Cash grabs and the decline of ESO

Spottswoode · January 2017

SaRuZ wrote: »

Comparing Zenimax Media Inc. to Wal Mart is a very bad example. Wal Mart bases it's shut downs on volume, region & theft. There are thousands of Wal Mart stores. Also one is a retail industry that supplies a variety of perishable & non perishable goods while the other is considered an Art industry in itself. That's like comparing Applebees to Death Row Records. Apples & Oranges.

Also, If they were passionate about their art and about this game they would be pursuing that passion out of love for the game. Am I against items being in the crown store? No. Am I against this game steadily becoming more and more of a Sims wannabe for Cash? Yes.

That being said producing real content(Expansion packs with new zones, classes, questlines) Is a better way to keep their jobs Keeping players playing. Keeping new players coming in and staying. Keeping population high and content flow to match is the better strategy.

Walmart operates on profit of about 3-5% like most retailers. (And in this case, it's specifically the lowest number) When profits drop 3-5% the store isn't making any money.

But, no , I totally think that retail workers are exactly qualified to be game developers. There's absolutely no difference in the resources, skills, and industry knowledge between the two of them.
They are both sales driven enterprises and that was the point in mentioning it. But let's get caught up in semantics in analogies.

The Crown Store goods are overpriced. This doesn't necessarily make it ZOS's fault, nor does it make the company greedy. And I think we pretty much all agree we'd much rather spend the money they make from it on fixing game issues. But the shiny little crap products are the item for sale now. It's what you get from f2p/b2p.

Dawnblade · January 2017

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me, or you. They only care about our wallets.

Its not the developers. The Developers have no say in the price of things. Theyre there to make a game that they love. This is on the sales team. The suits that have nothing to do with the game itself besides new ideas on how to pinch the customer for just that little bit more next time.

Most likely financial types and MBAs are responsible for monetizing the Zenimax asset known as ESO, and likely most of the earnings from cash shop sales flow directly back to the parent and not to the budget for the game.

Spottswoode · January 2017

Thank you.

Mx13 · January 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Soafee wrote: »

Everything in the Store is optional. You do not need to even pay for the game to play it. They do not require you to buy a sub.

If you're not willing to support a game that you play countless hours than maybe another game would be better for you. You basically say "this is how I see things and if ZOS locks my thread than I'm right!"

Well you have your opinion but you're not 'right'. How do you expect the game to evolve or more content to be made for us if they literally give it away for free? Are you mad because you won't be able to afford it? Ok. Lots of people will and it will make up for it and you can keep doing what you do.

There's giving content away for free, then there's pricing it like a reasonable person.

25 dollars for two dungeons that half the playerbase never does anymore (Shadows of the Hist) wasn't reasonable when it was released. They have shown no inclination of becoming more reasonable.

Hate the OP if you wish but lets not kid ourselves, I doubt ZOS is satisfied with "Support" anymore. The shareholders grow impatient.

*14.99 dollars for two dungeons.

MythicEmperor · January 2017

Soafee wrote: »

Everything in the Store is optional. You do not need to even pay for the game to play it. They do not require you to buy a sub.

If you're not willing to support a game that you play countless hours than maybe another game would be better for you. You basically say "this is how I see things and if ZOS locks my thread than I'm right!"

Well you have your opinion but you're not 'right'. How do you expect the game to evolve or more content to be made for us if they literally give it away for free? Are you mad because you won't be able to afford it? Ok. Lots of people will and it will make up for it and you can keep doing what you do.

Actually, I don't care about the motif. It is quite ugly, and if I did want it, I'd buy it with gold. Or farm nMoL. Easy.

About not supporting the game, it is quite the opposite. I am an ESO+ member. I paid the sub before it was dropped. I buy crowns as often as I can to support the game. I don't buy overpriced items that are clearly a noob-trap, however. This is just dirty. Any experience player would know how easy the motif is to get if you actually wanted it.

The issue is, as stated in my post, is that I don't like the precedent they've set by pricing an item over 5500 crowns. This means now they can price things (like houses) upwards of 10k, which will require several crown packs, and these prices will be ridiculous.

Jim_Pipp · January 2017

Much wow. Lots of people missing the point by saying "crown stores's optional" and "zos can charge what they want". While that is true it is not the point of the thread. I thought the OP was speaking on behalf of a lot of people who want ESO to succeed and want to support ZOS but who feel ripped off by the laughably excessive pricing.

It's not entitlementioned, it is frustration because clearly overpriced crown items make players choose between supporting the game or having the self respect not to be ripped off.

Even if you disagree, the OP is absolutely right about one thing. Some players are turned off of the game if they feel ripped off, and in the long run that will hurt the game too.

inflaburwb17_ESO · January 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me, or you. They only care about our wallets.

SHEEP ?
Because not everyone is a complete business-illiterate, social justice warrior wannabe, you call those that understand that ESO is not a charity non-profit, SHEEP?

To you and the OP : So you have to grind for a house. At least ZOS gives you the option of getting a house with either Crowns or Gold. Imagine how quickly everyone would get over Homestead and of course start demanding the next content update, if you could just have a house by snapping your fingers. The novelty of having a house would be over in 48 hours, you will have NO feeling of appreciation when you finally get it, and you'd start complaining in the forums about the lack of content, etc etc.

SaRuZ wrote: »

I love how everybody is defending ZoS greed. You already purchased the game to play it, that's supporting it enough.

Oh and please stop acting like ZoS is only doing this to keep the lights on. This isn't a Kickstarter funded game or company. Their parent company Zenimax Media Inc. whom created a small subsidiary consisting of around 300 employees called Zenimax Online Studios in 2007 solely to develop ESO and only ESO.

Zenimax Media Inc. is valued at 2.6 Billion USD. I love how the Dro-m'Artha is up in the crown store three days after they hotfixed the trial Lol.

You want to LOL like what you just spewed is such an insightful, yet obvious, contribution. Now tell me. Valued at 2.6 Billion USD. Does this mean ESO should stop contributing to Zenimax Media's revenue? Or does it mean that, since the company is valued at 2.6 Billion USD, ESO can now run at a loss, and the parent company will happily, year after year, just carry this non performing, non income contributing, division/subsidiary?

Do you think the initial income from the game purchase is enough to sustain ESO indefinitely, keeping it profitable and viable?

No one is defending "ZoS greed". What they are trying to do instead is to convey to people like you the reason and the need for ZoS to ensure that ESO remains profitable so that Zenimax Media Inc, whom "created a small subsidiary consisting of around 300 employees called Zenimax Online Studios in 2007 solely to develop ESO and only ESO" doesn't decide to pull the plug on an endeavour running at a loss.

Aftherthought : I'm going to go out on a limb and say the biggest contributors to the "ZOS greed", anti-Crown store, anti-effort to earn anything" arguments so prevalent in the forums lately, are folks falling within a certain age group. A generation who believe everyone should get participation medals in sport instead of gold-silver-bronze for the top 3. The 3 that worked hard to achieve the top spots instead of sitting around complaining about the unfairness of life. A generation of self-entitlement who where never taught the value and rewards of having to work for anything.

andreasranasen · January 2017

inflaburwb17_ESO wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me, or you. They only care about our wallets.

SHEEP ?
Because not everyone is a complete business-illiterate, social justice warrior wannabe, you call those that understand that ESO is not a charity non-profit, SHEEP?

To you and the OP : So you have to grind for a house. At least ZOS gives you the option of getting a house with either Crowns or Gold. Imagine how quickly everyone would get over Homestead and of course start demanding the next content update, if you could just have a house by snapping your fingers. The novelty of having a house would be over in 48 hours, you will have NO feeling of appreciation when you finally get it, and you'd start complaining in the forums about the lack of content, etc etc.

SaRuZ wrote: »

I love how everybody is defending ZoS greed. You already purchased the game to play it, that's supporting it enough.

Oh and please stop acting like ZoS is only doing this to keep the lights on. This isn't a Kickstarter funded game or company. Their parent company Zenimax Media Inc. whom created a small subsidiary consisting of around 300 employees called Zenimax Online Studios in 2007 solely to develop ESO and only ESO.

Zenimax Media Inc. is valued at 2.6 Billion USD. I love how the Dro-m'Artha is up in the crown store three days after they hotfixed the trial Lol.

You want to LOL like what you just spewed is such an insightful, yet obvious, contribution. Now tell me. Valued at 2.6 Billion USD. Does this mean ESO should stop contributing to Zenimax Media's revenue? Or does it mean that, since the company is valued at 2.6 Billion USD, ESO can now run at a loss, and the parent company will happily, year after year, just carry this non performing, non income contributing, division/subsidiary?

Do you think the initial income from the game purchase is enough to sustain ESO indefinitely, keeping it profitable and viable?

No one is defending "ZoS greed". What they are trying to do instead is to convey to people like you the reason and the need for ZoS to ensure that ESO remains profitable so that Zenimax Media Inc, whom "created a small subsidiary consisting of around 300 employees called Zenimax Online Studios in 2007 solely to develop ESO and only ESO" doesn't decide to pull the plug on an endeavour running at a loss.

Aftherthought : I'm going to go out on a limb and say the biggest contributors to the "ZOS greed", anti-Crown store, anti-effort to earn anything" arguments so prevalent in the forums lately, are folks falling within a certain age group. A generation who believe everyone should get participation medals in sport instead of gold-silver-bronze for the top 3. The 3 that worked hard to achieve the top spots instead of sitting around complaining about the unfairness of life. A generation of self-entitlement who where never taught the value and rewards of having to work for anything.

LOL...

idk · January 2017

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me, or you. They only care about our wallets.

Its not the developers. The Developers have no say in the price of things. Theyre there to make a game that they love. This is on the sales team. The suits that have nothing to do with the game itself besides new ideas on how to pinch the customer for just that little bit more next time.

This is so correct. Business people, ironically with business metrics related to cash shop sales make the decisions here. Even the choice that the crafting bag was an ESO+ perk was a business decision.

kessik221 · January 2017

What are you guys bitching about? Anything sold on the crown store except cosmetic costumes can be farmed quite easily. Its not like they are selling vet titles. Be happy you dont have to pay a subscription like most aaa title mmos. If you think THESE are the real problems with the game you got some funked up priorities.

Pops_ND_Irish · January 2017

Send mats and gold !

Messy1 · January 2017

ZOS is totally taking advantage of the Elder Scrolls brand name and unfortunately people will pay the high prices fir digital goods and seines because of it. As discerning players we need to boycott things that are reprehensible, but, well, that's very hard.

geonsocal · January 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I've stopped reguarding this game as a "game". It's a RP platform.
I genuinely dont care anymore. I dont have the passion, I dont have the energy. I spend my day playing single player elder scrolls games, astounded at the tonal shfit. No longer does what I'm doing feel forced, like I'm forcing myself to try and enjoy mself. No. I just have fun.

gotta give it to you mythic, good job at getting folks to open up...you should have like a talk show or something

yes, the game's "shift of focus"...who's too really say (who would say?), who knows what zos' plan/strategy has been at any given point...

what you said @Doctordarkspawn is definitely a very real thing...personally, i'm hard headed enough to primarily move at only one speed - my own

Lylith · January 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Soafee wrote: »

Everything in the Store is optional. You do not need to even pay for the game to play it. They do not require you to buy a sub.

If you're not willing to support a game that you play countless hours than maybe another game would be better for you. You basically say "this is how I see things and if ZOS locks my thread than I'm right!"

Well you have your opinion but you're not 'right'. How do you expect the game to evolve or more content to be made for us if they literally give it away for free? Are you mad because you won't be able to afford it? Ok. Lots of people will and it will make up for it and you can keep doing what you do.

Actually, I don't care about the motif. It is quite ugly, and if I did want it, I'd buy it with gold. Or farm nMoL. Easy.

About not supporting the game, it is quite the opposite. I am an ESO+ member. I paid the sub before it was dropped. I buy crowns as often as I can to support the game. I don't buy overpriced items that are clearly a noob-trap, however. This is just dirty. Any experience player would know how easy the motif is to get if you actually wanted it.

The issue is, as stated in my post, is that I don't like the precedent they've set by pricing an item over 5500 crowns. This means now they can price things (like houses) upwards of 10k, which will require several crown packs, and these prices will be ridiculous.

agreed.

additionally, the way they've methodically racked up pricing on costumes and mounts over the last year is just...<snip>ed

Ozstryker · January 2017

Hey... There's nothing wrong with the Breton Hero Armour....!

Sausage · January 2017

Decline? really? Last Steam weekend they gained almost 500k new players, so obviously theres still massive buzz around ESO. Yes its true, I checked it it was about 520k before free Weekend and now its almost 1 mill. Unless some big MMORPG comes, we are IT, and there isnt any big MMORPG coming in next couple year at least.

My suggestion is before spreading doom and gloom, you relax and play Conan Exiles its totally different beast.

Darkonflare15 · January 2017

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Much wow. Lots of people missing the point by saying "crown stores's optional" and "zos can charge what they want". While that is true it is not the point of the thread. I thought the OP was speaking on behalf of a lot of people who want ESO to succeed and want to support ZOS but who feel ripped off by the laughably excessive pricing.

It's not entitlementioned, it is frustration because clearly overpriced crown items make players choose between supporting the game or having the self respect not to be ripped off.

Even if you disagree, the OP is absolutely right about one thing. Some players are turned off of the game if they feel ripped off, and in the long run that will hurt the game too.

It not that people are missing the point. I think a lot people understand the point. I just think they do not care or they have a different opinion than you. Honestly players on these forums outrage about every little thing. Yes this is a little thing to me. Being mad that they raise the price of a motif that can be gained ingame from playing a endgame trial or bought from another player by trade. This is something you have to work towards or use your gold that you earn in game to get. Now you can get the luxury of by passing game mechanics by using real money and you do not have to pay for the thevies guild dlc to get it. I can support the game and never feel ripped off because I can get this motif in game. This is nothing. Crown store crate items and other cosmetics that I cannot get in game and they over price makes sense getting mad but something like this that is just a cosmetic that can be earn ingame and not really doing harm in game is not much to really fret over.

Sausage · January 2017

The Rolling Stones -- Doom And Gloom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPFGWVKXxm0

Turelus · January 2017

Generally I have learned that the games industry is going to go for money rather than integrity.

I quit ESO when the Crown Crates came out partially in protest of them, partially in burnout from the issues the game was facing and lastly because I had some RL stuff bringing me down.

I actually regret leaving now, I missed two seasonal events which I may never get achievements for any more as well as some great improvements to the game.

The easiest way to discourage this kind of behaviour is to simply not buy the items. Even if it's that super shiny must have rare dragon mount for 20,000 Crowns. You just don't buy it.

Otherwise accept this is a game that needs income, accept that ZOS/Zenimax Media are not interested in integrity when it comes to the cash shop, and play the game for the parts you enjoy.
None of the Crown Store stuff has any baring on how much fun you can have within the game running its content, so put one some blinkers, grab some friends and go have some fun.

Also I guess I should just say "BAAAAAAAAAA *munches grass*" to make @andreasranasen happy.

Cyrediath · January 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Before I start, this is not an "ESO is dead!!!" Thread. It obviously isn't. I am simply going to point out flaws that will lead to its desertion if the trend continues.

Lets start in the beginning. When the crown store was announced, many were skeptical, and rightly so. At the time, I was blind to their arguments. I was foolish enough to believe that ZOS had our best interests in mind. This is the first MMO I ever played obsessively, as I came from the single player games.

As time went on, I began to notice some trends. They started out small, and almost insignificant. The Breton Hero costume was the first sign of the future. It was shoddily made and was basically falsly advertised as you couldn't see the revolting cloak physics. It made your head look like a potato, yet I bought it. I had been wanting to look like that since the cinematic trailers first released. I though "Ok, I am sure ZOS will fix it. They want to keep us happy, right?" I was naive.

A time after that, things took a turn for the worse (and boy did it get worse). Crown Crates were announced, and many, including me, were horrified. I didn't think ZOS would ever do such a thing. I thought that the Breton Hero costume was their all-time low. I was wrong. Many, like me, took to the forums to voice our opinions. If I ever wanted ZOS to listen, it was then. They can screw over my class. I'll play an alt. They can screw over the set I spent days getting good traits on. I'll get new gear. Crates were different. They were a blow to the integrity of the game that will never be fixed.

I have been wanting housing since I found out you couldn't buy one. When homestead was announced, I was ecstatic. I still had a spark, a tiny ounce of hope left in me that ZOS would make the right decision. I thought surely this would make up for failures like the elk.

Now that the dust settles, I can see this for what it is. I thought that this would be redemption, but it is just another cash grab. The Dro'Mathra motif price only confirms my fears. When the gold prices were released, I was shocked. I never had been that rich, and I most certainly will not be able to afford the manors for a long time. That is not the problem.

The issue is that they will be on the crown store. If not for this factor, I am positive that they would be at least half of the cost. Why? ZOS wants you to say "screw this gold grind" and give in. They want you to hand them your money in exchange for your shiny new title. This is wrong. They decentivise gameplay and hard work in favor of taking your money. To make matters worse, they have set a hideous precedent. This is the first time something has been priced above the 5.5k crown pack. Now, the houses are subject to the same disgrace.

If a purely cosmetic motif that isn't even as nice as some cheaper crown store motifs is 6k crowns, what will a manor cost? 10k? 20k? They houses are just as useless as the motif. You can't do anything you can't elsewhere. The only incentive for housing is the nice DPS test, which should be available for free. It is not uncommon in other MMOs to be able to find and use a target dummy for free. This is besides the point. The point is this: Housing is not ZOS' attempt to make amends with the player base. The houses are copy-pasted and the prices are high. This is another cash grab to make a buck at the expense of you.

That is all I have to say on the matter, for now. If this thread gets locked, it will only prove my point.

Every move they make, makes me quit eso. Ever single move... you are too naive to think it will be 10k-20k.

Special thing about motif is, it is the first thing that exceeds 5.500 limit so that's a start. Crown exclusives will be like 40-50k crown and manors 50-60k i am pretty sure about that (which no one will buy with crowns).

Im really suprised about pricing in crown store. They don't know that they will earn more with good amount of selling with reasonable price?

Personally i think, i can pay 10k max (70euros?) For crown exclusive and thats all. If they make medium houses 10k and say we put big ramge of houses for everyone i think its not worth it for a medium house and i wont pay any crowns. I will just buy large or 1 manor with gold and buy furnitures with gold day by day.

I see many people thinking like me. But also very few people out there will spent 50-60k crowns but they are very few. Compered to people who willing to pay around 10k for manor/crown exclusive. And zo$ will loose money again. (From amount of potential they may earn)

Crown prices are just a big no. Check the deadra motif for an example on store. And check guild store price. Its like 3k. There are racial motifs in crown store which is waaaay too much overpriced compered to guild stores. They are like 300 gold. (Three hundred) thats all. You want to buy dunmer motif thats 300 hundred just like other motifs. Who the **** pays thousands of crowns?

messiah88 · January 2017

SaRuZ wrote: »

I love how everybody is defending ZoS greed. You already purchased the game to play it, that's supporting it enough.

Oh and please stop acting like ZoS is only doing this to keep the lights on. This isn't a Kickstarter funded game or company. Their parent company Zenimax Media Inc. whom created a small subsidiary consisting of around 300 employees called Zenimax Online Studios in 2007 solely to develop ESO and only ESO.

Zenimax Media Inc. is valued at 2.6 Billion USD. I love how the Dro-m'Artha is up in the crown store three days after they hotfixed the trial Lol.

Dude.. u paid for the original game.. they need money to keep the game going. To pay those employee's to continue development. They aren't going to continue development if there is no profit in it.

Cyrediath · January 2017

messiah88 wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

I love how everybody is defending ZoS greed. You already purchased the game to play it, that's supporting it enough.

Oh and please stop acting like ZoS is only doing this to keep the lights on. This isn't a Kickstarter funded game or company. Their parent company Zenimax Media Inc. whom created a small subsidiary consisting of around 300 employees called Zenimax Online Studios in 2007 solely to develop ESO and only ESO.

Zenimax Media Inc. is valued at 2.6 Billion USD. I love how the Dro-m'Artha is up in the crown store three days after they hotfixed the trial Lol.

Dude.. u paid for the original game.. they need money to keep the game going. To pay those employee's to continue development. They aren't going to continue development if there is no profit in it.

Stop defending this **** just stop it. I bought battlefield 4 premium at release date. I just paid 50$ i guess. Premium includes game, all dlcs, premium crates regularly for free, *all future dlcs will come*, all expand packs and everything you just dont have to pay even 1 penny. And they supported battlefield 4 for a very long time and just add really awesome stuff like wars at night and all completely free. How do you think they earn money? Some people buy crates for skin and people buying game for 50$. If they sell 1 million copies thats 50 million dollars thats enough to support game for a long period of time. And also other incomes are a big plus ( marlet purchases )

So stop defending eso about this. If they make eso sub to play like 40 dollars a month you will say again "well they should make money" ???

KerinKor · January 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

They houses are just as useless as the motif

Clearly you're not one of the players housing is designed to appeal to so that's likely why you make this flawed comparison.

inflaburwb17_ESO · January 2017

Cyrediath wrote: »

messiah88 wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

I love how everybody is defending ZoS greed. You already purchased the game to play it, that's supporting it enough.

Oh and please stop acting like ZoS is only doing this to keep the lights on. This isn't a Kickstarter funded game or company. Their parent company Zenimax Media Inc. whom created a small subsidiary consisting of around 300 employees called Zenimax Online Studios in 2007 solely to develop ESO and only ESO.

Zenimax Media Inc. is valued at 2.6 Billion USD. I love how the Dro-m'Artha is up in the crown store three days after they hotfixed the trial Lol.

Dude.. u paid for the original game.. they need money to keep the game going. To pay those employee's to continue development. They aren't going to continue development if there is no profit in it.

Stop defending this **** just stop it. I bought battlefield 4 premium at release date. I just paid 50$ i guess. Premium includes game, all dlcs, premium crates regularly for free, *all future dlcs will come*, all expand packs and everything you just dont have to pay even 1 penny. And they supported battlefield 4 for a very long time and just add really awesome stuff like wars at night and all completely free. How do you think they earn money? Some people buy crates for skin and people buying game for 50$. If they sell 1 million copies thats 50 million dollars thats enough to support game for a long period of time. And also other incomes are a big plus ( marlet purchases )

So stop defending eso about this. If they make eso sub to play like 40 dollars a month you will say again "well they should make money" ???

And since Battlefield 4 was released, they also released Battlefield Hardline and Battlefield 1. All games that had to be bought to play securing revenue for EA Dice. These 3 Battlefield games has over 32 million units sold, and have spawned 13 DLC's / Battlepacks across them. Battlefield 4 is not being developed anymore, and Hardline will soon not be either.
Battlefield 4 - 13,8 million units sold
Battlefied Hardline - 4,1 million units sold
Battlefield 1 - Unconfirmed, but Morgan Stanley believes the games has now passed 15 million units sold.

ZOS has one game, still being developed and updated with free content, which cost $200 million to develop, and has had an estimated "7 million players since launch" in April 2014. 5 DLC's has been released.

So yes, I understand why ZOS would need to implement a Crown store, and charge the prices they do for things. Things which, btw, are totally optional to players.

Carbonised · January 2017

I see a disturbingly large amount of straw man arguments here repeated ad nauseam, such as "ZOS are allowed to make money", "without monetization the game wouldn't run", "you're free to not buy crown store items" and similar.

This is completely beside the point. This is irrelevant. Read the original topic again, no one is having any beef with ZOS making money off of their game, no one is arguing that Zenimax is a company that wants profit. You're bashing down straw men here, nothing else.

What some people DO have some beef with, is the fact that Zenimax ONLY seems to care about making money, and that they seem to be willing to deploy EVERY possible scheme in order to maximise their profits, no matter what - and that in the last year or so we have seen a steady increase in these cash grabs, that seem unscrupulous, cynical and calculating to many of us. If you want to debate or be polemic, THIS is the issue, NOT whether ZOS has the right to make money (which they of course do), or whether you are free to not buy items in the crown store (which you of course are).

The concern that the OP shares with me, and others here, is that the continuing effort to squeeze as much money out of customers as possible is starting to ruin the overall experience with ESO, and The Elder Scrolls as a brand in general.
When every new feature in the game is designed in such a way as to heavily encourage you to sidestep the oftentimes enormous costs and efforts involved to obtain your prize, and instead utilize the Crown Store to pay large amounts of cash for the objectives, then that is a large step in the wrong direction.
When crown prices have been steadily increasing this last year, that does indeed seem both unnecessary and greedy. When crown crates pick on the most base human psychological mechanisms, in order to squeeze out the maximum amount of money from the players involved in this gambling, that does indeed seem cynical and distasteful.
When housing and furnishing crafting has deliberately been designed to be such an enormous expense and chore as it currently is on the PTS, it does seem like a calculating design to maximise crown store purchases instead.

When a company cares less and less about making a good game, an enjoyable experience, and telling good stories through their games, and more and more about manipulating us with the lowest and most effective psychological tricks in the books in order to milk their playerbase like some sort of cattle, then that does indeed warrant a post like this one.

The relationship bewteen customer and business can be a somewhat civil one, as long as there is mutual respect and understanding. We understand that the business wants our money, and we hand it over to them because we value the product or the service. When the business is starting to become more and more aggressive, demanding more money, providing less enjoyable products and services for larger costs, of course there is going to be counter aggression and opposition.

Unfortunately, the ZOS solution to this seems to simply be inventing more and more elaborate money machines such as the upcoming housing update.

Carbonised · January 2017

Also, on the topic of F2P, monetization and cash grabbing - I highly recommend watching these youtube vids about the subject.

Do yourself a favour and at least watch a couple of them before participating in the discussion, maybe then we could get a somewhat constructive debate about the economy behind ESO, instead of the current straw man punching and mud slinging.

How Bad Monetization Harms F2P Games

Microtransactions

How High Costs Drive Players Away from F2P Games

Can We Stop Predatory Practices?

Sausage · January 2017

Everything is expensive for a poor, is that constructive enough. MMORPG genre has done so much to come to this point, theres no way in hell, they are turning back.

Cadbury · January 2017

At the end of the day, it comes down to human nature. There will still be those who buy it regardless.
The real question is...

Will you buy it?

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2017

Carbonised wrote: »

no one is having any beef with ZOS making money off of their game, no one is arguing that Zenimax is a company that wants profit
.../...
Zenimax ONLY seems to care about making money, and that they seem to be willing to deploy EVERY possible scheme in order to maximise their profits, no matter what

Where do you draw the line between "legitimately seeking profit" (aka "funding the game") and "abusively seeking profit" (aka "cash grabbing") ? That's the point.

Carbonised wrote: »

we could get a somewhat constructive debate about the economy behind ESO

No, we can't. We don't have the basic information required (cost structure, player behavior data and analysis) and revenue streams) to debate constructively about the economy behind ESO. We're left with "discussing" the above mentioned cursor between what seems legit and what seems abusive to each of us. This cannot be productive nor lead to any consent, imho.

For me it's become a game within the game. Some design decisions are pretty obvious, if not rightout transparent, some are more hidden, and for me it's ZOS' right to make money vs. my right to not buy. I lost the craft bag episode (I resubbed... ) but I won pretty much every other episode so far

MythicEmperor · January 2017

Spottswoode wrote: »

Thank you.

You're welcome.