ESO Plus (if you're upset, where was this when crafting bags was added)?????

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

So I'm taking a very aggressive tone with some of you in the forums.

Edit:

The position of @NewBlacksmurf is NOT rocket science to figure out. ZOS created two player types when the game first went buy-to-play. When a quality of life item was put behind a subscription wall, the group that chose to outright purchase content was left with no means in their pay model they chose to this quality of life item. Mr. @NewBlacksmurf is pointing out that there's a ZOS has a message history surrounding the change from subscription-based to buy-to-play themed behind both payer types having means and/or access. At best, in my opinion, the message is pretty garbled when release of the crafting bag became imminent.

NOW, future content is being placed behind a pay wall. However, everyone will have to pay. Wait, this actually makes what was done with the crafting bag seem worse to me.

I buy the content and subscribe during those times I play with frequency. The crafting bag is great!...because this game purposefully hamstrings inventory by design (not so Elder Scrollsey by the way). Can I live without it? Sure can. Did it before the crafting bag even existed. The reason I side with making the crafting bag available in some fashion to all is not so much a matter of convenience (although it AMAZINGLY is, especially with alts), it's that inventory management leaves 'hassel' and approaches or crosses into 'unfun' over time. Expansion of inventory slots did little to relieve this and the amount of 'keep-worthy' stuff is only growing.

By the way, ZOS CHANGES their intent for the game. There's been numerous directional shifts in the game's short life.

Before anyone gets too upset, I want to remind people of my feedback threads and many comments around ZOS' decision to go against their original claim that all base game updates would not require a sub.

See crafting bags is a base game update but it requires ESO Plus to gain full access.

Fast forward through all the harsh and tough comments made to me which mostly suggested....shut up and sub

Now all the subscribers who kept telling ppl they need to sub and who have literally bashed those who don't sub, seem to have experienced the same happening.

Morrowind as we heard today won't be accessible via ESO Plus.

Do you all want to talk about crafting bags now and being mislead????

Bam_Bam · February 2017

Since when are craftbags 'base game'? You can only get them if you sub.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Baranthus wrote: »

Since when are craftbags 'base game'? You can only get them if you sub.

Since the patch notes @Baranthus were wrote as such in PTS and all releases. On all platforms.

MasterSpatula · February 2017

Perks are not base game. Pretty sure you've been told this over and over.

Bam_Bam · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Baranthus wrote: »

Since when are craftbags 'base game'? You can only get them if you sub.

Since the patch notes @Baranthus were wrote as such in PTS and all releases. On all platforms.

If it was base game EVERYONE would have acces to the craftbag.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Perks are not base game. Pretty sure you've been told this over and over.

@MasterSpatula
It's not a perk Go read the patch notes bud

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Baranthus wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Baranthus wrote: »

Since when are craftbags 'base game'? You can only get them if you sub.

Since the patch notes @Baranthus were wrote as such in PTS and all releases. On all platforms.

If it was base game EVERYONE would have acces to the craftbag.

@Baranthus
Please go read before arguing

Bam_Bam · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Baranthus wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Baranthus wrote: »

Since when are craftbags 'base game'? You can only get them if you sub.

Since the patch notes @Baranthus were wrote as such in PTS and all releases. On all platforms.

If it was base game EVERYONE would have acces to the craftbag.

@Baranthus
Please go read before arguing

LINK PLEASE?

kargen27 · February 2017

Craft bags must be a perk of subscribing. If they were not everyone would have them, or no one would have them . When you can get something only through a certain action it is by definition pretty much a perk of that action.

cbaudersub17_ESO · February 2017

Well, Morrowind is an expansion and NOT DLC. See what I did there?

How about dropping the labels and having a real equity discussion?

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

@Baranthus

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2909351#Comment_2909351

"The base game patch also features an abundance of new features including poison-making as an extension of the Alchemy system, improvements to item set traits, more enhancements to the Grouping Tool, nameplates, item locking, Craft Bags for ESO Plus members, and more. "

Then go down and read

NEW FEATURES / UPDATES / BIG CHANGES

Base Game Patch

BlackSparrow · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Now all the subscribers who kept telling ppl they need to sub and who have literally bashed those who don't sub...

O_o

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

BlackSparrow wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Now all the subscribers who kept telling ppl they need to sub and who have literally bashed those who don't sub...

O_o

@BlackSparrow

Definition: Informal To criticize (another) harshly, accusatorially, and threateningly:

BlackSparrow · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Now all the subscribers who kept telling ppl they need to sub and who have literally bashed those who don't sub...

O_o

@BlackSparrow

Definition: Informal To criticize (another) harshly, accusatorially, and threateningly:

That's the informal definition.

The literal definition is to bludgeon someone or something. Like with a stick.

Just saying you don't see many subbers taking a maul to the non-subs. Not outside Cyrodiil anyway.

willlienellson · February 2017

Oh sheesh.

When Zos talks about a "base game" feature implemented in patch notes, they mean "COMPREHENSIVE". They mean it applies to the base game, and is not contingent upon the existence of a DLC.

I know this because I had a "context clues" lesson in 3rd grade reading.

They don't mean you definitely get to use it no matter what if you bought the base game. They mean the feature/change/item works without DLC (as opposed to required DLC to function).

Cadbury · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Now all the subscribers who kept telling ppl they need to sub and who have literally bashed those who don't sub...

O_o

@BlackSparrow

Definition: Informal To criticize (another) harshly, accusatorially, and threateningly:

It doesn't help your debate if you open with hyperbole and an aggressive posture.

This is no different than the topics popping up saying "Don't like it, don't sub lol".

That being said, the craft bag perk has always seemed to me a poor justification for subbing. And I say that as a subscriber.
Its a simple QoL perk that could have been added for everyone (But in reality, they most likely would have added it to the CS otherwise)

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Now all the subscribers who kept telling ppl they need to sub and who have literally bashed those who don't sub...

O_o

@BlackSparrow

Definition: Informal To criticize (another) harshly, accusatorially, and threateningly:

It doesn't help your debate if you open with hyperbole and an aggressive posture.

This is no different than the topics popping up saying "Don't like it, don't sub lol".

That being said, the craft bag perk has always seemed to me a poor justification for subbing. And I say that as a subscriber.
Its a simple QoL perk that could have been added for everyone (But in reality, they most likely would have added it to the CS otherwise)

@Cadbury
It's not a debate it's a reality that the current ESO Plus in context to Morrowind are hypocritical in nature considering the many prior aggressive responses to non-subscribers from subscribers whose comments on crafting bags and dlc topics since 2015 now seem a bit odd

MasterSpatula · February 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Oh sheesh.

When Zos talks about a "base game" feature implemented in patch notes, they mean "COMPREHENSIVE". They mean it applies to the base game, and is not contingent upon the existence of a DLC.

I know this because I had a "context clues" lesson in 3rd grade reading.

They don't mean you definitely get to use it no matter what if you bought the base game. They mean the feature/change/item works without DLC (as opposed to required DLC to function).

Shhh, don't try logic in this thread. It's pretty obviously out of place.

Betheny · February 2017

Don't look at me, I quietly went and bought the digital collector upgrade soon as I saw this at breakfast.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Oh sheesh.

When Zos talks about a "base game" feature implemented in patch notes, they mean "COMPREHENSIVE". They mean it applies to the base game, and is not contingent upon the existence of a DLC.

I know this because I had a "context clues" lesson in 3rd grade reading.

They don't mean you definitely get to use it no matter what if you bought the base game. They mean the feature/change/item works without DLC (as opposed to required DLC to function).

@willlienellson
Did you go and read the actual patch notes?

I'm asking because in your comments you're suggesting context clue would determine something other than what's clearly written and what was clearly commented on at that time that they chose to lock a base game feature behind a sub.

It's not what you're suggesting

LtCrunch · February 2017

What is this, grade school?

Tandor · February 2017

OP was wrong back then, and he's wrong again now.

Nothing new here folks, just some more whining albeit a tad more aggressive than usual.

Tapio75 · February 2017

Crafting bag and full continent of stories and stuff are quite a bit different story.

ESO+ Needed some more worth and crafting bag was great for that.

Be a good person and subscribe to give steady support for the games development.

PS: I am happy to pay for Morrowind, its quite a bit larger than DLC updates and also has nice collectors edition package and a statue that goes right next to Molly's statue ^^

sekou_trayvond · February 2017

Yeah, I'm a functional adult. $40 ain't no thang.

Pre-order!

willlienellson · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@willlienellson
Did you go and read the actual patch notes?

I'm asking because in your comments you're suggesting context clue would determine something other than what's clearly written and what was clearly commented on at that time that they chose to lock a base game feature behind a sub.

It's not what you're suggesting

Didn't you QUOTE the section of patch notes you thought was relevant a few posts above this?

If you're quoting the patch notes and simultaneously telling people they need to go read the patch notes, then you're failing.

I read the patch notes back then. I read the section you quoted. You're still wrong.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@willlienellson
Did you go and read the actual patch notes?

I'm asking because in your comments you're suggesting context clue would determine something other than what's clearly written and what was clearly commented on at that time that they chose to lock a base game feature behind a sub.

It's not what you're suggesting

Didn't you QUOTE the section of patch notes you thought was relevant a few posts above this?

If you're quoting the patch notes and simultaneously telling people they need to go read the patch notes, then you're failing.

I read the patch notes back then. I read the section you quoted. You're still wrong.

@willlienellson

Wrong about what exactly.
Are you suggesting the crafting bag literally isn't a base game feature only accessible from ESO plus?

Honestly asking based on your comments. I want to follow what you're suggesting?

anitajoneb17_ESO · February 2017

@NewBlacksmurf : I see what you're trying to say but there's a big difference. A crafting bag isn't compulsory to play. I agree that it changes the game experience to a large extent, but not having it doesn't prevent anyone from playing the entire game, nor from being a full blown crafter.
Whereas, if you don't have Vvardenfell (err... I mean, Morrowind Online) obviously you can't play that content.
That's a big difference - hence why the "expansion" trick is way shadier than the crafting bag incentive.

I'll remember all the good things we got for free (essentially, the festivals and seasonal events), all the hours of fun I have with this game (which makes it a pretty cheap hobby "per hour"), buy the "expansion" and sweep my salt under the rug. But it's still shady.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf : I see what you're trying to say but there's a big difference. A crafting bag isn't compulsory to play. I agree that it changes the game experience to a large extent, but not having it doesn't prevent anyone from playing the entire game, not from being a full blown crafter.
Whereas, if you don't have Vvardenfell (err... I mean, Morrowind Online) obviously you can't play that content.
That's a big difference - hence why the "expansion" trick is way shadier than the crafting bag incentive.

I'll remember all the good things we got for free (essentially, the festivals and seasonal events), all the hours of fun I have with this game (which makes it a pretty cheap hobby "per hour"), buy the "expansion" and sweep my salt under the rug. But it's still shady.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

I'm not saying anything about its use actually. That's as you say and is fine

What I'm saying for those who are expressing that they were mislead that ESO plus would always give them access to any future dlc is the same as the expectation during the same announcement that a sub wouldn't be required for any future base game updates.

Make sense?

willlienellson · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Are you suggesting

Everything I wish to state has already been written.
At this point, I'm now only suggesting you aren't discussing this reasonably. I think you're being deliberately obtuse, but I could be wrong.
Either way, you're either trolling or you're incapable.

kessik221 · February 2017

Is Morrowind going to ve purchasable through crown store? If so save your monthly crowns and bam, there you go your sub paid for your xpac.

anitajoneb17_ESO · February 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf : I see what you're trying to say but there's a big difference. A crafting bag isn't compulsory to play. I agree that it changes the game experience to a large extent, but not having it doesn't prevent anyone from playing the entire game, not from being a full blown crafter.
Whereas, if you don't have Vvardenfell (err... I mean, Morrowind Online) obviously you can't play that content.
That's a big difference - hence why the "expansion" trick is way shadier than the crafting bag incentive.

I'll remember all the good things we got for free (essentially, the festivals and seasonal events), all the hours of fun I have with this game (which makes it a pretty cheap hobby "per hour"), buy the "expansion" and sweep my salt under the rug. But it's still shady.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

I'm not saying anything about its use actually. That's as you say and is fine

What I'm saying for those who are expressing that they were mislead that ESO plus would always give them access to any future dlc is the same as the expectation during the same announcement that a sub wouldn't be required for any future base game updates.

Make sense?

Yes, and it made sense in your original post too. My answer is still valid, in the sense that, in my opinion, the crafting bag is not an "update", it's a "convenience feature", whereas Vvardenfell is an update. I see why you draw a parallel here but I don't think the comparison stands.

But I understand. I wasn't loud back then but I also was frustrated when the crafting bag appeared as the 1st "sub-exclusive" feature.
Now we have cash-exclusive features. And we still have crown-exclusive stuff (like crown store motifs). And crate exclusive stuff too !
So we have four different "payment" methods, each with overlapping stuff but also with exclusive stuff. To push us into buying in all 4 different systems.
That's... maximizing profit, I guess.