Heavy armor meta?
BossXV
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So I hear a loud t of rage about heavy armor in PvP, for a DK stam build is heavy armor now better than medium?
And will it stay that way
And will it stay that way
0
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Kadoozy✭✭✭✭Heavy has been better than medium for the last two patches. And nothing is changing currently in the next patch0 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the forums will tell you heavy armor is the best thing since sliced bread yes.
your experience may vary.ESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.3 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, no matter what some trolls tell you here. The ability and dodge roll cost reduction alone on medium armor are already superior than Constitution, which requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it triggers one time in order to achieve its maximum power, and unlike some people like to think, this doesn't happen very frequently.Edited by tplink3r1 on January 12, 2017 10:17PMVR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer6 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, not matter what some trolls tell you here.
Maybe you should have a look at the heavy armor passives. Particularly the constitution (for sustain) and wrath (for damage) passives. Then you throw on some Black Rose to buff the constitution passive by 40% making it so you can easily sustain with 700 regen.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Heavy+Armor+Skills
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Rose+Set
As far as on a stam DK, it's crazy good. The positives mentioned above plus extra healing from heavy armor passives to go with the major mending and and burning heart passives will have you healing to full in no time. I say this confidently without even having a stam DK because I've been on the other end of it trying to burst them down. If they're good, it's tough, really tough.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA4 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Wrath only gives you a maximum of 200 damage, and its almost never fully active.Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, not matter what some trolls tell you here.
Maybe you should have a look at the heavy armor passives. Particularly the constitution (for sustain) and wrath (for damage) passives. Then you throw on some Black Rose to buff the constitution passive by 40% making it so you can easily sustain with 700 regen.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Heavy+Armor+Skills
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Rose+Set
As far as on a stam DK, it's crazy good. The positives mentioned above plus extra healing from heavy armor passives to go with the major mending and and burning heart passives will have you healing to full in no time. I say this confidently without even having a stam DK because I've been on the other end of it trying to burst them down. If they're good, it's tough, really tough.
Constitution gives you 650 regen(in theory), but requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it first activates in order to achieve it.
Stamina abilities have an average cost of 3k without any cost reductions, and the passive reduce their costs by 21%, making them 600 points cheaper every use, not to mention the stamina regen and the dodge roll cost reduction.
Both passive won't achieve their maximum efficiency unless you are being focused by multiple players and taking the damage instead of running around objects or dodge rolling.Edited by tplink3r1 on January 12, 2017 9:52PMVR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer3 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
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Wrath only gives you a maximum of 200 damage, and its almost never fully active.Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, not matter what some trolls tell you here.
Maybe you should have a look at the heavy armor passives. Particularly the constitution (for sustain) and wrath (for damage) passives. Then you throw on some Black Rose to buff the constitution passive by 40% making it so you can easily sustain with 700 regen.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Heavy+Armor+Skills
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Rose+Set
As far as on a stam DK, it's crazy good. The positives mentioned above plus extra healing from heavy armor passives to go with the major mending and and burning heart passives will have you healing to full in no time. I say this confidently without even having a stam DK because I've been on the other end of it trying to burst them down. If they're good, it's tough, really tough.
Constitution gives you 650 regen(in theory), but requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it first activates in order to achieve it.
Stamina abilities have an average cost of 3k without any cost reductions, and the passive reduce their costs by 21%, making them 600 points cheaper every use.
Both passive won't achieve their maximum efficiency unless you are being focused by multiple players and taking the damage instead of running around objects or dodge rolling.
With Black Rose your theoretical regen goes up to over 900. I suppose it does depend on your play style. Dodge rolling shouldn't be a big part of what you're doing to survive as heavy armor user because of the mitigation and extra healing it provides. Also if you're zerging you won't be getting focused much and have pocket healers, making heavy less effective. While it's true you do lose some damage, it's mostly through crit and with so many running impen I find it's very much worth it for the survivability it provides for small group/solo play.
When I build a character for PvP I like to have a set for sustain and one for damage, and I can't really think of a better set for sustain on a stamina character than Black Rose.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
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Which is still less than 600 less stamina cost by cast and 28% stamina regen, not to mention you will have to sacrifice 2 set bonuses that could be used to improve your damage or regen in order to wear Black Rose.
Wrath only gives you a maximum of 200 damage, and its almost never fully active.Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, not matter what some trolls tell you here.
Maybe you should have a look at the heavy armor passives. Particularly the constitution (for sustain) and wrath (for damage) passives. Then you throw on some Black Rose to buff the constitution passive by 40% making it so you can easily sustain with 700 regen.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Heavy+Armor+Skills
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Rose+Set
As far as on a stam DK, it's crazy good. The positives mentioned above plus extra healing from heavy armor passives to go with the major mending and and burning heart passives will have you healing to full in no time. I say this confidently without even having a stam DK because I've been on the other end of it trying to burst them down. If they're good, it's tough, really tough.
Constitution gives you 650 regen(in theory), but requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it first activates in order to achieve it.
Stamina abilities have an average cost of 3k without any cost reductions, and the passive reduce their costs by 21%, making them 600 points cheaper every use.
Both passive won't achieve their maximum efficiency unless you are being focused by multiple players and taking the damage instead of running around objects or dodge rolling.
With Black Rose your theoretical regen goes up to over 900. I suppose it does depend on your play style. Dodge rolling shouldn't be a big part of what you're doing to survive as heavy armor user because of the mitigation and extra healing it provides. Also if you're zerging you won't be getting focused much and have pocket healers, making heavy less effective. While it's true you do lose some damage, it's mostly through crit and with so many running impen I find it's very much worth it for the survivability it provides for small group/solo play.
When I build a character for PvP I like to have a set for sustain and one for damage, and I can't really think of a better set for sustain on a stamina character than Black Rose.
HA doesn't provide more damage or stamina sustain than medium, just stop with this lunacy.Edited by tplink3r1 on January 12, 2017 10:11PMVR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer4 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Wrath only gives you a maximum of 200 damage, and its almost never fully active.Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, not matter what some trolls tell you here.
Maybe you should have a look at the heavy armor passives. Particularly the constitution (for sustain) and wrath (for damage) passives. Then you throw on some Black Rose to buff the constitution passive by 40% making it so you can easily sustain with 700 regen.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Heavy+Armor+Skills
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Rose+Set
As far as on a stam DK, it's crazy good. The positives mentioned above plus extra healing from heavy armor passives to go with the major mending and and burning heart passives will have you healing to full in no time. I say this confidently without even having a stam DK because I've been on the other end of it trying to burst them down. If they're good, it's tough, really tough.
Constitution gives you 650 regen(in theory), but requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it first activates in order to achieve it.
Stamina abilities have an average cost of 3k without any cost reductions, and the passive reduce their costs by 21%, making them 600 points cheaper every use.
Both passive won't achieve their maximum efficiency unless you are being focused by multiple players and taking the damage instead of running around objects or dodge rolling.
With Black Rose your theoretical regen goes up to over 900. I suppose it does depend on your play style.
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Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭For PvP on a stam dk, heavy armor is so much better than medium. Use black rose, fit or even 7th legion. Go two medium on undaunted set for a bit more sustain.
Medium does offer better sustain and damage, but the extra survivability in heavy far outweighs that.
Black rose and bloodspawn is ridiculously good. I use agility jewellery, maesltrom maul and random defending bow (as I use no bow abilities, just have it for expedition).Edited by Brrrofski on January 12, 2017 10:25PM1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, no matter what some trolls tell you here. The ability and dodge roll cost reduction alone on medium armor are already superior than Constitution, which requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it triggers one time in order to achieve its maximum power, and unlike some people like to think, this doesn't happen very frequently.
This Medium>Heavy cost reduction alone makes it Superior, plus sneak and dodge roll cost reduction.
Ppl that say heavy is OP are trolls or they need to L2P.Power Wealth And Influence.3 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
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I also don't get it...Anti_Virus wrote: »Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, no matter what some trolls tell you here. The ability and dodge roll cost reduction alone on medium armor are already superior than Constitution, which requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it triggers one time in order to achieve its maximum power, and unlike some people like to think, this doesn't happen very frequently.
This Medium>Heavy cost reduction alone makes it Superior, plus sneak and dodge roll cost reduction.
Ppl that say heavy is OP are trolls or they need to L2P.
I can see why people will say that HA armor is better because it also offers more survivability, but to say that it is better for sustain and damage is just objectively false.VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer3 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭For PvP on a stam dk, heavy armor is so much better than medium. Use black rose, fit or even 7th legion. Go two medium on undaunted set for a bit more sustain.
Medium does offer better sustain and damage, but the extra survivability in heavy far outweighs that.
Black rose and bloodspawn is ridiculously good. I use agility jewellery, maesltrom maul and random defending bow (as I use no bow abilities, just have it for expedition).
I get far more survivability from Medium armor just dodge rolling\LOS then I do running around in plate with expensive a$$ skills and having all my armor ignored.Power Wealth And Influence.1 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
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Which is still less than 600 less stamina cost by cast and 28% stamina regen, not to mention you will have to sacrifice 2 set bonuses that could be used to improve your damage or regen in order to wear Black Rose.
Wrath only gives you a maximum of 200 damage, and its almost never fully active.Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, not matter what some trolls tell you here.
Maybe you should have a look at the heavy armor passives. Particularly the constitution (for sustain) and wrath (for damage) passives. Then you throw on some Black Rose to buff the constitution passive by 40% making it so you can easily sustain with 700 regen.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Heavy+Armor+Skills
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Rose+Set
As far as on a stam DK, it's crazy good. The positives mentioned above plus extra healing from heavy armor passives to go with the major mending and and burning heart passives will have you healing to full in no time. I say this confidently without even having a stam DK because I've been on the other end of it trying to burst them down. If they're good, it's tough, really tough.
Constitution gives you 650 regen(in theory), but requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it first activates in order to achieve it.
Stamina abilities have an average cost of 3k without any cost reductions, and the passive reduce their costs by 21%, making them 600 points cheaper every use.
Both passive won't achieve their maximum efficiency unless you are being focused by multiple players and taking the damage instead of running around objects or dodge rolling.
With Black Rose your theoretical regen goes up to over 900. I suppose it does depend on your play style. Dodge rolling shouldn't be a big part of what you're doing to survive as heavy armor user because of the mitigation and extra healing it provides. Also if you're zerging you won't be getting focused much and have pocket healers, making heavy less effective. While it's true you do lose some damage, it's mostly through crit and with so many running impen I find it's very much worth it for the survivability it provides for small group/solo play.
When I build a character for PvP I like to have a set for sustain and one for damage, and I can't really think of a better set for sustain on a stamina character than Black Rose.
HA doesn't provide more damage or stamina sustain than medium, just stop with this lunacy.
You can manage just fine with 600 stamina regen using heavy armor there is no way to do that with medium in pvp. Heavy armor also allows you to run food instead of drink to raise your damage even more so a well built heavy armor build will have just as much damage as a medium armor build simply because if you run medium you have to sacrifice so much damage to be able to sustain. Heavy armor is filling up both your resource pools allowing stamina increased survivability by allowing them to use their magicka abilities for more utility. By the numbers you are right medium has more regen and damage built in so in PvE it's the obvious choice because you are building a min max damage build, but in PvP where you need to build for resistance and regen heavy armor is by far the better option because you don't need to build for regen when you use heavy armor you can just stack max stats. The only build I can see medium or light armor still being bis for in PvP is gankblade and magsorc, every other build should be in heavy armor if they want to maximize performance1 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
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You just repeated everything you previously said and still didn't rebut my arguments of how HA doesn't provide more sustain.thankyourat wrote: »
Which is still less than 600 less stamina cost by cast and 28% stamina regen, not to mention you will have to sacrifice 2 set bonuses that could be used to improve your damage or regen in order to wear Black Rose.
Wrath only gives you a maximum of 200 damage, and its almost never fully active.Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, not matter what some trolls tell you here.
Maybe you should have a look at the heavy armor passives. Particularly the constitution (for sustain) and wrath (for damage) passives. Then you throw on some Black Rose to buff the constitution passive by 40% making it so you can easily sustain with 700 regen.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Heavy+Armor+Skills
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Rose+Set
As far as on a stam DK, it's crazy good. The positives mentioned above plus extra healing from heavy armor passives to go with the major mending and and burning heart passives will have you healing to full in no time. I say this confidently without even having a stam DK because I've been on the other end of it trying to burst them down. If they're good, it's tough, really tough.
Constitution gives you 650 regen(in theory), but requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it first activates in order to achieve it.
Stamina abilities have an average cost of 3k without any cost reductions, and the passive reduce their costs by 21%, making them 600 points cheaper every use.
Both passive won't achieve their maximum efficiency unless you are being focused by multiple players and taking the damage instead of running around objects or dodge rolling.
With Black Rose your theoretical regen goes up to over 900. I suppose it does depend on your play style. Dodge rolling shouldn't be a big part of what you're doing to survive as heavy armor user because of the mitigation and extra healing it provides. Also if you're zerging you won't be getting focused much and have pocket healers, making heavy less effective. While it's true you do lose some damage, it's mostly through crit and with so many running impen I find it's very much worth it for the survivability it provides for small group/solo play.
When I build a character for PvP I like to have a set for sustain and one for damage, and I can't really think of a better set for sustain on a stamina character than Black Rose.
HA doesn't provide more damage or stamina sustain than medium, just stop with this lunacy.
You can manage just fine with 600 stamina regen using heavy armor there is no way to do that with medium in pvp. Heavy armor also allows you to run food instead of drink to raise your damage even more so a well built heavy armor build will have just as much damage as a medium armor build simply because if you run medium you have to sacrifice so much damage to be able to sustain. Heavy armor is filling up both your resource pools allowing stamina increased survivability by allowing them to use their magicka abilities for more utility. By the numbers you are right medium has more regen and damage built in so in PvE it's the obvious choice because you are building a min max damage build, but in PvP where you need to build for resistance and regen heavy armor is by far the better option because you don't need to build for regen when you use heavy armor you can just stack max stats. The only build I can see medium or light armor still being bis for in PvP is gankblade and magsorc, every other build should be in heavy armor if they want to maximize performance
Unless you show me how 900 regen and 200 weapon damage is better for damage and sustain than 21% reduction, 28% regen, 12% weapon damage and 10% crit, then you are just wrong.
Edited by tplink3r1 on January 12, 2017 11:36PMVR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer3 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Heavy armor is the best armor currently. It's superior compared to both medium and light. By quite a lot. There is a reason why we have this stupid tank meta for months now.Susano'o
Zerg Squad1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I surely don't wear heavy armor for sustain, I wear it to help mitigate being insta ganked by op medium wearing stam blades and stam sorcs.
Now it takes them at least 2 hits. lol2 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »
Which is still less than 600 less stamina cost by cast and 28% stamina regen, not to mention you will have to sacrifice 2 set bonuses that could be used to improve your damage or regen in order to wear Black Rose.
Wrath only gives you a maximum of 200 damage, and its almost never fully active.Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, not matter what some trolls tell you here.
Maybe you should have a look at the heavy armor passives. Particularly the constitution (for sustain) and wrath (for damage) passives. Then you throw on some Black Rose to buff the constitution passive by 40% making it so you can easily sustain with 700 regen.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Heavy+Armor+Skills
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Rose+Set
As far as on a stam DK, it's crazy good. The positives mentioned above plus extra healing from heavy armor passives to go with the major mending and and burning heart passives will have you healing to full in no time. I say this confidently without even having a stam DK because I've been on the other end of it trying to burst them down. If they're good, it's tough, really tough.
Constitution gives you 650 regen(in theory), but requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it first activates in order to achieve it.
Stamina abilities have an average cost of 3k without any cost reductions, and the passive reduce their costs by 21%, making them 600 points cheaper every use.
Both passive won't achieve their maximum efficiency unless you are being focused by multiple players and taking the damage instead of running around objects or dodge rolling.
With Black Rose your theoretical regen goes up to over 900. I suppose it does depend on your play style. Dodge rolling shouldn't be a big part of what you're doing to survive as heavy armor user because of the mitigation and extra healing it provides. Also if you're zerging you won't be getting focused much and have pocket healers, making heavy less effective. While it's true you do lose some damage, it's mostly through crit and with so many running impen I find it's very much worth it for the survivability it provides for small group/solo play.
When I build a character for PvP I like to have a set for sustain and one for damage, and I can't really think of a better set for sustain on a stamina character than Black Rose.
HA doesn't provide more damage or stamina sustain than medium, just stop with this lunacy.
You can manage just fine with 600 stamina regen using heavy armor there is no way to do that with medium in pvp. Heavy armor also allows you to run food instead of drink to raise your damage even more so a well built heavy armor build will have just as much damage as a medium armor build simply because if you run medium you have to sacrifice so much damage to be able to sustain. Heavy armor is filling up both your resource pools allowing stamina increased survivability by allowing them to use their magicka abilities for more utility. By the numbers you are right medium has more regen and damage built in so in PvE it's the obvious choice because you are building a min max damage build, but in PvP where you need to build for resistance and regen heavy armor is by far the better option because you don't need to build for regen when you use heavy armor you can just stack max stats. The only build I can see medium or light armor still being bis for in PvP is gankblade and magsorc, every other build should be in heavy armor if they want to maximize performance
In my experience from console PvP the only classes that wears heavy are DKs and Templars
Sorcs and NBs have plenty of dmg mitgation(shield, Cloak) and can sustain just fine
Medium armor far out sustains heavy with all the passive cost reduction, I think heavy sustain is mistaken for class sustain mechanics I can do the same thing in medium on my stamina DK with helping hands and battle roar.Edited by Anti_Virus on January 13, 2017 1:02PMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
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You just repeated everything you previously said and still didn't rebut my arguments of how HA doesn't provide more sustain.thankyourat wrote: »
Which is still less than 600 less stamina cost by cast and 28% stamina regen, not to mention you will have to sacrifice 2 set bonuses that could be used to improve your damage or regen in order to wear Black Rose.
Wrath only gives you a maximum of 200 damage, and its almost never fully active.Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, not matter what some trolls tell you here.
Maybe you should have a look at the heavy armor passives. Particularly the constitution (for sustain) and wrath (for damage) passives. Then you throw on some Black Rose to buff the constitution passive by 40% making it so you can easily sustain with 700 regen.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Heavy+Armor+Skills
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Rose+Set
As far as on a stam DK, it's crazy good. The positives mentioned above plus extra healing from heavy armor passives to go with the major mending and and burning heart passives will have you healing to full in no time. I say this confidently without even having a stam DK because I've been on the other end of it trying to burst them down. If they're good, it's tough, really tough.
Constitution gives you 650 regen(in theory), but requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it first activates in order to achieve it.
Stamina abilities have an average cost of 3k without any cost reductions, and the passive reduce their costs by 21%, making them 600 points cheaper every use.
Both passive won't achieve their maximum efficiency unless you are being focused by multiple players and taking the damage instead of running around objects or dodge rolling.
With Black Rose your theoretical regen goes up to over 900. I suppose it does depend on your play style. Dodge rolling shouldn't be a big part of what you're doing to survive as heavy armor user because of the mitigation and extra healing it provides. Also if you're zerging you won't be getting focused much and have pocket healers, making heavy less effective. While it's true you do lose some damage, it's mostly through crit and with so many running impen I find it's very much worth it for the survivability it provides for small group/solo play.
When I build a character for PvP I like to have a set for sustain and one for damage, and I can't really think of a better set for sustain on a stamina character than Black Rose.
HA doesn't provide more damage or stamina sustain than medium, just stop with this lunacy.
You can manage just fine with 600 stamina regen using heavy armor there is no way to do that with medium in pvp. Heavy armor also allows you to run food instead of drink to raise your damage even more so a well built heavy armor build will have just as much damage as a medium armor build simply because if you run medium you have to sacrifice so much damage to be able to sustain. Heavy armor is filling up both your resource pools allowing stamina increased survivability by allowing them to use their magicka abilities for more utility. By the numbers you are right medium has more regen and damage built in so in PvE it's the obvious choice because you are building a min max damage build, but in PvP where you need to build for resistance and regen heavy armor is by far the better option because you don't need to build for regen when you use heavy armor you can just stack max stats. The only build I can see medium or light armor still being bis for in PvP is gankblade and magsorc, every other build should be in heavy armor if they want to maximize performance
Unless you show me how 900 regen and 200 weapon damage is better for damage and sustain than 21% reduction, 28% regen and 12% weapon damage, then you are just wrong.
That's because you are partly right medium armor has better damage and better sustain on paper. But looking at the overall package of heavy armor it's superior, you get the 200 weapon damage from passives plus about 5000 more max stam because you don't have to run drinks which equals about another 500 weapon damage. Heavy armor allows you to stack all damage you don't need to add regen anywhere on a heavy armor build. The constitution passive is filling up both your resource pools that's op because most stam classes use magicka to get stamina back as long as you have magicka you can continue to fight. The dodge roll cost reduction isn't a big deal either because you don't need to dodge roll as much because you are in heavy so you can take a hit and heal through it. So while yes you can maximize your damage alot more in medium armor that wouldn't be a practical build to use because you won't be able to sustain that type of build while at the same time being squishy because you are in medium. This is what make heavy armor the best armor at the moment for PvP. you can stack all damage and since you always have magicka you'll always have stamina to fight with, and if you are a redguard even better. It seems you are looking at this from a min/max PvE perspective2 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only thing that is better on medium armor is your ability to run away. I laugh my ass of when I see someone in medium light armor who hasn't got much skill. they die instantly maybe they dodge 3-4 skills but after that they're gone. against a heavy armor player it is an completely other story. They survive the cancer burst sets and are at 50% health afterwards and then they have the wrath passive with about +140 wpdmg (heavy double attack, viper, veli, poison, surprise attack, incap)
Don't get me wrong I recognise that medium armor has its purpose ( I play it solely) but heavy armor is just so much better for almost anything in PvP except for Bombzergs or gankers.0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Heavy armor is better then medium and light armor, hands down. They overbuffed it a couple patches ago and made it the full package with no real downsides.
Medium and light armor can still be good, they just wont compare well vs heavy armor.
PC EU
PvP only1 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
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You don't have to run drinks on Medium in order to have more sustain than in HA.thankyourat wrote: »
You just repeated everything you previously said and still didn't rebut my arguments of how HA doesn't provide more sustain.thankyourat wrote: »
Which is still less than 600 less stamina cost by cast and 28% stamina regen, not to mention you will have to sacrifice 2 set bonuses that could be used to improve your damage or regen in order to wear Black Rose.
Wrath only gives you a maximum of 200 damage, and its almost never fully active.Medium armor objectively has more stamina sustain and damage than Heavy, not matter what some trolls tell you here.
Maybe you should have a look at the heavy armor passives. Particularly the constitution (for sustain) and wrath (for damage) passives. Then you throw on some Black Rose to buff the constitution passive by 40% making it so you can easily sustain with 700 regen.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Heavy+Armor+Skills
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Black+Rose+Set
As far as on a stam DK, it's crazy good. The positives mentioned above plus extra healing from heavy armor passives to go with the major mending and and burning heart passives will have you healing to full in no time. I say this confidently without even having a stam DK because I've been on the other end of it trying to burst them down. If they're good, it's tough, really tough.
Constitution gives you 650 regen(in theory), but requires you to be hit exactly 4 seconds after it first activates in order to achieve it.
Stamina abilities have an average cost of 3k without any cost reductions, and the passive reduce their costs by 21%, making them 600 points cheaper every use.
Both passive won't achieve their maximum efficiency unless you are being focused by multiple players and taking the damage instead of running around objects or dodge rolling.
With Black Rose your theoretical regen goes up to over 900. I suppose it does depend on your play style. Dodge rolling shouldn't be a big part of what you're doing to survive as heavy armor user because of the mitigation and extra healing it provides. Also if you're zerging you won't be getting focused much and have pocket healers, making heavy less effective. While it's true you do lose some damage, it's mostly through crit and with so many running impen I find it's very much worth it for the survivability it provides for small group/solo play.
When I build a character for PvP I like to have a set for sustain and one for damage, and I can't really think of a better set for sustain on a stamina character than Black Rose.
HA doesn't provide more damage or stamina sustain than medium, just stop with this lunacy.
You can manage just fine with 600 stamina regen using heavy armor there is no way to do that with medium in pvp. Heavy armor also allows you to run food instead of drink to raise your damage even more so a well built heavy armor build will have just as much damage as a medium armor build simply because if you run medium you have to sacrifice so much damage to be able to sustain. Heavy armor is filling up both your resource pools allowing stamina increased survivability by allowing them to use their magicka abilities for more utility. By the numbers you are right medium has more regen and damage built in so in PvE it's the obvious choice because you are building a min max damage build, but in PvP where you need to build for resistance and regen heavy armor is by far the better option because you don't need to build for regen when you use heavy armor you can just stack max stats. The only build I can see medium or light armor still being bis for in PvP is gankblade and magsorc, every other build should be in heavy armor if they want to maximize performance
Unless you show me how 900 regen and 200 weapon damage is better for damage and sustain than 21% reduction, 28% regen and 12% weapon damage, then you are just wrong.
That's because you are partly right medium armor has better damage and better sustain on paper. But looking at the overall package of heavy armor it's superior, you get the 200 weapon damage from passives plus about 5000 more max stam because you don't have to run drinks which equals about another 500 weapon damage. Heavy armor allows you to stack all damage you don't need to add regen anywhere on a heavy armor build. The constitution passive is filling up both your resource pools that's op because most stam classes use magicka to get stamina back as long as you have magicka you can continue to fight. The dodge roll cost reduction isn't a big deal either because you don't need to dodge roll as much because you are in heavy so you can take a hit and heal through it. So while yes you can maximize your damage alot more in medium armor that wouldn't be a practical build to use because you won't be able to sustain that type of build while at the same time being squishy because you are in medium. This is what make heavy armor the best armor at the moment for PvP. you can stack all damage and since you always have magicka you'll always have stamina to fight with, and if you are a redguard even better. It seems you are looking at this from a min/max PvE perspectiveVR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer0 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »For PvP on a stam dk, heavy armor is so much better than medium. Use black rose, fit or even 7th legion. Go two medium on undaunted set for a bit more sustain.
Medium does offer better sustain and damage, but the extra survivability in heavy far outweighs that.
Black rose and bloodspawn is ridiculously good. I use agility jewellery, maesltrom maul and random defending bow (as I use no bow abilities, just have it for expedition).
I get far more survivability from Medium armor just dodge rolling\LOS then I do running around in plate with expensive a$$ skills and having all my armor ignored.
It's not a L2P thing, sure I can strap on procs in medium and maybe just maybe I'll out play the same build in heavy. I however do not use procs and the imbalance between heavy and medium is heavily apparent.0 -
Calboy✭✭✭✭✭The only reason heavy is strong is because it allows the actual skilled players to not get insta gibbed from a gank. They then reset and return the favour then proceed to open up their steel hatch, pull out their sweaty nut sack and dip onto the gankers corpse. This heavy is op meta on the forums is created by these very unskilled players who rely on the element of surprise to hide their lack of skill, and they are upset.
Fortunately Zos once posted saying there are still more medium and light wearers in cyrodiil and wont listen to these terrible trolls.Edited by Calboy on January 13, 2017 1:51AM3 -
Isellskooma✭✭✭✭The only reason heavy is strong is because it allows the actual skilled players to not get insta gibbed from a gank. They then reset and return the favour then proceed to open up their steel hatch, pull out their sweaty nut sack and dip onto the gankers corpse. This heavy is op meta on the forums is created by these very unskilled players who rely on the element of surprise to hide their lack of skill, and they are upset.
Fortunately Zos once posted saying there are still more medium and light wearers in cyrodiil and wont listen to these terrible trolls.
That should be the purpose of heavy, be tanky. But right now you have everything in heavy, you got damage, stupid sustain. The health and resistance is perfect to me since tanks need that. But why on earth do I hit harder with heavy + and sustain with 570 regen? It's so easy mode.2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
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For heavy either 5/1/1 or 5/2
Personally i'd go 5/1/1.
Also to all the people saying heavy isn't op please go make me a medium build that runs around with 600 regen and has perfect sustain. Because i can do that on a 5x heavy full damage set up.
Medium will give up armor pieces/ glyph's/ enchants for more hp and at least 2k~ recovery. Heavy puts on 5 heavy has high enough hp just off 5x heavy and then can spec 100% into damage.
Wraith gives similar damage to the medium passive of 12%, that medium passives gives 12% of your BASE weapon damage. Not buffed with major/minor brutality or passives. Sure you lose like 50-100 weapon damage at most. Thats it.
Also wraith will be fully up easily 90% of a fight if you actually pvp and don't run around in a 40 man group chasing down solo players. It proc's off ANY damage, any dot, any aoe etc... all refresh the timer.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
MaxwellC✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Danksta
Actually heavy armor meta benefits stam sorc the most, even with the added healing we receive it doesn't benefit us as the costs of major mending is 4k magicka and hardend armor is around 3.5k magicka lol.. so if you want a consistent up time to off set damage well you wouldn't get to fossilize (which is also 3.5k magicka). Fossilize is key for us to line up our attacks since we don't have any good PvP skills that deal damage (class wise).
Stam Sorc gets hurricane (a ability stolen from the Dragon Knight class which used to be a flame AoE called Flames of Oblivion) which can consistently apply pressure, mix that up with caltrops and it's done. They get dark deal which can heal them and give them back more stam than we would get (We would need nearly about 55k max stam to get more stam than they would even though we're the class of sustain lmao..)不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell1 -
BossXV✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
For heavy either 5/1/1 or 5/2
Personally i'd go 5/1/1.
Also to all the people saying heavy isn't op please go make me a medium build that runs around with 600 regen and has perfect sustain. Because i can do that on a 5x heavy full damage set up.
Medium will give up armor pieces/ glyph's/ enchants for more hp and at least 2k~ recovery. Heavy puts on 5 heavy has high enough hp just off 5x heavy and then can spec 100% into damage.
Wraith gives similar damage to the medium passive of 12%, that medium passives gives 12% of your BASE weapon damage. Not buffed with major/minor brutality or passives. Sure you lose like 50-100 weapon damage at most. Thats it.
Also wraith will be fully up easily 90% of a fight if you actually pvp and don't run around in a 40 man group chasing down solo players. It proc's off ANY damage, any dot, any aoe etc... all refresh the timer.
Thanks, and you mean PvP and pve0