Cash grabs and the decline of ESO

MythicEmperor · January 2017

Before I start, this is not an "ESO is dead!!!" Thread. It obviously isn't. I am simply going to point out flaws that will lead to its desertion if the trend continues.

Lets start in the beginning. When the crown store was announced, many were skeptical, and rightly so. At the time, I was blind to their arguments. I was foolish enough to believe that ZOS had our best interests in mind. This is the first MMO I ever played obsessively, as I came from the single player games.

As time went on, I began to notice some trends. They started out small, and almost insignificant. The Breton Hero costume was the first sign of the future. It was shoddily made and was basically falsly advertised as you couldn't see the revolting cloak physics. It made your head look like a potato, yet I bought it. I had been wanting to look like that since the cinematic trailers first released. I though "Ok, I am sure ZOS will fix it. They want to keep us happy, right?" I was naive.

A time after that, things took a turn for the worse (and boy did it get worse). Crown Crates were announced, and many, including me, were horrified. I didn't think ZOS would ever do such a thing. I thought that the Breton Hero costume was their all-time low. I was wrong. Many, like me, took to the forums to voice our opinions. If I ever wanted ZOS to listen, it was then. They can screw over my class. I'll play an alt. They can screw over the set I spent days getting good traits on. I'll get new gear. Crates were different. They were a blow to the integrity of the game that will never be fixed.

I have been wanting housing since I found out you couldn't buy one. When homestead was announced, I was ecstatic. I still had a spark, a tiny ounce of hope left in me that ZOS would make the right decision. I thought surely this would make up for failures like the elk.

Now that the dust settles, I can see this for what it is. I thought that this would be redemption, but it is just another cash grab. The Dro'Mathra motif price only confirms my fears. When the gold prices were released, I was shocked. I never had been that rich, and I most certainly will not be able to afford the manors for a long time. That is not the problem.

The issue is that they will be on the crown store. If not for this factor, I am positive that they would be at least half of the cost. Why? ZOS wants you to say "screw this gold grind" and give in. They want you to hand them your money in exchange for your shiny new title. This is wrong. They decentivise gameplay and hard work in favor of taking your money. To make matters worse, they have set a hideous precedent. This is the first time something has been priced above the 5.5k crown pack. Now, the houses are subject to the same disgrace.

If a purely cosmetic motif that isn't even as nice as some cheaper crown store motifs is 6k crowns, what will a manor cost? 10k? 20k? They houses are just as useless as the motif. You can't do anything you can't elsewhere. The only incentive for housing is the nice DPS test, which should be available for free. It is not uncommon in other MMOs to be able to find and use a target dummy for free. This is besides the point. The point is this: Housing is not ZOS' attempt to make amends with the player base. The houses are copy-pasted and the prices are high. This is another cash grab to make a buck at the expense of you.

That is all I have to say on the matter, for now. If this thread gets locked, it will only prove my point.

andreasranasen · January 2017

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me, or you. They only care about our wallets.

JD2013 · January 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me. They only care about my wallet.

The devs and company are not your friends. They work for and operate a business.

Harsh truth, but a truth nevertheless.

Spottswoode · January 2017

Cash shop cosmetics every 3 days was the deal when the game went F2P. This is the way they are financing the game development now. They are going to push cosmetics at ridiculous prices because that's how they make money now. You can always subscribe and at least limit the amount you spend on crowns.

Calling the company greedy for relying on sales in a sales driven format is tautological.

DRXHarbinger · January 2017

Nerf crown store hating. It funds the game.

andreasranasen · January 2017

JD2013 wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me. They only care about my wallet.

The devs and company are not your friends. They work for and operate a business.

Harsh truth, but a truth nevertheless.

As a Senior Designer in Los Angeles with clients such as Warner Bros INJUSTICE 2, Lego Star Wars and others. I don't see those clients as my friends at all. BUT I DO CARE ABOUT THEM! If a client feel that i care and i do a good job they will come back and work with me again. Your argument is terrible.

As a player, you are the client. You are paying for a service and a product.

robertthebard · January 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me. They only care about my wallet.

The devs and company are not your friends. They work for and operate a business.

Harsh truth, but a truth nevertheless.

As a Senior Designer in Los Angeles with clients such as Warner Bros INJUSTICE 2, Lego Star Wars and others. I don't see those clients as my friends at all. BUT I DO CARE ABOUT THEM! Your argument is terrible.

As a player, you are the client. You are paying for a service and a product.

Are you not receiving the service? Did they suddenly force you to have to pay where others aren't? No? Doesn't seem like they're doing anything very different from any of the other F2P with microtransaction MMOs I've been playing over the last 20 years or so. Of course, as a designer, you should probably already know that, right?

Aeladiir · January 2017

Honestly, I am surprised that people are surprised by ZOS' actions. Tbh, they're acting incredibly safe and not doing anything that other MMOs haven't done yet. Sure, I can see some Skyrim fanboys being all butthurt over these facts, but the truth is the truth - this isn't new to MMOs. This is how MMOs survive nowadays, not decline. And they've been doing it for years now. But go ahead and put #PAWS in your signature - because you're so awesome.

tl;dr
OP is butthurt about Crown Crates (just another toothpick)
OP is butthurt that housing is being used as gold sink, and that houses in Crown Store will be - persumably - more affordable, because they'll be furnished and some of them will give you titles (wow, much pay to win)
OP is very butthurt that he can't afford a worthless motif that doesn't even look that good
ZOS is an evil, money-grabbing organization that doesn't care for its playerbase (I guess that's why they introduced free updates such as champion system, justice system, one tamriel & more)

geonsocal · January 2017

Spottswoode wrote: »

Calling the company greedy for relying on sales in a sales driven format is tautological.

great use of the word tautological in a post...who'd have ever thunk someone could get that one in - if we was playing scrabble - i have a feeling you'd win

andreasranasen · January 2017

robertthebard wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me. They only care about my wallet.

The devs and company are not your friends. They work for and operate a business.

Harsh truth, but a truth nevertheless.

As a Senior Designer in Los Angeles with clients such as Warner Bros INJUSTICE 2, Lego Star Wars and others. I don't see those clients as my friends at all. BUT I DO CARE ABOUT THEM! Your argument is terrible.

As a player, you are the client. You are paying for a service and a product.

Are you not receiving the service? Did they suddenly force you to have to pay where others aren't? No? Doesn't seem like they're doing anything very different from any of the other F2P with microtransaction MMOs I've been playing over the last 20 years or so. Of course, as a designer, you should probably already know that, right?

Lately as of a couple of months now i am not receiving the service i am paying for. Lagg, dc's, broken features. So no, cashgrabs shouldn't be acceptable.

JD2013 · January 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me. They only care about my wallet.

The devs and company are not your friends. They work for and operate a business.

Harsh truth, but a truth nevertheless.

As a Senior Designer in Los Angeles with clients such as Warner Bros INJUSTICE 2, Lego Star Wars and others. I don't see them as my friends at all. BUT I DO CARE ABOUT THEM! Your argument is terrible.

As a player, you are the client.

Actually my argument isn't terrible at all. Because people have different perspectives and outlooks upon things, and one doesn't necessarily invalidate the other.

Devs may be nice with us. They interact with us. But at the end of the day, we are a number and a profit margin to any business. We are consumers. Here to consume content and items given to us.

And whilst I am on this, why, OP, would housing be an attempt to make amends? Make amends for what exactly?

Housing is purchasable for in game gold. Furniture is craftable in game. If you want a fully furnished house right off the bat with no effort, it'll cost money for the convenience of getting it all fast. It's a convenience for results without the process.

Now whilst a motif for 6,000 crowns is bad, and I agree that that is a ludicrous price for it, the motif is from an end game trial that takes effort to farm all pages. Again we are back to results without the process. I certainly wouldn't pay 6k crowns for a motif, nor would anyone I know. But some will for that instant gratification.

andreasranasen · January 2017

JD2013 wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me. They only care about my wallet.

The devs and company are not your friends. They work for and operate a business.

Harsh truth, but a truth nevertheless.

As a Senior Designer in Los Angeles with clients such as Warner Bros INJUSTICE 2, Lego Star Wars and others. I don't see them as my friends at all. BUT I DO CARE ABOUT THEM! Your argument is terrible.

As a player, you are the client.

Actually my argument isn't terrible at all. Because people have different perspectives and outlooks upon things, and one doesn't necessarily invalidate the other.

Devs may be nice with us. They interact with us. But at the end of the day, we are a number and a profit margin to any business. We are consumers. Here to consume content and items given to us.

And whilst I am on this, why, OP, would housing be an attempt to make amends? Make amends for what exactly?

Housing is purchasable for in game gold. Furniture is craftable in game. If you want a fully furnished house right off the bat with no effort, it'll cost money for the convenience of getting it all fast. It's a convenience for results without the process.

Now whilst a motif for 6,000 crowns is bad, and I agree that that is a ludicrous price for it, the motif is from an end game trial that takes effort to farm all pages. Again we are back to results without the process. I certainly wouldn't pay 6k crowns for a motif, nor would anyone I know. But some will for that instant gratification.

I get it. But what i'm saying is that you can't throw cashgrabs at your players when there's soo many issues in game that needs to be addressed. I am happy to buy mounts and all that crap from crown store. But you won't keep me as a happy costumer with so many features broken in-game and a laggy experience.

Sigtric · January 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me. They only care about my wallet.

The devs and company are not your friends. They work for and operate a business.

Harsh truth, but a truth nevertheless.

As a Senior Designer in Los Angeles with clients such as Warner Bros INJUSTICE 2, Lego Star Wars and others. I don't see those clients as my friends at all. BUT I DO CARE ABOUT THEM! If a client feel that i care and i do a good job they will come back and work with me again. Your argument is terrible.

As a player, you are the client. You are paying for a service and a product.

^^This

No one is asking for friends. But someone with a product to sell doesn't want to *** off or alienate their paying customer base.

I've was ready to buy the elk and the greed(ridiculous price) and low effort look to it stopped me
I wanted the Frost mage motif, setting the precedent of stones with the Harlequin motif and then the switch to less than a full sets worth of stone (making me need to BUY MORE) for a single set, stopped me
At a realistic price, I was prepared to buy 2 Dro Motifs (in the last couple weeks I decided I wanted a second character to learn motifs and research, for reasons) and instead get a price that would cause me to have to make 3 transactions to get enough crowns to buy 2 motifs, which is a pain PLUS the pricing is a smack in the face.

I'm not asking for friends, I'm asking to be treated fairly as a customer. This trend is not it.

I'm fully expecting housing to be expensive on the crown store, but I have my value:content limits there, too.

idk · January 2017

@MythicEmperor

tl;dr

what is the point of complaining about crown prices of items if you do not have to buy them. It is purely voluntary. It is a choice and you can choose to not do so.

Creating a thread about it is even less pointless because Zos is clearing selling their wares. Which is great for a game where no one has to pay a cent to play after a small cost of the initial game.

geonsocal · January 2017

just to provide a little enlightenment on the financial workings of matters concerning the real world... i give you exhibit A:

Money, get away
Get a good job with more pay and you're O.K.
Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think I'll buy me a football team

Money, get back
I'm all right Jack keep your hands off of my stack
Money, it's a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bullsh*t
I'm in the high-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I need a Lear jet

Money, it's a crime
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a raise it's no surprise that they're
Giving none away, away, away

yes, this the sad fact about how money "works" in the real world...

Sigtric · January 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@MythicEmperor

tl;dr

what is the point of complaining about crown prices of items if you do not have to buy them. It is purely voluntary. It is a choice and you can choose to not do so.

Creating a thread about it is even less pointless.

And it makes your reply... pointless

Rohamad_Ali · January 2017

Who doesn't like a bargain ? That's what makes me scratch my head is when people say no Ill pay twice that! . Infant fall damage is irreversible .

idk · January 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@MythicEmperor

tl;dr

what is the point of complaining about crown prices of items if you do not have to buy them. It is purely voluntary. It is a choice and you can choose to not do so.

Creating a thread about it is even less pointless.

And it makes your reply... pointless

@Sigtric

LOL. nope, just goes to show some people do not understand business. They want to get paid, but hate having to pay. Entitlement kinda figures into this for those complaining about the crown store. LOL

bubbygink · January 2017

I honestly find posts about Zos's greed to be absolutely hilarious considering the game is buy to play. And nothing in the crown store is needed, period. If you already own the game you can literally play it for free without any disadvantages at all. They can price a mount for 100,000 crowns for all I care. I won't buy it, but why in the world would I care? It is just a cosmetic item - price it at whatever you want, I don't need it. They will price items in the crown store at prices they estimate will generate the most revenue and I see absolutely no problem at all with this.

On that note, it annoys me when random people on the forums are like "wow Zos, you really missed up, a lot more people including me would have bought this if you priced it at X." I am pretty sure whatever educated economist is setting these prices based upon the pages and pages of hard data and research they have can set the best price for their bottom line much better than some random forum poster.

In my opinion, for most posters on these forums, "greedy" = "priced it more than they would like to pay." If they could only afford to spend 3,000 crowns on some cosmetic, then to them Zos is "so greedy" for pricing it at 4,500 (the amount I'm sure their data determined would be the ideal price). Just because you can't afford it doesn't mean Zos is "being greedy." I'm just tired of seeing post after post of people whining that they can't afford a cosmetic item. /rant

robertthebard · January 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@MythicEmperor

tl;dr

what is the point of complaining about crown prices of items if you do not have to buy them. It is purely voluntary. It is a choice and you can choose to not do so.

Creating a thread about it is even less pointless.

And it makes your reply... pointless

Sigtric wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@MythicEmperor

tl;dr

what is the point of complaining about crown prices of items if you do not have to buy them. It is purely voluntary. It is a choice and you can choose to not do so.

Creating a thread about it is even less pointless.

And it makes your reply... pointless

@Sigtric

LOL. nope, just goes to show some people do not understand business. They want to get paid, but hate having to pay. Entitlement kinda figures into this for those complaining about the crown store. LOL

I don't know that I'd go that far, entitlement was exhibited at it's best on the BW forums, before they got shut down, from people that believed that, once they paid for a game, everything else that comes later should be free, as if DLC had no development costs attached to it. I haven't seen anyone going quite that far, yet.

MythicEmperor · January 2017

JD2013 wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

ZOS could steal a purse from an old lady and you would still have people defending them. Sheep.
I regret falling in love with this game. The developers have clearly showed they do not care about me. They only care about my wallet.

The devs and company are not your friends. They work for and operate a business.

Harsh truth, but a truth nevertheless.

As a Senior Designer in Los Angeles with clients such as Warner Bros INJUSTICE 2, Lego Star Wars and others. I don't see them as my friends at all. BUT I DO CARE ABOUT THEM! Your argument is terrible.

As a player, you are the client.

Actually my argument isn't terrible at all. Because people have different perspectives and outlooks upon things, and one doesn't necessarily invalidate the other.

Devs may be nice with us. They interact with us. But at the end of the day, we are a number and a profit margin to any business. We are consumers. Here to consume content and items given to us.

And whilst I am on this, why, OP, would housing be an attempt to make amends? Make amends for what exactly?

Housing is purchasable for in game gold. Furniture is craftable in game. If you want a fully furnished house right off the bat with no effort, it'll cost money for the convenience of getting it all fast. It's a convenience for results without the process.

Now whilst a motif for 6,000 crowns is bad, and I agree that that is a ludicrous price for it, the motif is from an end game trial that takes effort to farm all pages. Again we are back to results without the process. I certainly wouldn't pay 6k crowns for a motif, nor would anyone I know. But some will for that instant gratification.

Why would they make amends? Did you read my post? Hero costumes. Clown crates. Elk mount. Now, the Dro-m'Athra motif price. ZOS had better not ruin Vvardenfell, too. At least get that right and I will live there and ignore the rest of the game when it gets too bad.

obscure7 · January 2017

There is no good faith anymore. No good faith from the company imparted to the consumers. No good faith from the consumers expressed to the company. Everyone wants what they want, and they want it NOW regardless of whatever else is going on.

The company wants people to buy their products, they want to cash in as much as possible with minimal continuous effort. The consumers want as much product as possible, as free as possible, with minimal effort on their part.

This isn't just isolated to the case of ZOS vs. its consumers, it is applicable to the entire consumer culture, and the entire greed model of business that seems to dominate lately.

Good faith is dead and it needs a revival. Not just in the video game industry but in all industries. Everywhere.

geonsocal · January 2017

@bubbygink ...okay, okay - maybe you used a few nicer words, and, perhaps you were a tad more coherent - but, I kinda think you just copied my post, verbatim

andreasranasen · January 2017

obscure7 wrote: »

There is no good faith anymore. No good faith from the company imparted to the consumers. No good faith from the consumers expressed to the company. Everyone wants what they want, and they want it NOW regardless of whatever else is going on.

The company wants people to buy their products, they want to cash in as much as possible with minimal continuous effort. The consumers want as much product as possible, as free as possible, with minimal effort on their part.

This isn't just isolated to the case of ZOS vs. its consumers, it is applicable to the entire consumer culture, and the entire greed model of business that seems to dominate lately.

Good faith is dead and it needs a revival. Not just in the video game industry but in all industries. Everywhere.

Honestly i don't think anyone has any issues with the cashgrabs at all. But is the game running smoothly? Do you DC in trials, VMA, PvP because they prefer not to update their servers? All the broken features in-game that never gets fixed instead they prioritize cashgrabs before those?

No one would really have much problem with a mount for 5k if the game was running excellent, not perfect, but excellent.
The game is running poorly and they want you to throw money at them? Very strange.

Thealteregoroman · January 2017

ugh....

idk · January 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

obscure7 wrote: »

There is no good faith anymore. No good faith from the company imparted to the consumers. No good faith from the consumers expressed to the company. Everyone wants what they want, and they want it NOW regardless of whatever else is going on.

The company wants people to buy their products, they want to cash in as much as possible with minimal continuous effort. The consumers want as much product as possible, as free as possible, with minimal effort on their part.

This isn't just isolated to the case of ZOS vs. its consumers, it is applicable to the entire consumer culture, and the entire greed model of business that seems to dominate lately.

Good faith is dead and it needs a revival. Not just in the video game industry but in all industries. Everywhere.

Honestly i don't think anyone has any issues with the cashgrabs at all. But is the game running smoothly? Do you DC in trials, VMA, PvP because they prefer not to update their servers? All the broken features in-game that never gets fixed instead they prioritize cashgrabs before those?

No one would really have much problem with a mount for 5k if the game was running excellent, not perfect, but excellent.
The game is running poorly and they want you to throw money at them? Very strange.

For someone who does not want to play 5k for a mount, they just move on. Complaining is pointless because Zos is clearly selling items at the prices they are posting them at. As long as that keeps up these threads will have zero affect on anything. Zero.

Carbonised · January 2017

OP, I wanna shower you in agrees for this post.

And nevermind all the wiseasses in this thread calling you, and others, butthurt or whatnot. Just seems to be the norm these days to go after the man and not the ball.

All these ad hominem insults aside, your original post still offers nothing but the truth of the matter.

SaRuZ · January 2017

I love how everybody is defending ZoS greed. You already purchased the game to play it, that's supporting it enough.

Oh and please stop acting like ZoS is only doing this to keep the lights on. This isn't a Kickstarter funded game or company. Their parent company Zenimax Media Inc. whom created a small subsidiary consisting of around 300 employees called Zenimax Online Studios in 2007 solely to develop ESO and only ESO.

Zenimax Media Inc. is valued at 2.6 Billion USD. I love how the Dro-m'Artha is up in the crown store three days after they hotfixed the trial Lol.

andreasranasen · January 2017

SaRuZ wrote: »

I love how everybody is defending ZoS greed. You already purchased the game to play it, that's supporting it enough.

Oh and please stop acting like ZoS is only doing this to keep the lights on. This isn't a Kickstarter funded game or company. Their parent company Zenimax Media Inc. whom created a small subsidiary consisting of around 300 employees called Zenimax Online Studios in 2007 solely to develop ESO and only ESO.

Zenimax Media Inc. is valued at 2.6 Billion USD. I love how the Dro-m'Artha is up in the crown store three days after they hotfixed the trial Lol.

PREACH!

Upright_man · January 2017

geonsocal wrote: »

just to provide a little enlightenment on the financial workings of matters concerning the real world... i give you exhibit A:

Money, get away
Get a good job with more pay and you're O.K.
Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think I'll buy me a football team

Money, get back
I'm all right Jack keep your hands off of my stack
Money, it's a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bullsh*t
I'm in the high-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I need a Lear jet

Money, it's a crime
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a raise it's no surprise that they're
Giving none away, away, away

yes, this the sad fact about how money "works" in the real world...

Always enjoy a bit of the Floyd. well played.

Sigtric · January 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@MythicEmperor

tl;dr

what is the point of complaining about crown prices of items if you do not have to buy them. It is purely voluntary. It is a choice and you can choose to not do so.

Creating a thread about it is even less pointless.

And it makes your reply... pointless

Sigtric wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@MythicEmperor

tl;dr

what is the point of complaining about crown prices of items if you do not have to buy them. It is purely voluntary. It is a choice and you can choose to not do so.

Creating a thread about it is even less pointless.

And it makes your reply... pointless

@Sigtric

LOL. nope, just goes to show some people do not understand business. They want to get paid, but hate having to pay. Entitlement kinda figures into this for those complaining about the crown store. LOL

It went right over your head but that's fine.

What's the point of replying to pointless threads if you don't have to reply to them?

Let me take a stab at it... You want to share your opinion on the matter and it validates your reason for posting it?