ESO Plus (if you're upset, where was this when crafting bags was added)?????

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Are you suggesting

Everything I wish to state, has already been written.
At this point, I'm now only suggesting you lack the ability to discuss this reasonably. You're either trolling or you're incapable.

@willlienellson

Respectfully your comments seem to try and express that you have a different interpretation from what's actually written in the patch notes.

In context to Matt's announcement about the changes to Tamriel Unlimited and the ESO plus optional sub. This update of information clearly described and still exists on the website that ESO plus subscribers would get access to any dlc game pack and that "all base game updates" would not require a ESO plus sub

In context it provides customers to sub or buy access however base game updates would always be available to both.

The linked patch notes deviate from this specific to only the crafting bag and it's definitely written and clarified by Gina as a base game feature which requires ESO plus

Furthermore I'd appreciate your added comments but so do ask that we don't suggest that someone is trolling.

Thanks and I hope that brings any context that was lacking in a prior comment or my OP

kargen27 · February 2017

"The base game patch also features"

Also would be in addition to. So you have the base game patch and in addition to that you get all the other stuff mentioned.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf : I see what you're trying to say but there's a big difference. A crafting bag isn't compulsory to play. I agree that it changes the game experience to a large extent, but not having it doesn't prevent anyone from playing the entire game, not from being a full blown crafter.
Whereas, if you don't have Vvardenfell (err... I mean, Morrowind Online) obviously you can't play that content.
That's a big difference - hence why the "expansion" trick is way shadier than the crafting bag incentive.

I'll remember all the good things we got for free (essentially, the festivals and seasonal events), all the hours of fun I have with this game (which makes it a pretty cheap hobby "per hour"), buy the "expansion" and sweep my salt under the rug. But it's still shady.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

I'm not saying anything about its use actually. That's as you say and is fine

What I'm saying for those who are expressing that they were mislead that ESO plus would always give them access to any future dlc is the same as the expectation during the same announcement that a sub wouldn't be required for any future base game updates.

Make sense?

Yes, and it made sense in your original post too. My answer is still valid, in the sense that, in my opinion, the crafting bag is not an "update", it's a "convenience feature", whereas Vvardenfell is an update. I see why you draw a parallel here but I don't think the comparison stands.

But I understand. I wasn't loud back then but I also was frustrated when the crafting bag appeared as the 1st "sub-exclusive" feature.
Now we have cash-exclusive features. And we still have crown-exclusive stuff (like crown store motifs). And crate exclusive stuff too !
So we have four different "payment" methods, each with overlapping stuff but also with exclusive stuff. To push us into buying in all 4 different systems.
That's... maximizing profit, I guess.

Cool.
You'd think people would come together as it's the same misleading context vs arguing and suggesting ppl are wrong.

I took the wrong approach earlier today and then realized the better idea is to come together cause the list of what was said will be the case isn't the reality for different groups of customers now

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

"The base game patch also features"

Also would be in addition to. So you have the base game patch and in addition to that you get all the other stuff mentioned.

@kargen27
Just asking for clarification here.

If something such as the base game "also features" something that's referring to the "base game" and that an aspect of that includes or now has X

It seems you're saying that's not what it means?

Acrolas · February 2017

In other words, he's saying we were already arguing that ESO+ was obsolete six months ago.

Morrowind is just a nail in the opposing coffin.

ESO's monetization is so fractured we're all getting short-changed in some way. ZOS doesn't know what its best monetization feature is - because it doesn't have one. It devalued its crown currency through numerous sales. It liquidates its DLC on their anniversary. And now subscribing doesn't give you all-access to new content.

A strong, experienced company would offer its customers one track to the most features at a competitive price. Not five tracks to partial happiness.You shouldn't have to buy five different things from a company to feel like you're valued as a customer. ESO+ ran its course. If they want to nickel and dime everything there shouldn't be a $15 monthly surcharge on top of it. Just nickel and dime and let people choose what they want and don't want.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

kessik221 wrote: »

Is Morrowind going to ve purchasable through crown store? If so save your monthly crowns and bam, there you go your sub paid for your xpac.

@kessik221
No it's not going to be a crown purchase option

Just A fyi this ain't about me not buying any dlc a sub or Morrowind. It's specifically hoping to address the misleading communication and written info from ZOS that now seems to impact both subscribers and non-subscribers but what's occurred prior

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Acrolas wrote: »

In other words, he's saying we were already arguing that ESO+ was obsolete six months ago.

Morrowind is just a nail in the opposing coffin.

ESO's monetization is so fractured we're all getting short-changed in some way. ZOS doesn't know what its best monetization feature is - because it doesn't have one. It devalued its crown currency through numerous sales. It liquidates its DLC on their anniversary. And now subscribing doesn't give you all-access to new content.

A strong, experienced company would offer its customers one track to the most features at a competitive price. Not five tracks to partial happiness.You shouldn't have to buy five different things from a company to feel like you're valued as a customer. ESO+ ran its course. If they want to nickel and dime everything there shouldn't be a $15 monthly surcharge on top of it. Just nickel and dime and let people choose what they want and don't want.

There ya go

So now it's why does it matter when it seemingly didn't matter months ago?

kargen27 · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

"The base game patch also features"

Also would be in addition to. So you have the base game patch and in addition to that you get all the other stuff mentioned.

@kargen27
Just asking for clarification here.

If something such as the base game "also features" something that's referring to the "base game" and that an aspect of that includes or now has X

It seems you're saying that's not what it means?

It means when they did the update for the base game they included crafting bags for ESO+ members. They were a part of the also.

MLGProPlayer · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So I'm taking a very aggressive tone with some of you in the forums.

Before anyone gets too upset, I want to remind people of my feedback threads and many comments around ZOS' decision to go against their original claim that all base game updates would not require a sub.

See crafting bags is a base game update but it requires ESO Plus to gain full access.

Fast forward through all the harsh and tough comments made to me which mostly suggested....shut up and sub

Now all the subscribers who kept telling ppl they need to sub and who have literally bashed those who don't sub, seem to have experienced the same happening.

Morrowind as we heard today won't be accessible via ESO Plus.

Do you all want to talk about crafting bags now and being mislead????

Subs have supported this game for 2 years now. You haven't.

One can talk ***, the other, not so much.

scorpiodog · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So I'm taking a very aggressive tone with some of you in the forums.

Before anyone gets too upset, I want to remind people of my feedback threads and many comments around ZOS' decision to go against their original claim that all base game updates would not require a sub.

See crafting bags is a base game update but it requires ESO Plus to gain full access.

Fast forward through all the harsh and tough comments made to me which mostly suggested....shut up and sub

Now all the subscribers who kept telling ppl they need to sub and who have literally bashed those who don't sub, seem to have experienced the same happening.

Morrowind as we heard today won't be accessible via ESO Plus.

Do you all want to talk about crafting bags now and being mislead????

I knew ESO plus wasn't worth the money from day 1 ... and I also knew Crafting Bags were just a way to twist people's arm and make ESO Plus pretty much mandatory if you didn't want to constantly be logging in and out of Alt characters to make gold with crafting writs.

In fact, I'll one-up you, lol.

Just wait until people find out any Housing they purchase or furniture they spend thousands of hours trying to build will be rendered useless by some trick in the Morrowind expansion, lmao. Like some kind of Morrowind wall keeping out imported goods, FTW.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

"The base game patch also features"

Also would be in addition to. So you have the base game patch and in addition to that you get all the other stuff mentioned.

@kargen27
Just asking for clarification here.

If something such as the base game "also features" something that's referring to the "base game" and that an aspect of that includes or now has X

It seems you're saying that's not what it means?

It means when they did the update for the base game they included crafting bags for ESO+ members. They were a part of the also.

@kargen27

But that's not what's written and it's even clarified in the intro and later in the notes and placed under base game not under dlc or ESO plus sections.

cbaudersub17_ESO · February 2017

scorpiodog wrote: »

In fact, I'll one-up you, lol.

Just wait until people find out any Housing they purchase or furniture they spend thousands of hours trying to build will be rendered useless by some trick in the Morrowind expansion, lmao. Like some kind of Morrowind wall keeping out imported goods, FTW.

Champion Point armor level 180 <drops mic>.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So I'm taking a very aggressive tone with some of you in the forums.

Before anyone gets too upset, I want to remind people of my feedback threads and many comments around ZOS' decision to go against their original claim that all base game updates would not require a sub.

See crafting bags is a base game update but it requires ESO Plus to gain full access.

Fast forward through all the harsh and tough comments made to me which mostly suggested....shut up and sub

Now all the subscribers who kept telling ppl they need to sub and who have literally bashed those who don't sub, seem to have experienced the same happening.

Morrowind as we heard today won't be accessible via ESO Plus.

Do you all want to talk about crafting bags now and being mislead????

Subs have supported this game for 2 years now. You haven't.

One can talk ***, the other, not so much.

@MLGProPlayer

Possibly the article may read as if I don't sub.
I do when they can get it to work on Xbox one which is a whole different topic.

Anyways, why would only a subscriber be considered as the only ones who support the game?

Are not ESO Plus subs and buying crowns all supporting the company especially if the amounts are the same?

What does any of that have to do with being misled?

LiquidSchwartz · February 2017

No.. just no. If anyone is upset about paying for an EXPANSION then they can be upset, but nobody has justification for it. ESO Plus covers DLC not expansions to the whole game. This is a new chapter to the story not a small zone with a story and a skill line. This is what the prophet warned us of at the end of the Wrothgar questline.
The craft bag is a ESO plus perk it's listed as a perk, and idc what the notes say. We've been assured it's a perk for PAYING members. We don't get anything for being paying members on a free to play game. Many of us even own the DLC content so it only is to support the game and gain craft bag access.
If you can't afford ESO plus and you insist on complaining, examine your expenses and find somewhere you can afford 15 dollars because that is nothing for a working person even with bills that is 3 less coffees at Starbucks a month. And for the broke student, sucks to suck git gud.
You can have your cake and eat it if you pay for it (:

MLGProPlayer · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So I'm taking a very aggressive tone with some of you in the forums.

Before anyone gets too upset, I want to remind people of my feedback threads and many comments around ZOS' decision to go against their original claim that all base game updates would not require a sub.

See crafting bags is a base game update but it requires ESO Plus to gain full access.

Fast forward through all the harsh and tough comments made to me which mostly suggested....shut up and sub

Now all the subscribers who kept telling ppl they need to sub and who have literally bashed those who don't sub, seem to have experienced the same happening.

Morrowind as we heard today won't be accessible via ESO Plus.

Do you all want to talk about crafting bags now and being mislead????

Subs have supported this game for 2 years now. You haven't.

One can talk ***, the other, not so much.

@MLGProPlayer

Possibly the article may read as if I don't sub.
I do when they can get it to work on Xbox one which is a whole different topic.

Anyways, why would only a subscriber be considered as the only ones who support the game?

Are not ESO Plus subs and buying crowns all supporting the company especially if the amounts are the same?

What does any of that have to do with being misled?

Paying $180 a year for a game, by your own choice, gives you the right to complain about whatever you want.

Non-subs have no right to complain about subs being grumpy, unless they've spent a substantial amount of money on crowns.

I personally don't care that the expansion costs extra. But that doesn't mean others don't have the right to be ticked off.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So I'm taking a very aggressive tone with some of you in the forums.

Before anyone gets too upset, I want to remind people of my feedback threads and many comments around ZOS' decision to go against their original claim that all base game updates would not require a sub.

See crafting bags is a base game update but it requires ESO Plus to gain full access.

Fast forward through all the harsh and tough comments made to me which mostly suggested....shut up and sub

Now all the subscribers who kept telling ppl they need to sub and who have literally bashed those who don't sub, seem to have experienced the same happening.

Morrowind as we heard today won't be accessible via ESO Plus.

Do you all want to talk about crafting bags now and being mislead????

Subs have supported this game for 2 years now. You haven't.

One can talk ***, the other, not so much.

@MLGProPlayer

Possibly the article may read as if I don't sub.
I do when they can get it to work on Xbox one which is a whole different topic.

Anyways, why would only a subscriber be considered as the only ones who support the game?

Are not ESO Plus subs and buying crowns all supporting the company especially if the amounts are the same?

What does any of that have to do with being misled?

Paying $180 a year for a game, by your own choice, gives you the right to complain about whatever you want.

Non-subs have no right to complain about subs being grumpy, unless they've spent a substantial amount of money on crowns.

I personally don't care that the expansion costs extra. But that doesn't mean others don't have the right to be ticked off.

@MLGProPlayer

Cool so I guess I have far out earned the right cause in 2016 on Xbox one alone I've spent $335 supporting this game via crowns and ESO plus alone

Not counting 2015 or 2014 when I supported it on two platform prior to Xbox one release

So back on topic
I'm talking about the position that many continue to express where only subscribers have a say but somehow non-subscribers getting screwed supposedly should be ignored.

So it was and now the exact same thing has occurred to subscribers so if it wasn't a concern back then, is it truly a concern now?

Acrolas · February 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Subs have supported this game for 2 years now. You haven't.

One can talk ***, the other, not so much.

The only action that has come anywhere close to matching the venture capital invested into the game is the volume of box copies from all three platforms. Everything else - crown sales, subscriptions, etc - is a comparatively small fraction from a comparatively smaller population.

We've collectively supported the game by purchasing it. Yes, the subscriber number is a valuable marketing tool when seeking new rounds of venture capital, but individually it's fewer than three extra box sales per year.

Morrowind is probably targeted to sell around 5 million copies across all three platforms. So the sub 'supporter' advantage is about to be wiped. Again.

Wanderinlost · February 2017

They should not be releasing anything or any important feature exclusive only to subs. They are either behind B2P/DLC/crown store or they are not. SWTOR pulls this *** to a much greater extent with its insulting credit cap but it's manipulative. I am not suggesting they should give everything away but they should not intentionally make the game painful to play for non subscribers with no way to get around it. I was totally behind this game as a B2P/DLC game. I thought the subs were already better than most with the amount of crowns you get with it, but it went from being optional into something else. You either sub invalidating all the purchase of DLC or you suffer the consequences of not having decent inventory management. For most people it is probably not a big deal, but after 10-15 years of playing MMO's inventory managment starts to become an exercise in mental torture.

The reason B2P/DLC/MTX is so successful is it offers a great level of freedom. The sub model is simply not worth it unless you are playing 10-30+ hours per month. If you are an extreme casual, and like to play when you feel like it is hard to justify subbing to any game. I often go months without even logging into this game, and don't think I should have to sub just to enjoy it when I do. I would have bought every DLC this game put out until they shut the servers down.. now however it's not worth it when they lock the most important feature behind ESO+ and you need to waste money on a payment model they encouraged you to choose.

I am possibly being overly cynical, but it seems to me that now that ESO has recovered, in both reputation and cash flow they are going balls out trying to squeeze people everyway possible. Selling a large DLC or "expansion" is not so unfair, if it is extensive and large enough to justify the price tag then it is not a bad addition. If they had offered the craft bag as a crown store purchase as well as a free perk to subscribers that would have been great. It would have been inclusive to everyone who was given the choice between subs and MTX. Then there are the crown crates, which is pretty much an industry wide scourge right now, pushed on consumers to condition them into compulsive spending and bringing gatcha right into our homes.

I could go on. ESO is a pretty good game and getting better with time, but they are trying to push their customers in multiple directions. Buy the DLC, buy ESO+, buy crowns. All that is missing now is tokens and P2W elements. A game making money is never a bad thing, but they should never hold back a vitally important QoL feature of the game from half their customers. Just sell the damn thing like everything else and let the customer decide if it's worth it to them to buy. Don't manipulate and reduce the quality of gameplay just to pad your numbers, it is dishonest.

edit: as we speak I am having to delete *** out of my inv in the middle of a dungeon! such misery.
.

Elsonso · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So I'm taking a very aggressive tone with some of you in the forums.

Before anyone gets too upset, I want to remind people of my feedback threads and many comments around ZOS' decision to go against their original claim that all base game updates would not require a sub.

See crafting bags is a base game update but it requires ESO Plus to gain full access.

Fast forward through all the harsh and tough comments made to me which mostly suggested....shut up and sub

Now all the subscribers who kept telling ppl they need to sub and who have literally bashed those who don't sub, seem to have experienced the same happening.

Morrowind as we heard today won't be accessible via ESO Plus.

Do you all want to talk about crafting bags now and being mislead????

Well, I never expected that ESO Plus was an all content pass. They never said it was, and I never expected it to be. I knew the day would come when they did something bigger than a DLC and charged money for it. I don't know how much bigger, yet, but Vvardenfell is bigger than any DLC we have. The question is whether it is worth two Orsiniums, as that is about what it is priced. I suspect that it is, and then some.

The question that I want to ask is whether any of the people who are concerned about the fact that ESO Plus does not cover Morrowind are any of the people who were being the B2P champions, recently. They doubled down on B2P today, and I was prepared for the ultimate bad news. I feared that they would use Vvardenfell as an excuse to drop the game purchase and finish the free to play transition.

Tipsy247 · February 2017

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

Well, Morrowind is an expansion and NOT DLC. See what I did there?

How about dropping the labels and having a real equity discussion?

except perk and base game don't mean the same thing whereas expansion and DLC are the same thing

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Tipsy247 wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

Well, Morrowind is an expansion and NOT DLC. See what I did there?

How about dropping the labels and having a real equity discussion?

except perk and base game don't mean the same thing whereas expansion and DLC are the same thing

@Tipsy

You do realize it literally says base game features that requires ESO plus.

No idea where you all are getting the word perk from. I understand you're interpretation but that's not what's written.

DaveMoeDee · February 2017

Normally, I would scoff at complaining subbers saying ESO+ was obviously a ripoff from day one. But a bait and switch is a different story.

Regarding crafting bags, I thought it was a great idea to add them to ESO+. ESO+ was a ripoff before the bags, but the bags could really feel valuable to a player with inventory issues. I do not sub, and I would have loved to have them. But when people talked about putting them in the crown store, they mentioned absurdly cheap prices like 5000 or 10000 crowns. My response was that ESO+ was such a bad deal, that the bags were almost the only motivation for people to stick with forking over $15/month to get DLC they could purchase for $7-$15 a piece (assuming we are buying crowns during the regular sales).

In the year following the launch of the bags, there will have been 1500 crowns worth of DLC released. Only a single crown store DLC, 2 major base game updates, and then a so-called "expansion". For some, that is $180 worth of subbing for access to 1500 crowns worth of content. Crafting bags are the consolation prize that made that bearable to many. I do sympathize with those who wish they would just make everything available at the crown store and price them as needed, but the price for crafting bags really needs to be in the $200+ neighborhood at least, especially considering all the crown pack sales.

But now they have forces subbers to look at what they are getting for their sub. If the main thing they count on, access to all game content, has been irrelevant for 3 quarters, what is the point of subbing? Perhaps they subbed in good faith, figuring they will pay now, knowing ZOS is working hard on new content and they will help pay salaries by being a loyal, regular customer, and ZOS will return the favor by giving them access to the content they were paying for. NOPE!

cbaudersub17_ESO · February 2017

Tipsy247 wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

Well, Morrowind is an expansion and NOT DLC. See what I did there?

How about dropping the labels and having a real equity discussion?

except perk and base game don't mean the same thing whereas expansion and DLC are the same thing

Base game feature put behind a subscription wall. I can not speak for those that bought DLC when the game introduced the buy to play model, but seems like a 'hey, wait a minute moment'.

Wanderinlost · February 2017

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Normally, I would scoff at complaining subbers saying ESO+ was obviously a ripoff from day one. But a bait and switch is a different story.

Regarding crafting bags, I thought it was a great idea to add them to ESO+. ESO+ was a ripoff before the bags, but the bags could really feel valuable to a player with inventory issues. I do not sub, and I would have loved to have them. But when people talked about putting them in the crown store, they mentioned absurdly cheap prices like 5000 or 10000 crowns. My response was that ESO+ was such a bad deal, that the bags were almost the only motivation for people to stick with forking over $15/month to get DLC they could purchase for $7-$15 a piece (assuming we are buying crowns during the regular sales).

In the year following the launch of the bags, there will have been 1500 crowns worth of DLC released. Only a single crown store DLC, 2 major base game updates, and then a so-called "expansion". For some, that is $180 worth of subbing for access to 1500 crowns worth of content. Crafting bags are the consolation prize that made that bearable to many. I do sympathize with those who wish they would just make everything available at the crown store and price them as needed, but the price for crafting bags really needs to be in the $200+ neighborhood at least, especially considering all the crown pack sales.

But now they have forces subbers to look at what they are getting for their sub. If the main thing they count on, access to all game content, has been irrelevant for 3 quarters, what is the point of subbing? Perhaps they subbed in good faith, figuring they will pay now, knowing ZOS is working hard on new content and they will help pay salaries by being a loyal, regular customer, and ZOS will return the favor by giving them access to the content they were paying for. NOPE!

A bad deal? A year of subscription gets the 18,000 crowns per year. It is generous enough to offset the cost of the subscription by a long shot. It is quite literally a 90% offset. Then there is DLC access and progression buff. It leaves a sub 18k crowns to spend on whatever they want. Then there is the crafting bag, nobody is saying that the subscriber shouldn't get it, it is a nice addition to ESO+, but that has nothing to do with it being completely denied to everyone else who has been buying crown packs and DLC. This is a B2P game, at the very least we should expect access to the same QoL features as anyone.

Bam_Bam · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@Baranthus

"The base game patch also features an abundance of new features including poison-making as an extension of the Alchemy system, improvements to item set traits, more enhancements to the Grouping Tool, nameplates, item locking, Craft Bags for ESO Plus members, <snip>

So, craft bags FOR ESO PLUS MEMBERS

dunno how much more obvious I can make it without using fingerpaint.

Turelus · February 2017

I think people just want something to complain about, and we never complain about the stuff which would actually be beneficial to have heat under ZOS' butts on.

EvilCroc · February 2017

I'm not upset with new expansion, I like my crafting bag privelege as subscriber, but I can agree ZOS lied to us. I do not care, really. I've bought all DLC even with subscribe just for not to be dependent from it. And I'll buy this expansion too. But there is a fact, ZOS break their promises and shange rules. And people have right to be upset.

Pops_ND_Irish · February 2017

I sub for 6 months and also pre-ordered collectors upgrade.
If i didn't want too I would not. No one is making me (but I did get permission from wife first)

Evergnar · February 2017

I resubbed because of craftbags and access to dlc's (although I owned all of them at the time). I'll be unsubbing this month because of what looks like to be the only worthwhile content from "expansions".

Aquanova · February 2017

OP, i read the patch notes you linked and under the heading "Craft Bags" it says " ESO Plus members will have access to Crafter bags"

Not sure what your trying to point out.