It finally happened!

babedenny · January 2017

o0Sovjet0o wrote: »

Guilds that have Administrations and Public Relations are too much of real life stay away from it

Next thing you know they'll have an HR department, and it's all downhill from there...

UrQuan · January 2017

Renoaku_ESO wrote: »

As for people raging lol you have never seen me when I rage, I actually go off more than just writing a text post, I have over 1000 VPN servers, proxies, and I am not afraid to go troll, and stir *** up when a Guild Leader actually decides to be a ***, Luckily I have only ran into one of those in the past 5 years, and I put them all in their place still have all the evidence against the said guild, and Audio / Video Records too...

This part right here makes me believe that the real root of the problem was your attitude. You said in the thread starter that they hated you. People are less likely to cut someone some slack if they don't like them. It's human nature. And frankly, if the way you interacted with your guild bore any resemblance to the way you're comporting yourself here (with the above quote being an example) it wouldn't be surprising if they didn't like you.

Edit: and I got confused and mixed up the person I was quoting with OP. I take back what I said above, as it was based entirely on my confusion around who was saying what.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

Renoaku_ESO wrote: »

As for people raging lol you have never seen me when I rage, I actually go off more than just writing a text post, I have over 1000 VPN servers, proxies, and I am not afraid to go troll, and stir *** up when a Guild Leader actually decides to be a ***, Luckily I have only ran into one of those in the past 5 years, and I put them all in their place still have all the evidence against the said guild, and Audio / Video Records too...

This part right here makes me believe that the real root of the problem was your attitude. You said in the thread starter that they hated you. People are less likely to cut someone some slack if they don't like them. It's human nature. And frankly, if the way you interacted with your guild bore any resemblance to the way you're comporting yourself here (with the above quote being an example) it wouldn't be surprising if they didn't like you.

???
@Renoaku_ESO = / = OP...

DragonBound · January 2017

magnusthorek wrote: »

TL;DR

Elitism is a cancerous evil and caused my removal of an endgame Guild. Now move a long

I've been finally kicked of the end-game guild I was member for almost one year because because of technical details: I didn't manage to get a score against a dungeon boss that helps nothing against the real deal (trial bosses).

The "administration" always announced that Magicka players should achieve at least 30k as DPS while Stamina, 38k. When they first "threatened" purging the guild towards their elitism numbers I was really bad, barely reaching 18k.

Then I improved A LOT getting a DPS mark floating from 32k and up to 41k (once) against trial bosses on veteran difficult (32k was an HM run with a training group). Heck... even the first and only time I did vMoL I've got 35k, even not knowing the slightly different mechanics, learning them just-in-time.

With those results I was happy!

But then came the unnecessary test against an unreasonable and very situational dungeon boss and, although those marks were publicly announced, through mass mails, secretly, behind the scenes, the real goal was 35k for Magicka players. And this unbuffed!

I was reluctant on doing a DPS test under such circumstances. It didn't make sense! I've sent several DPS parses of important bosses (Warrior, Mage, in between mini-bosses...) and all of them were rejected because "they had adds numbers" even though there were no influence of them on data (only boss name in the reports). But I did my part. i gave up and did the "test" and, when I finally got a DPS Test group after spent THE WHOLE WEEK asking (since we had a deadline tomorrow, Sunday), I didn't manage to get the numbers.

I could blame the group that came with me during the "test" but they're nice fellows and don't deserve that. Did they do a good job on buffs? Can't say, but my latency, although it shows a moderately low number everyday, is a liar and was the real villain to blame. Every action takes like 3 seconds to happen, today was even worse and not only with me. I 'learned to lag" in the course of months of course but, for example, I can't be part of this cancerous community that cancel animations without suffer a double bar swap.

Now the [Snip] in the fan part!

1) Earlier today the "administration" whispered me "intimidating" I had until tomorrow to present my results.

This is an international game and people live under different timezones, so much that my Aussie friends were celebrating new year before me. With this in mind, for example, to me, Sunday is tomorrow and I've been kicked 45 minutes ago, which still Saturday.

Theoretically I could change gears and try again tomorrow, but I didn't have the chance.

2) Because of my timezone and the impossibility of playing at night (for most of you) because the server gets too crowded (I've tested it once) I often miss A LOT of opportunities. The only time I managed to go vMoL I had to wake up VERY early to get the "end of dawn" of the guild.

3) During afternoon (here) which is when I usually play, I literally have to beg for pledges or trials for weekly and people don't even answer. I understand if people don't want to do or can't in that moment but why the silence?

4) A lot of players in this guild hated me. Even people that used to be friendly to me got so cocky because were considered member of a "core" group started to treat me bad. Some proofs:

- A couple weeks ago we were doing vHRC for weekly I think. I was in a group and when we finished the crown said something like "if you want to go again drop group, change toons and X up in guild". I did and never got the invitation back for a group I WAS ALREADY IN. they quickly filled the DPS role with someone else and didn't have even the decency to explain.

Another case, more recent. -

- Today morning a lot of good players online and my first guild message in chat was for a vMoL group for the weekly. everyone silent (again) but then 30 minutes later (I was more or less monitoring the Guild roster) they formed a group in secret (probably through whispers or TS) and did the weekly.

I don't know you but to me, in my country, this characterizes as being personal, but they were too coward to speak to me directly.

5) A long time ago a player joined a vAA group formed by someone else AFTER me. He took the lead and kicked me without reason. I asked why and he threw on my face I was a bad player because he happened to be in the same run I was when learning vAA, that back when the trials was rescaled in which I made mistakes (who don't while learning?). He had balls to do that, I admit, but I argued with him, explained I was learning and got back in the group. and to shut him up I did the whole place flawlessly.

Isn't this personal? I tried to contact the "public relations" of guild, giving my feedback and to make sure it would be read I asked a favor in the message. This favor never happened...

Anyway...

THE GUILD ASKED TOO MUCH AND PROVIDED TOO LITTLE

If you run or is member of a guild that does veteran trials at different periods of time (something around -5 hours from the time of this topic) and couldn't take the newest homeless DPS of Tamriel without such rudeness and cockiness, please let me know.

[Edited for bypassing the filter]

Oh my god what is wrong with these people? IT IS NOT A JOB, it is not real life, you are not getting paid for it who do they think they are lol? These people are insane I am sorry but they are clearly. What is the name of this guild so I can never group with them ever.

DragonBound · January 2017

Ibage wrote: »

I mean, that sucks and all, but if thats the way the GM wants to run it, thats on them. I dont know much about the endgame here, but Ive been part of the endgame scene in most MMOs Ive played. Some people dont want to deal with lower numbers. Thats their way of playing. Find a laid back guild and just enjoy the game. It is a game afterall. Play how you want, but respect others may have different wants than you

This, I have every right to completely dislike those people who cannot remember its a freaken game. I have zero, absolute zero respect for those people.

DragonBound · January 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TirvelBalen wrote: »

This sounds like a L2P issue.

"Don't associate with idiots obsessed with their ePeen?" Yeah, I guess.

This hateful and toxic attitude needs to stop tho.
People can play as they want in their guild. And if they demand dps tests, its their right and it doesnt make them bad people. In fact, they can be very friendly (at least I havent seen too many "idiots, obsessed their epeens" in "elite" guilds; but there's plenty in group finder and semi-casual guilds).
Its NORMAL for guilds to have rules. They exist even in rp guilds, and even in rp guilds if there's a conflict, someone might end up being kicked. And complaining about having a dps test in trial guild is like complaining about having to act "in character" in rp guilds.
This is either a troll post or something really emotional, and we dont actually know what happened. I really doubt OP tells us the whole story - who in their right mind would kick a good player that can improve? Trial community in this game is pretty small and the situation OP describes is far from typical.
But well, people see the mention of feared "dps check!!!!!111" and go full berserk mode, without even trying to figure out what actually happened, what kind of guild that was etc. This is just blind hate, and those people arent better than any pug elitists. Theyre jsut driven by assumptions. And that is extremely bad for our community. All those assumptions... Like, your cp is lower than 300? GTFO, scrub! You like to rp? Stupid lunatic! *throwing mudballs* Ah, you want to check dps? Burn in hell, elitist! Its all the same. And its sad tbh.
And if you're assuming things based on someone's emotional outburst (or, even better, a troll post), you're a part of the issue.

I do not agree, people who expect certain dps numbers to the extent of that kind of elitism shows there maturity in gaming in general, there are many ways to tackle gameplay, it shows your not willing to work outside the box, yes it is their guild but that does not mean they are any less crappy people with elitism attitude.

DragonBound · January 2017

RazorCaltrops wrote: »

If you don't feel that you have a common goal with your guildmates, just leave it otherwise both sides will get pissed off. Some people have fun by progressing, pushing their limits etc. and its their right (play the way you want anyone ?)

Especially if you're in a PVE guild there are (and should be) strict rules like participating, raid times etc. which are vital because you cannot replace anyone in certain situations. I've seen people who go to work with 2 hours sleep because of the timezone, just to achieve something serious. And i've seen people who doesn't "feel motivated today" for a score run and ruin the day of the core group for no reason.

TLDR: if you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen.

Pushing your own limits is different then trying to control what everyone elses limits are, that is not their right period. You people have some really messed up backwards views, do you also control what your friends do when you goes go out?

Ghost-Shot · January 2017

Maybe you aren't cut out for an end game guild that's trying to be competitive, there's nothing wrong with it but the casual raid guilds might be better suited for you.

UrQuan · January 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Renoaku_ESO wrote: »

As for people raging lol you have never seen me when I rage, I actually go off more than just writing a text post, I have over 1000 VPN servers, proxies, and I am not afraid to go troll, and stir *** up when a Guild Leader actually decides to be a ***, Luckily I have only ran into one of those in the past 5 years, and I put them all in their place still have all the evidence against the said guild, and Audio / Video Records too...

This part right here makes me believe that the real root of the problem was your attitude. You said in the thread starter that they hated you. People are less likely to cut someone some slack if they don't like them. It's human nature. And frankly, if the way you interacted with your guild bore any resemblance to the way you're comporting yourself here (with the above quote being an example) it wouldn't be surprising if they didn't like you.

???
@Renoaku_ESO = / = OP...

lol oops, total fail on my part. Thanks for letting me know @anitajoneb17_ESO!

Apologies OP, I mixed you up with the person I was quoting. I retract what I said entirely, as it wasn't even your post that made me think maybe it was obvious why they didn't like you! My bad!

Syrani · January 2017

For all the people saying a game is "supposed to be fun" and "it's not a job!" - you have to realize that "fun" is subjective. For some people, the challenging content that forces you and your team to play your best IS fun. For some, it's FUN to work out tactics, it's fun to build a team that synergizes perfectly, it's fun to push your skill to the limit. I personally enjoy this kind of gameplay - it's why I play. What I do not find fun is questing, RPing, working the market, etc. Because I don't find those things "fun", I don't join questing guilds, or trade guilds, or RP guilds.

If you get infuriated by the notion that a guild would require DPS thresholds or perfect handling of mechanics, then I can assume you do not find that kind of thing fun. Therefore, you would not join a guild like that. Berating someone because they like that kind of thing is the same as berating someone who likes to RP or quest. Everyone has different tastes, and the guild he was in is no different than a questing guild. People are in that guild because they find it fun.

Shazgob · January 2017

mb10 wrote: »

I personally refuse to ever do a DPS test. It's not a job interview, its a dungeon or trial on the Elder Scrolls Online.

Not sure what makes some losers think that people need to prove themselves to them when most the time they arent that good themselves and horrible leaders with poor social skills on mics.

You can tell what type of people these are in real life and for that reason, I will never feel the need to prove myself to them.

(Harsh, I know but not as harsh as their attitude towards some players)

Spoken like someone who will never be taken into Vet Maw. You feel you don't need to prove yourself to earn your spot, and raid leaders feel we don't have time to test out weird ass builds that we already know won't work. Typically I find when people won't do a dps test it's because they already know that they can't reach the designated benchmarks, which is fine, but don't try to put it off like it 'doesn't matter', in the case of Vet Maw of Lorkhaj, both high DPS and high amounts of personal play skill are imperative to completion.

luen79rwb17_ESO · January 2017

This was a nice story. Thanks for sharing it and good luck on your runs!

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

...and I have. Guilds that you might be categorizing as "semi-casual," but think of themselves as "the best of the best."

It doesnt matter what they think, leaderboard scores dont lie.

At this point, the question becomes, "are those rules being administered fairly." Setting up a DPS threshold, and then turning around and having a different, higher, number that the applicant actually needs to hit is not administering those rules fairly. This is because it gives them room to scrub people they don't like who passed, while retaining people they prefer who failed to hit the hidden value.

Thing is, we only know the half of this story.
And it was told in a very emotional way. So there's a possibility that OP is exaggerating things/doesnt tell everything - he's clearly angry and everything he says about that guild is very negative. Why would he want to stay in that guild if he hated being there and was (according to him) misjudged?
He says that people from this guild didnt want to do weeklies with him etc... Sounds like there was a conflict and dps might've been just an excuse to kick him.
Maybe not, of course. But again, we only see the half of the story.

Which is why, I'm more inclined to chuck this one into the pile of players trying to pass themselves off as far more elite than they actually are.

Again, I do find the entire scenario entirely plausible, because people like that do exist in game. Sure, the OP could be trolling, or failing to give us all the information, it's somewhat unlikely he has all the information anyway. But, even an incomplete accounting is pretty damning, and there's no reason to assume that knowing "the rest of the story" would be exculpatory.

Well, some posts in this thread suggest that it was one of the best guilds on this server.
I dont know the situation on NA server, but from my experience with EU raiding community, most of competitive players are very demanding but at the same time really friendly.
Raiding community (on both servers) is very small, and if something like the situation OP described would be common, everyone would know about that.
OP said that guild members disliked him and didnt want to play with him. Things like this just dont happen out of the blue and that makes me think this is not the whole story.

Personally, I was responding to the part where the test actually had a hidden threshold required to pass, which I mentioned earlier.

I wasnt responding only to your post. There's plenty of similar posts in this thread.

No, I'm taking the OP's narrative at face value. That's not an assumption. Stating the OP must be lying, because no one could ever be that heartless/kraven/whatever, would be an assumption in the absence of facts.

Now, automatically assuming the OP is a liar, and vigorously attacking them in a public space? Yeah, that's not doing the community many favors. Particularly because there are bad actors out there.

Im not saying OP is lying. Im saying that the story just doesnt add up.
OP is very angry and describes the whole guild as "evil elitists". At the same time he's unhappy about being removed from said guild, even though people in that guild didnt want to play with him anyway.
And more importantly, why post this on forums? Just to shittalk his former guild?

Yeah, this actually happens. You'll see threads complaining about it in general boards all the time. Usually with titles like, "the activity finder's lockout needs to go."

This is also what's known as a straw man fallacy. No one is bringing up low CP characters except you. Why? Because you don't have a legitimate argument against this behavior that extends beyond crawling into a corner and saying, "I need something I can definitively win against."

Good job, you've now erected a straw man in the field you can beat on for hours.

I mean, "evil elitist" is absolutely the same straw man. Same as my other examples.
Some people in this thread just put labels on OP's former guild and started bashing them. Even though we dont know their opinion on the matter.

Nah. There's certainly a place for that. Particularly if it's being used as a tool to help players get better. But, when you've got guild leadership demanding one number, and secretly requiring another, that's a problem. It's not about elitism, at that point. It's about a guild having absolutely terrible transparency.

I would have agreed, if that was the only thing in OP's post and comments.
But he also says that he was rejected by guildies in different situations, which is not something that would happen out of the blue. Even more so, he says a lot of players in the guild hated him.

Sinthrax · January 2017

Lavum wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

Lavum wrote: »

I'm wondering if this post and some of the responses is a troll.

I would not be surprised if this was a true story.

The flip side of the coin, of course, is that we didn't get the entire story and the guild may have had an entirely different point of view, equally legitimate as that of the OP. No one wants to paint themselves in a negative light. That is why you can never understand what really happens unless you are the unfortunate person who is caught in the middle.

The sad thing is that the guild is painted like a bunch of *** or insane elitists. But I have been in a few top end guilds and the attitude described is night/day from my experience. Can't DPS? learn to Tank/Heal. Can't DPS, get better. Loosing ppl is not the aim of most guilds. I think quite a few ppl who posted before be hit some great points. And i do agree Tabby, we didn't get the whole story.

Why is this so hard to believe? Are you not playing the same game as me. It happens when people want 561CP to do vet dungeons. I see it in chat all the time. Its not about who is right or wrong but you try to sway the validity of the post like it isnt a thing. It absolutely is.

Esquire1980g_ESO · January 2017

Syrani wrote: »

For all the people saying a game is "supposed to be fun" and "it's not a job!" - you have to realize that "fun" is subjective. For some people, the challenging content that forces you and your team to play your best IS fun. For some, it's FUN to work out tactics, it's fun to build a team that synergizes perfectly, it's fun to push your skill to the limit. I personally enjoy this kind of gameplay - it's why I play. What I do not find fun is questing, RPing, working the market, etc. Because I don't find those things "fun", I don't join questing guilds, or trade guilds, or RP guilds.

If you get infuriated by the notion that a guild would require DPS thresholds or perfect handling of mechanics, then I can assume you do not find that kind of thing fun. Therefore, you would not join a guild like that. Berating someone because they like that kind of thing is the same as berating someone who likes to RP or quest. Everyone has different tastes, and the guild he was in is no different than a questing guild. People are in that guild because they find it fun.

I've found it's pretty easy to have both via design.

I played SWG, a bunch, and I PVE-ed and PVP-ed pretty much the entire time, still do. I found the exact "fun" you've spoken about in PVP. Getting my group to work together, bringing in the right professions where and when they should be, I even paid for my 1st vent server way back when to do just that. And in PVP, we weren't fighting against the same exact AI every time so we knew where to stand, not where to stand, which rock to get behind, when the "big-hit" was going to come, etc etc etc. That pushed ev1 to the limit, we found tactics and builds that helped our success, and ev1 had that "fun" while we were doing it. And, it gated nobody from the game or content while doing it.

Now, the challenge in PVE came the 1st time when my entire group whipped, except me, in HK and ev1 whipped in a DF2 group except me and a smuggler. The smug and I went on to complete the instance. We just had to think a bit more about pulls, LOS, heals (no medic), etc etc etc. The HK run, I ended up getting cloned on the last boss (HK), but I got sooo close I tried it again and made it. The "risk v reward", for me at least, was I didn't have to roll on HK's drops and I got it all. Now, an instance designed for a 8 person group, soloed, was more than enough fun, challenge, and bragging rights for me at least.

MMOs are going, somewhat, back to this concept, only they're doing it with easy, hard, and nightmare modes on the same instances. The problem here is their concept of "risk v reward" via making the drops "better" (which usually includes....... uhhh....., more DPS) to get people to play this increased difficulty thereby increasing the gap between the minority (the min-maxers) and the majority (the guys who just play the game and don't worry about the best of every slot). So, the next version of hard/nightmare has to be even more difficult/hitpoints/defense to counter that new "sword with the right trait on it" the additional damage included therein, that dropped before to make up for the last bit of DPS you added. This is the way "power creep" is added, and added, and added, and added.

In a game like SWG, where you have design docs that state crafters will always be the BiS, developers don't have that drop DPS mentality anyway. And, the gear gets thrown into the in-game economy and not having the players who just want to be crafters left out in the cold. Much less players complaining about "the never ending gear grind" that seems to happen again every 3 months or so.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2017

Sinthrax wrote: »

It happens when people want 561CP to do vet dungeons. I see it in chat all the time.

That's (imho) entirely different. Someone requiring 561CP from others for a vet dungeon is a plain idiot, first because 561CP means nothing in terms of "performance", and second, because no particular "performance" is required to complete vet dungeons.

A competitive endgame guild, aka known as "progression guild", that requires 30K or 35K DPS from its team member makes totally sense. Because that level of DPS is required to reach top positions in the leaderboards. As long as they say it clearly and don't advertise that "every player is welcome", it's perfectly fine. If you are of those players (like me) who aren't interested in that sort of "performance" nothing forces you to join these progression guilds.

As I said earlier, the real problem is not with progression guilds that advertise and manage themselves as such. The real problem is with the casual or semi-casual guild where a handful of people start filtering out the whole guild based on performances that were not required originally, and start excluding people who have been part of the guild for a long time.

ForsakenSin · January 2017

magnusthorek wrote: »

TL;DR

Elitism is a cancerous evil and caused my removal of an endgame Guild. Now move a long

I've been finally kicked of the end-game guild I was member for almost one year because because of technical details: I didn't manage to get a score against a dungeon boss that helps nothing against the real deal (trial bosses).

The "administration" always announced that Magicka players should achieve at least 30k as DPS while Stamina, 38k. When they first "threatened" purging the guild towards their elitism numbers I was really bad, barely reaching 18k.

Then I improved A LOT getting a DPS mark floating from 32k and up to 41k (once) against trial bosses on veteran difficult (32k was an HM run with a training group). Heck... even the first and only time I did vMoL I've got 35k, even not knowing the slightly different mechanics, learning them just-in-time.

With those results I was happy!

But then came the unnecessary test against an unreasonable and very situational dungeon boss and, although those marks were publicly announced, through mass mails, secretly, behind the scenes, the real goal was 35k for Magicka players. And this unbuffed!

I was reluctant on doing a DPS test under such circumstances. It didn't make sense! I've sent several DPS parses of important bosses (Warrior, Mage, in between mini-bosses...) and all of them were rejected because "they had adds numbers" even though there were no influence of them on data (only boss name in the reports). But I did my part. i gave up and did the "test" and, when I finally got a DPS Test group after spent THE WHOLE WEEK asking (since we had a deadline tomorrow, Sunday), I didn't manage to get the numbers.

I could blame the group that came with me during the "test" but they're nice fellows and don't deserve that. Did they do a good job on buffs? Can't say, but my latency, although it shows a moderately low number everyday, is a liar and was the real villain to blame. Every action takes like 3 seconds to happen, today was even worse and not only with me. I 'learned to lag" in the course of months of course but, for example, I can't be part of this cancerous community that cancel animations without suffer a double bar swap.

Now the [Snip] in the fan part!

1) Earlier today the "administration" whispered me "intimidating" I had until tomorrow to present my results.

This is an international game and people live under different timezones, so much that my Aussie friends were celebrating new year before me. With this in mind, for example, to me, Sunday is tomorrow and I've been kicked 45 minutes ago, which still Saturday.

Theoretically I could change gears and try again tomorrow, but I didn't have the chance.

2) Because of my timezone and the impossibility of playing at night (for most of you) because the server gets too crowded (I've tested it once) I often miss A LOT of opportunities. The only time I managed to go vMoL I had to wake up VERY early to get the "end of dawn" of the guild.

3) During afternoon (here) which is when I usually play, I literally have to beg for pledges or trials for weekly and people don't even answer. I understand if people don't want to do or can't in that moment but why the silence?

4) A lot of players in this guild hated me. Even people that used to be friendly to me got so cocky because were considered member of a "core" group started to treat me bad. Some proofs:

- A couple weeks ago we were doing vHRC for weekly I think. I was in a group and when we finished the crown said something like "if you want to go again drop group, change toons and X up in guild". I did and never got the invitation back for a group I WAS ALREADY IN. they quickly filled the DPS role with someone else and didn't have even the decency to explain.

Another case, more recent. -

- Today morning a lot of good players online and my first guild message in chat was for a vMoL group for the weekly. everyone silent (again) but then 30 minutes later (I was more or less monitoring the Guild roster) they formed a group in secret (probably through whispers or TS) and did the weekly.

I don't know you but to me, in my country, this characterizes as being personal, but they were too coward to speak to me directly.

5) A long time ago a player joined a vAA group formed by someone else AFTER me. He took the lead and kicked me without reason. I asked why and he threw on my face I was a bad player because he happened to be in the same run I was when learning vAA, that back when the trials was rescaled in which I made mistakes (who don't while learning?). He had balls to do that, I admit, but I argued with him, explained I was learning and got back in the group. and to shut him up I did the whole place flawlessly.

Isn't this personal? I tried to contact the "public relations" of guild, giving my feedback and to make sure it would be read I asked a favor in the message. This favor never happened...

Anyway...

THE GUILD ASKED TOO MUCH AND PROVIDED TOO LITTLE

If you run or is member of a guild that does veteran trials at different periods of time (something around -5 hours from the time of this topic) and couldn't take the newest homeless DPS of Tamriel without such rudeness and cockiness, please let me know.

[Edited for bypassing the filter]

And this is why we can't have nice things

LOL i can't believe there are actually guilds like that .... feels like another job ... lol ...

as mentioned once i formed a random group together and it was random cp and we finished it LOL

One of the guilds im in we just place on chat doing trials or ver trials and people just join and we finish it no DPS tests needed ever. [/s]

After reading the reply of the actually guild members in question i will admit when im wrong in taking just one sided , this is the way the guild is set up for end game and they had rules and expectations.

Sheyta · January 2017

O Guilds like that seem to fall after a while.

There is alot of other guilds out there I hope ?

DragonBound · January 2017

Syrani wrote: »

For all the people saying a game is "supposed to be fun" and "it's not a job!" - you have to realize that "fun" is subjective. For some people, the challenging content that forces you and your team to play your best IS fun. For some, it's FUN to work out tactics, it's fun to build a team that synergizes perfectly, it's fun to push your skill to the limit. I personally enjoy this kind of gameplay - it's why I play. What I do not find fun is questing, RPing, working the market, etc. Because I don't find those things "fun", I don't join questing guilds, or trade guilds, or RP guilds.

If you get infuriated by the notion that a guild would require DPS thresholds or perfect handling of mechanics, then I can assume you do not find that kind of thing fun. Therefore, you would not join a guild like that. Berating someone because they like that kind of thing is the same as berating someone who likes to RP or quest. Everyone has different tastes, and the guild he was in is no different than a questing guild. People are in that guild because they find it fun.

Your missing my point, I did not say it cannot be fun to do challenging content and try to do it smoothly but when it start threatening people to push a specific dps to the that point then it is a job, I do not care if you sit on your butt and do not work all day and have nothing better to do then play, you have no right to try to push that on other people. Also there should be a requirement but not to the extreme that is closed minded, and I will be infuriated by it rather you like it or not.

I doubt those people find it fun, the main reason why people join those guilds is because they like being competitive it does not mean they enjoy being yelled at and threatened to kick if they do not stay up all night and work on their dps, this is when it becomes to involved in real life, this is when it becomes a problem, there should never ever be a reason to be screw up real life over a freaken video game period, there is literally no excuse, these kinds of people need to grow up.

DragonBound · January 2017

Shazgob wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

I personally refuse to ever do a DPS test. It's not a job interview, its a dungeon or trial on the Elder Scrolls Online.

Not sure what makes some losers think that people need to prove themselves to them when most the time they arent that good themselves and horrible leaders with poor social skills on mics.

You can tell what type of people these are in real life and for that reason, I will never feel the need to prove myself to them.

(Harsh, I know but not as harsh as their attitude towards some players)

Spoken like someone who will never be taken into Vet Maw. You feel you don't need to prove yourself to earn your spot, and raid leaders feel we don't have time to test out weird ass builds that we already know won't work. Typically I find when people won't do a dps test it's because they already know that they can't reach the designated benchmarks, which is fine, but don't try to put it off like it 'doesn't matter', in the case of Vet Maw of Lorkhaj, both high DPS and high amounts of personal play skill are imperative to completion.

There is big difference in testing people who are pushing enough dps vs not pushing the absolute mix max amount. You sound like you do not do real life.

radiospam · January 2017

I was also in the guild OP is mentioning. I left. I was doing a disservice to them by not being able to commit to raids. I wasn't participating as much as I needed to.

I don't see how you call them elitist for publicly announcing their intentions for guild reform. We were all given many chances to parse and ask for help. The people there would have been more than glad to help you progress and be productive. You simply chose not to.

Druachan · January 2017

Ah the joy of playing a GAME to please others.

Lukums1 · January 2017

magnusthorek wrote: »

TL;DR

Elitism is a cancerous evil and caused my removal of an endgame Guild. Now move a long

I've been finally kicked of the end-game guild I was member for almost one year because because of technical details: I didn't manage to get a score against a dungeon boss that helps nothing against the real deal (trial bosses).

The "administration" always announced that Magicka players should achieve at least 30k as DPS while Stamina, 38k. When they first "threatened" purging the guild towards their elitism numbers I was really bad, barely reaching 18k.

Then I improved A LOT getting a DPS mark floating from 32k and up to 41k (once) against trial bosses on veteran difficult (32k was an HM run with a training group). Heck... even the first and only time I did vMoL I've got 35k, even not knowing the slightly different mechanics, learning them just-in-time.

With those results I was happy!

But then came the unnecessary test against an unreasonable and very situational dungeon boss and, although those marks were publicly announced, through mass mails, secretly, behind the scenes, the real goal was 35k for Magicka players. And this unbuffed!

I was reluctant on doing a DPS test under such circumstances. It didn't make sense! I've sent several DPS parses of important bosses (Warrior, Mage, in between mini-bosses...) and all of them were rejected because "they had adds numbers" even though there were no influence of them on data (only boss name in the reports). But I did my part. i gave up and did the "test" and, when I finally got a DPS Test group after spent THE WHOLE WEEK asking (since we had a deadline tomorrow, Sunday), I didn't manage to get the numbers.

I could blame the group that came with me during the "test" but they're nice fellows and don't deserve that. Did they do a good job on buffs? Can't say, but my latency, although it shows a moderately low number everyday, is a liar and was the real villain to blame. Every action takes like 3 seconds to happen, today was even worse and not only with me. I 'learned to lag" in the course of months of course but, for example, I can't be part of this cancerous community that cancel animations without suffer a double bar swap.

Now the [Snip] in the fan part!

1) Earlier today the "administration" whispered me "intimidating" I had until tomorrow to present my results.

This is an international game and people live under different timezones, so much that my Aussie friends were celebrating new year before me. With this in mind, for example, to me, Sunday is tomorrow and I've been kicked 45 minutes ago, which still Saturday.

Theoretically I could change gears and try again tomorrow, but I didn't have the chance.

2) Because of my timezone and the impossibility of playing at night (for most of you) because the server gets too crowded (I've tested it once) I often miss A LOT of opportunities. The only time I managed to go vMoL I had to wake up VERY early to get the "end of dawn" of the guild.

3) During afternoon (here) which is when I usually play, I literally have to beg for pledges or trials for weekly and people don't even answer. I understand if people don't want to do or can't in that moment but why the silence?

4) A lot of players in this guild hated me. Even people that used to be friendly to me got so cocky because were considered member of a "core" group started to treat me bad. Some proofs:

- A couple weeks ago we were doing vHRC for weekly I think. I was in a group and when we finished the crown said something like "if you want to go again drop group, change toons and X up in guild". I did and never got the invitation back for a group I WAS ALREADY IN. they quickly filled the DPS role with someone else and didn't have even the decency to explain.

Another case, more recent. -

- Today morning a lot of good players online and my first guild message in chat was for a vMoL group for the weekly. everyone silent (again) but then 30 minutes later (I was more or less monitoring the Guild roster) they formed a group in secret (probably through whispers or TS) and did the weekly.

I don't know you but to me, in my country, this characterizes as being personal, but they were too coward to speak to me directly.

5) A long time ago a player joined a vAA group formed by someone else AFTER me. He took the lead and kicked me without reason. I asked why and he threw on my face I was a bad player because he happened to be in the same run I was when learning vAA, that back when the trials was rescaled in which I made mistakes (who don't while learning?). He had balls to do that, I admit, but I argued with him, explained I was learning and got back in the group. and to shut him up I did the whole place flawlessly.

Isn't this personal? I tried to contact the "public relations" of guild, giving my feedback and to make sure it would be read I asked a favor in the message. This favor never happened...

Anyway...

THE GUILD ASKED TOO MUCH AND PROVIDED TOO LITTLE

If you run or is member of a guild that does veteran trials at different periods of time (something around -5 hours from the time of this topic) and couldn't take the newest homeless DPS of Tamriel without such rudeness and cockiness, please let me know.

[Edited for bypassing the filter]

And this is why I love my core Vet Trial Group on PS4 - Australians.

This is exactly why we do this *** ourselves haha.

Zoner · January 2017

It sounds like OP may not have been taking build advice from his guild as well.

Bottom line - you can use whatever gear and rotation you like, but you have to understand that they aren't obligated to take you on raids or keep you in guild, especially if they have made clear that they need X from a player and you haven't been able to provide it.

Top end raid guilds become that way through effort, coordination and attention to detail. Every person in the raid is doing everything possible to maximise results. There is no 'carry'.

You are absolutely entitled to play however you like. They are absolutely entitled to replace you with someone who better suits their needs.

DragonBound · January 2017

Zoner wrote: »

It sounds like OP may not have been taking build advice from his guild as well.

Bottom line - you can use whatever gear and rotation you like, but you have to understand that they aren't obligated to take you on raids or keep you in guild, especially if they have made clear that they need X from a player and you haven't been able to provide it.

Top end raid guilds become that way through effort, coordination and attention to detail. Every person in the raid is doing everything possible to maximise results. There is no 'carry'.

You are absolutely entitled to play however you like. They are absolutely entitled to replace you with someone who better suits their needs.

Running a guild is not really about self needs.

Saturn · January 2017

What I don't understand is that you said people in the guild hated you, why the f*** would you stay with them then? That just seems extremely stupid. If there's one thing that's certain, it's that there are plently of PvE guilds who do trials and dungeons without slapping on ridiculous requirements.

I'm pretty sure I know what guild you are talking about, and I kind of expected this to happen with their members (not you specifically) since they recently upped their requirements to crazy heights.

reesenorman · January 2017

Its really tough to pull 30k.

thedude33 · January 2017

mb10 wrote: »

I personally refuse to ever do a DPS test. It's not a job interview, its a dungeon or trial on the Elder Scrolls Online.

Not sure what makes some losers think that people need to prove themselves to them when most the time they arent that good themselves and horrible leaders with poor social skills on mics.

You can tell what type of people these are in real life and for that reason, I will never feel the need to prove myself to them.

(Harsh, I know but not as harsh as their attitude towards some players)

Not harsh at all. There is enough drama in RL. Why subject yourself to it in game.

The irony is in RL, some of those 'l33ts' in your guild are guys you would laugh at and mock in high school ...and pretty much ignore as you got older

Glurin · January 2017

reesenorman wrote: »

Its really tough to pull 30k.

Homestead patch notes: "Radiant Destruction: Decreased the damage from this ability and its morphs by approximately 21%."

thedude33 · January 2017

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

OP, while people can certainly be a bit more rude on the net than they would be in person (I'll let others try to figure out why), this is not entirely the fault of the players. This is not a problem caused by players, the main root of the problem rests with developers and design of the game in the 1st place. Players react to the design/development and this is what you end up with. In ZOS' defense tho, it's not only them that have made and re-made this mistake, most of them do it. ZOS is just following suit.....

.

True, but a bit misleading. I have played these type of games since Everquest and it's the same thing every single time.

Say there are 8 classes A thru H. After a few months of trial and error the community figures out that A,B,C and D are the best classes and combo to get things done the quickest ( Min/Maxers)

Then the developer makes some adjustments. Tones some classes down, boosts other classes. The min/maxers decide that now the best 4 classes are A,D, F and H. Rest need to apply.

That's the paradox for min/maxers. There will always be the best class/combo. Even if they are only 3% better than the rest. That is the whole point of min/maxers.

There is nothing a game developer can do about that.