VMoL Has Ruined PS4's PvE Scene

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2017

I just want to mention ive been having a blast playing Ark survival. I was never a fan of Eso pve. Pvp is alright but until balance is better you wont see me for awhile. Eso in my opinion is slowly dying.

willlienellson · January 2017

This is what happens when you give the most powerful gear as a reward for the most challenging content. Players could ALREADY BEAT the hardest content before they got the best gear. Now with the best gear they clamor for harder content. It's a negative feedback loop. They demand harder content from Zos and demand better gear as a reward. Round and round we go.

And when Zos doesn't give them harder content, or until they do, they start demanding 10 minute runs. 8 minute runs. 5 minute runs!

Hurry Hurry Hurry Better Better Go Go Rahhh Rahhh!

Successful games reward top tier content with visual rewards or utility rewards, not better gear that just makes the elite demand a new tier of difficult content.

Miss_Morphine · January 2017

Separating the people by skinned and not skinned is definitely messed up, but making people start with a progression team isn't.

Everyone who has completed has either been on countless progression/training runs, or they were carried(or they cheated).

Your skills outside of vMoL are important, sure, but they don't really determine how well you know the mechanics or how well you mesh with the team. All that really matters. I can tell you that all the "cores" I know who complete regularly have spent countless hours wiping and hearing how the progression went well - rinse and repeat.

Furthermore it's not just learning a rotation. You have to know the mechanics, you have to know what everyone on the team is doing and almost be able to anticipate their actions. It's a completely different skill set than one you'd need to solo or be self reliant.

If you don't like being put in progression in other guilds you can always just make your own. Your team however will also be progression for a good long chunk of time. It's not like you'll one shot it with people who are new to the mechanics. All of that is ok - don't lose hope if you do, and I honestly wish you the best of luck completing if that is the course you choose. It's a lot of fun and a lot of frustration and it's great.

TL;DR: I'm sure some of it is sadly elitism but some of it is not.

DschiPeunt · January 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

This is what happens when you give the most powerful gear as a reward for the most challenging content. Players could ALREADY BEAT the hardest content before they got the best gear. Now with the best gear they clamor for harder content. It's a negative feedback loop. They demand harder content from Zos and demand better gear as a reward. Round and round we go.

And when Zos doesn't give them harder content, or until they do, they start demanding 10 minute runs. 8 minute runs. 5 minute runs!

Hurry Hurry Hurry Better Better Go Go Rahhh Rahhh!

Successful games reward top tier content with visual rewards or utility rewards, not better gear that just makes the elite demand a new tier of difficult content.

So, by your definition, ESO is a successful game, yes?

Ch4mpTW · January 2017

DschiPeunt wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

This is what happens when you give the most powerful gear as a reward for the most challenging content. Players could ALREADY BEAT the hardest content before they got the best gear. Now with the best gear they clamor for harder content. It's a negative feedback loop. They demand harder content from Zos and demand better gear as a reward. Round and round we go.

And when Zos doesn't give them harder content, or until they do, they start demanding 10 minute runs. 8 minute runs. 5 minute runs!

Hurry Hurry Hurry Better Better Go Go Rahhh Rahhh!

Successful games reward top tier content with visual rewards or utility rewards, not better gear that just makes the elite demand a new tier of difficult content.

So, by your definition, ESO is a successful game, yes?

Although you aren't asking me, I would say that ESO has been moderately successful. Although there are numerous glaring flaws still wrong with it. The game has generated a vast amount of revenue, and attracted quite a variety of players. True however that more players keep leaving by the day to play other games, and or quitting out of anger at the setbacks ESO has. But! It doesn't take place from all the positives it has, regardless of its major shortcomings.

IronCrystal · January 2017

While I agree that discrimination is not good between players, you do need to be in a progression group if you plan to complete vMoL. I guarantee you aren't going to go in there and beat it your first time. Being part of a team is important, and knowing the mechanics is only half the battle. It takes practice, and you need to get used to your teammates.

I myself have completed vMoL, but we are still struggling sometimes to beat it so we still practice it all the time so everyone knows it inside and out. Have not attempted hard mode yet though. It's all part of being in a progression group.

I myself have started another progression group for the other vet trials as well. Many players have never been in a 12 man situation other than a normal trial which is easy af, and don't know how to work properly in a team. No, we don't race to get best scores, but the feeling of accomplishment is very satisfying after trying very hard week after week to beat it.

I would argue that soloing a world boss is a very different skill set from beating a vet trial as a team. In a vet trial, you play as a team, whereas world bosses are just solo so you have to perform multiple roles.

BlazingDynamo · January 2017

Grand Council use to be my old guild back when my buddy was guild master. This was pre vMoL and the guild was well respected by the community. I had lots of fun running with the OG Council crew we became friends outside of the game.

The guild eventually got handed off to another friend of mine once the pervious guildmaster stopped playing than when he stopped playing it got handed to who currently holds it. Reason it wasn't given to me cause the guy who has it now was a tremendous ass kisser.

After we cleared vMoL less than a week before the other guild (shoulda been first but the "guildmaster" pulled all runs until he beat it with the other guys first) I dropped the guild and stopped playing.

About 3 weeks ago me and my buddy who ran the guild from the start picked ESO back up again. I started up my own guild and plan to run raids on weekends casually.

It all comes down to making friends in the game, people you just enjoy playing with and sticking to that. As great as we use to be I doubt we have time to get back to how we were before.

GC is a disgrace to what it use to be. We made that guild and it was destroyed by an ego driven maniac. It's sad. But it is what it is.

Don't actually know where any of that was going. Just wanted to express that I've been personally invested in the guild you speak of and the people in it.

Meh screw em eh?

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

Separating the people by skinned and not skinned is definitely messed up, but making people start with a progression team isn't.

Everyone who has completed has either been on countless progression/training runs, or they were carried(or they cheated).

Your skills outside of vMoL are important, sure, but they don't really determine how well you know the mechanics or how well you mesh with the team. All that really matters. I can tell you that all the "cores" I know who complete regularly have spent countless hours wiping and hearing how the progression went well - rinse and repeat.

Furthermore it's not just learning a rotation. You have to know the mechanics, you have to know what everyone on the team is doing and almost be able to anticipate their actions. It's a completely different skill set than one you'd need to solo or be self reliant.

If you don't like being put in progression in other guilds you can always just make your own. Your team however will also be progression for a good long chunk of time. It's not like you'll one shot it with people who are new to the mechanics. All of that is ok - don't lose hope if you do, and I honestly wish you the best of luck completing if that is the course you choose. It's a lot of fun and a lot of frustration and it's great.

TL;DR: I'm sure some of it is sadly elitism but some of it is not.

Well said.
I guess there's not much to add, except that from my experience people who cheesed their way to some difficult to obtain collectible are much more "elitist" than those who actually earned it. Ive met a few people who bought vMoL skins... Eh.
As for dps tests/asking to post dps after every fight, I dont think that's elitist if it happens in a progression guild. Progression groups are all about improvement. Of course, its not something that everyone would enjoy, but playing with likeminded people is the point of being in a guild, right? Everyone has a right to play as they want.

VampiricByNature · January 2017

I got my maw skin with a small guild on ps4. A certain talented Scottish tank thought it was a good idea to get 11 new people the skin. And he did.
First we leapt through hoops. Faster times in all the other trials. Hard mode hel ra. Dps testing. Practice.
In the end it took more than 40hrs in Maw. I think it was 3 full weekends that turned me into a mole person, never to see daylight. But he did it. He got us through for the skin.
Unfortunately, a lot of those people promptly stopped playing eso. It is about the skin for a lot of people but those guys did put in the work beforehand.
There are really great people and great progressions on PS4. You just have to be open minded. You're not going to agree with everything in every group.
I wish elitism wasn't a thing. But I also wish that a lot of people wouldn't get mad over being asked to try different gear etc for trial runs. If you only have to wear that gear for a 45 minute maw run, I don't think that's too much to ask. My healer doesn't run spc and aether because it's fun, yknow?
I appreciate a certain guild offering legit carries for people who want it. Say what you might, but every person who JUST wants the skin isn't someone I prefer to trial with. This weeds them out. I've done many MANY progressions with people who disappear into the woodwork at the sight of their character in the skin. Nothing is worse than teaching someone, working hard, and then they disappear- unwilling to help the next group get their skins.

DannyLV702 · January 2017

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Grand Council use to be my old guild back when my buddy was guild master. This was pre vMoL and the guild was well respected by the community. I had lots of fun running with the OG Council crew we became friends outside of the game.

The guild eventually got handed off to another friend of mine once the pervious guildmaster stopped playing than when he stopped playing it got handed to who currently holds it. Reason it wasn't given to me cause the guy who has it now was a tremendous ass kisser.

After we cleared vMoL less than a week before the other guild (shoulda been first but the "guildmaster" pulled all runs until he beat it with the other guys first) I dropped the guild and stopped playing.

About 3 weeks ago me and my buddy who ran the guild from the start picked ESO back up again. I started up my own guild and plan to run raids on weekends casually.

It all comes down to making friends in the game, people you just enjoy playing with and sticking to that. As great as we use to be I doubt we have time to get back to how we were before.

GC is a disgrace to what it use to be. We made that guild and it was destroyed by an ego driven maniac. It's sad. But it is what it is.

Don't actually know where any of that was going. Just wanted to express that I've been personally invested in the guild you speak of and the people in it.

Meh screw em eh?

Interesting read

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

@willlienellson wrote: »

This is what happens when you give the most powerful gear as a reward for the most challenging content. Players could ALREADY BEAT the hardest content before they got the best gear. Now with the best gear they clamor for harder content. It's a negative feedback loop. They demand harder content from Zos and demand better gear as a reward. Round and round we go.

And when Zos doesn't give them harder content, or until they do, they start demanding 10 minute runs. 8 minute runs. 5 minute runs!

Hurry Hurry Hurry Better Better Go Go Rahhh Rahhh!

Successful games reward top tier content with visual rewards or utility rewards, not better gear that just makes the elite demand a new tier of difficult content.

What exactly can you get from vMoL that isnt obtainable in nMoL?
Golden jewelry is not THAT much more powerful than blue/purple.
Drop rate isnt any better on vet... Ive beaten vMoL last June (or was it May?), was doing it quite often since then and still dont have sharpened Moondancer destro of any kind or any sword.

cpuScientist · January 2017

LOL then get the skin

Gaggin · January 2017

It's not so bad on PC. I do hear some guilds are like that, and I guess they produce, but my guild has picked up a lot of great players lately who've been disgusted at this kind of behavior in their other guilds. We do vmol training runs every week where anyone can join, and usually at least half the group is core and lead by officers so we can develop new players and help them get better. As long as people aren't *** bags we're willing to work with it. We do dps tests not to determine rank, but to see where people are at and how we can help improve them. I know some other guilds are like this, just gotta keep an ear out for an invite.

IMO a truly elite player can do runs with 'non-elite' players and still come out ahead. That's what leadership is all about.

Oh, and selling 'carry runs'(or buying them) is a ***-baggy move. It shows how some people just have no class or sportsmanship.

cpuScientist · January 2017

Gaggin wrote: »

It's not so bad on PC. I do hear some guilds are like that, and I guess they produce, but my guild has picked up a lot of great players lately who've been disgusted at this kind of behavior in their other guilds. We do vmol training runs every week where anyone can join, and usually at least half the group is core and lead by officers so we can develop new players and help them get better. As long as people aren't *** bags we're willing to work with it. We do dps tests not to determine rank, but to see where people are at and how we can help improve them. I know some other guilds are like this, just gotta keep an ear out for an invite.

IMO a truly elite player can do runs with 'non-elite' players and still come out ahead. That's what leadership is all about.

Oh, and selling 'carry runs'(or buying them) is a ***-baggy move. It shows how some people just have no class or sportsmanship.

I haven't ever sold a run. But I don't quite see why it's so bad. I mean you got 11 people together and trained them to beat this place. And now that it's beat, awhy not make a little profit. Basically like selling mercenary work...

cpuScientist · January 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@willlienellson wrote: »

This is what happens when you give the most powerful gear as a reward for the most challenging content. Players could ALREADY BEAT the hardest content before they got the best gear. Now with the best gear they clamor for harder content. It's a negative feedback loop. They demand harder content from Zos and demand better gear as a reward. Round and round we go.

And when Zos doesn't give them harder content, or until they do, they start demanding 10 minute runs. 8 minute runs. 5 minute runs!

Hurry Hurry Hurry Better Better Go Go Rahhh Rahhh!

Successful games reward top tier content with visual rewards or utility rewards, not better gear that just makes the elite demand a new tier of difficult content.

What exactly can you get from vMoL that isnt obtainable in nMoL?
Golden jewelry is not THAT much more powerful than blue/purple.
Drop rate isnt any better on vet... Ive beaten vMoL last June (or was it May?), was doing it quite often since then and still dont have sharpened Moondancer destro of any kind or any sword.

Skin & jewelry.

Enslaved · January 2017

I agree. It is not like exploiting or selling emperorship in Cyrodiil.

psychotic13 · January 2017

You really need to get out more man, the amount of threads you make which are full of complete BS is beyond, stop taking everything so seriously bruh, might have more fun

Tinus_92 · January 2017

You don't need flawless conqueror or be able to solo veteran dungeons do beat vmol. Most people can deliver decent DPS, but it's all about getting a good team together who is willing to learn everything and can commit time into this. Vmol isn't beaten in one day with a new group, it takes a lot of practise evenings for most, and you'll have to understand that everyone needs some time to learn the trial and do it perfectly. Patience on your teammembers is very important as well, especially for a progression group. Nothing wrong with that title by the way.

If you're struggling to get in a good group, perhaps it's time to create your own. Will take some time, but no one will kick you out. As mentioned before having a solid group with the same members is important. With our default team we're running vmol in 30 minutes, but when you add up 1-2 new members it can take up to a hour or more. Let alone having a few more ppl who don't know what they're doing.

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@willlienellson wrote: »

This is what happens when you give the most powerful gear as a reward for the most challenging content. Players could ALREADY BEAT the hardest content before they got the best gear. Now with the best gear they clamor for harder content. It's a negative feedback loop. They demand harder content from Zos and demand better gear as a reward. Round and round we go.

And when Zos doesn't give them harder content, or until they do, they start demanding 10 minute runs. 8 minute runs. 5 minute runs!

Hurry Hurry Hurry Better Better Go Go Rahhh Rahhh!

Successful games reward top tier content with visual rewards or utility rewards, not better gear that just makes the elite demand a new tier of difficult content.

What exactly can you get from vMoL that isnt obtainable in nMoL?
Golden jewelry is not THAT much more powerful than blue/purple.
Drop rate isnt any better on vet... Ive beaten vMoL last June (or was it May?), was doing it quite often since then and still dont have sharpened Moondancer destro of any kind or any sword.

Skin & jewelry.

Skin doesnt have stats and yellow jewelry is nice to have but its not a gamechanger...

Ch4mpTW · January 2017

psychotic13 wrote: »

You really need to get out more man, the amount of threads you make which are full of complete BS is beyond, stop taking everything so seriously bruh, might have more fun

Full of complete BS...? What? What game are you playing? Because we clearly aren't playing the same games. Go out and wander about in hubs like: Rawlk'ha or Elden Root. Or just wander about populated zones in general. And you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Or better yet, play long enough and join enough groups. And you'll see exactly what I mean.

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

You really need to get out more man, the amount of threads you make which are full of complete BS is beyond, stop taking everything so seriously bruh, might have more fun

Full of complete BS...? What? What game are you playing? Because we clearly aren't playing the same games. Go out and wander about in hubs like: Rawlk'ha or Elden Root. Or just wander about populated zones in general. And you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Or better yet, play long enough and join enough groups. And you'll see exactly what I mean.

It must be different on PC then.
I have vMA and vMoL titles but dont always wear them and still most of people I meet are adequate.
No one is asking if I'm "skinned" (Idk to me it sounds weird and a bit creepy... "Skinned" as "flayed"? XD No thanks ) or not.

DPShiro · January 2017

Most legit teams spent weeks, if not months, progressing vMoL. It seems you expect to get into a run and get carried and get the skin right away? If the leader of the group says it's good progress then maybe it is?
If you get accepted into a guild helping players to progress it, maybe be happy for that instead of whining about some people having it etc.

People should be divided, but not by skin or not. But rather their performance and scores in all Trials.

Soloing dungeons etc is not a good measure of how good you can handle a trial. For example if you bring a solo build into a trial you will hinder the team and be a useless burden.

Questions/interviews are good to weed out the clowns and trolls, and DPS tests are also a good way to se e how well you can handle your character/class damage output. I mean sure you can solo dungeons while doing 5k DPS, but that's not going to work in a team/trial.

Btw, if you spend more time with those guilds instead of creating 9675685 threads everyday you would probably have it by now

pattyLtd · January 2017

I loved the experience of getting through vdsa with my friends a long time ago and can only imagine how much better that feeling would even be if it's with 12 friends getting through vMOL.

I love that kind of experience but i hate the mindset of some of the people in veteran trials and there is always one that starts nagging and then it just escalates from there.

This is why i only have done a few veteran trials so far (not vMOL), it's too stressfull for me and I don't have 12 like minded people that are willing to give it a try together so i just don't bother with vMOL at all for now.

Turelus · January 2017

This is why I slowly worked out who the more casual and competent guilds were and worked with them in the past.

I'm not looking for world firsts, number ones or blitzing 20 dungeons per hour, I just want to complete the content and have some fun.

Best option is to just ignore those people, find more like minded people and band together to make a guild which can do what you want.

Liofa · January 2017

What you need is a PC . Everyone here is kind to each other because no one is special . Everyone who is in a decent guild can achieve what those guys are selling for 2 freaking million . Seriously though , that is pathetic .

Only ''elitism'' (if you can call it that) you will see on PC will be like this . They actually know stuff , you don't but act like you do . This will be the only time . Because they will be pissed from your ignorance . Other than that , you won't see anything even close to what happens in whatever platform you are playing .

What the hell ... 2M ... seriously ?

modaretto · January 2017

DigitalShibby wrote: »

Sounds like PS4 just became more like PC.
This is why people eventually stop doing anything in game that involves other people lol.

I would say if you do want to do things with other people you should make some effort. Yes get gear, master your class and learn the mechanics. VMOL is not a trial anyone can get carried. There can be one player wiping the group for 2 hours on second boss. Must be fun for that guy but not for 11 others who do know mechanics and get bombarded by someone who is entitled to access every content because "reasons".

If you ever wanted to compete for leaderboards there were always such expectations. Difference is even if you don't want leaderboard in VMOL you still need to know what you are doing so you don't spoil the raid for others.

As for exploits they should be fixed asap and luckily they did that with rakkhat exploit. I don't think anyone who sees CP200 with a skin will believe that. Best way is to ask them straight out and if you know they exploited then report in-game. I don't care if they feel entitled to exploiting just because they can. They still get reported and on my ignore list. It's simple and easy.

modaretto · January 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Bruh, I can definitely tell. But again, I try not to cast judgments. Even though I'm often cringing, and or laughing hard as a MF'er over the e-peen measuring I hear and see. The DPS time bragging is what gets me every time though. Because seeing how fast you can kill a stationary boss while it's being tanked, and you're being healed and buffed definitely is a clear indicator of your skill and knowledge of the game overall. And should definitely decide whether or not you're "worthy" to be brought along. Pffffft. Yeah okay. You learned a rotation. Nice. Cool beans, brah.

I would like to know how you plan to pulls dps on rakkhat if you can't do it on a stationary boss where you need to stand and do a perfect rotation. It's a mystery

Ch4mpTW · January 2017

modaretto wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Bruh, I can definitely tell. But again, I try not to cast judgments. Even though I'm often cringing, and or laughing hard as a MF'er over the e-peen measuring I hear and see. The DPS time bragging is what gets me every time though. Because seeing how fast you can kill a stationary boss while it's being tanked, and you're being healed and buffed definitely is a clear indicator of your skill and knowledge of the game overall. And should definitely decide whether or not you're "worthy" to be brought along. Pffffft. Yeah okay. You learned a rotation. Nice. Cool beans, brah.

I would like to know how you plan to pulls dps on rakkhat if you can't do it on a stationary boss where you need to stand and do a perfect rotation. It's a mystery

As how I would like to know why it is so damn important to flaunt your skills of burning a boss that's being tanked, and you're being healed and buffed. To me personally, that isn't impressive. Not even in the slightest. Impressive to me is being able to do so solo, and be able to discuss and show your knowledge of mechanics at hand. That is what impresses me. Talking about who you know, and how fast you can DPS a boss means nada to me. And honestly, it makes me cringe.

willlienellson · January 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

What exactly can you get from vMoL that isnt obtainable in nMoL?
Golden jewelry is not THAT much more powerful than blue/purple.
Drop rate isnt any better on vet... Ive beaten vMoL last June (or was it May?), was doing it quite often since then and still dont have sharpened Moondancer destro of any kind or any sword.

What makes you think I'm talking about vMoL specifically? I'm talking about the fundamental structure of the entire game. Remember when the best weapons were Master Weapons and the hardest content in the game was Dragon Star Arena? I do.
VMA was the same. It's a trend.

You basically make my point for me. You've beaten the hardest content in the game and you've yet to be rewarded with better gear that drops from that content. When you finally get rewarded with that (after already beating the hardest stuff many times) and your build is even better what are you going to do......come on the forums and demand harder content? XD

And as you state yourself, you DO in fact get gold jewelry from vMoL, which DOES incrementally buff the builds of players already beating the hardest content.

I'm so glad we agree.

DPShiro · January 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

modaretto wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Bruh, I can definitely tell. But again, I try not to cast judgments. Even though I'm often cringing, and or laughing hard as a MF'er over the e-peen measuring I hear and see. The DPS time bragging is what gets me every time though. Because seeing how fast you can kill a stationary boss while it's being tanked, and you're being healed and buffed definitely is a clear indicator of your skill and knowledge of the game overall. And should definitely decide whether or not you're "worthy" to be brought along. Pffffft. Yeah okay. You learned a rotation. Nice. Cool beans, brah.

I would like to know how you plan to pulls dps on rakkhat if you can't do it on a stationary boss where you need to stand and do a perfect rotation. It's a mystery

As how I would like to know why it is so damn important to flaunt your skills of burning a boss that's being tanked, and you're being healed and buffed. To me personally, that isn't impressive. Not even in the slightest. Impressive to me is being able to do so solo, and be able to discuss and show your knowledge of mechanics at hand. That is what impresses me. Talking about who you know, and how fast you can DPS a boss means nada to me. And honestly, it makes me cringe.

Well if you can't even do a proper rotation on a stationary boss you surely won't be able to in hectic fights.
So cringe all you want, being able to do something on a solo build is not impressive at all, and has no use in a trial.

I would rather take a role player with me into vMoL than someone who thinks soloing group content with 5K DPS for hours is a skillful thing. At least that person would provide something useful for the team.