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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Let's clear the air on why people are angry
-
runagate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Its just how human nature works, its easier to be hateful than lover-boy.
Watch this and tell me that ain't easier than being hateful.
https://youtu.be/zL8G5pBZ5CI?t=139 2 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to by this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
I understand where you're coming from, but.... I am a subscriber... and I have never interchanged the terms DLC and expansion... but that may be biased by the fact that I have previously played many MMO's...
The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).
No that is an article by Gamespot... not the whole gaming industry... I have been playing MMO's for a long time now and I think if you ask people with extensive MMO experience, a good majority would not interchange the terms DLC and Expansion...
They are interchangeable in the gaming industry, as a whole. You cannot assume that everyone who plays ESO is an MMO vet.
Says who? All I saw was one article...
It seems pretty common to me, among most games, smaller content drops are DLC and larger ones are expansions.
Since they are similar in nature it is easy to spin things to help validate the entitlement
Blood & Wine was a DLC for the Witcher 3. It is the same size or bigger than Morrowind.
There are no industry-wide definitions for the terms. Every developer uses their own standard.
You are correct it is not defined, and it's why the whining about not getting an expansion for free has no base. You pick out specifics to fit your argument but you don't look at the whole history of downloaded content drops. By and large things labeled as a dlc have been smaller drops. Things labeled as expansions have been bigger. In the case of mmos specifically they usually include new game systems in addition to content if they don't change the core game.
That's the case here. New content drop. New class. New game system (battlegrounds) that doesn't change the core game (you don't need to have access to battlegrounds to play)
Further, ESO plus is clear on the sales page. Access to all crown dlc for the duration of your sub.
This is not crown dlc. Bethesda has decided this is to be a major release, a boxed production. You can get the digital copy if you wish like most all modern offerings, but you aren't owed anything. ESO + still does what it advertises and mashing terms together for the sake of your argument doesn't make it any different.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]9 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
This is where a lot of you get it completly wrong, and i'm sorry, but to me is beyond idiotic.
You've subbed for the content Zenimax delivered and you were playing all this time, to think that it would entiltle you to any future devolopment, regardless of scope or whatever makes no sense at all.
They are telling you in advance how Morrowind is gonna be monetized, you can do now whatever the hell you want with your sub.
This is where you got it wrong, assuming people here use their brain.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]3 -
ChuckyPayne✭✭✭✭"This is why some people are angry."
I am not angry because of that. I'm not really angry. Maybe a little disappointed and sad. I love the game, the atmosphere is very good. I'm going to stay here, but yesterday's big announcement made everything clear.
This expansion to me it is not an expansion. This is not more than 2 dlc in one + a new class. Like Orsinium + Thief guild + a new class.
1 zone: Orsinium ~ Vvardenfell
1 new mechanics: theft ~ structured pvp
the only new thing the new class.
If they say this is an expansion then
- that is mean future dlc-s never will be bigger, richer, meaty like the old ones.
- that is mean future expansions will be the same like this. ~ 2 dlc in one.
I am very glad that the game is evolving. The things they're doing are very good, is intended to make the game better and better be. If anything they are doing it in a safe atmosphere, and very good-quality (AAA)
The only problem with it is that they do it very slowly and is in the very small portions.
Do not get me wrong I am happy that I can try other characters, I have more alt characters. I have more because, I have nothing to do after a time, until the next dlc. I want to stay, so, I'm starting a new character. Yes it is cool, I like it. But I don't like the reason! "Nothing to do after a time until next dlc"
I'd be really happy with it when so many things to arrive at once, without touching the end until the next dlc arrive. It will not happen. We will get expansion this summer, and then remains only 2 small dlc for this year. Not too good prospects.3 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Its just how human nature works, its easier to be hateful than lover-boy.
Watch this and tell me that ain't easier than being hateful.https://youtu.be/zL8G5pBZ5CI?t=139
I love that song. Now I will be dreaming about lover boy...Edited by vyndral13preub18_ESO on February 1, 2017 6:19AM0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to by this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
I understand where you're coming from, but.... I am a subscriber... and I have never interchanged the terms DLC and expansion... but that may be biased by the fact that I have previously played many MMO's...
The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).
No that is an article by Gamespot... not the whole gaming industry... I have been playing MMO's for a long time now and I think if you ask people with extensive MMO experience, a good majority would not interchange the terms DLC and Expansion...
They are interchangeable in the gaming industry, as a whole. You cannot assume that everyone who plays ESO is an MMO vet.
Says who? All I saw was one article...
It seems pretty common to me, among most games, smaller content drops are DLC and larger ones are expansions.
Since they are similar in nature it is easy to spin things to help validate the entitlement
Blood & Wine was a DLC for the Witcher 3. It is the same size or bigger than Morrowind.
There are no industry-wide definitions for the terms. Every developer uses their own standard.
You are correct it is not defined, and it's why the whining about not getting an expansion for free has no base. You pick out specifics to fit your argument but you don't look at the whole history of downloaded content drops. By and large things labeled as a dlc have been smaller drops. Things labeled as expansions have been bigger. In the case of mmos specifically they usually include new game systems in addition to content if they don't change the core game.
That's the case here. New content drop. New class. New game system (battlegrounds) that doesn't change the core game (you don't need to have access to battlegrounds to play)
Further, ESO plus is clear on the sales page. Access to all crown dlc for the duration of your sub.
This is not crown dlc. Bethesda has decided this is to be a major release, a boxed production. You can get the digital copy if you wish like most all modern offerings, but you aren't owed anything. ESO + still does what it advertises and mashing terms together for the sake of your argument doesn't make it any different.
But you differentiating the two terms is the exact same thing.
If ZOS had an intention to release expansions as separate from DLCs in the future, why not state those intentions from the get-go? Becuase they would obviously affect subscriber numbers.
ZOS did nothing legally wrong here. But that doesn't mean what they did was ethical either.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 1, 2017 6:20AM14 -
BlueViolet✭✭✭✭✭I find it all a bit off really.
First they got around their "we will never add locked RNG boxes to ESO" b/s, by adding unlocked con crate lockboxes to the store.
Now they're getting around the "get all future content for free!" b/s line for subscriptions, by calling this new DLc an "expansion".
It isn't the price that bothers me. Its the evasive deceptiveness. It's really becoming harder and harder to put any faith or trust in them.EU / NA / PC19 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its just how human nature works, its easier to be hateful than lover-boy.
Watch this and tell me that ain't easier than being hateful.https://youtu.be/zL8G5pBZ5CI?t=139
This is much better...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqW_KeE6ZOs 0 -
EvilCroc✭✭✭✭✭
✭I pay for ESO+ and I do not feel betrayed. I have my crafting bag for that money.
I had bad feeling when recognized, that I will not get loyal subscription awards (pets, mount) because I've started to subscribe too lately.
But this expansion doesn't make me feel bad. After all, I've bought 3 packs of 15 crown crates atm.
0 -
NovaShadow✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to by this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
I understand where you're coming from, but.... I am a subscriber... and I have never interchanged the terms DLC and expansion... but that may be biased by the fact that I have previously played many MMO's...
The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).
No that is an article by Gamespot... not the whole gaming industry... I have been playing MMO's for a long time now and I think if you ask people with extensive MMO experience, a good majority would not interchange the terms DLC and Expansion...
They are interchangeable in the gaming industry, as a whole. You cannot assume that everyone who plays ESO is an MMO vet.
Says who? All I saw was one article...
It seems pretty common to me, among most games, smaller content drops are DLC and larger ones are expansions.
Since they are similar in nature it is easy to spin things to help validate the entitlement
Blood & Wine was a DLC for the Witcher 3. It is the same size or bigger than Morrowind.
There are no industry-wide definitions for the terms. Every developer uses their own standard.
You are correct it is not defined, and it's why the whining about not getting an expansion for free has no base. You pick out specifics to fit your argument but you don't look at the whole history of downloaded content drops. By and large things labeled as a dlc have been smaller drops. Things labeled as expansions have been bigger. In the case of mmos specifically they usually include new game systems in addition to content if they don't change the core game.
That's the case here. New content drop. New class. New game system (battlegrounds) that doesn't change the core game (you don't need to have access to battlegrounds to play)
Further, ESO plus is clear on the sales page. Access to all crown dlc for the duration of your sub.
This is not crown dlc. Bethesda has decided this is to be a major release, a boxed production. You can get the digital copy if you wish like most all modern offerings, but you aren't owed anything. ESO + still does what it advertises and mashing terms together for the sake of your argument doesn't make it any different.
I bolded your statement because it needs to be said that the wording was changed to reflect what you now see. It did not say that before.
I'm personally pissed because we were told one thing: ALL future content would be accessible with a current sub.
Now it's been changed to reflect what is now on the ESO + sales page.
That is where my personal anger is coming from, that lie/deception, it feels like a betrayal. I was led to believe one thing, now all of a sudden it's something else.
I don't care about the money, it's actually $60 for me. It's about the fact that I feel lied to and betrayed.PC NA - EPHS18 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NovaShadow wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to by this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
I understand where you're coming from, but.... I am a subscriber... and I have never interchanged the terms DLC and expansion... but that may be biased by the fact that I have previously played many MMO's...
The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).
No that is an article by Gamespot... not the whole gaming industry... I have been playing MMO's for a long time now and I think if you ask people with extensive MMO experience, a good majority would not interchange the terms DLC and Expansion...
They are interchangeable in the gaming industry, as a whole. You cannot assume that everyone who plays ESO is an MMO vet.
Says who? All I saw was one article...
It seems pretty common to me, among most games, smaller content drops are DLC and larger ones are expansions.
Since they are similar in nature it is easy to spin things to help validate the entitlement
Blood & Wine was a DLC for the Witcher 3. It is the same size or bigger than Morrowind.
There are no industry-wide definitions for the terms. Every developer uses their own standard.
You are correct it is not defined, and it's why the whining about not getting an expansion for free has no base. You pick out specifics to fit your argument but you don't look at the whole history of downloaded content drops. By and large things labeled as a dlc have been smaller drops. Things labeled as expansions have been bigger. In the case of mmos specifically they usually include new game systems in addition to content if they don't change the core game.
That's the case here. New content drop. New class. New game system (battlegrounds) that doesn't change the core game (you don't need to have access to battlegrounds to play)
Further, ESO plus is clear on the sales page. Access to all crown dlc for the duration of your sub.
This is not crown dlc. Bethesda has decided this is to be a major release, a boxed production. You can get the digital copy if you wish like most all modern offerings, but you aren't owed anything. ESO + still does what it advertises and mashing terms together for the sake of your argument doesn't make it any different.
I bolded your statement because it needs to be said that the wording was changed to reflect what you now see. It did not say that before.
I'm personally pissed because we were told one thing: ALL future content would be accessible with a current sub.
Now it's been changed to reflect what is now on the ESO + sales page.
That is where my personal anger is coming from, that lie/deception, it feels like a betrayal. I was led to believe one thing, now all of a sudden it's something else.
I don't care about the money, it's actually $60 for me. It's about the fact that I feel lied to and betrayed.
Had they not expected this backlash, they would still have that image up there and defend their application of the term "downloadable content". The problem is that it's impossible to define unless defined from the get-go.2 -
BlueViolet✭✭✭✭✭NovaShadow wrote: »
I bolded your statement because it needs to be said that the wording was changed to reflect what you now see. It did not say that before.
I'm personally pissed because we were told one thing: ALL future content would be accessible with a current sub.
[pic snip]
Now it's been changed to reflect what is now on the ESO + sales page.
That is where my personal anger is coming from, that lie/deception, it feels like a betrayal. I was led to believe one thing, now all of a sudden it's something else.
I don't care about the money, it's actually $60 for me. It's about the fact that I feel lied to and betrayed.
I didn't know they had changed that.
Wow... that's pretty bad in my opinion.
I am all for supporting the game, I sub and buy crowns as well so the price isn't an issue. It IS the deception... and from here forward, it makes me feel kind of unhappy and in two minds to be supporting such deceptions.
EU / NA / PC5 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭BlueViolet wrote: »I find it all a bit off really.
First they got around their "we will never add locked RNG boxes to ESO" b/s, by adding unlocked con crate lockboxes to the store.
Now they're getting around the "get all future content for free!" b/s line for subscriptions, by calling this new DLc an "expansion".
It isn't the price that bothers me. Its the evasive deceptiveness. It's really becoming harder and harder to put any faith or trust in them.
Markets are volatile environments, most often than not you have to adapt or suffer harsh consecuences.
And in all truth, hanging on one line phrases, like those you have mention, as if they were legally binding, when in reallity what it bothers you is that you find this particular changes inconvenient makes you look evasive and deceptive.NovaShadow wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to by this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
I understand where you're coming from, but.... I am a subscriber... and I have never interchanged the terms DLC and expansion... but that may be biased by the fact that I have previously played many MMO's...
The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).
No that is an article by Gamespot... not the whole gaming industry... I have been playing MMO's for a long time now and I think if you ask people with extensive MMO experience, a good majority would not interchange the terms DLC and Expansion...
They are interchangeable in the gaming industry, as a whole. You cannot assume that everyone who plays ESO is an MMO vet.
Says who? All I saw was one article...
It seems pretty common to me, among most games, smaller content drops are DLC and larger ones are expansions.
Since they are similar in nature it is easy to spin things to help validate the entitlement
Blood & Wine was a DLC for the Witcher 3. It is the same size or bigger than Morrowind.
There are no industry-wide definitions for the terms. Every developer uses their own standard.
You are correct it is not defined, and it's why the whining about not getting an expansion for free has no base. You pick out specifics to fit your argument but you don't look at the whole history of downloaded content drops. By and large things labeled as a dlc have been smaller drops. Things labeled as expansions have been bigger. In the case of mmos specifically they usually include new game systems in addition to content if they don't change the core game.
That's the case here. New content drop. New class. New game system (battlegrounds) that doesn't change the core game (you don't need to have access to battlegrounds to play)
Further, ESO plus is clear on the sales page. Access to all crown dlc for the duration of your sub.
This is not crown dlc. Bethesda has decided this is to be a major release, a boxed production. You can get the digital copy if you wish like most all modern offerings, but you aren't owed anything. ESO + still does what it advertises and mashing terms together for the sake of your argument doesn't make it any different.
I bolded your statement because it needs to be said that the wording was changed to reflect what you now see. It did not say that before.
I'm personally pissed because we were told one thing: ALL future content would be accessible with a current sub.
Now it's been changed to reflect what is now on the ESO + sales page.
That is where my personal anger is coming from, that lie/deception, it feels like a betrayal. I was led to believe one thing, now all of a sudden it's something else.
I don't care about the money, it's actually $60 for me. It's about the fact that I feel lied to and betrayed.
Uhm, ok am i missing something or it only says acceses to all downloadable content? That seems to me to be refering to be all current content, why you think it would grant you acces all future one?When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Speaking of deception, here is a Twitter post claiming we would recieve quarterly DLC updates:
Whether you consider One Tamriel and Homestead DLCs or not is up for debate (since the first did not introduce any new content and the second one only uses recycled assets and features no explorable zone). Regardless, the standard set before OT was a new "explorable zone" in every DLC. That was not delivered. Again, ZOS did not do anything legally wrong, but you can't fault players for feeling cheated.15 -
NovaShadow✭✭✭✭✭BlueViolet wrote: »I find it all a bit off really.
First they got around their "we will never add locked RNG boxes to ESO" b/s, by adding unlocked con crate lockboxes to the store.
Now they're getting around the "get all future content for free!" b/s line for subscriptions, by calling this new DLc an "expansion".
It isn't the price that bothers me. Its the evasive deceptiveness. It's really becoming harder and harder to put any faith or trust in them.
Markets are volatile environments, most often than not you have to adapt or suffer harsh consecuences.
And in all truth, hanging on one line phrases, like those you have mention, as if they were legally binding, when in reallity what it bothers you is that you find this particular changes inconvenient makes you look evasive and deceptive.NovaShadow wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to by this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
I understand where you're coming from, but.... I am a subscriber... and I have never interchanged the terms DLC and expansion... but that may be biased by the fact that I have previously played many MMO's...
The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).
No that is an article by Gamespot... not the whole gaming industry... I have been playing MMO's for a long time now and I think if you ask people with extensive MMO experience, a good majority would not interchange the terms DLC and Expansion...
They are interchangeable in the gaming industry, as a whole. You cannot assume that everyone who plays ESO is an MMO vet.
Says who? All I saw was one article...
It seems pretty common to me, among most games, smaller content drops are DLC and larger ones are expansions.
Since they are similar in nature it is easy to spin things to help validate the entitlement
Blood & Wine was a DLC for the Witcher 3. It is the same size or bigger than Morrowind.
There are no industry-wide definitions for the terms. Every developer uses their own standard.
You are correct it is not defined, and it's why the whining about not getting an expansion for free has no base. You pick out specifics to fit your argument but you don't look at the whole history of downloaded content drops. By and large things labeled as a dlc have been smaller drops. Things labeled as expansions have been bigger. In the case of mmos specifically they usually include new game systems in addition to content if they don't change the core game.
That's the case here. New content drop. New class. New game system (battlegrounds) that doesn't change the core game (you don't need to have access to battlegrounds to play)
Further, ESO plus is clear on the sales page. Access to all crown dlc for the duration of your sub.
This is not crown dlc. Bethesda has decided this is to be a major release, a boxed production. You can get the digital copy if you wish like most all modern offerings, but you aren't owed anything. ESO + still does what it advertises and mashing terms together for the sake of your argument doesn't make it any different.
I bolded your statement because it needs to be said that the wording was changed to reflect what you now see. It did not say that before.
I'm personally pissed because we were told one thing: ALL future content would be accessible with a current sub.
Now it's been changed to reflect what is now on the ESO + sales page.
That is where my personal anger is coming from, that lie/deception, it feels like a betrayal. I was led to believe one thing, now all of a sudden it's something else.
I don't care about the money, it's actually $60 for me. It's about the fact that I feel lied to and betrayed.
Uhm, ok am i missing something or it only says acceses to all downloadable content? That seems to me to be refering to be all current content, why you think it would grant you acces all future one?
That is how ESO + was advertised for Tamriel Unlimited. Since March 17th, 2015 it has been the case. Now it's changed out of no where. From March 17th, 2015 till now 'future' downloadable content was 'free' as such for those who subscribed.PC NA - EPHS1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BlueViolet wrote: »I find it all a bit off really.
First they got around their "we will never add locked RNG boxes to ESO" b/s, by adding unlocked con crate lockboxes to the store.
Now they're getting around the "get all future content for free!" b/s line for subscriptions, by calling this new DLc an "expansion".
It isn't the price that bothers me. Its the evasive deceptiveness. It's really becoming harder and harder to put any faith or trust in them.
Markets are volatile environments, most often than not you have to adapt or suffer harsh consecuences.
And in all truth, hanging on one line phrases, like those you have mention, as if they were legally binding, when in reallity what it bothers you is that you find this particular changes inconvenient makes you look evasive and deceptive.
Markets are volatile. But that doesn't mean companies can't be more transparent about their dealings.
Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 1, 2017 6:48AM7 -
BlueViolet✭✭✭✭✭
And in all truth, hanging on one line phrases, like those you have mention, as if they were legally binding, when in reallity what it bothers you is that you find this particular changes inconvenient makes you look evasive and deceptive.
Yes... I'm evasive and deceptive because I take exception to their backtracking. /eyeroll.
I'm so glad to know that you can read my mind, and tell me, in reality, what is really bothering me.
Thanks. I can put off going to a psychologist if I ever need to now, considering you know me and what I am thinking far better than I know myself.
EU / NA / PC4 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Good post OP . That covers the gist of it . It doesn't mean players are not excited for Marrowind . It does not mean people don't like expansions . It's simply as the OP stated . Changes took place with subscribers , the people that pay to play and not all of them are happy with the change . Some are angry.
I'm indifferent and just cancelled my sub and went back to free play . Voting with my wallet is how I handle it . That does not mean ai don't love the game or the community anymore lol . It means I don't like the business change . Happy to save the money and wait for a bargain .8 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭NovaShadow wrote: »BlueViolet wrote: »I find it all a bit off really.
First they got around their "we will never add locked RNG boxes to ESO" b/s, by adding unlocked con crate lockboxes to the store.
Now they're getting around the "get all future content for free!" b/s line for subscriptions, by calling this new DLc an "expansion".
It isn't the price that bothers me. Its the evasive deceptiveness. It's really becoming harder and harder to put any faith or trust in them.
Markets are volatile environments, most often than not you have to adapt or suffer harsh consecuences.
And in all truth, hanging on one line phrases, like those you have mention, as if they were legally binding, when in reallity what it bothers you is that you find this particular changes inconvenient makes you look evasive and deceptive.NovaShadow wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to by this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
I understand where you're coming from, but.... I am a subscriber... and I have never interchanged the terms DLC and expansion... but that may be biased by the fact that I have previously played many MMO's...
The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).
No that is an article by Gamespot... not the whole gaming industry... I have been playing MMO's for a long time now and I think if you ask people with extensive MMO experience, a good majority would not interchange the terms DLC and Expansion...
They are interchangeable in the gaming industry, as a whole. You cannot assume that everyone who plays ESO is an MMO vet.
Says who? All I saw was one article...
It seems pretty common to me, among most games, smaller content drops are DLC and larger ones are expansions.
Since they are similar in nature it is easy to spin things to help validate the entitlement
Blood & Wine was a DLC for the Witcher 3. It is the same size or bigger than Morrowind.
There are no industry-wide definitions for the terms. Every developer uses their own standard.
You are correct it is not defined, and it's why the whining about not getting an expansion for free has no base. You pick out specifics to fit your argument but you don't look at the whole history of downloaded content drops. By and large things labeled as a dlc have been smaller drops. Things labeled as expansions have been bigger. In the case of mmos specifically they usually include new game systems in addition to content if they don't change the core game.
That's the case here. New content drop. New class. New game system (battlegrounds) that doesn't change the core game (you don't need to have access to battlegrounds to play)
Further, ESO plus is clear on the sales page. Access to all crown dlc for the duration of your sub.
This is not crown dlc. Bethesda has decided this is to be a major release, a boxed production. You can get the digital copy if you wish like most all modern offerings, but you aren't owed anything. ESO + still does what it advertises and mashing terms together for the sake of your argument doesn't make it any different.
I bolded your statement because it needs to be said that the wording was changed to reflect what you now see. It did not say that before.
I'm personally pissed because we were told one thing: ALL future content would be accessible with a current sub.
Now it's been changed to reflect what is now on the ESO + sales page.
That is where my personal anger is coming from, that lie/deception, it feels like a betrayal. I was led to believe one thing, now all of a sudden it's something else.
I don't care about the money, it's actually $60 for me. It's about the fact that I feel lied to and betrayed.
Uhm, ok am i missing something or it only says acceses to all downloadable content? That seems to me to be refering to be all current content, why you think it would grant you acces all future one?
That is how ESO + was advertised for Tamriel Unlimited. Since March 17th, 2015 it has been the case. Now it's changed out of no where. From March 17th, 2015 till now 'future' downloadable content was 'free' as such for those who subscribed.
Out of nowhere? They are giving you 5 months in advance, and they havent fault on their promise either, if thats what you care so much about, since you had access to all current downloadable content, meaning you got the value for what you were paying for.
To think that this agreement cant be changed on the future because that one simple line is just nonsense, and trying to leverage on it for your own personal convenience makes you look shaddy and deceptive.Edited by SanTii.92 on February 1, 2017 6:57AMWhen the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Pixel_Zealot✭✭✭✭Wait, I have to pay for the expansion? Well that's a cancelled sub.Dragonborn, huh? Was it your ma or your pa that was the dragon?4 -
MissBizz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm a sub, I don't feel out to dry. I've been saying for a while to my friends in ESO that it needs a proper large paid expansion and I'm happy they are releasing one.
Me too.Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord1 -
Pops_ND_Irish✭✭✭✭✭Pixel_Zealot wrote: »Wait, I have to pay for the expansion? Well that's a cancelled sub.
Stop by this thread before you go:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3745551/#Comment_3745551
1 -
NovaShadow✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Speaking of deception, here is a Twitter post claiming we would recieve quarterly DLC updates:
Whether you consider One Tamriel and Homestead DLCs or not is up for debate (since the first did not introduce any new content and the second one only uses recycled assets and features no explorable zone). Regardless, the standard set before OT was a new "explorable zone" in every DLC. That was not delivered. Again, ZOS did not do anything legally wrong, but you can't fault players for feeling cheated.
There is nothing to debate whether or not 1t and homestead are or nor dlcs, theobviously are.NovaShadow wrote: »BlueViolet wrote: »I find it all a bit off really.
First they got around their "we will never add locked RNG boxes to ESO" b/s, by adding unlocked con crate lockboxes to the store.
Now they're getting around the "get all future content for free!" b/s line for subscriptions, by calling this new DLc an "expansion".
It isn't the price that bothers me. Its the evasive deceptiveness. It's really becoming harder and harder to put any faith or trust in them.
Markets are volatile environments, most often than not you have to adapt or suffer harsh consecuences.
And in all truth, hanging on one line phrases, like those you have mention, as if they were legally binding, when in reallity what it bothers you is that you find this particular changes inconvenient makes you look evasive and deceptive.NovaShadow wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to by this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
I understand where you're coming from, but.... I am a subscriber... and I have never interchanged the terms DLC and expansion... but that may be biased by the fact that I have previously played many MMO's...
The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).
No that is an article by Gamespot... not the whole gaming industry... I have been playing MMO's for a long time now and I think if you ask people with extensive MMO experience, a good majority would not interchange the terms DLC and Expansion...
They are interchangeable in the gaming industry, as a whole. You cannot assume that everyone who plays ESO is an MMO vet.
Says who? All I saw was one article...
It seems pretty common to me, among most games, smaller content drops are DLC and larger ones are expansions.
Since they are similar in nature it is easy to spin things to help validate the entitlement
Blood & Wine was a DLC for the Witcher 3. It is the same size or bigger than Morrowind.
There are no industry-wide definitions for the terms. Every developer uses their own standard.
You are correct it is not defined, and it's why the whining about not getting an expansion for free has no base. You pick out specifics to fit your argument but you don't look at the whole history of downloaded content drops. By and large things labeled as a dlc have been smaller drops. Things labeled as expansions have been bigger. In the case of mmos specifically they usually include new game systems in addition to content if they don't change the core game.
That's the case here. New content drop. New class. New game system (battlegrounds) that doesn't change the core game (you don't need to have access to battlegrounds to play)
Further, ESO plus is clear on the sales page. Access to all crown dlc for the duration of your sub.
This is not crown dlc. Bethesda has decided this is to be a major release, a boxed production. You can get the digital copy if you wish like most all modern offerings, but you aren't owed anything. ESO + still does what it advertises and mashing terms together for the sake of your argument doesn't make it any different.
I bolded your statement because it needs to be said that the wording was changed to reflect what you now see. It did not say that before.
I'm personally pissed because we were told one thing: ALL future content would be accessible with a current sub.
Now it's been changed to reflect what is now on the ESO + sales page.
That is where my personal anger is coming from, that lie/deception, it feels like a betrayal. I was led to believe one thing, now all of a sudden it's something else.
I don't care about the money, it's actually $60 for me. It's about the fact that I feel lied to and betrayed.
Uhm, ok am i missing something or it only says acceses to all downloadable content? That seems to me to be refering to be all current content, why you think it would grant you acces all future one?
That is how ESO + was advertised for Tamriel Unlimited. Since March 17th, 2015 it has been the case. Now it's changed out of no where. From March 17th, 2015 till now 'future' downloadable content was 'free' as such for those who subscribed.
Out of nowhere? They are giving you 5 months in advance, and they havent fault on their promise either, if thats what you care so much about, since you had access to all current downloadable content, meaning you got the value for what you were paying for.
To think that this agreement cant be changed on the future because that one simple line is just nonsense, and trying to leverage on it for your own personal convenience makes you look shaddy and deceptive.
Around the 20 minute mark, DLC's & ESO + are actually mentioned/discussed and what to expect when you have ESO +.
So it's not just 1 line, it was advertised by the Dev's even in a stream what you should expect in the future. Plain and simple. It was advertised as such.
Clockwork was included with the DLC's alongside one's we've yet to hear about.
Calling me shady/deceptive because I pointed out the facts you seem oblivious to only makes you look as such, not me.PC NA - EPHS11 -
UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This is more or less how I feel about it too (personally I'm satisfied to keep getting smaller DLCs, but a large paid expansion is much more likely to bring new blood and returning players to the game).I'm a sub, I don't feel out to dry. I've been saying for a while to my friends in ESO that it needs a proper large paid expansion and I'm happy they are releasing one.
Mind you, I understand why a portion of the subscribers are upset about it, and they have some valid points. I can understand it and respect their opinion on the matter without feeling that way myself though.
Of course, in another thread I've been accused of stomping my feet and holding my breath trying to get ZOS to release Morrowind for free, despite the fact that I'm not trying to get them to do any such thing (and I'm actively trying to find where I can preorder the physical collectors edition from in Canada - as in I'm trying to figure out how to get ZOS to take over $100 from me), so I also know exactly why OP started this thread. To clear up some of the BS strawman arguments being spewed by certain unscrupulous individuals on the forums...
Someone stole my sweetrollCaius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD)
J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD)Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC)
Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP)
Manut Redguard Temp (AD)
Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP)
Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD)Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP)
Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC)
Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP)
Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC)
Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp5 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭BlueViolet wrote: »
And in all truth, hanging on one line phrases, like those you have mention, as if they were legally binding, when in reallity what it bothers you is that you find this particular changes inconvenient makes you look evasive and deceptive.
Yes... I'm evasive and deceptive because I take exception to their backtracking. /eyeroll.
I'm so glad to know that you can read my mind, and tell me, in reality, what is really bothering me.
Thanks. I can put off going to a psychologist if I ever need to now, considering you know me and what I am thinking far better than I know myself.
So you are saying that what it bothers you is that they are backtracking their one line statement made about two years ago and not this particular change by itself? Ok then, appologize.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This is more or less how I feel about it too (personally I'm satisfied to keep getting smaller DLCs, but a large paid expansion is much more likely to bring new blood and returning players to the game).I'm a sub, I don't feel out to dry. I've been saying for a while to my friends in ESO that it needs a proper large paid expansion and I'm happy they are releasing one.
Mind you, I understand why a portion of the subscribers are upset about it, and they have some valid points. I can understand it and respect their opinion on the matter without feeling that way myself though.
Of course, in another thread I've been accused of stomping my feet and holding my breath trying to get ZOS to release Morrowind for free, despite the fact that I'm not trying to get them to do any such thing (and I'm actively trying to find where I can preorder the physical collectors edition from in Canada - as in I'm trying to figure out how to get ZOS to take over $100 from me), so I also know exactly why OP started this thread. To clear up some of the BS strawman arguments being spewed by certain unscrupulous individuals on the forums...
You were very cool in that thread UrQuan and I respect everyone that thinks this billing is valid . If you guys see eye to eye with ZoS and think it is a bargain great . I never expect anyone to jump on a crusade together against lol "corporate evil" and the forces of Molag Bank ... I just would like people to understand that I don't personally like the effect on my subscription and respect that I would like to give my feedback why without being drilled for not being on the hype wagon or mocked as a buzzkill . Like they work for ZoS and I just toilet papered the lobby . It's silly and a bit disrespectful especially when some of these people discouraged are helpful players in their communities .0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NovaShadow wrote: »BlueViolet wrote: »I find it all a bit off really.
First they got around their "we will never add locked RNG boxes to ESO" b/s, by adding unlocked con crate lockboxes to the store.
Now they're getting around the "get all future content for free!" b/s line for subscriptions, by calling this new DLc an "expansion".
It isn't the price that bothers me. Its the evasive deceptiveness. It's really becoming harder and harder to put any faith or trust in them.
Markets are volatile environments, most often than not you have to adapt or suffer harsh consecuences.
And in all truth, hanging on one line phrases, like those you have mention, as if they were legally binding, when in reallity what it bothers you is that you find this particular changes inconvenient makes you look evasive and deceptive.NovaShadow wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to by this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
I understand where you're coming from, but.... I am a subscriber... and I have never interchanged the terms DLC and expansion... but that may be biased by the fact that I have previously played many MMO's...
The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).
No that is an article by Gamespot... not the whole gaming industry... I have been playing MMO's for a long time now and I think if you ask people with extensive MMO experience, a good majority would not interchange the terms DLC and Expansion...
They are interchangeable in the gaming industry, as a whole. You cannot assume that everyone who plays ESO is an MMO vet.
Says who? All I saw was one article...
It seems pretty common to me, among most games, smaller content drops are DLC and larger ones are expansions.
Since they are similar in nature it is easy to spin things to help validate the entitlement
Blood & Wine was a DLC for the Witcher 3. It is the same size or bigger than Morrowind.
There are no industry-wide definitions for the terms. Every developer uses their own standard.
You are correct it is not defined, and it's why the whining about not getting an expansion for free has no base. You pick out specifics to fit your argument but you don't look at the whole history of downloaded content drops. By and large things labeled as a dlc have been smaller drops. Things labeled as expansions have been bigger. In the case of mmos specifically they usually include new game systems in addition to content if they don't change the core game.
That's the case here. New content drop. New class. New game system (battlegrounds) that doesn't change the core game (you don't need to have access to battlegrounds to play)
Further, ESO plus is clear on the sales page. Access to all crown dlc for the duration of your sub.
This is not crown dlc. Bethesda has decided this is to be a major release, a boxed production. You can get the digital copy if you wish like most all modern offerings, but you aren't owed anything. ESO + still does what it advertises and mashing terms together for the sake of your argument doesn't make it any different.
I bolded your statement because it needs to be said that the wording was changed to reflect what you now see. It did not say that before.
I'm personally pissed because we were told one thing: ALL future content would be accessible with a current sub.
Now it's been changed to reflect what is now on the ESO + sales page.
That is where my personal anger is coming from, that lie/deception, it feels like a betrayal. I was led to believe one thing, now all of a sudden it's something else.
I don't care about the money, it's actually $60 for me. It's about the fact that I feel lied to and betrayed.
Uhm, ok am i missing something or it only says acceses to all downloadable content? That seems to me to be refering to be all current content, why you think it would grant you acces all future one?
That is how ESO + was advertised for Tamriel Unlimited. Since March 17th, 2015 it has been the case. Now it's changed out of no where. From March 17th, 2015 till now 'future' downloadable content was 'free' as such for those who subscribed.
Out of nowhere? They are giving you 5 months in advance, and they havent fault on their promise either, if thats what you care so much about, since you had access to all current downloadable content, meaning you got the value for what you were paying for.
To think that this agreement cant be changed on the future because that one simple line is just nonsense, and trying to leverage on it for your own personal convenience makes you look shaddy and deceptive.
How can a customer be shady and deceptive? A customer isn't selling anything to the billion dollar corporation.5 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭NovaShadow wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Speaking of deception, here is a Twitter post claiming we would recieve quarterly DLC updates:
Whether you consider One Tamriel and Homestead DLCs or not is up for debate (since the first did not introduce any new content and the second one only uses recycled assets and features no explorable zone). Regardless, the standard set before OT was a new "explorable zone" in every DLC. That was not delivered. Again, ZOS did not do anything legally wrong, but you can't fault players for feeling cheated.
There is nothing to debate whether or not 1t and homestead are or nor dlcs, theobviously are.NovaShadow wrote: »BlueViolet wrote: »I find it all a bit off really.
First they got around their "we will never add locked RNG boxes to ESO" b/s, by adding unlocked con crate lockboxes to the store.
Now they're getting around the "get all future content for free!" b/s line for subscriptions, by calling this new DLc an "expansion".
It isn't the price that bothers me. Its the evasive deceptiveness. It's really becoming harder and harder to put any faith or trust in them.
Markets are volatile environments, most often than not you have to adapt or suffer harsh consecuences.
And in all truth, hanging on one line phrases, like those you have mention, as if they were legally binding, when in reallity what it bothers you is that you find this particular changes inconvenient makes you look evasive and deceptive.NovaShadow wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to by this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
I understand where you're coming from, but.... I am a subscriber... and I have never interchanged the terms DLC and expansion... but that may be biased by the fact that I have previously played many MMO's...
The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).
No that is an article by Gamespot... not the whole gaming industry... I have been playing MMO's for a long time now and I think if you ask people with extensive MMO experience, a good majority would not interchange the terms DLC and Expansion...
They are interchangeable in the gaming industry, as a whole. You cannot assume that everyone who plays ESO is an MMO vet.
Says who? All I saw was one article...
It seems pretty common to me, among most games, smaller content drops are DLC and larger ones are expansions.
Since they are similar in nature it is easy to spin things to help validate the entitlement
Blood & Wine was a DLC for the Witcher 3. It is the same size or bigger than Morrowind.
There are no industry-wide definitions for the terms. Every developer uses their own standard.
You are correct it is not defined, and it's why the whining about not getting an expansion for free has no base. You pick out specifics to fit your argument but you don't look at the whole history of downloaded content drops. By and large things labeled as a dlc have been smaller drops. Things labeled as expansions have been bigger. In the case of mmos specifically they usually include new game systems in addition to content if they don't change the core game.
That's the case here. New content drop. New class. New game system (battlegrounds) that doesn't change the core game (you don't need to have access to battlegrounds to play)
Further, ESO plus is clear on the sales page. Access to all crown dlc for the duration of your sub.
This is not crown dlc. Bethesda has decided this is to be a major release, a boxed production. You can get the digital copy if you wish like most all modern offerings, but you aren't owed anything. ESO + still does what it advertises and mashing terms together for the sake of your argument doesn't make it any different.
I bolded your statement because it needs to be said that the wording was changed to reflect what you now see. It did not say that before.
I'm personally pissed because we were told one thing: ALL future content would be accessible with a current sub.
Now it's been changed to reflect what is now on the ESO + sales page.
That is where my personal anger is coming from, that lie/deception, it feels like a betrayal. I was led to believe one thing, now all of a sudden it's something else.
I don't care about the money, it's actually $60 for me. It's about the fact that I feel lied to and betrayed.
Uhm, ok am i missing something or it only says acceses to all downloadable content? That seems to me to be refering to be all current content, why you think it would grant you acces all future one?
That is how ESO + was advertised for Tamriel Unlimited. Since March 17th, 2015 it has been the case. Now it's changed out of no where. From March 17th, 2015 till now 'future' downloadable content was 'free' as such for those who subscribed.
Out of nowhere? They are giving you 5 months in advance, and they havent fault on their promise either, if thats what you care so much about, since you had access to all current downloadable content, meaning you got the value for what you were paying for.
To think that this agreement cant be changed on the future because that one simple line is just nonsense, and trying to leverage on it for your own personal convenience makes you look shaddy and deceptive.
Around the 20 minute mark, DLC's & ESO + are actually mentioned/discussed and what to expect when you have ESO +.
So it's not just 1 line, it was advertised by the Dev's even in a stream what you should expect in the future. Plain and simple. It was advertised as such.
Clockwork was included with the DLC's alongside one's we've yet to hear about.
Calling me shady/deceptive because I pointed out the facts you seem oblivious to only makes you look as such, not me.
Got a Yt mirror? If not ill be back to you tomorrow.
Want to say tho, the shaddy/deceptive is just an angle for argument sake, nothing personal behind it. Sorry if sounded too rude.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0
