leepalmer95 wrote: »

BossXV wrote: »

BossXV wrote: »

So for PvP 5 heavy-1-1? For undaunted mettle
Is it the same for tanking or all heavy?

Anyone?

For heavy either 5/1/1 or 5/2

Personally i'd go 5/1/1.

Also to all the people saying heavy isn't op please go make me a medium build that runs around with 600 regen and has perfect sustain. Because i can do that on a 5x heavy full damage set up.

Medium will give up armor pieces/ glyph's/ enchants for more hp and at least 2k~ recovery. Heavy puts on 5 heavy has high enough hp just off 5x heavy and then can spec 100% into damage.

Wraith gives similar damage to the medium passive of 12%, that medium passives gives 12% of your BASE weapon damage. Not buffed with major/minor brutality or passives. Sure you lose like 50-100 weapon damage at most. Thats it.

Also wraith will be fully up easily 90% of a fight if you actually pvp and don't run around in a 40 man group chasing down solo players. It proc's off ANY damage, any dot, any aoe etc... all refresh the timer.

I have already done that on my medium armor stamina sorc,

45K Stam

4200 WD

500 stamina Regen( can't get any lower)

And can sustain forever.

Cheap spammable skills cheap roll dodge cheap sneak extra CRIT etc.

Sounds like a L2P issue for you.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Isellskooma wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

The only reason heavy is strong is because it allows the actual skilled players to not get insta gibbed from a gank. They then reset and return the favour then proceed to open up their steel hatch, pull out their sweaty nut sack and dip onto the gankers corpse. This heavy is op meta on the forums is created by these very unskilled players who rely on the element of surprise to hide their lack of skill, and they are upset.

Fortunately Zos once posted saying there are still more medium and light wearers in cyrodiil and wont listen to these terrible trolls.

That should be the purpose of heavy, be tanky. But right now you have everything in heavy, you got damage, stupid sustain. The health and resistance is perfect to me since tanks need that. But why on earth do I hit harder with heavy + and sustain with 570 regen? It's so easy mode.

Well that's weird I mean I tried to run a trial in my OP heavy armour set up but got kicked, I tried to tell them that heavy OP and better then medium in everything according to the forums whiners but they laughed at me and called me stupid.

Yeah... this is one time where I'd trust the intelligence of the pug over the forum's population. And you cannot imagine how much it irks me to type that.

The whole heavy armor > medium armor for stamina DPS is only true in a very narrow set of circumstances, with a very specific set of builds. Outside of that, it's trash tier choice for DPS. Probably in a surprise to no one, one of the times it shines is in large scale PvP, where the survivability and the passives work together to make something formidable. Outside of that, even in trials, it's value starts to rapidly diminish. But, we have a lot of dedicated PvPers on the boards, who are very committed to their build, and tend to have a fairly poor grasp of the game as a whole. So, in they come, proclaiming how great heavy armor without realizing it doesn't work exactly the way they're expecting outside of Cyrodiil.

starkerealm wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Isellskooma wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

The only reason heavy is strong is because it allows the actual skilled players to not get insta gibbed from a gank. They then reset and return the favour then proceed to open up their steel hatch, pull out their sweaty nut sack and dip onto the gankers corpse. This heavy is op meta on the forums is created by these very unskilled players who rely on the element of surprise to hide their lack of skill, and they are upset.

Fortunately Zos once posted saying there are still more medium and light wearers in cyrodiil and wont listen to these terrible trolls.

That should be the purpose of heavy, be tanky. But right now you have everything in heavy, you got damage, stupid sustain. The health and resistance is perfect to me since tanks need that. But why on earth do I hit harder with heavy + and sustain with 570 regen? It's so easy mode.

Well that's weird I mean I tried to run a trial in my OP heavy armour set up but got kicked, I tried to tell them that heavy OP and better then medium in everything according to the forums whiners but they laughed at me and called me stupid.

Yeah... this is one time where I'd trust the intelligence of the pug over the forum's population. And you cannot imagine how much it irks me to type that.

The whole heavy armor > medium armor for stamina DPS is only true in a very narrow set of circumstances, with a very specific set of builds. Outside of that, it's trash tier choice for DPS. Probably in a surprise to no one, one of the times it shines is in large scale PvP, where the survivability and the passives work together to make something formidable. Outside of that, even in trials, it's value starts to rapidly diminish. But, we have a lot of dedicated PvPers on the boards, who are very committed to their build, and tend to have a fairly poor grasp of the game as a whole. So, in they come, proclaiming how great heavy armor without realizing it doesn't work exactly the way they're expecting outside of Cyrodiil.

Excellent post, I agree heavy armour is great don't get me wrong but IMO it's definitely not better then medium armor.

Well, I think 1 conclusion is they are both viable, the fact arguments go both way shows its fairly balanced ish

starkerealm wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, no matter what some trolls tell you here. The ability and dodge roll cost reduction alone on medium armor are already superior than Constitution, which requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it triggers one time in order to achieve its maximum power, and unlike some people like to think, this doesn't happen very frequently.

This Medium>Heavy cost reduction alone makes it Superior, plus sneak and dodge roll cost reduction.

Ppl that say heavy is OP are trolls or they need to L2P.

In a lot of cases, they're not actually trolls, just repeating what they were told by some very aggressive HA advocates.

Alot of us have switched to heavy armor and realize how much better it is than the other armor types. You aren't really losing out on any burst damage from switching over to heavy but you are getting great sustain, increased tankiness and op heals. There is no reason to not run heavy armor in PvP honestly. (unless you are a magsorc)

Wollust wrote: »

You would think people are intelligent enough to notice that the whole armor debate is purely related to PvP. Seems as if that's not the case.

No, I get that it's a PvP thing. The problem is, there are a lot of people taking HA into content in PvE, because they read on the forums about how great it is, and causing headaches for everyone involved. Which has lead to people unintelligibly regurgitating that Heavy Armor is the best choice for DPS in PvE content.

If you're a DPS in Cyrodiil, running heavy assaults, you really should be in Heavy Armor. I mean, I actually like that. It feels appropriate, and you can still drive a lot of damage. It's that threads, including this one, have been tossed into the general boards, and get picked up by people who are honestly trying to learn the game that bugs me.

Then you go into a PUG and play kick the Heavy Armor DPS.

Kadoozy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, no matter what some trolls tell you here. The ability and dodge roll cost reduction alone on medium armor are already superior than Constitution, which requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it triggers one time in order to achieve its maximum power, and unlike some people like to think, this doesn't happen very frequently.

This Medium>Heavy cost reduction alone makes it Superior, plus sneak and dodge roll cost reduction.

Ppl that say heavy is OP are trolls or they need to L2P.

In a lot of cases, they're not actually trolls, just repeating what they were told by some very aggressive HA advocates.

Except that's not true. I have played both medium and heavy. The only reason heavy is better is because of the resistances. Sustain and damage are so similar as to the point of being a non issue. The difference is I can survive ganks and multiple players easier in heavy and still burst enough to kill.

Sure you can lay down a lot of damage in medium and maybe have slightly more sustain. But you are squishy enough to be burst down by people in heavy armor so it doesn't matter.

By all means, keep playing medium and light. I prefer coming up against people that I can kill quickly. Makes it easier.

The difference is, you're talking about using in PvP. Which, yeah, I agree. Unfortunately, a lot of people do miss that point, and think you (or others offering similar advice) are talking about PvE.

Callous2208 wrote: »

I don't buy these numbers people are throwing out about medium armor usage in Cyro. I finally had to give up and go 5 heavy just to stand a chance against what in my opinion, is a majority population of heavy armored wrecking machines. Only full medium I come across is the occasional nb looking to insta gib someone auto running to the next keep.

Well look up a thread called "Hard Data" on page two @ZOS_RichLambert himself replied with the data.

In pvp players with 501+ CP wear mostly Light Armor

Medium Armor is second

Heavy is the least used, even with that data from the devs some of these troll insist on nerfing heavy armor.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

I don't buy these numbers people are throwing out about medium armor usage in Cyro. I finally had to give up and go 5 heavy just to stand a chance against what in my opinion, is a majority population of heavy armored wrecking machines. Only full medium I come across is the occasional nb looking to insta gib someone auto running to the next keep.

Well look up a thread called "Hard Data" on page two @ZOS_RichLambert himself replied with the data.

In pvp players with 501+ CP wear mostly Light Armor

Medium Armor is second

Heavy is the least used, even with that data from the devs some of these troll insist on nerfing heavy armor.

Guess things have changed on PC NA since that data was collected then. HA is the way to go and it would seem that most folks got the memo. Perhaps it is different per platform or campaign.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

You would think people are intelligent enough to notice that the whole armor debate is purely related to PvP. Seems as if that's not the case.

You would think some people would use common sense about the ridiculousness of claiming one armor os better than the other but I guess that's not the case.

But heavy currently wins in regards to most aspects in PvP.
It's superior to medium and light on 6/8 specs for duels, solo and smallscale (no zergsurf-"solo smallscale" bs). So it is kinda better than MA/LA.

Nice opinion you got there but it doesn't match the data that the devs put out.

More people wear Medium/Light then heavy armor
That means that you're fighting a small number of good players.

At least we can agree on the troll sentiment that Heavy deals more dmg than medium even though top dps players run medium and it has crit passives that the troll @Isellskooma said.

Also even though you may lose against them you have all the tools to counter them. Zos gave you sharpened trait, maces passives, a 1 piece armor pen monster set, a 5 piece armor pen set, and CP.

If you fail to utilize all that armor pen, fail to utilize your reduced dodge roll cost, fail to LOS fail run shuffle, fail to time your burst and lose against the minority heavy armor users I suggest you reevaluate your build.

@Anti_Virus

Could post a clip of you pvp'ing, that's what people normally do. You said you could but i still haven't seen it.

@Anti_Virus Lambert's data was just a very basic graph.

He didn't mention the variables such as

It's it only wearing 5x armor pieces that makes this count? Or just at least 1 of an armor piece? E.g. 5/1/1 would make this data pointless.

Who did he take the data from? Noobs who aren't sure how to pvp? Lvl's 10's fo run around with 3/2/2 armor setup because they don't know better.

Did they include the pve people that go into pvp to do daily's or pve story lines in IC? Because they would run medium/light for pve dps?

If you pvp for more than an hour you can clearly see there is a lot more people wearing heavy than anything else.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@leepalmer95

So do you have data that can back that claim or are you pulling that our of thin air? The data was taken from 501+ CP players don't discredit data unless you have some of your own. Its advantageous to run 5-1-1 for the light armor passives running full 7/7 heavy will make all your skills super expensive. LA users run 5-1-1 set ups and MA users run 5-1-1for undauntedes mettle.

Also you don't need a video from me just look up medium armor stam sorcs in pvp and you'll see them doing just fine, if you can't you need to do something with your build.

Trolls like yourself insist on claiming heavy is OP dispite the numerous evidence that says other wise. If heavy armor is so OP you would see DPS, And Healers running it, and most people in PVP running it (Zos data proves its the least worn). If you have data to prove other wise please show me so I correct yourself.

Where is your data to suggest my claim isn't wrong? Because all lambert did a post a graph, he never said that variables was in the graph. A graph on every pvp player in pvp just wouldn't be accurate thats just bad misrepresentation of numbers.

I know why people run 5/1/1? my question was would these people count to all 3 armor types are they are wearing 1 of each? We don't know because lambert didn't say.

I do need a video from you. I asked show me and you responded you can? Posting numbers on a thread doesn't prove anything i can post big numbers and claim my build is amazing. You said you do it, show me evidence you can or i'll take it your just posting for the sake of posting and you can't.

I've seen plenty of medium stam sorc's in pvp and they all needed to run some regen and give up damage for doing it.

Trolls like you that insist something isn't OP when we are literally in a heavy meta and if you play pvp for an hour you'd know that because the majority of people are in heavy. Dps do run it, healers do run heavy and most people in pvp do run it ffs.

Do you play in black water blade or something? Because all the main campaigns seem to be filled with heavy.

You don't get your a minority either, keep calling people trolls when the majority of people agree heavy is OP. Ever though't your the troll? In fact if medium is so good and heavy is fine, wouldn't people getting heavy reduced benefit you?