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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861

Returning to ESO - Struggles with Unfriendliness

Berylin
Berylin
My partner and I played ESO extensively during 2014. We reached level 50 with two mains, level 30 with our alts, had a couple crafting alts scattered between 18 and 28, and multiple mules. We normally play together, as a team. We left long before the new post-50 champion system, the new zones, or One Tamriel existed. We're both very experienced gamers, going back in MMORPGs to EverQuest in 1999. We've played just about every major MMORPG out there, plus various minor ones. We are both PvE players (we NEVER touch PvP).

We returned on January 3rd, 2017, and it's been a constant struggle ever since. My initial hopes of finding a happy home in One Tamriel are getting dimmer by the day. After two weeks, here are some of the problems we've encountered. Suggestions or solutions would be most welcome.


(I) MELEE-DOMINATED, UNDOCUMENTED COMBAT ?

We have NO idea how we used to play the game. All our skill points and attributes were refunded, so all we have for clues is the skill lines we've unlocked. Obviously, we have no idea which second tier skills we used. This might be a blessing in disguise, except for point (b) below.

(a) HOPELESS RANGED CHARACTERS: It appears that our level 50s from 2014, one destruction/restoration staff, the other a bow user, were both sorcerers who used tank pets. Back in 2014 that made a dynamic duo, but in 2017 it appears ranged attacks are WAY out of fashion for PvE. Nobody uses archery, and staff sorcerers have gone out of fashion. Based on comments here, either or both characters would be unwelcome in groups or group-content guilds. Both will struggle with the high-end content. As best I can tell, the only reason to keep them around is for their crafting skills. (They do food and potions, which seems to retain some marginal utility). If I'm wrong, can you point me to even up to date, modern, one well-written, well-reasoned discussion of how such characters can become desirable to a group or guild?

(b) LACK OF "MODERN" COMBAT ANALYTICS: Our level 30 alts, one a dragonknight tank, the other a templar healer, seem to have more promise. The biggest problem is the lack of post-One-Tamriel weapon and skill analysis. It appears that most wikis and websites have nothing but outdated and over-generalized info from the ESO launch era. In the game, I've noticed that undocumented data (like minimum time between attacks, iframe durations, etc.) is still missing, and confusing descriptions are just as confusing. This makes me wonder if skill descriptions were updated when the skills changed! For someone working their way through the grind from level 20 to ch160, what is needed is a well-written analysis of each weapon and skill for each class. I can't find ANY website, ANYWHERE, with that. Actual links to actual sites would be appreciated. Please don't ask me to spend hours listening to egocentric youtube blather in hopes to getting a nugget or two of knowledge. Solid data, with charts, tables, and well written descriptions is worth an infinite number of youtube hours.

(c) SET PROGRESSION: It appears that champion-level characters, like our level-50s, need specific gear sets to do better. In fact, perhaps they need to go after a series of sets, whose difficulty of acquisition seems to escalate, and may require ownership of DLC. Are there any well-written websites about that, and if so, links please?


(II) A NEW CRAFT "REQUIRES" A NEW CHARACTER ?

It appears that the new One Tamriel system requires that you must start crafting by level 10ish. If you take up a new craft at level 30, or level 50, or beyond, it's nearly hopeless. Advancement through construction and research has been nerfed into the ground. I've tried to learn blacksmithing with my level 30 character by making iron weapons and armor. After a couple dozen items, I couldn't even tell if the skill bar advanced at all! How the only way to advance is via writs. Writs are always for items at the level of your character, so if you're level 30 or 50 starting a new craft, you need to make level 30 or 50 items - but are only level 5 in crafting! Worse, most of the raw materials that drop are for your character level, not your crafting skill level. So in addition to be unable to make level 30 or 50 items, you can't find much raw material for the items you can make!

I suppose the alternative is to become wealthy by theft, or some other money-making gimmick, and just buy the materials and items for the writs. But that means you must play some other subgamet to be a crafter.

There is also the problem of turning in writs. Finding WHERE to turn in a writ, when you're forgotten most of the zones, is a major problem. Today we spent a half hour searching for a level 50 provisioning writ turn-in, and no luck. Just getting authorized for writs was a nightmare, with people giving us all sorts of inaccurate and inappropriate information in chat (see below), and the map quest symbols leading us to random, useless zones all around the map.


(III) A HORMONE CRAZED ADOLESCENT CHAT-WORLD ?

In the zones I traveled through with my partner, such as Stonefalls or Glenumbra, zone chat seems like a step down from the low standards of WoW. Gratuitous insults, swearing because its cool, trolling, all with barely comprehensible grammar and misspelling, make it impossible to gain information or help other others. Every day, in every zone, I'm blocking a new crop of uglies just make the chat threads comprehensible. It reminds me to wannabe "cool kids" language in junior high and high school. Is the game now played mostly by the under-18 set? There is always juvenile chat, but the level seems larger here than in either FFXIV or GW2, for example.

I'm not looking for a chat cure (that's hopeless). But honestly, we don't want to devote serious time to a game populated by people acting like 12-year-olds.




  • The Uninvited
    The Uninvited
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    What server are you on?
    Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |

    Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real
  • FluffyReachWitch
    FluffyReachWitch
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    Welcome back!

    As a magicka sorcerer who uses staves I just want to let you know that staves are still excellent, and so are bows. (It's just that everyone likes to dual-wield or go sword and shield with sorcs for extra spell damage and having another weapon slot for set bonuses. This is getting nerfed a bit soon.) Staves are great for sustaining your magicka. Both staves and bows can be combined well with the Stormcalling passives for some truly devastating attacks, powerful self-heals, and sturdy defenses. I'd go into more detail or try to find a helpful link but it's late here.

    As for crafting experience, the best way to get it is to deconstruct things. If you get equipment you're not going to use, take it back to the crafting stations to deconstruct it. Deconstructing intricate loot is even better since it provides nearly three times the inspiration. As long as the equipment has a monetary value, you should get some experience and items out of it. (If it's ornate, you'll probably want to sell it instead.) The same goes for glyphs. This can take a while, but it works much better than making items. Only Alchemy and Provisioning give reliable and fast experience for doing a lot of crafting at the best tier you can manage, probably because it's hard to deconstruct tea and potions.

    My solution for zone chat is simple. Whenever I start a new character, I make a new chat tab, and I immediately go into its options and turn off /zone. (Then I turn on NPC dialogue so I can go back and re-read what NPCs said if I missed something. :smile: ) When zone chat starts getting nasty in the first tab, I switch to the other tab for a bit.
  • The Uninvited
    The Uninvited
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    Here are some useful links:

    esoacademy.com/
    dungeoncrawlernetwork.com/sorcerer-skills-morphs/

    Sorcerer theorycrafting: tamrielfoundry.com/forum/classes/sorcerer-class/

    Now, for most builds you will find there you will need endgame gear. However, you could go with something like Julianos if you don't have the meta gear yet. For Julianos you will need the Orsinium DLC or know a crafter with the DLC who can make it for you.
    Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |

    Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real
  • Glamdring
    Glamdring
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    Find a Guild, turn of zonechat and google builds for your playstyle. there u have it.
  • adriant1978
    adriant1978
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    Destruction Staves are getting a nice buff in the next patch, so hang in there.
  • Berylin
    Berylin
    @The Uninvited -
    What server? The NA/PC server, in one of the infinite unknowable "hidden" instances of any given zone. Thanks for the links.

  • Aliasukjern
    Strait and honest post Berylin. My reply wont offer much on help with the ingame issues with reapplying skills to the game that you have not played for a long time, because i am a fresh new player to this game.

    I will just say that i like what you write in your post, and i can relate (alot) to the part about zones filled with players throwing one insult after another to each other.
    If it helps or not, know that at least one other player feels your frustration so please dont give up hope.
    ~Do onto others more than you do for yourself~
  • Berylin
    Berylin
    AARRGGGH !!! I have discovered that the skill descriptions were NOT revised when the big reset of skills occurred. Not only are the in-game descriptions wrong, but most of the websites that reuse those descriptions are also wrong. All the theorycrafters who are basing their thinking on the in-game text are also suspect. What a mess!

    Would somebody please visit Zenimax and destroy all their design docs and data. Make them experience how much THEY enjoy a game with no documentation!

    I have already made a number of bad choices for skill advances, and will probably make further mistakes simply due to no useful information. What I would give for a website that had ACCURATE information for all the skills !!!
  • dpencil
    dpencil
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    http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor
    This is the best and most up to date place to play with build ideas, see the various morph possibilities, etc

    https://m.youtube.com/user/Scrubmydinner
    Watch Gil's "Let's Talk" video series for an in depth look at class and weapon skill lines. He is very detailed.

    Also, you can check out Alcast, Deltia, and other streamer build videos for ideas about what's effective.

    Magicka users are in a great place in PvE, so run Destro/Resto or Destro/Destro and you'll do just fine.

    It sounds like the most important thing you need is a guild to be a part of. Visit the capitol cities (Wayrest, Mounrhold, Elden Root) and Rawl Ka in Reaper's March. Say in zone chat that you're looking for a guild and you'll likely get some immediate whispers. You can also visit the guild recuitment part of the ESO Forums and send an in-game mail to the contact person for the guild you're interested.

    Best wishes on your journey!
    Edited by dpencil on January 22, 2017 7:17PM
  • Ourorboros
    Ourorboros
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    Ignore Chat.

    Deconstruction is the key to advancing Enchanting and Equipment crafts.

    Sorcerers are still valid. Try a Stam Sorc. Check Deltias site for a build with Dual Wield and Bow.....effective and fun.

    Join guilds for trading and for more reliable advice about builds and skill morphs. Don't trust chat for this, as you've seen it is not reliable.

    Writs are a good way to help advance skills crafts. Get certified at the Mages Guild in Capital of each first zone, from Daniel T(something). My writs all state where the turn in is located, in the journal under quest tab.

    I find http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Online is a good source of information. Not always current, but gets updated regularly.
    Edited by Ourorboros on January 22, 2017 7:44PM
    PC/NA/DC
    Breton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
    TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
    Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
    ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)
  • DeadlyRecluse
    DeadlyRecluse
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    Finding a good guild will solve 90 percent of your problems.

    Zone chat is usually full of crap.

    Destro/resto sorcs are fine.
    Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub
  • Syrani
    Syrani
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    Here is a link to some end game builds:

    http://alcasthq.com/

    Be aware though - some changes are coming in the next few weeks that may change the "meta". What I would do is temporarily use that guide to get stared, and then focus on getting those characters leveled to 50. Then work on earning champion points as fast as you can. Current max gear level is champion 160, and I don't think that is going to change with the next patch. Get yourselves up to CP 160, then you can make some purple (don't go for gold yet) gear and work on getting your skills leveled. Current max CP points that you can spend is 561. That is going up next patch, so earn as many as you can before it hits.

    When the new patch hits, some of these people will probably revise their guides. Once you are at CP 160, you can then start making/farming the gear they recommend, and continue leveling the skills you will need based on their builds, and continue working on your CP. Once you have what you need, practice working on a rotation. When you feel comfortable with your gear and rotation, join up for some normal mode dungeons to get some good experience in using the rotation in that environment. Once you hit CP 400 or so and you are confident in your rotation, start joining in on some veteran dungeons. Be aware though, veteran dungeons are a good bit more difficult than normals, and often times have new bosses or mechanics. For these, its best to go with a guild group so that they will hopefully be more patient with you while you are learning them.
  • Syrani
    Syrani
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    Oh, one more thing - You mentioned combat analytics being outdated. Try CombatMetrics instead. It gives you a lot of good info about your fights.

    Others that I find useful:

    ActionDurationReminder: Puts a timer on your skill icon (on your bar) for skills that have a duration. It starts when you use the skill, and then counts down and flashes zero when it has run out. You can also set it to send a text notification on your screen when it has run out.

    RaidNotifier: This is for end game trials, so you won't need this for a while. When you start running trials, you will want this. If you have played WoW, it's like an extremely slimmed down version of DeadlyBossMods.

    Papacrown: This add on makes the crown over the leader's head bigger so that it is easier to see.

    ProvisionsTeamFormation: Puts icons on your screen telling you where your teammates are in relation to you. If that team member is dead, their icon changes to a skull. I use this to help find the dead people so I can rez.

    JoGroup: this is a raid frame UI. It tells you when someone is dead, if they are being rezzed, or if they have a rez pending.


    General Use Add Ons:

    Lorebooks: marks the locations of lore books on your map.

    Skyshards: marks the locations of skyshards on your map.

    PublicDungeonChampion: this is for the group public dungeons. Once inside these dungeons, it marks the boss locations on your map. If the icon is green, you haven't killed that boss yet. If it's red, you have.

    There are a lot more add ons available, but you will find that many are outdated. Some are still useable though.


    Edited by Syrani on January 23, 2017 6:32PM
  • Nestor
    Nestor
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    Berylin wrote: »
    @The Uninvited -
    What server? The NA/PC server, in one of the infinite unknowable "hidden" instances of any given zone. Thanks for the links.

    One thing that has happened since release is Hybrid Builds are dead. Well, not dead, just not favored by the game. Some people use Melee DW on Casters for extra spell power, but that is not really needed in PvE. So, if you want to go ranged on a caster, then use a Staff. The days of using a Bow on a Sorcerer are gone. Also, go all in on Magic for your casters, and Stamina for your Melee Weapon characters (basically all the other weapons)

    Almost all the skills have changed somewhat, which is why your points got refunded. It kind of is a different game from back then. In some ways better, in some ways not ((I miss Hybrids myself)

    If you need a good guild to help you out with the new systems, send me an email in game to @Nestor and I can get you hooked up.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
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    The PublicDungeonChamps addon doesn't work as well any more. Sometimes the icon doesn't change color after you defeat a boss. I found the boss module in Destinations to be more useful.
    Edited by Katahdin on January 23, 2017 8:00PM
    Beta tester November 2013
  • fioskal
    fioskal
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    If you're PC/NA, feel free to add me as a friend (@fioskal) and I would be more than happy to help you both get going again. The game has changed a huge amount since launch, and things aren't always as obvious as they should be. I also second Gill's Youtube channel posted above, as well as Deltia and Alcast, they're all three great resources.
    -Fiona-
    PC - NA
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