Are Vamp aesthetics ever going to be optional?

ListerJMC · January 2017

Kendaric wrote: »

Fodore wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

I feel that if you want the benefits of being a vampire, you should look like one. You're more or less a walking corpse, after all. I don't want an ESO filled with Twilight and Underworld vampires. This game is filled with barbies as it is.

So ESO is changing from all lore that describes how Vamps disguise themselves? A fully established lore section and they want to throw that part out of the window?

They aren't changing the lore, the only vampires that can fully pass as mortals are the ones from Cyrodiil and one strain of Bosmer vampires and both have limitations on that ability. The cyrodiilic strain must feed to maintain their mortal appearance and the Bosmer strain is revealed in candlelight (according to the "Immortal Blood" lorebook from Skyrim).
The vampires we play in ESO are unharmed by the sun, that is their special power.

Now, I do agree that stage 1 vampires could look a little less dead, but it's not really that big of an issue. Vampires in stage 2 or higher should never be able to hide their affliction (and they should be attacked by guards, but that's a different issue).

Possible solutions:

1) Feeding while in stage 1 could grant a "well-fed" buff, that allows players to hide their vampirism for a time.
2) ZOS could create a skill unlocked at vampire rank 10 that when slotted allows you to retain your mortal appearance at the cost of Magicka.
3) ZOS could make a new appearance for stage 1 that sets your skin tone to the first (lightest) skin tone for our chosen race and make the current stage 1 appearance actually stage 2.

Personally, I'd prefer option 1 or 3 since that would be the most lore-friendly.

Except Lamae Bal states that "Your kin hide among the mortals. They may be wearing rags or crowns. They may hide within or rise above the masses." So I don't think it's breaking lore at all for this strain of vampirism to be able to hide their appearance, that statement seems to imply that they can?

Kendaric · January 2017

ListerJMC wrote: »

Except Lamae Bal states that "Your kin hide among the mortals. They may be wearing rags or crowns. They may hide within or rise above the masses." So I don't think it's breaking lore at all for this strain of vampirism to be able to hide their appearance, that statement seems to imply that they can?

"Hide among mortals" is a pretty vague statement. A stage 1 vampire can pass as mortal, albeit a pale one, and thus hide among them. But I don't believe for a second that extends to stage 2 and beyond.
Apparently not even the mighty Verandis can hide the higher stages and neither can Lamae Bal.

starkerealm · January 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Fodore wrote: »

You see, I love vamp and all, the passives are great and it has some neat skills in certain situations... But when I make my characters I want them to look good and not like they have been covered in tippex and some 5 year old has splattered red sharpie all over them... Some people may not understand my feelings and thoughts but for me, a huge part of the game is making my character look aesthetically pleasing. I see no reason not to be a vamp really if you are on a magicka build and are like me who loves the Templar classes (the huge heals built into the class make up for the fire weakness completely imho), except for the horrible aesthetics.

Now, i'm probably going to get some people saying "oh well you know, you cant be a vampire and not look like one"... well clearly you can... just take a look at Count Verandis Ravenwatch who looks just like a normal human when hiding his vampirism.
So my question to you ZOS is why can the players not look like humans when afflicted with vampirism?

As i recall disguises tend to make you look normal - hiding vampirism, so if there are any disguises you like then they along with hide helmets will do a good part of the work. there are a ton of disguises so...

As I understand it, that's technically a bug. It got added with Dark Brotherhood, and hasn't been fixed yet, but that doesn't mean it won't disappear with a future patch.

ListerJMC · January 2017

Kendaric wrote: »

ListerJMC wrote: »

Except Lamae Bal states that "Your kin hide among the mortals. They may be wearing rags or crowns. They may hide within or rise above the masses." So I don't think it's breaking lore at all for this strain of vampirism to be able to hide their appearance, that statement seems to imply that they can?

"Hide among mortals" is a pretty vague statement. A stage 1 vampire can pass as mortal, albeit a pale one, and thus hide among them. But I don't believe for a second that extends to stage 2 and beyond.
Apparently not even the mighty Verandis can hide the higher stages and neither can Lamae Bal.

I don't think even a stage 1 vampire could "Hide within the masses" without disguising themselves somehow, not when it's so drastic (at least, it is on my Redguard - may as well have a neon sign). And where does it say that neither Verandis nor Lamae Bal can't disguise themselves at the higher states of vampirism?

Vampiresmile · January 2017

I was thinking it would be nice to have more specific personalities for warewolf/vampires respectively. I was also hoping that more with vampires because compared to wolves I find them dull that they would be given a elegant/swagger personality and maybe with the introduction of the dark brotherhoods blade of woe that they would implement some sort of vampire kills for less xp. Such as shadow stepping behind an enemy and breaking their neck/biting etc.

TheShadowScout · January 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Aren't vampires in fairy tales supposed to be attractive? You don't seduce your prey by looking like a syphillitic meth head.

Tell that to Count Orlok!

Actually, if you go back to fairy tales, vampires were just corpses hundering for your blood, one way or another.

The "seductive vampire" only started with classic tales (Carmilla, Dracula) doing a new spin on those fairy tales in the late 19th century (technicaly combining the vampire failry tales and the succubus fairy tales, in a fashion). Which then of course was picked up upon later on, leading us through hollywood movies and anne rice novels until it gave birth to abominations like "twilight"...

Abeille wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

There are other instances in the game where mortals used illusion magic or enchanted items to make themselves or someone else look completely different. Doing the same to make a character look like a mortal version of themselves shouldn't be a problem.

Stop using Verandis as an excuse for being able to hide our vampirism. He's apparently the only vampire NPC in ESO that can do it, which may well be a gift from Molag Bal.
Neither Gwendis nor Adusa-daro or the guys at Wittestadr seem to be able to do this, so why should we?

If we ever get such a feature, it has to be a toggle skill that only works in stage 1 and maybe stage 2.

I didn't use Verandis as an excuse, read my post again @Kendaric . I am speaking of illusion magic used by mortals, which can very well be what he uses to hide his vampirism too. It isn't necessarily something connected to his vampirism. So stop using him being an original vampire as a reason why we shouldn't be able to hide it and ignoring the other possibilities.

When a Thalmor mage makes Raz look like Ayrenn.
When Raz wears an enchanted earring to look like a male Altmer, and we wear it too on the same quest.
When we again wear the same earring to look like a colovian general.
When we use a gem to look like a goblin.

And that's why we should be able to hide our vampirism. Because illusion magic and enchanted items that alter your appearance are a thing.

Yeah. Exactly.
No matter what vampires can or cannot do, magic -clearly- allows such options. Slap on a ring enchanted with your pre-vampy appearance, and presto - noone can tell you are a vampire. And since we -clearly- saw that such illusion disguises work on non-mages, you don't need to be a mage yourself to get one.

So, add an piece of jewlery that does it. With the drawback of it taking up an jewlery slot you could otherwise use for more effectiveness - and people can make their own choice as to where their priorities lie...

Easiest and best solution.

MornaBaine · January 2017

At this point, I honestly don't care HOW they implement vampires having the ability to also look mortal. Enchanted jewelry, a store skin, green potion that reverts you to mortal appearance for 6 hours, a simple toggle... I just want them to finally DO it. C'mon ZOS, this is ridiculous, we've been asking for this SINCE LAUNCH. Please finally listen. There's $$ in it for you and it's easy.

AhPook_Is_Here · January 2017

I wouldn't mind if they put some kind of disguise in crown store that removed vampire appearance that while equipped also turned off vampire abilities and passives.

While in PVP you can see the vampire buff on your targets buff bar it's not there for people who don't use UI mods and in fairness to them they should be able to know how to attack what they are facing before being set in a defensive posture.

Fodore · January 2017

Quickest way for this to get implemented is to suggest to ZOS a CS item... They can't resist that extra money

Bobby_V_Rockit · January 2017

Fodore wrote: »

Quickest way for this to get implemented is to suggest to ZOS a CS item... They can't resist that extra money

They could just adjust the opacity of the current skin over the base model so that body markings are visible and sell the reduced as a skin... call it something like "vampire kin" skin. That way non-vamp folk could look it too

zuto40 · January 2017

if you are stage 1 sure hide it, stage 4? hell no thats stupid and doesnt follow lore

Delte · January 2017

Have a limited time disguise for vampires in the crown store. ZOS would make a killing.

I have two vampires and I kind like the way they look as it fits in with the characters I have in mind. Stay at stage 1 and you look kind of normal. Stage 2 its starting to tell, 3 and 4 yep you are looking quite undead.

Dawnblade · January 2017

Fodore wrote: »

Dawnblade wrote: »

Dawnblade wrote: »

I want to be a spellcaster with the best passives for my class, but I don't want to be an altmer or dunmer so I should be able to get those racial benefits yet look like a redguard, or they could just let me pick the passive racial lines from whatever I feel has the best passives and add them to whatever race I choose based on looks / lore.

I mean its my character so I should be able to do what I want - also every excuse for how illusion magic exists and spells that do things like make a kajit look like an altmer should allow me to play a dunmer and look like an imperial.

Fodore wrote: »

Dawnblade wrote: »

I want to be a spellcaster with the best passives for my class, but I don't want to be an altmer or dunmer so I should be able to get those racial benefits yet look like a redguard, or they could just let me pick the passive racial lines from whatever I feel has the best passives and add them to whatever race I choose based on looks / lore.

That's such a warped logic from what we are discussing here.

Is it?

Some in this and similar threads have clearly stated that what they want is to be able to obtain the vampire skill line and passives without actually being a vampire, well I want the dunmer passives for my templar without having to look like a dunmer.

Not to mention the OP of this thread posted a justification for allowing the appearance based on quests such as those involving Raz where the player (any race / gender) is given the appearance of a male altmer or when Raz (kajit) has the appearance of a male altmer or female altmer (the queen herself) - so those same in-game appearance changes also seem to work to mask a players actual gender and race.

So again - if one player can have the vampire skill line and not look like a vampire, then I and other players should be able to have a racial skill line and not look like the race.

Seriously, the whole reasoning so many are asking to have the vampire appearance hidden is tied to wanting to control their character's appearance while being able to access certain skills and passives - so letting players pick and choose their appearance for one set of skills and passives (vamp / ww) and not another (racial) is warped in my mind.

Race = Race (Bosmer = Bosmer | Orc = Orc etc)
Vampire = Race with vampirism. You will look like the race except with vampirism. And when in ES lore has a race been able to look like another race permanently and have all of that race's bonuses? Im not too good at explaining but your logic should really make it clear to you.

Both are choices that tie game play to appearance.

One player wants the vampire skills in ESO, but doesn't want the vampire appearance.

Another wants the dunmer racial skills in ESO, but doesn't want to look like a dunmer.

In both cases, the player wants to optimize their character around skill lines (game play), without being forced into certain appearances (cosmetic).

Either they make a change to the game that allows players to decouple ALL skill lines from appearance, including race, or no skill lines should be decoupled.

At least with the current vampire choice, you don't gimp your character by choosing not to be a vampire, while someone who chooses to play a nord using magic does gimp their character.

MornaBaine · January 2017

Fodore wrote: »

Quickest way for this to get implemented is to suggest to ZOS a CS item... They can't resist that extra money

Not necessarily true. I suggested it over 2 years ago and my question was even asked on a ESO Live segment. At that time they said they "might be able to do something with costumes" and that was long before there even was a crown shop. So you would have thought that might have been one of the first things they put out. But nope. All this time and countless requests later they still haven't done anything about it.

Fodore · January 2017

MornaBaine wrote: »

Fodore wrote: »

Quickest way for this to get implemented is to suggest to ZOS a CS item... They can't resist that extra money

Not necessarily true. I suggested it over 2 years ago and my question was even asked on a ESO Live segment. At that time they said they "might be able to do something with costumes" and that was long before there even was a crown shop. So you would have thought that might have been one of the first things they put out. But nope. All this time and countless requests later they still haven't done anything about it.

2 years and still no simple update? I have lost hope...

Balamoor · January 2017

Keep_Door wrote: »

It is optional... you dont have to be a vamprie

Yeah they really do...their Monkey love for Twilight knows no bounds.

Kodrac · January 2017

Abeille · January 2017

zuto40 wrote: »

if you are stage 1 sure hide it, stage 4? hell no thats stupid and doesnt follow lore

Show me which part of the lore this breaks exactly, since this thread gave several examples of how it actually doesn't.

Kodrac wrote: »

No such thing as a "dead horse" until ZOS says "no, never" (and even then, it is not like they didn't do stuff that they said they wouldn't before, for better or worse). A MMO is ALWAYS changing and evolving. Something that is a "no" now can be a "of course!" a few months later. Since what they said was more on the lines of "feedback heard and passed forward", yeah, it makes sense to keep talking about it.

Molydeus · January 2017

All these guys want their vamp chicks to look like Kate Beckinsale.

Mojmir · January 2017

No deal with the pros and cons.

MornaBaine · February 2017

Sadly, this issue seems to have been swallowed by the housing crisis.

Cadbury · February 2017

Vampire houses.

ZiRM · February 2017

I think you should be able to hide them but your shouldn't be able to go out in the sunlight.

cpuScientist · February 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

Yay! Another one!

/popcorn

Awesome constructive post detailing your position, reasons, and concessions! "Yay!"

And yeah OP I feel you. Stage one vamps, by lore definition (Google "Immortal Blood", quite a good read) can fool even the most seasoned, trained hunters when fed. So, my solution?

Add another stage to vampirism identicle to stage 1, but with unchanged skin. "Stage 0", if you will.

Those are cyrodilic vamps, Clavicus Vile basically gave them the ability if well fed to be indistinguishable to humans and walk during the day, but only if they have fed within the last 24 hours afterwards they are weakened by sunlight.

These in ESO have the strain of vampirism called Noxiphilic Sanguivoria which allows them to operate in sunlight and grow stronger at night. But don't look quite normal even when well fed.

Fodore · February 2017

ZiRM wrote: »

I think you should be able to hide them but your shouldn't be able to go out in the sunlight.

So you want people to only play on camp at night?