what you think, it has everything to do with how you -act-.

With how often you cite leaderboards, maybe those need to be removed. Maybe -that- is the source of all this madness. Maybe the everpresent chase for the highest score is what is causing so many to be so calous.

*sigh*
Good job beating your imaginary enemy.
I dont treat any casual players badly, and I do not assume bad things about them. In fact, I participate in training trial runs and often help new players with crafting/advices/resouses/whatnot. I dont judge pugs for using non-meta builds either.
But you dont seem to understand the point of competitive guilds. In a pug you can just carry some low dps guy, because why not, but if this guy applies to a raid guild and wants to get a spot in core group, he will be rejected. Guild=group of likeminded people. They have the right to play as they want, just like anyone else, and they dont owe their playtime to anyone. If thats "madness" for you, you're just a hypocrite. Just answer 1 simple question: do you have a right to play how you want with people that share your interests? if yes, then why other people cant? Because they dont share your idea of fun?

Counterquestion: If playing how you want makes content that others cannot play how they want with, should you have that right? If your right to play how you want comes at the cost of others, do you deserve that right?

That's a question that goes both ways: If you make a truely casual game, Hardcore players have nothing to work for.

If you make a truely hardcore game, Casual players cannot enjoy themselves without dedication and study.

So who's rights are more important, yours or mine? Clearly we cannot co-exist, clearly we cannot live in harmony, the terminology, the personality clash, even the questions we ask show that. So who's enjoyment has to suffer?

Mine has suffered consistantly, for the past year. Shadows of the hist, Vmol, Maelstrom. So I ask you your own question. Why cant other people enjoy themselves? Because they dont share your idea of fun?

f047ys3v3n · February 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

VMoL has turned people into elitists and turned people into liars. Or rather brought those things to the surface, if they've already existed.

You have people comparing DPS scores constantly if you want a chance at getting in a group, and people getting hounded about what gear they're wearing, and who they know. You basically get interviewed at a chance of doing VMoL. And even then the so-called progression teams are a sham. Or so I've experienced from 4 different guilds. It's to the point now some guilds literally break people up as: "Skinned" and "Non-Skinned". The "Non-Skinned" people get treated like ****, and get placed on these strictly timed "progression teams" that really just waste time. And wipe constantly until the time is up for the progression team's "slot", and then at the end give a half-assed speech about how the progress was good. Only for moments later after the run to talk about how the "Skinned" make things so much easier, and how they actually try during those. WTF? And to make matters worse, it's not even like these folks are even applying strategies and methods that they came up with themselves. No. They got it from watching YouTube videos, and communicating with folks who play on PC. Get information from there, and replicate it until it's damn near the same. It's ridiculous.

Oh, and you best believe I'm not leaving out the corrupt side of things. Remember that exploit of Maw? Well there's tons of people with the skin, and don't even know the mechanics. But get treated like royalty whereever they go because of it. I met a CP277 earlier in Grahtwood. Asked how they got the skin, and was told that they, "Got it while the getting was good." Huh? Seriously? And they get treated better than other folks because they exploited for it? Not to mention the carrying nonsense occurring. The so-called "Number 1" end-game PvE guild calling themselves a "Council" on PS4 are selling "Carry Runs" for 2M to anyone wanting the skin. And supposedly the person being carried gets to keep all 12 gold pieces awarded at the end. The hell?

That's where we are as an end-game PvE community right now on console, and it's horrible. It's get shuffled around and bs'd to constantly, unless you know someone who'll "make time for you" to get tested relentlessly. Get thrown in half-added progression teams. Get treated like ****, spoken down to, lied to, and forgotten about for the most part. And hope you just can click-up with the "pros" to let you into a dedicated Maw group.

Why am I even talking about this, being as how I do often speak of preferring solo play and being on my own? Because I witnessed the crap first-hand for myself not too long ago, and am disgusted. And plus I've had experience of what is occurring myself. Even as a guy who solo's vet dungeons on hard mode, has flawless, has beaten all vet trials on hard mode — I'm labeled as "progression" and "subpar" due to not having a damn Maw skin. And because of the bs, I probably won't ever get it. Damn the fact I know mechanics of the place inside and out. Damn the fact I put up with DPS tests in the past from this and that guild, when I hate the stupid tests to begin with. Damn the fact I can do what most can't, and have video footage of me doing so. Damn all that. That means nothing, all because my skin isn't black with shiny blue inserts. I've been lied to by guild after guild, and people who I thought were friends. All because of something Maw related usually being behind it. I'm so sick and tired of the ****, you won't believe it.

And it's not just Maw that this crap started. No. The elitism and segregation REALLY kicked off with the Stormproof emergence. If you weren't Stormproof, you didn't mean squat. And we're ignored and treated like filth. Now it's Maw. And because of the events that happened previously, it's 10x worse than back then. Except when back then (and to this day somewhat people account shared for Stormproof clears. And paid others to get leaderboard runs. This still occurs, but not as much as it used to.

Well if it helps, not a whole lot of the PC users even wear their skin anymore. It got kinda common, I expect that is probably even more true on the EU server. I know what you mean though, elitism has definitely ramped up over the course of the games history and this has been driven by the dual factors of harder content and dps divergence due to a variety of factors that have made getting the highest dps relatively much more difficult (buff system, off timed dot's, basic attack weave a lower percent of overall dps, end of soft caps, quick bar swap, etc).

The going thing on PC was definitely the destroyer title. Not sure it is quite as hot as it was though. I'm waiting to see if some of those flawless folks who also got destroyer start reverting their titles back. I haven't seen any yet. Apparently there was a glitch folks could exploit to hide and do hard mode vMoL so lots got the title is a bit diluted now. Since I believe doing this solo got you all the achieves for the title except speed mode there are probably a lot of exploiters just waiting for the fairly common speed mode run to pop the title. Some CP 250 folks did some paid runs with guilds who knew as well and got all the titles. Sounds like you have the same thing on PS4. We don't have shareplay on PC though so there is less folks, though still some, paying for somebody else to do vMA for them so I guess that means relatively more. Shareplay in an MMO, lol.

PC also has cheat engine, which I guess you don't have, and it is alive and thriving in both the mundane public form and in some more exotic forms that seem to allow mixed class builds but don't seem to have been made public. Wonder if it's the same folks coding it? It seems the client side code is in shambles and ZOS seems to just want to pretend nothing is happening. I wonder what else can be done that we don't know about. Inventory hacking perhaps? Some guilds seem to pretty much rely on cheat engine for their dps and even talk about it in runs that they have pugs on. Have a buddy who was that pug, was surprised as hell. New meta, discussing cheat engine min maxing and optimization. Seems to be that common. DPS is hella high in quite a lot of guilds as it seems like lesser players more or less scale their dps to get close to that of the big names but not go over it so as not to raise suspicions. Who the hell is that guy. CP 530? Wow, he out does my dps, guess he practices a lot. Not bloody likely. It would be interesting to know the dps differences between guilds on the consoles and PC. The dps really is what has made vMoL much easier and more common to get done and I do think much of the increase in the average is pretty much cheat engine at work.

Anyhow, sorry about the elitism. I don't know what to tell you, that is the currency of MMO's and folks will do about anything for it. For what it is worth, it is a lot harder to get the flawless title than to do a vMoL run. I'm sure lots of folks wearing the blue and black cream their shorts when they see your title. Just be happy you don't have cheat engine. That thing is a huge thorn in my side.

BTW, what is the dps test quota for your runs? Ours was 25k unbuffed on bloodspawn. Mine is around 28.5k. That is one of the lower in my group I'm afraid. Realistically, vMoL used to be cleared with groups averaging 20k though. The check in there is actually much lower than vAA hard mode though I understand the check for vMoL hard mode is effectively much higher than vAA hard mode (I have not completed vMoL hard mode). The bigger issue in vMoL is that it is so intolerant of group member mistakes and this makes groups very intolerant of newcomers. It really is very hard to break into a vMoL group, even if you have the dps and skill and I think most of this stems from the intolerance of each fight to individual mistakes. All 3 fights have mechanics that screw the whole group up if any one individual makes a mistake and in the final two one or more of these mistakes is usually a group wipe. If you want to program content that makes groups intolerant of newcomers vMoL mechanics would be the way to do it.

LadyNalcarya · February 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

"Casual"

The dude who has infallable aether is casual. This is geting rediculous, we need new buzzwords.

What is getting ridiculous is entitlement of some people.
Besides, IA parts are farmed in normal mode and full jewelry set can be obtained in one trial run... And once I did hel ra with a group that carried a "dd" that spammed light attacks XD
Casual player can get jewelry and IA, and many casual players I know of play more hours per week than I do... Just saying.

He's entitled and deserves nothing because he's not willing to minmax in the way people tell him to, ignoring the fact his jewlery is gold.

This is what a ideologue does, twisting any situation to fit their view of the world, reguardless of facts. I doubt a entitled casual could get vet jewlery, could do raid DPS capable of completing Vet Archive.

At this point, it has nothing to do with casual versus elite. It has everything to do with perception. You percieve a casual. Therefore he is a casual. This perception of casual reguardless of fact of vetting process, or seeing objection -to- the vetting process as being unfit is the problem.

He could be the best player in the world, yet if he differs from the gospel of Meta in any way, shape, or form as you percieve it, he is unfit, he is an abomination, a heretic, and must be shunned. This is the problem I will continue to criticize for as long as I am able.

I didnt call him casual. I said its a more casual approach, to expect more "friendly and easy going" runs (as opposed to competitive runs). I dont think its an inherently bad thing, thats purely your assumptions. Its just a matter of preferences.
I just said that this poster doesnt share the goals of that group, which means that he probably needs to find another group, with more similar mindset.
And yeah, "I want the best guild to carry me" sounds kinda entitled. Theres many guilds thta can complete vMoL and not of them have high dps standarts. Those who do usually strive for top leaderboard spots and I see no reason to apply to them unless you also want those high spots.

The way you treat these people you deem casuals is enough for me to accurately base a arguement off. It has nothing to do with what you think, it has everything to do with how you -act-.

With how often you cite leaderboards, maybe those need to be removed. Maybe -that- is the source of all this madness. Maybe the everpresent chase for the highest score is what is causing so many to be so calous.

*sigh*
Good job beating your imaginary enemy.
I dont treat any casual players badly, and I do not assume bad things about them. In fact, I participate in training trial runs and often help new players with crafting/advices/resouses/whatnot. I dont judge pugs for using non-meta builds either.
But you dont seem to understand the point of competitive guilds. In a pug you can just carry some low dps guy, because why not, but if this guy applies to a raid guild and wants to get a spot in core group, he will be rejected. Guild=group of likeminded people. They have the right to play as they want, just like anyone else, and they dont owe their playtime to anyone. If thats "madness" for you, you're just a hypocrite. Just answer 1 simple question: do you have a right to play how you want with people that share your interests? if yes, then why other people cant? Because they dont share your idea of fun?

Counterquestion: If playing how you want makes content that others cannot play how they want with, should you have that right? If your right to play how you want comes at the cost of others, do you deserve that right?

That's a question that goes both ways: If you make a truely casual game, Hardcore players have nothing to work for.

If you make a truely hardcore game, Casual players cannot enjoy themselves without dedication and study.

So who's rights are more important, yours or mine?

First of all, TESO is 99.9% casual game. Its not 50/50, or even 70/30. All hardcore content = just a couple of instances that are optional and dont affect the rest of the game in any way possible. You're trying to make it look like casual playerbase cant access so much content... While actually its not the case.

Counterquestion: If playing how you want makes content that others cannot play how they want with, should you have that right? If your right to play how you want comes at the cost of others, do you deserve that right?

Actually TESO developers already have an answer for that.
All "difficult" content has normal modes specifically for casual players. And "veteran" modes for more competitive players. Its fair if you ask me, I dont complain about normal dungeons and their difficulty. They have the same story, so all players can still experience the content, even if they dont care about "builds" at all. And thats awesome.
And yes, I think that trying to claim 100% of the game for yourself is stupid and entitled. If someone said that they want 100% hardcore TESO, I'd also say that it would be unfair. Even if it would make the game mroe fun for me personally. I think that everyone has a right to have fun, and no one has a right to dictate players how they should play. Of course, that means that I cant be forced to play with people I dont want to play with.

Now answer MY question please.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

"Casual"

The dude who has infallable aether is casual. This is geting rediculous, we need new buzzwords.

What is getting ridiculous is entitlement of some people.
Besides, IA parts are farmed in normal mode and full jewelry set can be obtained in one trial run... And once I did hel ra with a group that carried a "dd" that spammed light attacks XD
Casual player can get jewelry and IA, and many casual players I know of play more hours per week than I do... Just saying.

He's entitled and deserves nothing because he's not willing to minmax in the way people tell him to, ignoring the fact his jewlery is gold.

This is what a ideologue does, twisting any situation to fit their view of the world, reguardless of facts. I doubt a entitled casual could get vet jewlery, could do raid DPS capable of completing Vet Archive.

At this point, it has nothing to do with casual versus elite. It has everything to do with perception. You percieve a casual. Therefore he is a casual. This perception of casual reguardless of fact of vetting process, or seeing objection -to- the vetting process as being unfit is the problem.

He could be the best player in the world, yet if he differs from the gospel of Meta in any way, shape, or form as you percieve it, he is unfit, he is an abomination, a heretic, and must be shunned. This is the problem I will continue to criticize for as long as I am able.

I didnt call him casual. I said its a more casual approach, to expect more "friendly and easy going" runs (as opposed to competitive runs). I dont think its an inherently bad thing, thats purely your assumptions. Its just a matter of preferences.
I just said that this poster doesnt share the goals of that group, which means that he probably needs to find another group, with more similar mindset.
And yeah, "I want the best guild to carry me" sounds kinda entitled. Theres many guilds thta can complete vMoL and not of them have high dps standarts. Those who do usually strive for top leaderboard spots and I see no reason to apply to them unless you also want those high spots.

The way you treat these people you deem casuals is enough for me to accurately base a arguement off. It has nothing to do with what you think, it has everything to do with how you -act-.

With how often you cite leaderboards, maybe those need to be removed. Maybe -that- is the source of all this madness. Maybe the everpresent chase for the highest score is what is causing so many to be so calous.

*sigh*
Good job beating your imaginary enemy.
I dont treat any casual players badly, and I do not assume bad things about them. In fact, I participate in training trial runs and often help new players with crafting/advices/resouses/whatnot. I dont judge pugs for using non-meta builds either.
But you dont seem to understand the point of competitive guilds. In a pug you can just carry some low dps guy, because why not, but if this guy applies to a raid guild and wants to get a spot in core group, he will be rejected. Guild=group of likeminded people. They have the right to play as they want, just like anyone else, and they dont owe their playtime to anyone. If thats "madness" for you, you're just a hypocrite. Just answer 1 simple question: do you have a right to play how you want with people that share your interests? if yes, then why other people cant? Because they dont share your idea of fun?

Counterquestion: If playing how you want makes content that others cannot play how they want with, should you have that right? If your right to play how you want comes at the cost of others, do you deserve that right?

That's a question that goes both ways: If you make a truely casual game, Hardcore players have nothing to work for.

If you make a truely hardcore game, Casual players cannot enjoy themselves without dedication and study.

So who's rights are more important, yours or mine?

First of all, TESO is 99.9% casual game. Its not 50/50, or even 70/30. All hardcore content = just a couple of instances that are optional and dont affect the rest of the game in any way possible. You're trying to make it look like casual playerbase cant access so much content... While actually its not the case.

Counterquestion: If playing how you want makes content that others cannot play how they want with, should you have that right? If your right to play how you want comes at the cost of others, do you deserve that right?

Actually TESO developers already have an answer for that.
All "difficult" content has normal modes specifically for casual players. And "veteran" modes for more competitive players. Its fair if you ask me, I dont complain about normal dungeons and their difficulty. They have the same story, so all players can still experience the content, even if they dont care about "builds" at all. And thats awesome.
And yes, I think that trying to claim 100% of the game for yourself is stupid and entitled. If someone said that they want 100% hardcore TESO, I'd also say that it would be unfair. Even if it would make the game mroe fun for me personally. I think that everyone has a right to have fun, and no one has a right to dictate players how they should play. Of course, that means that I cant be forced to play with people I dont want to play with.
Now answer MY question please.

"Just answer 1 simple question: do you have a right to play how you want with people that share your interests? if yes, then why other people cant? Because they dont share your idea of fun?"

I would discard my right to 'play how I want' with classes with choices that are wrong, a meta that requires someone to be wrong and right based on the content and not player skill, and the endless headaches that come with it in favor of a standard MMO experience where the players ability to succeed is their skill with a class or a role.

But in lieu of that, in lieu of a better system...Yes. You have the right to choose wrong and be forced, not choose to, forced to play normal with potentially thousands of others that are there, of wildly differing skill levels, because you dont want to sacrifice everything for the sake of success.

To get back on topic of the thread, this is what this great divide in difficulty does, and the greater design of ESO does. Those who are not willing to set aside their individuality to succeed, or those who just want to test their metal with a certain skillset, dont get to succeed in ESO's endgame. In the MMO's I've played, I've tanked some of the hardest content in games where my 'build' wasn't necessarily what mattered, but my ability to do the roll. My ability to keep aggro, position the boss, and yet here, I am punished. It's not -about- playing how you want. Because how you want is irrelevent. In order to succeed, you need to put aside what you want, and that's what I have an issue with.

To kinda get at what I mean in practical terms, I'ma take Neverwinter online around the dragons expansion. I played a guardian fighter, a tank class with a shield stance and several abilities focused on pure defense. Taking hits depleated your block meter, and you had an attack, and attacks, to refill it. Basicly, ESO's tank system distilled to it's basest componants. And I used to do this one skirmish, around a 5th of dungeon time where the end boss was -deadly- if you didn''t block it in time. If you didn't resource manage. I used to do that skirmish all the time, and I loved it. I loved winning because -I- won because I was good at my class.

I miss that feeling. Me, being good at my class and succeeding for it. I miss being able to succeed on my own merits. But to put a point to my whining...this is what I dont get, from playing on normal. Success because I am good at my job. And the elitism from the community at large makes it so that a more mild view of things, will never happen. It's allways going to be 'go big or go home' so the people who dont fit into the 'veteran' or 'normal' audience? Dont get to play how they want.

DPShiro · February 2017

This thread is now beyond hilarious!!

- Top End Game players don't want casuals and low performing players in their core team, but offer help with progression runs etc for players that are looking to beat it. Of course the spots usually goes to the most dedicated and adaptable players, it is a team effort after all.

- Casuals/low performing players also don't want casuals/low performing players in their team, and they feel entitled to get into a core guild at the top because reasons. Yet they refuse to create their own Guild with like minded people or teams up with other players of their performance.

If the casuals/low performing player don't even what to play with people of similar mindset and skills, why on earth sould other poeple have to?

There is so few challenges left in this game, Veteran Hard Mode Trials are aimed at the End Game players who want a challenge and compete with other, similar teams. And you can experience the story and trial perfectly fine in normal mode, it's the same thing just more appropriate for some people's skills.
You even get mostly the same rewards anyway, and having Gold jewelry or a visual skin won't make you a better player anyway, it's just fluff.

Xerton · February 2017

DPShiro wrote: »

This thread is now beyond hilarious!!

- Top End Game players don't want casuals and low performing players in their core team, but offer help with progression runs etc for players that are looking to beat it. Of course the spots usually goes to the most dedicated and adaptable players, it is a team effort after all.

- Casuals/low performing players also don't want casuals/low performing players in their team, and they feel entitled to get into a core guild at the top because reasons. Yet they refuse to create their own Guild with like minded people or teams up with other players of their performance.

If the casuals/low performing player don't even what to play with people of similar mindset and skills, why on earth sould other poeple have to?

Enough said...
Close the thread. We are done here

LadyNalcarya · February 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

"Casual"

The dude who has infallable aether is casual. This is geting rediculous, we need new buzzwords.

What is getting ridiculous is entitlement of some people.
Besides, IA parts are farmed in normal mode and full jewelry set can be obtained in one trial run... And once I did hel ra with a group that carried a "dd" that spammed light attacks XD
Casual player can get jewelry and IA, and many casual players I know of play more hours per week than I do... Just saying.

He's entitled and deserves nothing because he's not willing to minmax in the way people tell him to, ignoring the fact his jewlery is gold.

This is what a ideologue does, twisting any situation to fit their view of the world, reguardless of facts. I doubt a entitled casual could get vet jewlery, could do raid DPS capable of completing Vet Archive.

At this point, it has nothing to do with casual versus elite. It has everything to do with perception. You percieve a casual. Therefore he is a casual. This perception of casual reguardless of fact of vetting process, or seeing objection -to- the vetting process as being unfit is the problem.

He could be the best player in the world, yet if he differs from the gospel of Meta in any way, shape, or form as you percieve it, he is unfit, he is an abomination, a heretic, and must be shunned. This is the problem I will continue to criticize for as long as I am able.

I didnt call him casual. I said its a more casual approach, to expect more "friendly and easy going" runs (as opposed to competitive runs). I dont think its an inherently bad thing, thats purely your assumptions. Its just a matter of preferences.
I just said that this poster doesnt share the goals of that group, which means that he probably needs to find another group, with more similar mindset.
And yeah, "I want the best guild to carry me" sounds kinda entitled. Theres many guilds thta can complete vMoL and not of them have high dps standarts. Those who do usually strive for top leaderboard spots and I see no reason to apply to them unless you also want those high spots.

The way you treat these people you deem casuals is enough for me to accurately base a arguement off. It has nothing to do with what you think, it has everything to do with how you -act-.

With how often you cite leaderboards, maybe those need to be removed. Maybe -that- is the source of all this madness. Maybe the everpresent chase for the highest score is what is causing so many to be so calous.

*sigh*
Good job beating your imaginary enemy.
I dont treat any casual players badly, and I do not assume bad things about them. In fact, I participate in training trial runs and often help new players with crafting/advices/resouses/whatnot. I dont judge pugs for using non-meta builds either.
But you dont seem to understand the point of competitive guilds. In a pug you can just carry some low dps guy, because why not, but if this guy applies to a raid guild and wants to get a spot in core group, he will be rejected. Guild=group of likeminded people. They have the right to play as they want, just like anyone else, and they dont owe their playtime to anyone. If thats "madness" for you, you're just a hypocrite. Just answer 1 simple question: do you have a right to play how you want with people that share your interests? if yes, then why other people cant? Because they dont share your idea of fun?

Counterquestion: If playing how you want makes content that others cannot play how they want with, should you have that right? If your right to play how you want comes at the cost of others, do you deserve that right?

That's a question that goes both ways: If you make a truely casual game, Hardcore players have nothing to work for.

If you make a truely hardcore game, Casual players cannot enjoy themselves without dedication and study.

So who's rights are more important, yours or mine?

First of all, TESO is 99.9% casual game. Its not 50/50, or even 70/30. All hardcore content = just a couple of instances that are optional and dont affect the rest of the game in any way possible. You're trying to make it look like casual playerbase cant access so much content... While actually its not the case.

Counterquestion: If playing how you want makes content that others cannot play how they want with, should you have that right? If your right to play how you want comes at the cost of others, do you deserve that right?

Actually TESO developers already have an answer for that.
All "difficult" content has normal modes specifically for casual players. And "veteran" modes for more competitive players. Its fair if you ask me, I dont complain about normal dungeons and their difficulty. They have the same story, so all players can still experience the content, even if they dont care about "builds" at all. And thats awesome.
And yes, I think that trying to claim 100% of the game for yourself is stupid and entitled. If someone said that they want 100% hardcore TESO, I'd also say that it would be unfair. Even if it would make the game mroe fun for me personally. I think that everyone has a right to have fun, and no one has a right to dictate players how they should play. Of course, that means that I cant be forced to play with people I dont want to play with.
Now answer MY question please.

"Just answer 1 simple question: do you have a right to play how you want with people that share your interests? if yes, then why other people cant? Because they dont share your idea of fun?"

I would discard my right to 'play how I want' with classes with choices that are wrong, a meta that requires someone to be wrong and right based on the content and not player skill, and the endless headaches that come with it in favor of a standard MMO experience where the players ability to succeed is their skill with a class or a role.

But in lieu of that, in lieu of a better system...Yes. You have the right to choose wrong and be forced, not choose to, forced to play normal with potentially thousands of others that are there, of wildly differing skill levels, because you dont want to sacrifice everything for the sake of success.

To get back on topic of the thread, this is what this great divide in difficulty does, and the greater design of ESO does. Those who are not willing to set aside their individuality to succeed, or those who just want to test their metal with a certain skillset, dont get to succeed in ESO's endgame. In the MMO's I've played, I've tanked some of the hardest content in games where my 'build' wasn't necessarily what mattered, but my ability to do the roll. My ability to keep aggro, position the boss, and yet here, I am punished. It's not -about- playing how you want. Because how you want is irrelevent. In order to succeed, you need to put aside what you want, and that's what I have an issue with.

To kinda get at what I mean in practical terms, I'ma take Neverwinter online around the dragons expansion. I played a guardian fighter, a tank class with a shield stance and several abilities focused on pure defense. Taking hits depleated your block meter, and you had an attack, and attacks, to refill it. Basicly, ESO's tank system distilled to it's basest componants. And I used to do this one skirmish, around a 5th of dungeon time where the end boss was -deadly- if you didn''t block it in time. If you didn't resource manage. I used to do that skirmish all the time, and I loved it. I loved winning because -I- won because I was good at my class.

I miss that feeling. Me, being good at my class and succeeding for it. I miss being able to succeed on my own merits. But to put a point to my whining...this is what I dont get, from playing on normal. Success because I am good at my job. And the elitism from the community at large makes it so that a more mild view of things, will never happen. It's allways going to be 'go big or go home' so the people who dont fit into the 'veteran' or 'normal' audience? Dont get to play how they want.

First of all, you arent forced to do anything... Its just a game after all, not a job.

I dont understand why do you think that you're forced to do veteran dungeons? They arent "better" than normal ones, they are just more difficult, thats about it. And their only purpose is to provide some challenge (only for people who enjoy it of course). Vet-exclusive drops (monster sets etc) are only needed in vet content and pvp, so there's absolutely no need to farm them if you dont enjoy challenge.
You have a choice. If you dont like some things, then just, you know, skip them. And it doesnt even mean skipping content: since One Tamriel 100% of the content is accessible at normal difficulty.
I dont understand the issue. I'm skipping pledges I dont like all the time, I dont play vet pvp because its a cheesefest, and yeah, I play how I want. Trust me, its more fun this way.

DPShiro wrote: »

This thread is now beyond hilarious!!

- Top End Game players don't want casuals and low performing players in their core team, but offer help with progression runs etc for players that are looking to beat it. Of course the spots usually goes to the most dedicated and adaptable players, it is a team effort after all.

- Casuals/low performing players also don't want casuals/low performing players in their team, and they feel entitled to get into a core guild at the top because reasons. Yet they refuse to create their own Guild with like minded people or teams up with other players of their performance.

If the casuals/low performing player don't even what to play with people of similar mindset and skills, why on earth sould other poeple have to?

There is so few challenges left in this game, Veteran Hard Mode Trials are aimed at the End Game players who want a challenge and compete with other, similar teams. And you can experience the story and trial perfectly fine in normal mode, it's the same thing just more appropriate for some people's skills.
You even get mostly the same rewards anyway, and having Gold jewelry or a visual skin won't make you a better player anyway, it's just fluff.

Agreed! ^

MokiDono · February 2017

I think we need more elitism in this game. Also, i never understood why being called a casual triggers people? If you think that its a derogatory term, than its your own fault. Being a casual is a choice, same as being a progression raider. You made a choice, and you don't owe an explanation to anyone, and you don't have to convince anyone about anything. Just play the game.

DPShiro · February 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

You dont have to beg. I'd even say I'm 99,9% sure that begging wont get you a spot in that core group.
You pull the dps they request, then you're accepted. Or you need to find another guild with lower requirements. Its that easy.
Or you can start your own guild and beat vMoL with your group.
The problem is... You're saying "why people cant be more friendly" when its not about friendliness at all. For those people, improving scores is important and its their idea of fun. If they take you along (with your lower dps and seemingly more casual approach), then they will have to give up their fun for you. Why would they do that?

P.S. Im sorry, but I just dont understand people who deem themselves so cool that they only deserve spots in the strongest groups. There's not just casual guilds and super elite top guilds. Of course, in a "middle tier" (idk how to say that) group itll take you more time to get your title. But you always have a choice.

"Casual"

The dude who has infallable aether is casual. This is geting rediculous, we need new buzzwords.

What is getting ridiculous is entitlement of some people.
Besides, IA parts are farmed in normal mode and full jewelry set can be obtained in one trial run... And once I did hel ra with a group that carried a "dd" that spammed light attacks XD
Casual player can get jewelry and IA, and many casual players I know of play more hours per week than I do... Just saying.

He's entitled and deserves nothing because he's not willing to minmax in the way people tell him to, ignoring the fact his jewlery is gold.

This is what a ideologue does, twisting any situation to fit their view of the world, reguardless of facts. I doubt a entitled casual could get vet jewlery, could do raid DPS capable of completing Vet Archive.

At this point, it has nothing to do with casual versus elite. It has everything to do with perception. You percieve a casual. Therefore he is a casual. This perception of casual reguardless of fact of vetting process, or seeing objection -to- the vetting process as being unfit is the problem.

He could be the best player in the world, yet if he differs from the gospel of Meta in any way, shape, or form as you percieve it, he is unfit, he is an abomination, a heretic, and must be shunned. This is the problem I will continue to criticize for as long as I am able.

I didnt call him casual. I said its a more casual approach, to expect more "friendly and easy going" runs (as opposed to competitive runs). I dont think its an inherently bad thing, thats purely your assumptions. Its just a matter of preferences.
I just said that this poster doesnt share the goals of that group, which means that he probably needs to find another group, with more similar mindset.
And yeah, "I want the best guild to carry me" sounds kinda entitled. Theres many guilds thta can complete vMoL and not of them have high dps standarts. Those who do usually strive for top leaderboard spots and I see no reason to apply to them unless you also want those high spots.

The way you treat these people you deem casuals is enough for me to accurately base a arguement off. It has nothing to do with what you think, it has everything to do with how you -act-.

With how often you cite leaderboards, maybe those need to be removed. Maybe -that- is the source of all this madness. Maybe the everpresent chase for the highest score is what is causing so many to be so calous.

*sigh*
Good job beating your imaginary enemy.
I dont treat any casual players badly, and I do not assume bad things about them. In fact, I participate in training trial runs and often help new players with crafting/advices/resouses/whatnot. I dont judge pugs for using non-meta builds either.
But you dont seem to understand the point of competitive guilds. In a pug you can just carry some low dps guy, because why not, but if this guy applies to a raid guild and wants to get a spot in core group, he will be rejected. Guild=group of likeminded people. They have the right to play as they want, just like anyone else, and they dont owe their playtime to anyone. If thats "madness" for you, you're just a hypocrite. Just answer 1 simple question: do you have a right to play how you want with people that share your interests? if yes, then why other people cant? Because they dont share your idea of fun?

Counterquestion: If playing how you want makes content that others cannot play how they want with, should you have that right? If your right to play how you want comes at the cost of others, do you deserve that right?

That's a question that goes both ways: If you make a truely casual game, Hardcore players have nothing to work for.

If you make a truely hardcore game, Casual players cannot enjoy themselves without dedication and study.

So who's rights are more important, yours or mine?

First of all, TESO is 99.9% casual game. Its not 50/50, or even 70/30. All hardcore content = just a couple of instances that are optional and dont affect the rest of the game in any way possible. You're trying to make it look like casual playerbase cant access so much content... While actually its not the case.

Counterquestion: If playing how you want makes content that others cannot play how they want with, should you have that right? If your right to play how you want comes at the cost of others, do you deserve that right?

Actually TESO developers already have an answer for that.
All "difficult" content has normal modes specifically for casual players. And "veteran" modes for more competitive players. Its fair if you ask me, I dont complain about normal dungeons and their difficulty. They have the same story, so all players can still experience the content, even if they dont care about "builds" at all. And thats awesome.
And yes, I think that trying to claim 100% of the game for yourself is stupid and entitled. If someone said that they want 100% hardcore TESO, I'd also say that it would be unfair. Even if it would make the game mroe fun for me personally. I think that everyone has a right to have fun, and no one has a right to dictate players how they should play. Of course, that means that I cant be forced to play with people I dont want to play with.
Now answer MY question please.

"Just answer 1 simple question: do you have a right to play how you want with people that share your interests? if yes, then why other people cant? Because they dont share your idea of fun?"

I would discard my right to 'play how I want' with classes with choices that are wrong, a meta that requires someone to be wrong and right based on the content and not player skill, and the endless headaches that come with it in favor of a standard MMO experience where the players ability to succeed is their skill with a class or a role.

But in lieu of that, in lieu of a better system...Yes. You have the right to choose wrong and be forced, not choose to, forced to play normal with potentially thousands of others that are there, of wildly differing skill levels, because you dont want to sacrifice everything for the sake of success.

To get back on topic of the thread, this is what this great divide in difficulty does, and the greater design of ESO does. Those who are not willing to set aside their individuality to succeed, or those who just want to test their metal with a certain skillset, dont get to succeed in ESO's endgame. In the MMO's I've played, I've tanked some of the hardest content in games where my 'build' wasn't necessarily what mattered, but my ability to do the roll. My ability to keep aggro, position the boss, and yet here, I am punished. It's not -about- playing how you want. Because how you want is irrelevent. In order to succeed, you need to put aside what you want, and that's what I have an issue with.

To kinda get at what I mean in practical terms, I'ma take Neverwinter online around the dragons expansion. I played a guardian fighter, a tank class with a shield stance and several abilities focused on pure defense. Taking hits depleated your block meter, and you had an attack, and attacks, to refill it. Basicly, ESO's tank system distilled to it's basest componants. And I used to do this one skirmish, around a 5th of dungeon time where the end boss was -deadly- if you didn''t block it in time. If you didn't resource manage. I used to do that skirmish all the time, and I loved it. I loved winning because -I- won because I was good at my class.

I miss that feeling. Me, being good at my class and succeeding for it. I miss being able to succeed on my own merits. But to put a point to my whining...this is what I dont get, from playing on normal. Success because I am good at my job. And the elitism from the community at large makes it so that a more mild view of things, will never happen. It's allways going to be 'go big or go home' so the people who dont fit into the 'veteran' or 'normal' audience? Dont get to play how they want.

First of all, you arent forced to do anything... Its just a game after all, not a job.
I dont understand why do you think that you're forced to do veteran dungeons? They arent "better" than normal ones, they are just more difficult, thats about it. And their only purpose is to provide some challenge (only for people who enjoy it of course). Vet-exclusive drops (monster sets etc) are only needed in vet content and pvp, so there's absolutely no need to farm them if you dont enjoy challenge.
You have a choice. If you dont like some things, then just, you know, skip them. And it doesnt even mean skipping content: since One Tamriel 100% of the content is accessible at normal difficulty.
I dont understand the issue. I'm skipping pledges I dont like all the time, I dont play vet pvp because its a cheesefest, and yeah, I play how I want. Trust me, its more fun this way.

DPShiro wrote: »

This thread is now beyond hilarious!!

- Top End Game players don't want casuals and low performing players in their core team, but offer help with progression runs etc for players that are looking to beat it. Of course the spots usually goes to the most dedicated and adaptable players, it is a team effort after all.

- Casuals/low performing players also don't want casuals/low performing players in their team, and they feel entitled to get into a core guild at the top because reasons. Yet they refuse to create their own Guild with like minded people or teams up with other players of their performance.

If the casuals/low performing player don't even what to play with people of similar mindset and skills, why on earth sould other poeple have to?

There is so few challenges left in this game, Veteran Hard Mode Trials are aimed at the End Game players who want a challenge and compete with other, similar teams. And you can experience the story and trial perfectly fine in normal mode, it's the same thing just more appropriate for some people's skills.
You even get mostly the same rewards anyway, and having Gold jewelry or a visual skin won't make you a better player anyway, it's just fluff.

Agreed! ^

Well said, agree!

s7732425ub17_ESO · February 2017

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO @Ch4mpTW @Doctordarkspawn
Let me attempt to clear up some misconceptions.

Let's start with the raid makeup. It works because of division of labor. If person A is better at making product A and person B is better at making product B and they stick to only making what they are best at we will have the most overall product produced. That is why people in real life have specific jobs and why in a raid heals buff and sustain while the DPS go all out DPS. Having the ability to stay alive with lower health and manage your resources with low regeneration are skills you need to have in your skill set as a raider. In the end the raid is much more efficient.

No one at all is stopping you from playing any content in the game. You are welcomed, even encouraged to play the game however you see fit. You are 100% correct that you have paid for it and have the right to experience whatever you see fit. Most people who have replied have encouraged you to still go and play the content - anyone can go in. It is true that most if not all Maw teams have some sort of requirements. Even if you are unwilling to have to go through that you can still play the content. Make your own team. It's what a lot of people in your position have done and recommended you do. If, however, by people keeping you from the game you mean people not willing to change the way they play to suit you - you may need to reexamine the situation. Aren't you yourself unhappy that you need to change the way you play to suit them? Why would the reverse be OK?

Lastly I've explained twice now why most raids have requirements. It's usually got nothing to do with elitism. Sure, there are elitists out there. It's crummy to look down on people or separate people by skinned and not skinned. I know I personally don't think any less of anyone who hasn't completed. There are lots of awesome people who have never done maw. If you are trying to join a maw team though, experience does matter. Would you want your surgeon to have operated before or be completely green? It's why most teams have training runs - to give people said experience.

Guys, please stop demonizing the raiding community. They are people. People who work hard and are often kind and dedicated. I am a raider and have many fantastic friends and guild mates who are raiders. My team is great people. Every one of them will 9 times out of 10 go out of their way to help others. All this finger pointing is just not a great thing to do.

If this doesn't get through I honestly don't know if you are willing to listen to reason. I do sencerely wish you all the best. Despite our differences I hope you manage to enjoy the game and its content as much as possible.

With all due respect I don't need you to explain the raiders makeup to me. I'm not a beginner of raiding nor am I that ignorant. I've done all but vMOL in vet mode. I've done vSO and vHRC on hard mode. All I need to do is do vAA and that would be all for me until I start doing vMOL.

Yes people are stopping me from perusing my goals of achieving vMOL. Granted my DPS isn't all that high (Unable to get 40K that is recommended for CORE rank) because I refuse to acknowledge and pursue the cheating art of Animation cancelling. If you do research on my past post you'll clearly see that I am highly against animation cancelling. I also don't have vMA weapons so that's DPS reduction right there. I simply don't have time to get irritated over not getting the weapon that I want after doing vMA. I've read enough post on this forum to give me a strong message of staying away from it until ZOS actually fixes the RNG system in this game. It's bad enough that I'm struggling to get an inferno staff from COA for my mag DK... I can't even imagine wasting 45+ mins just to get a crappy weapon at the end to then redo it all over again.

Oh I will continue to demonizing the raiding community for as long as they keep that elite mentality. Listen I've spent a fortunate upgrading my armor and weapons. I also spent a fortune of my time grinding the same trials over and over again to get the proper weapons that I need for my set. I also spent a fortune hiring crafters to craft my gear. People suggested to me that I should grab TBS gear.... I did exactly that.

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

Yea, your gear is overkill for VMOL. If you actually crunch the DPS numbers needed to complete the whole thing, you only need ~25k single target per DPS member (in the heat of battle!) which is easily achievable with your gear (which is practically optimal by the way).

DPShiro · February 2017

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO @Ch4mpTW @Doctordarkspawn
Let me attempt to clear up some misconceptions.

Let's start with the raid makeup. It works because of division of labor. If person A is better at making product A and person B is better at making product B and they stick to only making what they are best at we will have the most overall product produced. That is why people in real life have specific jobs and why in a raid heals buff and sustain while the DPS go all out DPS. Having the ability to stay alive with lower health and manage your resources with low regeneration are skills you need to have in your skill set as a raider. In the end the raid is much more efficient.

No one at all is stopping you from playing any content in the game. You are welcomed, even encouraged to play the game however you see fit. You are 100% correct that you have paid for it and have the right to experience whatever you see fit. Most people who have replied have encouraged you to still go and play the content - anyone can go in. It is true that most if not all Maw teams have some sort of requirements. Even if you are unwilling to have to go through that you can still play the content. Make your own team. It's what a lot of people in your position have done and recommended you do. If, however, by people keeping you from the game you mean people not willing to change the way they play to suit you - you may need to reexamine the situation. Aren't you yourself unhappy that you need to change the way you play to suit them? Why would the reverse be OK?

Lastly I've explained twice now why most raids have requirements. It's usually got nothing to do with elitism. Sure, there are elitists out there. It's crummy to look down on people or separate people by skinned and not skinned. I know I personally don't think any less of anyone who hasn't completed. There are lots of awesome people who have never done maw. If you are trying to join a maw team though, experience does matter. Would you want your surgeon to have operated before or be completely green? It's why most teams have training runs - to give people said experience.

Guys, please stop demonizing the raiding community. They are people. People who work hard and are often kind and dedicated. I am a raider and have many fantastic friends and guild mates who are raiders. My team is great people. Every one of them will 9 times out of 10 go out of their way to help others. All this finger pointing is just not a great thing to do.

If this doesn't get through I honestly don't know if you are willing to listen to reason. I do sencerely wish you all the best. Despite our differences I hope you manage to enjoy the game and its content as much as possible.

With all due respect I don't need you to explain the raiders makeup to me. I'm not a beginner of raiding nor am I that ignorant. I've done all but vMOL in vet mode. I've done vSO and vHRC on hard mode. All I need to do is do vAA and that would be all for me until I start doing vMOL.

Yes people are stopping me from perusing my goals of achieving vMOL. Granted my DPS isn't all that high (Unable to get 40K that is recommended for CORE rank) because I refuse to acknowledge and pursue the cheating art of Animation cancelling. If you do research on my past post you'll clearly see that I am highly against animation cancelling. I also don't have vMA weapons so that's DPS reduction right there. I simply don't have time to get irritated over not getting the weapon that I want after doing vMA. I've read enough post on this forum to give me a strong message of staying away from it until ZOS actually fixes the RNG system in this game. It's bad enough that I'm struggling to get an inferno staff from COA for my mag DK... I can't even imagine wasting 45+ mins just to get a crappy weapon at the end to then redo it all over again.

Oh I will continue to demonizing the raiding community for as long as they keep that elite mentality. Listen I've spent a fortunate upgrading my armor and weapons. I also spent a fortune of my time grinding the same trials over and over again to get the proper weapons that I need for my set. I also spent a fortune hiring crafters to craft my gear. People suggested to me that I should grab TBS gear.... I did exactly that.

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

Yea, your gear is overkill for VMOL. If you actually crunch the DPS numbers needed to complete the whole thing, you only need ~25k single target per DPS member (in the heat of battle!) which is easily achievable with your gear (which is practically optimal by the way).

The gear isn't that important, it's more how well you handle your class and your skill.
My guild could probably easily do it with white, random gear. While many in this thread will struggle with all legendary BiS gear.

ThePaleItalian · February 2017

DPShiro wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO @Ch4mpTW @Doctordarkspawn
Let me attempt to clear up some misconceptions.

Let's start with the raid makeup. It works because of division of labor. If person A is better at making product A and person B is better at making product B and they stick to only making what they are best at we will have the most overall product produced. That is why people in real life have specific jobs and why in a raid heals buff and sustain while the DPS go all out DPS. Having the ability to stay alive with lower health and manage your resources with low regeneration are skills you need to have in your skill set as a raider. In the end the raid is much more efficient.

No one at all is stopping you from playing any content in the game. You are welcomed, even encouraged to play the game however you see fit. You are 100% correct that you have paid for it and have the right to experience whatever you see fit. Most people who have replied have encouraged you to still go and play the content - anyone can go in. It is true that most if not all Maw teams have some sort of requirements. Even if you are unwilling to have to go through that you can still play the content. Make your own team. It's what a lot of people in your position have done and recommended you do. If, however, by people keeping you from the game you mean people not willing to change the way they play to suit you - you may need to reexamine the situation. Aren't you yourself unhappy that you need to change the way you play to suit them? Why would the reverse be OK?

Lastly I've explained twice now why most raids have requirements. It's usually got nothing to do with elitism. Sure, there are elitists out there. It's crummy to look down on people or separate people by skinned and not skinned. I know I personally don't think any less of anyone who hasn't completed. There are lots of awesome people who have never done maw. If you are trying to join a maw team though, experience does matter. Would you want your surgeon to have operated before or be completely green? It's why most teams have training runs - to give people said experience.

Guys, please stop demonizing the raiding community. They are people. People who work hard and are often kind and dedicated. I am a raider and have many fantastic friends and guild mates who are raiders. My team is great people. Every one of them will 9 times out of 10 go out of their way to help others. All this finger pointing is just not a great thing to do.

If this doesn't get through I honestly don't know if you are willing to listen to reason. I do sencerely wish you all the best. Despite our differences I hope you manage to enjoy the game and its content as much as possible.

With all due respect I don't need you to explain the raiders makeup to me. I'm not a beginner of raiding nor am I that ignorant. I've done all but vMOL in vet mode. I've done vSO and vHRC on hard mode. All I need to do is do vAA and that would be all for me until I start doing vMOL.

Yes people are stopping me from perusing my goals of achieving vMOL. Granted my DPS isn't all that high (Unable to get 40K that is recommended for CORE rank) because I refuse to acknowledge and pursue the cheating art of Animation cancelling. If you do research on my past post you'll clearly see that I am highly against animation cancelling. I also don't have vMA weapons so that's DPS reduction right there. I simply don't have time to get irritated over not getting the weapon that I want after doing vMA. I've read enough post on this forum to give me a strong message of staying away from it until ZOS actually fixes the RNG system in this game. It's bad enough that I'm struggling to get an inferno staff from COA for my mag DK... I can't even imagine wasting 45+ mins just to get a crappy weapon at the end to then redo it all over again.

Oh I will continue to demonizing the raiding community for as long as they keep that elite mentality. Listen I've spent a fortunate upgrading my armor and weapons. I also spent a fortune of my time grinding the same trials over and over again to get the proper weapons that I need for my set. I also spent a fortune hiring crafters to craft my gear. People suggested to me that I should grab TBS gear.... I did exactly that.

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

Yea, your gear is overkill for VMOL. If you actually crunch the DPS numbers needed to complete the whole thing, you only need ~25k single target per DPS member (in the heat of battle!) which is easily achievable with your gear (which is practically optimal by the way).

The gear isn't that important, it's more how well you handle your class and your skill.
My guild could probably easily do it with white, random gear. While many in this thread will struggle with all legendary BiS gear.

Wait.... Wut?

Isn't this what the whole argument is about in this thread?

IronCrystal · February 2017

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

@raidentenshu_ESO @Ch4mpTW @Doctordarkspawn
Let me attempt to clear up some misconceptions.

Let's start with the raid makeup. It works because of division of labor. If person A is better at making product A and person B is better at making product B and they stick to only making what they are best at we will have the most overall product produced. That is why people in real life have specific jobs and why in a raid heals buff and sustain while the DPS go all out DPS. Having the ability to stay alive with lower health and manage your resources with low regeneration are skills you need to have in your skill set as a raider. In the end the raid is much more efficient.

No one at all is stopping you from playing any content in the game. You are welcomed, even encouraged to play the game however you see fit. You are 100% correct that you have paid for it and have the right to experience whatever you see fit. Most people who have replied have encouraged you to still go and play the content - anyone can go in. It is true that most if not all Maw teams have some sort of requirements. Even if you are unwilling to have to go through that you can still play the content. Make your own team. It's what a lot of people in your position have done and recommended you do. If, however, by people keeping you from the game you mean people not willing to change the way they play to suit you - you may need to reexamine the situation. Aren't you yourself unhappy that you need to change the way you play to suit them? Why would the reverse be OK?

Lastly I've explained twice now why most raids have requirements. It's usually got nothing to do with elitism. Sure, there are elitists out there. It's crummy to look down on people or separate people by skinned and not skinned. I know I personally don't think any less of anyone who hasn't completed. There are lots of awesome people who have never done maw. If you are trying to join a maw team though, experience does matter. Would you want your surgeon to have operated before or be completely green? It's why most teams have training runs - to give people said experience.

Guys, please stop demonizing the raiding community. They are people. People who work hard and are often kind and dedicated. I am a raider and have many fantastic friends and guild mates who are raiders. My team is great people. Every one of them will 9 times out of 10 go out of their way to help others. All this finger pointing is just not a great thing to do.

If this doesn't get through I honestly don't know if you are willing to listen to reason. I do sencerely wish you all the best. Despite our differences I hope you manage to enjoy the game and its content as much as possible.

With all due respect I don't need you to explain the raiders makeup to me. I'm not a beginner of raiding nor am I that ignorant. I've done all but vMOL in vet mode. I've done vSO and vHRC on hard mode. All I need to do is do vAA and that would be all for me until I start doing vMOL.

Yes people are stopping me from perusing my goals of achieving vMOL. Granted my DPS isn't all that high (Unable to get 40K that is recommended for CORE rank) because I refuse to acknowledge and pursue the cheating art of Animation cancelling. If you do research on my past post you'll clearly see that I am highly against animation cancelling. I also don't have vMA weapons so that's DPS reduction right there. I simply don't have time to get irritated over not getting the weapon that I want after doing vMA. I've read enough post on this forum to give me a strong message of staying away from it until ZOS actually fixes the RNG system in this game. It's bad enough that I'm struggling to get an inferno staff from COA for my mag DK... I can't even imagine wasting 45+ mins just to get a crappy weapon at the end to then redo it all over again.

Oh I will continue to demonizing the raiding community for as long as they keep that elite mentality. Listen I've spent a fortunate upgrading my armor and weapons. I also spent a fortune of my time grinding the same trials over and over again to get the proper weapons that I need for my set. I also spent a fortune hiring crafters to craft my gear. People suggested to me that I should grab TBS gear.... I did exactly that.

Take a look at my current set..

I have all of the qualifications to do vMOL with an exception of not having high DPS to pass the CORE (Most guilds requires you to be in to be part of the vMOL raid) DPS test.. I'm sick of tired of players like me who have to beg just do vMOL. I'm not even after the skins and the achievements. I just want the experience and the education of learning all of the mechanics in vMOL so that one day I can offer the same service to other new vMOL players.

You want me to stop demonizing the raid community? Why don't the raiding community start acting like humans and and offer players like me to have the chance to experience vMOL with other experienced players? Do your community a service by giving other players a chance, and not force them to fork over 3 or 4 million gold for a completion of the trial. Enough of this "Oh you need high CORE dps to do vMOL trials with us"

Yea, your gear is overkill for VMOL. If you actually crunch the DPS numbers needed to complete the whole thing, you only need ~25k single target per DPS member (in the heat of battle!) which is easily achievable with your gear (which is practically optimal by the way).

The gear isn't that important, it's more how well you handle your class and your skill.
My guild could probably easily do it with white, random gear. While many in this thread will struggle with all legendary BiS gear.

Wait.... Wut?

Isn't this what the whole argument is about in this thread?

The argument isn't about gear...its about dps. Vast majority of your dps is based on your skill at doing the best possible rotation, the gear accounts for no more than 15k of the dps, maybe even 10k.