Grind zergs making Dolmen's boring.

Tapio75
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As if it was not enough, that these zerg herds were allready ruining some of the quest areas by killing everything and spamming abilities, creating lag and all sorts of unenjoyable mayhem, now tthey do this in every dolmen as well.. Almost any time of the day, these are infested with players who really dont even play but smash a aoe button while watching a TV.

These Dolmens would be much better with just couple of players doing them, at most 4, otherwwise there are too many..

Now.. I do understand that some players are too bored with quests to do them and PVP does not grant good xp as far as i know.. Then if you want to do dungeons, you seem to be required to be at least level 50, otherwise elitist jerks will kick you out.
Now, we need some solutions, make dolmens and questing great again.. Perphaps we could improve the group finder to be more robust, give extra XP and items or other useful rewards on finish, also we could improve the way kicking people is handled but this is problematic, even with kick vote, people dont care enough to actually think if the kick is justified, they just click accept and go on.

In my mind, the group finder would be the best solution to give players other AND faster means to level to 50, greatly add XP, give finishing reward XP each time one is finished, improve the search options so people find groups faster and more easily.

It would not hurt, to also grant more XP from completing any mission, especially side quests seem to give very litle XP, that killing a mob gives, should be reduced by 1/3, in best grinding spots some more to make mob grinding unviable.

I want these zergs out of my sight ;)
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  • runagate
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    I wonder what the player cap is?

    If you go to a dolmen alone, there's 3 to 6 mobs at a time average. If more people show up, more daedra show up. Imagine if the number of daedra really scaled to the number of players, regardless of how many showed up? That'd be interesting.

    What's funny is that newbies probably don't realize dolmens are easy, but if one max CP person is there and then 5 level 20 people occasionally heavy attacking with a greatsword, those 5 newbies are going to get killed over and over due to the number of daedra showing up.

    Dolmens in Cyrodiil are the way to go. If you log an alt off at one in the middle of nowhere it'll spawn pretty much every time you log that character in and you can quickly farm quite a lot of coldfire siege. Even if you don't want them they sell for something like 10k.
  • Sheva I 7 I
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    they are not doing those dolmens for xp, they are farming them for the sets.
  • Tapio75
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    @runagate

    They dont scale very far.. I know that now one magicka build dragonknight in light armor can easily solo one alone, its fun, then more people come up, there is a number where it still eels good but when zergs come in, it stops being fun and i dont think they scale to more than 6 players at most. The zergs also pose a FPS drop issue for low perfoormance machines that makes them just spam some aoe since they cant do anything else in 10 fps mode.

    Still, the best solution i see is to make group finder work as means of leveling uyp, i was against it in WOW but due this games characteristics, it would be good here.

    @Sheva I 7 I

    Then, these sets need to drop in dungeons as well or give them as rewards for people not to do them..

    Besides apeople i talked at Dolmens, almost all say, that they do it to quickly level to 50.


    Hmm.. Now that i think of it, an idea comes to my mind..

    What if, there would be a selection of "World instance" you get to play in.. There would be this normal like it is now, and immersive instance where farming is and zerging is punishable by removing right to be at immersive instance.. Not very strict though but still something that way, an instance of world where certain degree of immersion is required as consideration for all players.

    Would also be lovely to RP folks and for those that think world is too populated because that sort of instance would be lightly populated compared to normal i think.. Would not require any more or less server capacity as there are allready many instances of any area, all they need is to add flags to them to make player be in certain iunstance.

    Edited by Tapio75 on January 29, 2017 4:07PM
    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • Woodenplank
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    I agree very much - dolmens (and occasionally Overland Bosses) have gotten to be somewhat of a chore, because of how farmed they are.

    Believe me though, I do think One Tamriel generally made the game better! Previously Dolmens and Overland bosses were (at most) done once per character, for the initial XP. And then people never really cared (only roleplayers hunting Daedra, or whatever).
    But with Zone Sets introduced, they're more than worth the hassle (unless you get stuff with Prosperous on it), the issue arrises when there are 15-20 people waiting at every dolmen, and even the hulking flesh giants (which do look intimidating, kudos to whomever designed them) go down in seconds. Molag Bal's daedric invasion just doesn't seem very serious when the few daedra he sends in get chopped up in seconds.

    As @runagate pointed out, simply raising the number/strength of daedra will punish new players heavily.

    @ZOS Maybe make the daedra (at least the Boss editions) have resistance to damage scaling to number of players, and give them some more deadly mechanics (RED ZONES ALL OVER!) so that they don't one-shot low levels, but still seem like an actual danger that doesn't get zerged down in all of ten seconds.
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  • KochDerDamonen
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    Dolmens get farmed like this because they spawn in a nice predictable way, offer more experience with less downside to having more players, and they are also done for dailies and jewelry.

    World bosses and other events could do with some improving to make them as tantalizing as dolmens.
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  • Prof_Bawbag
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    they are not doing those dolmens for xp, they are farming them for the sets.

    How do they do that? The ones I mostly see are situated on rocks etc and are nowhere near the chests. They're also usually level 40ish and low CP.
  • Eleusian
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    Some people are never happy , there are only a couple maps people farm sets , and a couple Dohlmens people AFK farm xp. Avoid them it's easier to change your behavior than changing the game.

    Should have played at launch and had to solo all the content on the Gold zones.
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  • ArchMikem
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    Tapio75 wrote: »
    Now, we need some solutions, make dolmens and questing great again..

    That slogan is getting really old really fast.

    I understand OP, the Zergs are 99% sure there for the set pieces, mainly the Jewelry that drop in the chests, and since the Purple Jewelry drop so lightly, the zergs aren't going away anytime soon. This happens whenever ZOS introduces new content. When the New Year Festival started that one area in Eastmarch turned into a Guaranteed crash zone, not to mention every location that held an event for the daily quest was a mad house. And since you can only get these new jewelry set pieces at Dolmens, they too will be mad houses for a long while.
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  • Mojmir
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    they are not doing those dolmens for xp, they are farming them for the sets.

    How do they do that? The ones I mostly see are situated on rocks etc and are nowhere near the chests. They're also usually level 40ish and low CP.

    Dolmens drop jewelry,which you can't get anywhere else in overland. Some zones have good rotation on dolmens resetting and they are located close to wayshrines.
    Edited by Mojmir on January 29, 2017 6:09PM
  • Tapio75
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    So many bad suggestion like "Avoid dolmens" is just.. Well, bad.

    If you want to do Dolmens, you cant avoid them. It also seems to be that no matter where i go, people are always there and they are mostly NOT farming sets as i told before, all that respons say, that they want to level 50 fast. some say they farm sets but it is minority.

    I am not really interested that much of WHY people do them, i just want the zergs to be gone, forever..

    Mechanics need to change, Dolmens need not be for dailies, they should not drop sets if thats what makes them so crowded and so forth.

    I see no justification to encourage AFK playstyles or playstyles that affect some other players negatively.

    I think the set farming needs to change, maybe move them to dungeons or sell them on a vendor for some gold.

    Best solution would be to move leveling players to dungeons, away from sights, these zergs contribute nothing to fun. I mean i cant even understand why people "play" while being afk, thats just stupid, you should do something better on your time than sit and watch tv while you waste bandwidth to afking.

    Anyway, i just did a Dolmen with 6 people. Even 6 seems to be too much, the enemies pose no challenge at all, no danger.
    Edited by Tapio75 on January 29, 2017 6:18PM
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  • Taleof2Cities
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    @Tapio75, what is your purpose in doing dolmens?

    Because why not just change to a different zone that has Dolmens but no Zerg running around?

    As one other forum-goer pointed out, you can go to a low population Cyrodiil campaign and solo dolmens for as long as you want the grind session to be.

    Curious ... because your purpose at the dolmens must be important enough to start a thread about it.
  • vyndral13preub18_ESO
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    The age old MMO question. How to make something worth doing, so people do it. But not make it worth enough, that everyone does it. Good luck.

    First rule of MMO land. People go where the rewards are. Sure there are those special snowflakes out there, but over all, a large portion of the population goes to whatever gives the best reward. Be it the easiest way to get purple jewelry or the easiest way to exp during an event with bonus xp.
  • Tapio75
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    At least if these rewards would be in an dungeon by group finder, they would not bother players who want to do them for the sake of the fight.

    Besides the Dolmenns are just too easy way to get good items, i mean you should do something else than AFK to get those good items, something which reequires you to learn your class to at some basic level.

    The drop rate as far as i have seen for purples is not that bad at all and even if ir was, you get good items for no effort, not good.

    The problem with me is, that i dont want to just do Dolmens, i want to attack invasion of Molag Bal where ever that happens, if there is no anchor or scouting party, i will help nearby villagers.

    I have also recently went throgh all Dolmens with couple of characters to get the achievment and some travels at the same time unlocking few wayshrines here and there, where ever i go, the zerg is there. It has basically been 1 out of 10 times when i have been able to get some enjoyment out of destroying anchors.

    Oh how i wish the only way to get gear was through crafting, that way at least item farming would go away and crafters wwould have something profitable to do plus the economy would be better wwithout free drops you sell for gold.

    Maybe on solution would be to introduce jewelcrafting allready, remove set drops completely and just add crafting stations here and there to make these sets.
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  • CMFan1966
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    Okay, maybe I'm going to sound stupid or like a newbie, but I do the dolmen for FUN! And because it's fun, sometimes I'll do them more than once. At my level (44), most of the stuff dropped or in the chest at the end isn't going to carry me through the rest of the game and I'll end up selling it or deconning it. I do like collecting treasure maps and sometimes I get those.

    So, yes, I'll linger at a DA and wait for it to drop so I can beat the crap out of monsters bigger than me....not because I'm farming or grinding, but because I'm having a heck of a good time! And I want to do every DA in the game. I am just playing through going for Cadwell's Gold so you never know where I might show up.

    I'm not trying to nitpick or fight, but why play a game if it has stopped being fun?
  • Tapio75
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    CMFan1966 wrote: »
    Okay, maybe I'm going to sound stupid or like a newbie, but I do the dolmen for FUN! And because it's fun, sometimes I'll do them more than once. At my level (44), most of the stuff dropped or in the chest at the end isn't going to carry me through the rest of the game and I'll end up selling it or deconning it. I do like collecting treasure maps and sometimes I get those.

    So, yes, I'll linger at a DA and wait for it to drop so I can beat the crap out of monsters bigger than me....not because I'm farming or grinding, but because I'm having a heck of a good time! And I want to do every DA in the game. I am just playing through going for Cadwell's Gold so you never know where I might show up.

    I'm not trying to nitpick or fight, but why play a game if it has stopped being fun?

    If you ask me, you are doing it right if you just do it for fun.

    I also want to do them for fun but the zergs take away the feel of fight, in the worst situations, you cant even land a hit if you play "properly".

    I want to do them still, but i dont want so many there.

    Perphaps they actually need to be randomised so that one cant do any rotation on them. They clearly are too predictable because the zerg is almpost always there just before the anchor even activates.
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  • TARAFRAKA
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    Sounds like you need to play a single player game.
  • Prof_Bawbag
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    Mojmir wrote: »
    they are not doing those dolmens for xp, they are farming them for the sets.

    How do they do that? The ones I mostly see are situated on rocks etc and are nowhere near the chests. They're also usually level 40ish and low CP.

    Dolmens drop jewelry,which you can't get anywhere else in overland. Some zones have good rotation on dolmens resetting and they are located close to wayshrines.

    I know that. But the majority of these people who sit a dolmens never move from the rock or high ground they're sitting spamming their heavy attacks. How do they open these chests? Their characters literally don't move from where they get left and as far as I'm aware chest contents don't get put straight into your inventory until you press the action button on the chest.
  • waterfairy
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    Stay away from alikr dolmens during peak hours
  • AFrostWolf
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    Monsters need to scale per player.
    Finally boss needs to scale to players in the radius. It should have easily 10M health for the number of players that Zerg them.

    I think the bosses need to be like the Imperial City bosses if there any enough players, with massive aoes damage ECT. Make it a challenge when it's zerged.
  • UrQuan
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    IMO an ideal solution would be to make the little area around a dolmen instanced with a population cap of something like 24. If you approach it in a group, then your group gets its own instance regardless of the size of the group (a 2-man group gets its own instance, and so does a 24-man group). If you approach it solo then you get put in an "open" instance along with up to 23 other people who approached it solo. If more than 24 people approach it solo, then a new instance forms for the 25th and subsequent people.

    Some thought would have to be put into things like how the dolmen should appear from outside the instanced area when there's already 1 or more instances of it going on with people fighting...
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  • KerinKor
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    Eleusian wrote: »
    Should have played at launch and had to solo all the content on the Gold zones.
    Oh God, yes, took me an age to clear them all when there was me and maybe one other in a zone much of the time .. except for the VR12->VR14s farming the VR10 mobs at the end of the last faction zones.
  • Beardimus
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    Agreed @Prof_Bawbag I've seen that too. Up on rocks spamming weopon attacks at the dolmen steps. Assume thats 'Rubber banding' right?
    Surely that would take like FOREVER to level. XP is good for first clear but not for multiple
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  • Tapio75
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    Yes, i played even at beta and the times when dolmen had meaningful challenge were the best dolmen times ever. I prefer soloing them any time over that massive zerg stupidity. Besides before one Tamriel, you could too easily solo them at cap as they did not scale up to your level, that was stupid too but then again, it was nice doing them at level with just few other players.

    And even at that time period, the veteran players almost always made the low level dolmens to be just a joke of a game. if you dont want to fight something that does bite back and bites well, you should not be getting any rewards at all.




    AFrostWolf wrote: »
    Monsters need to scale per player.
    Finally boss needs to scale to players in the radius. It should have easily 10M health for the number of players that Zerg them.

    I think the bosses need to be like the Imperial City bosses if there any enough players, with massive aoes damage ECT. Make it a challenge when it's zerged.

    Monsters need to scale better to player numbers, the idea of DA instance is good, but the open instance should be for 4 players at most since currently, if there are even 6 players, they go down ridiculously easy.

    That and the group finder as leveling option AND achors need to drop randomly to prevent systematic rotation which feels almost as bad as using bots.

    Been at least once in every dolmen exept Cyro today, every single one has been zerg infested, more than 10 players alwas, more that 20 many times as well.. If i really want to hit something, i need to lower myself to the level of these vermin and start spamming some ability or light attacks. Really sad.

    Im glad the achievment is now done, but im also angry and frustrated to know, that when ever one drops, i cant go there and enjoy myself with couple of friends or solo, i have to stay awway as going there poses no enjoyment as they are now and that removes one aspect of the game completely.

    That delve boss farming was fixed after launch, now its time to fix dolmen farming.

    Edited by Tapio75 on January 29, 2017 9:11PM
    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • Saturn
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    they are not doing those dolmens for xp, they are farming them for the sets.

    A lot of people do them for XP, actually, which is kind of sad, since the xp really isn't that great compared to other things.


    I agree that it's getting ridiculous, a few days ago I was in Alik'r and maybe 60 people were all running in a single file towards a dolmen, spamming all their abilities and whatnot, lagging everyone out. I really do miss the days before One Tamriel, since I am part of the lowest populated alliance and never had to deal with this amount of people in an Overworld zone before. Rawl'kha is even worse, usually housing 2-300 people in that tiny city. Personally I think they should limit the number of people in a phase to much lower, it might also help with the terrible performance. I know that from the start the devs were saying it was possible to have over 100 people on screen at the same time, and while that was cool at first, it is starting to become obvious how much the game is straining to keep up with all of that. I mean individually loading every single person might be why super low framerate in cities has become a stable with ESO now... I keep hoping they will do something about it with Homestead, but the PTS patches seem to indicate "No".
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  • Tapio75
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    @Saturn

    Yeah, i allready am afraid of the zerg that will be present on the door of my apartment when everyone is going to their home and the constant clanking of door which also happens.

    Many places are having too many players in an instance, i am also suffering from the low fps at largely populated cities and worst dolmens get to 15 which in the other hand is not a materr anymore as id rather run away than spam and try to hit somethiing.
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  • UrQuan
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    Tapio75 wrote: »
    Monsters need to scale better to player numbers, the idea of DA instance is good, but the open instance should be for 4 players at most since currently, if there are even 6 players, they go down ridiculously easy.
    I'd like them to scale better for more players. I think the scaling is fine for low numbers of players, but when there are larger numbers there you're absolutely right that they just go down so easily. I kind of feel like it would be easier to get the scaling right if they were instanced.

    I also think that "more mobs to kill" isn't necessarily the way to go with scaling them up when there are more players there, as it means nothing when the mobs instantly die to countless AOEs before they can do anything. Buff the health and/or resistances of the mobs based on the number of players there, as well as increasing the numbers of them. That goes quadruple for the boss - during the Witches Festival I saw dolmen bosses melt to death before they had even fully appeared, just because of the shear number of AOEs people put down on the spawn point. That shouldn't be possible.
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  • AFrostWolf
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    Tapio75 wrote: »
    Monsters need to scale better to player numbers, the idea of DA instance is good, but the open instance should be for 4 players at most since currently, if there are even 6 players, they go down ridiculously easy.
    I'd like them to scale better for more players. I think the scaling is fine for low numbers of players, but when there are larger numbers there you're absolutely right that they just go down so easily. I kind of feel like it would be easier to get the scaling right if they were instanced.

    I also think that "more mobs to kill" isn't necessarily the way to go with scaling them up when there are more players there, as it means nothing when the mobs instantly die to countless AOEs before they can do anything. Buff the health and/or resistances of the mobs based on the number of players there, as well as increasing the numbers of them. That goes quadruple for the boss - during the Witches Festival I saw dolmen bosses melt to death before they had even fully appeared, just because of the shear number of AOEs people put down on the spawn point. That shouldn't be possible.

    Right on. I'm not a fan of instances because I like to see a populated world. But they need more mobs per player that has more health/resistance. And bosses should be like the IC bosses when zerged.
  • Tapio75
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    How about having low population, medium population and high population instances of the whole world isntead of having everyone in "same" mode.

    Then people could select what sort of world they want. This should not be too hard either with current system..

    And i do agree that the mobs should have more health and res BUT they also need to have more bite when talking about large numbers.


    IC bosses are good way to go.

    But over all, i think the first and most important thing, is to make dolmen rotation impossible. Randomising the every anchor so nobody can get a pattern would stop the worst farming, that could be enough alone at first, then the harder mode with more players.
    Edited by Tapio75 on January 29, 2017 10:01PM
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  • Tapio75
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    Hmm, one chest a day/Dolmen.. That could be something. Even if its not really harder, you cant just stay and gather these chests the whole day..

    Same with XP, like with fighters guild XP per anchor, greatly diminished after first downing of dolmen.

    Sadly the "Too many players" issue is not present only at dolmens, its in delves as wwell.. Its not as bad as it was on the launch day, but whenever i go to delve, the places are killed empty, either i have to wait or run through the whole place with nothing to kill.. Then have to stand in "que" for the delve boss if you want any type of meaningful fight, there is always someoine waitin for a boss spawn and the worst is, that while Dolmens are designed to small groups, delves CLEARLY are designed for single player experience judging from strenth of everything inside.
    Edited by Tapio75 on January 29, 2017 11:10PM
    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • Woodenplank
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    Of course, you could perhaps (as an alternative to, or as an addition) make a model like seen in Wrothgar dailies.

    Just have someone (like Fighter's Guild leaders, for lore-accuracy) provide bounties for dolmens (like 3 or so a-day per character) in different zones. Completing the quests then gives "Fighter's Guild Compensation" which is a small coffer with a random dolmen'ish reward.

    How's that for size?

    (P.S. I still think scaling the durability of the daedra to number of players would be fine, as it does make the dolmens more entertaining IMO).
    Edited by Woodenplank on January 29, 2017 11:57PM
    I think it is central to ESO's well-being to critique the developers when they change the game (or fail to change something).
    But the negativity can be exhausting, so I vow to post 50/50 negativity and appreciation.
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