[Update 13] Increased AP gain

andreasranasen · January 2017

Capturing Resources = 1500 AP
Capturing Keeps = 6000 AP
Capturing Towns = 1500 AP
Capturing Districts = 1500 AP

Not only is this a complete slap in the face towards the players who have spent 1000s of hours getting their ranks up in the 40-50 ranks. But it's also way too easy to exploit .

I suggest, not all AP gained should go towards your Alliance Rank Progession. Let it be the same amount of AP going towards your title as it is today and let the rest of the AP go into your "Alliance Currency" pool.

As for exploiting. It's way too easy getting a couple of friends from opposing alliance to keep flipping a keep or resource. Especially in dead maps. Cut the AP gain in half and so on every time that specific keep gets flipped within a certain amount of time. Let it be the same way as it is today when you kill the same player over and over. This new system just awards boosters and morning cappers.

ADDED : To keep it fair, maybe add PvP Rank number instead of a symbol in the Options Panel? That way people can continue showing off their rank above Rank 50 but without an actual title.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

THIS THREAD HAS BEEB PROVEN RIGHT

fastolfv_ESO · January 2017

question is does that 6k keep tick ap get split between everyone, cause atm you take a keep with 20 ppl everyone gets what 120? so 6k split 20 ways you now get 300 pvdoor doesnt seem that effective. Now ofcourse you go to the dead empty servers on NA azuras and had and pvdoor with a friend with 0 opposition and you may have issues

Qbiken · January 2017

I like the change, easier to earn AP. Will attract more people to IC which has been dead for ages now.

andreasranasen · January 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

I like the change, easier to earn AP. Will attract more people to IC which has been dead for ages now.

Yes totally! Which I'm super happy about. But should it count towards your title progression? Is it fair to the people who have spent an endless amount of hours getting up to Grand Overlord?

Wollust · January 2017

I don't think it's much of an issue tbh.
Seems like a good way to ensure a regular AP income for people that don't like PvP (to get the skill lines) and for those who mainly play the campaign and keeps and that kinda stuff.
As to the exploit thingy, I don't think ZoS would be that stupid and make such a mistake. But I might be wrong on this one.

dotme · January 2017

It rewards campaign objectives over tower farming. I like the change too. Yes, it should count towards progression. Things change.

Jaronking · January 2017

Wollust wrote: »

I don't think it's much of an issue tbh.
Seems like a good way to ensure a regular AP income for people that don't like PvP (to get the skill lines) and for those who mainly play the campaign and keeps and that kinda stuff.
As to the exploit thingy, I don't think ZoS would be that stupid and make such a mistake. But I might be wrong on this one.

You have way more faith in Zos then most people I know.

dotme · January 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

Cut the AP gain in half and so on every time that specific keep gets flipped within a certain amount of time. Let it be the same way as it is today when you kill the same player over and over. This new system just awards boosters and morning cappers.

I already suggested this in the patch notes thread. Tying reward amount to keep/resource level should take care of it.

andreasranasen · January 2017

Wollust wrote: »

I don't think it's much of an issue tbh.
Seems like a good way to ensure a regular AP income for people that don't like PvP (to get the skill lines) and for those who mainly play the campaign and keeps and that kinda stuff.
As to the exploit thingy, I don't think ZoS would be that stupid and make such a mistake. But I might be wrong on this one.

Again, super happy about getting more AP. Will be easier to get the weekly monster shoulder/helm or jewelry! That's awesome! But should all that AP go towards your title progression or JUST go towards your leaderboards and Alliance currency?

Mind you, it takes 12 months to get to Grand Overlord if you get about 1.2 million AP per week. This new reward is letting people get up there way faster.

Wollust · January 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I like the change, easier to earn AP. Will attract more people to IC which has been dead for ages now.

Yes totally! Which I'm super happy about. But should it count towards your title progression? Is it fair to the people who have spent an endless amount of hours getting up to Grand Overlord?

Why wouldn't it? You could say the same about the doubling of ap gains a year ago. Wasn't that unfair to everyone else with high ranks?
Changes happen, there is nothing wrong with that. And that bit of AP won't make it much easier to reach GO. So you don't need to worry.

andreasranasen · January 2017

dotme wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Cut the AP gain in half and so on every time that specific keep gets flipped within a certain amount of time. Let it be the same way as it is today when you kill the same player over and over. This new system just awards boosters and morning cappers.

I already suggested this in the patch notes thread. Tying reward amount to keep/resource level should take care of it.

Didn't see that thread

But happy you brought it up as well.

Rev Rielle · January 2017

This is a good thing, and I'm surprised any can think otherwise.
As others have said; anything that gets more players in Cyrodiil is almost universally positive.

Sure there are always ways to potentially exploit it, this is already the case in-game, but any flips are broadcast to the entire Cyrodiil campaign player base by the changes flagged on our maps. So if you see something going on (e.g. flipping from one to another and back again regularly) and don't like, get your friends over there, take out the flippers, then report them.

Sigtric · January 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I don't think it's much of an issue tbh.
Seems like a good way to ensure a regular AP income for people that don't like PvP (to get the skill lines) and for those who mainly play the campaign and keeps and that kinda stuff.
As to the exploit thingy, I don't think ZoS would be that stupid and make such a mistake. But I might be wrong on this one.

Again, super happy about getting more AP. Will be easier to get the weekly monster shoulder/helm or jewelry! That's awesome! But should all that AP go towards your title progression or JUST go towards your leaderboards and Alliance currency?

Mind you, it takes 12 months to get to Grand Overlord if you get about 1.2 million AP per week. This new reward is letting people get up there way faster.

I understand the complaint there, but seriously...

It used to take a new person months to get to vr16 and now it takes a couple weeks to get the equivalent

You can 1-50 in less hours than I am at work on an average day, now.

Things change

People have been asking for more incentive in Cyrodiil
more incentive in IC

This is [part of] it

danno8 · January 2017

The resource flip right now is 25 AP, lol. Surprised they bumped it up by 6000%. I figured a few hundred would have been a good amount.

Now if my math serves me right, it would take around 30s to flip the flag with 2 people, and maybe 30s to kill everything, so let's say you can ideally flip a resource back and forth with 2 opposing members working in cahoots (which is cheating BTW and could get you banned) once every 2 minutes (1 minute for you and 1 minute for the other guys).

This would mean if you all get 1500 base/2minutes = 45,000 AP per hour. If it gets shared between the two of you then it would be 22500 AP/ hour.

I agree this is way too high and should be brought down. Getting 22500 AP per hour by fighting is pretty darn good and taking resources should never be as lucrative as fighting other players.

I think the amount for districts, towns and resources should be 300 per person. Keeps should be 1500. Oh and keeps need to be unflagged before they can be "flipped" again, in order to slow down the process and prevent any "shenanigans".

Gandrhulf_Harbard · January 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

Yes totally! Which I'm super happy about. But should it count towards your title progression? Is it fair to the people who have spent an endless amount of hours getting up to Grand Overlord?

It is the nature of MMORPGs that at some point the earning curve gets made easier for those not already at the peak.

Almost every MMORPG on the market has done it, more than once, with Leveling XP - the obvious goal to get more people to level cap which is where most new content is released. Now, 1T changed that for ESO.

That said there's still CP - and players below a certain level get a boost "Enlightenment" so that they are not forever playing catch-up to a goal moving further away.

Once XP and CP were dealt with it was inevitable that AP was going to get some form of similar treatment.

Far to many "casual" PvPers are forever put off engaging with PvP by being so far behind the curve that they can never even hope to get a glimpse of the winning line. Now, we can either accept that is how it is and see the levels of PvP participation forever dwindle - to the point that ZOS don't even bother doing anything at all to PvP or even try and fix issues with it.

Or, some mechanic can be introduced that allows new players (of which there are many since 1T) and new PvPers to achieve parity ever so slightly quicker than they otherwise would, and so they may stick around in PvP long enough make further investment by ZOS economically viable.

Which do you think plays out best for PvP in the long run?

All The Best

Maikon · January 2017

Jaronking wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I like the change, easier to earn AP. Will attract more people to IC which has been dead for ages now.

Yes but so easy to exploit this Jew change its just stupid not to mention it rewarding morning camping a campaign when most of the other alliance is sleep or at work.

I didn't realize this is an ethnic issue.

danno8 · January 2017

Rev Rielle wrote: »

This is a good thing, and I'm surprised any can think otherwise.
As others have said; anything that gets more players in Cyrodiil is almost universally positive.

Sure there are always ways to potentially exploit it, this is already the case in-game, but any flips are broadcast to the entire Cyrodiil campaign player base by the changes flagged on our maps. So if you see something going on (e.g. flipping from one to another and back again regularly) and don't like, get your friends over there, take out the flippers, then report them.

My biggest concern isn't so much exploiting by a few people, rather the same thing that happens in GW2, where taking keeps is way more lucrative for currency to the point that people avoid fighting each other and even willfully let the other side take keeps and resources so they can be flipped back a few minutes later.

I see the more "dead" campaigns becoming a place for groups to play ring around the rosy around keeps just flipping resources. Unless the 1500 is shared between everyone, then I am not concerned.

Artis · January 2017

To be honest, this is very logical and had to be done long time ago. Not only it might bring more people, like others said above, but also it will encourage people to play the map more. It was very illogical that for taking a resource you'd get less AP than for killing a player. I mean, strategically speaking - at war taking position is more useful that killing one enemy soldier, isn't it?

disintegr8 · January 2017

Change is change and the game keeps evolving, not sure how this is any different to the vet rank removal and change to CP.

Suddenly every player with multiple vet characters had them all at gear cap simply because one character was vet16 before the change. I am sure there were plenty of players who had leveled all their characters to vet16 feeling miffed that everyone else was getting there easier.

Personally I think the AP grind in PVP is more painful than any vet or cp grind in PVE ever was. People have always taken advantage of any way they could find to increase their AP, either by working with friends in other alliances or just doing the take and flip approach to keeps.

andreasranasen · January 2017

danno8 wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

This is a good thing, and I'm surprised any can think otherwise.
As others have said; anything that gets more players in Cyrodiil is almost universally positive.

Sure there are always ways to potentially exploit it, this is already the case in-game, but any flips are broadcast to the entire Cyrodiil campaign player base by the changes flagged on our maps. So if you see something going on (e.g. flipping from one to another and back again regularly) and don't like, get your friends over there, take out the flippers, then report them.

My biggest concern isn't so much exploiting by a few people, rather the same thing that happens in GW2, where taking keeps is way more lucrative for currency to the point that people avoid fighting each other and even willfully let the other side take keeps and resources so they can be flipped back a few minutes later.

I see the more "dead" campaigns becoming a place for groups to play ring around the rosy around keeps just flipping resources. Unless the 1500 is shared between everyone, then I am not concerned.

Finally! A fellow GW2 player that gets me lol. That's all that's going on in WvW lol

Waseem · January 2017

why shall we struggle as much as you do huh?
world moves further, content get added all the time and older ones become slightly easier over time, thats in in every game i ever played.
in ESO you can see how older dungeons get easier, doing crypt of hearts was a nightmare at somepoint, now its easy, look around, some people are also soloing dungeons
more AP from playing the campaign is not a bad thing, its the opposite,
and what do you get exactly from having everyone to struggle and spend years to get alliance war levels? does that keeps your salary high? do you even get paid for being alliance rank 50?
the AP gains from kills has been doubled, and group of farmville balls are running around daily, this is ok for you, while playing the campaign and capturing a keep is not?
just find something else better for you or the community to do yes?

Stopnaggin · January 2017

andreasranasen wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I like the change, easier to earn AP. Will attract more people to IC which has been dead for ages now.

Yes totally! Which I'm super happy about. But should it count towards your title progression? Is it fair to the people who have spent an endless amount of hours getting up to Grand Overlord?

Dude I'm no PVPer but this has happened everywhere. I got my caltrops, vigor and warhorn long before they lowered it. It's about the same with pre cp leveling. They are catering to a more casual crowd. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. 1T did bring life back into the game. And no offense but this is the least of PVPer problems. How about getting you guys some new content, fixing lag and proc sets?

Wollust · January 2017

Jaronking wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I don't think it's much of an issue tbh.
Seems like a good way to ensure a regular AP income for people that don't like PvP (to get the skill lines) and for those who mainly play the campaign and keeps and that kinda stuff.
As to the exploit thingy, I don't think ZoS would be that stupid and make such a mistake. But I might be wrong on this one.

You have way more faith in Zos then most people I know.

I actually don't have any faith in ZoS after 3 years. However, I do hope they have some sort of a minimum of common sense

MEBengalsFan2001 · January 2017

Wollust wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I like the change, easier to earn AP. Will attract more people to IC which has been dead for ages now.

Yes totally! Which I'm super happy about. But should it count towards your title progression? Is it fair to the people who have spent an endless amount of hours getting up to Grand Overlord?

Why wouldn't it? You could say the same about the doubling of ap gains a year ago. Wasn't that unfair to everyone else with high ranks?
Changes happen, there is nothing wrong with that. And that bit of AP won't make it much easier to reach GO. So you don't need to worry.

People complain they don't do anything for PVP. They make a PVP change and they complain about the change. What is it, you want changes or not. Some times the changes made are to help get more players into a specific area of the game. For instance OT was designed to get higher character in lower areas. It was also designed to get more people to play lower level characters, etc..This change may help get more player and new players over to PVP, that is a good thing, isn't it?

ThePonzzz · January 2017

All this is, is a shift to how we get AP. As someone pointed out, farming AP via tower raids will be done. If anything, this will be a net loss for a lot of people who participate in those activities.

PvDoor might become more of a thing, but AP gains for taking resources should have always been a thing.

andreasranasen · January 2017

Stopnaggin wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I like the change, easier to earn AP. Will attract more people to IC which has been dead for ages now.

Yes totally! Which I'm super happy about. But should it count towards your title progression? Is it fair to the people who have spent an endless amount of hours getting up to Grand Overlord?

Dude I'm no PVPer but this has happened everywhere. I got my caltrops, vigor and warhorn long before they lowered it. It's about the same with pre cp leveling. They are catering to a more casual crowd. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. 1T did bring life back into the game. And no offense but this is the least of PVPer problems. How about getting you guys some new content, fixing lag and proc sets?

That would be nice too!

andreasranasen · January 2017

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I like the change, easier to earn AP. Will attract more people to IC which has been dead for ages now.

Yes totally! Which I'm super happy about. But should it count towards your title progression? Is it fair to the people who have spent an endless amount of hours getting up to Grand Overlord?

Why wouldn't it? You could say the same about the doubling of ap gains a year ago. Wasn't that unfair to everyone else with high ranks?
Changes happen, there is nothing wrong with that. And that bit of AP won't make it much easier to reach GO. So you don't need to worry.

People complain they don't do anything for PVP. They make a PVP change and they complain about the change. What is it, you want changes or not. Some times the changes made are to help get more players into a specific area of the game. For instance OT was designed to get higher character in lower areas. It was also designed to get more people to play lower level characters, etc..This change may help get more player and new players over to PVP, that is a good thing, isn't it?

Trust me I'm all for change. And I don't know how many times I can say it, but I'm very excited about having more AP to spend. But I don't think all that AP should go towards your Alliance Rank progression.

Same with VMA. Some people may want to make it easier so people can get Stormproof and Flawless. But instead we should keep the difficulty and just add a token system so the rewards will be easier to get.

Same in this scenario. Add a better PvP rewards system, but don't make the title progression easier.

TequilaFire · January 2017

This is something that should have been done a long time ago, this or make alliance rank account wide.
Yeah on some of my characters I had to put more time in, but this is nothing new in the MMO world.
At least I can rank up faster on my newer alts.
Now if only the higher alliance ranks rewarded something other than bragging rights.

Zvorgin · January 2017

Also incentivizes people to get out of the inner circle of keeps and flip resources at the keeps on the exterior of the map. Anything that spreads out the zergs by offering objectives is a good thing.

Drummerx04 · January 2017

Honestly, if they put an AP cooldown timer on the objectives, that would pretty much solve the problem for me. After taking an objective, the AP dispensed does gradually climbs back up to full AP over about 5-10 minutes.

On an active server, the constant resource flipping will annoy some people who will then roll in to kill the "cooperative farmers"

Karius_Imalthar · January 2017

I approve of the changes to increase AP gains for doing what is supposed to be done in Cyrodiil, capture keeps and resources. It has felt like the only people really being rewarded with AP are the solo gankers that give no f's about the campaign or defending keeps etc.