so... getting gear while leveling from 1-50 is POINTLESS...

Mikkiz1990b16_ESO · January 2017

i now see that the gear you get from leveling is just as good as level 130 gear. which makes vomit abit... i mean, whats the whole point of leveling if you dont get any gear at all , i got a ring for lvl 45 which has the SAME stats as my lvl 130 cp's ring. so what is the whole reason to have gear in lower level? when the gear doesnt become better as you level from 50 to cp 160.

Pixel_Zealot · January 2017

'Cause they want to raise the floor and drop the roof.

So lvl 1 and CP160 has closer dps. This includes nerfing ability stats, gear stats, CP stats etc etc.

Mikkiz1990b16_ESO · January 2017

Pixel_Zealot wrote: »

'Cause they want to raise the floor and drop the roof.

So lvl 1 and CP160 has closer dps. This includes nerfing ability stats, gear stats, CP stats etc etc.

which makes leveling all about 160 and not about anything else making the entire game up to that point a grind instead of a fun aspect ,

50% of the fun in leveling is the loot you get.

kongkim · January 2017

If you are level then yah it have the same stats. But if you are level 160 and use a level 10 item you gimp yourself.

LordGavus · January 2017

The stats scale to the character level. Put the L45 ring on your cp130 and that stats will scale down and be much worse.

Rev Rielle · January 2017

Mikkiz1990b16_ESO wrote: »

Pixel_Zealot wrote: »

'Cause they want to raise the floor and drop the roof.

So lvl 1 and CP160 has closer dps. This includes nerfing ability stats, gear stats, CP stats etc etc.

which makes leveling all about 160 and not about anything else making the entire game up to that point a grind instead of a fun aspect ,

50% of the fun in leveling is the loot you get.

Just focus on the other 50% then; the content etc.

It's not a perfect system at the moment: The gear discrepancy is a bit of a relic from the leveled nature of the zones that were in the game before One Tamriel was released. Hopefully over time they will do something to lesson this.

But I will say that One Tamriel is so much better than the linear leveled zone system that preceded it. So I guess what I'm trying to say is... nothing's perfect? And just try and enjoy it for what it is.

srfrogg23 · January 2017

Mikkiz1990b16_ESO wrote: »

i now see that the gear you get from leveling is just as good as level 130 gear. which makes vomit abit... i mean, whats the whole point of leveling if you dont get any gear at all , i got a ring for lvl 45 which has the SAME stats as my lvl 130 cp's ring. so what is the whole reason to have gear in lower level? when the gear doesnt become better as you level from 50 to cp 160.

It's not pointless. When you are lower in level, the gear shows better stats. As your level goes up, the gear scales down the further your level goes passed it. I've noticed that while leveling my alt.

At least I think that's how it works, or I've finally gone bonkers.

So, when you get to max level and compare low level gear to high level gear, the low level gear will have comparatively lower stats. High level gear will look normal to you.

LordGavus · January 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Mikkiz1990b16_ESO wrote: »

i now see that the gear you get from leveling is just as good as level 130 gear. which makes vomit abit... i mean, whats the whole point of leveling if you dont get any gear at all , i got a ring for lvl 45 which has the SAME stats as my lvl 130 cp's ring. so what is the whole reason to have gear in lower level? when the gear doesnt become better as you level from 50 to cp 160.

It's not pointless. When you are lower in level, the gear shows better stats. As your level goes up, the gear scales down the further your level goes passed it. I've noticed that while leveling my alt.

At least I think that's how it works, or I've finally gone bonkers.

Well, you might be bonkers. But that is pretty much how it works.

srfrogg23 · January 2017

LordGavus wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Mikkiz1990b16_ESO wrote: »

i now see that the gear you get from leveling is just as good as level 130 gear. which makes vomit abit... i mean, whats the whole point of leveling if you dont get any gear at all , i got a ring for lvl 45 which has the SAME stats as my lvl 130 cp's ring. so what is the whole reason to have gear in lower level? when the gear doesnt become better as you level from 50 to cp 160.

It's not pointless. When you are lower in level, the gear shows better stats. As your level goes up, the gear scales down the further your level goes passed it. I've noticed that while leveling my alt.

At least I think that's how it works, or I've finally gone bonkers.

Well, you might be bonkers. But that is pretty much how it works.

Whew, I was afraid I was still one of the "normies".

Danikat · January 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Mikkiz1990b16_ESO wrote: »

i now see that the gear you get from leveling is just as good as level 130 gear. which makes vomit abit... i mean, whats the whole point of leveling if you dont get any gear at all , i got a ring for lvl 45 which has the SAME stats as my lvl 130 cp's ring. so what is the whole reason to have gear in lower level? when the gear doesnt become better as you level from 50 to cp 160.

It's not pointless. When you are lower in level, the gear shows better stats. As your level goes up, the gear scales down the further your level goes passed it. I've noticed that while leveling my alt.

At least I think that's how it works, or I've finally gone bonkers.

So, when you get to max level and compare low level gear to high level gear, the low level gear will have comparatively lower stats. High level gear will look normal to you.

That is how it works.

In a way it actually means it's more important to keep your gear up to date now. Before you could simply out-level most content, leave it long enough and you could do it naked. Now that's not an option because you and all the enemies are always scaled to level 50/160CP, so if you're not wearing equipment or wearing stuff well below your level it's going to have a big impact on your stats.

If you don't believe me try this: Make a new character and take them straight to one of the DLC zones, or any high-end map but if you own them the DLC maps are quicker to reach, and see how you do against enemies there. I tried that shortly before One Tamriel was announced - I was subbed temporarily and wanted to try out the DLC. I didn't want to 'mess up' an existing character so I made a new one, thinking it didn't matter and let me tell you it does. Getting a full set of actual armour at my level made a HUGE difference over doing it in my soul-shriven rags. I could even survive fighting 2 enemies at once!

rotaugen454 · January 2017

I have a character that I am leveling to 50. I had them use level 6 all training gear until level 34, now they will use level 34 training gear until 50. I see a massive difference in how long it takes to take down the same enemies as I level up and still use the lower gear. I just don't want to craft set after set on a character that is simply grinding for 50. I want everything in training to get it over as fast as possible, so I'm not using the higher level stuff I pick up.

Prof_Bawbag · January 2017

I think enough gear drops nowadays to get you through to level 50. Training gear fair enough, but if you're not after training gear, then crafting and farming gear can be completely ignored. After level 50 is worse because you earn CP hand over fist until around 80-100. I just remember zooming waaaaay up the CPs in the beginning. So much so, I was missing a lot of level specific mats due to how fast things were going.

Saying that, the mat thing was before 1T, so that doesn't really come into play any more.

rotaugen454 · January 2017

I've made it to level 44 grinding in low gear. Now I just try to gain one level per day in a bit of grinding and in 6 levels I can equip 160CP gear. All the Viper, Red Mountain, etc that I've picked up in levels of 24-40 will be deconned or sold to vendor. I have several maxed out characters, so any new character is just made to grind as fast as possible to 50, then go skyshard hunting. If it were one of my first characters, I'd focus more on the quests and storyline.

Emencie · January 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

It's not pointless. When you are lower in level, the gear shows better stats. As your level goes up, the gear scales down the further your level goes passed it. I've noticed that while leveling my alt.

I think that is what he means though right?

If at level 1 your gear gives you +50 stat, then you level up to level 10 and it now gives you +40 stat, you have to get level 10 gear to get your +50 stat again right?

Well then if feels like you haven't gained anything, just stayed the same.

When you get to level 50/CP100 and you upgrade your gear for the 40th time and your gear is still giving you +50 stat It can make the leveling process feel a bit stale. Because you are not being rewarded for upgrading your gear, instead you are avoiding punishment for not upgrading your gear.

STEVIL · January 2017

Mikkiz1990b16_ESO wrote: »

i now see that the gear you get from leveling is just as good as level 130 gear. which makes vomit abit... i mean, whats the whole point of leveling if you dont get any gear at all , i got a ring for lvl 45 which has the SAME stats as my lvl 130 cp's ring. so what is the whole reason to have gear in lower level? when the gear doesnt become better as you level from 50 to cp 160.

More skills and options - leveling is now much more what some call horizontal - about gaining different choices, more choices, better choices and being able to take on different challenges successfully.

i mean you can equip your level 10 char with gold level 10 gear and go for it in maelstrom but without heals or shields or bar swapping and with 1-2 ranks in the half-dozen skills you do have, you might not make it thru as quickly.

But really, try that lvl 45 ring on the cp130.

LordGavus wrote: »

The stats scale to the character level. Put the L45 ring on your cp130 and that stats will scale down and be much worse.

This is right.

Really its no different than before.

Before 1T: if your gear matched the level of your character and the enemies you were on par. if the gear was lower level you were worse off. (this was accomplished by having gear and enemies stats rise as "their" level go up.)

After 1T: if your gear matched the level of your character and the enemies you were on par. if the gear was lower level you were worse off. (this is accomplished by having the scaling adjust your capabilities while the enemies remain constant.)

The math behind the scenes is reversed but the overall same net effect is produced - except for your ability to go squash much lower level NPCs for next to no gain on purpose or by outleveling - which was basically lost - and everywhere now being "on par" so all content is usable and re-usable regardless of sequence..

starkerealm · January 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

i mean you can equip your level 10 char with gold level 10 gear and go for it in maelstrom but without heals or shields or bar swapping and with 1-2 ranks in the half-dozen skills you do have, you might not make it thru as quickly.

Honestly, if you're level 10, I'd be surprised if you make it through Malestrom at all. Even with inflated stats.

kylewwefan · January 2017

At lower levels, some armor is really good while some is poo at high level. Maw the infernal, morkuldin, even ashen grip are good and fun at lower level but somewhat underperform at 160. Likewise Hundings, Julianos, TBS aren't so great at low level.
I would totally agree gear grinding is totally pointless til CP 160. I would mostly only switch out stuff I find in training.

DHale · January 2017

No training gear is not useless.

Saltypretzels · January 2017

The leveling system is strange, but it works for making the world open.

I agree it is really weird that upgrading your gear while leveling just maintains the status quo rather than actual making you better. (leveling skills, getting items sets, though, do make you better... I think)

Soafee · January 2017

What are you talking about? I've been upgrading my gear the entire time with better stuff. I"m not 160 yet.

Myyth · January 2017

I came to the same realization when I got my first level 50 to CP160.
So I then cleared my bank and deconed all of the lvl 10-50 sets I had. From now on Ill just craft armor for my alts till they reach level cap. There is no point farming or collecting low level sets.

It does annoy me though when I'm playing one of my low level alts and I end up getting a piece of armor ive been trying to collect for months but its not CP160 so its a total waste

maybe they should have some crafting method to upgrade the item level of gear.

dramsb14_ESO · January 2017

Leveling to unlock skills is still required to become truly powerful, whether from finding skyshards or from advancing your class/weapon lines. Gear is less of a factor than it was until you get to CP 160. However, if you don't keep updating your gear as you level you WILL feel it, so you still "feel" the difference in a sense as you get upgrades, just not in the same fashion as you may be accustomed to.

driosketch · January 2017

Level 1 - CP159 your gear level only matters as far as maximizing your scaled stats by keeping as close to you current level as is reasonable. Most of your progress will be horizontal as you trade over buffed stats for new passives and the like.

leepalmer95 · January 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

i mean you can equip your level 10 char with gold level 10 gear and go for it in maelstrom but without heals or shields or bar swapping and with 1-2 ranks in the half-dozen skills you do have, you might not make it thru as quickly.

Honestly, if you're level 10, I'd be surprised if you make it through Malestrom at all. Even with inflated stats.

It's actually not too hard, at least not with a magplar.

Just a bit of sustain and crafted gear and you can literally just sweep your way through normal MSA.

Saltypretzels · January 2017

Soafee wrote: »

What are you talking about? I've been upgrading my gear the entire time with better stuff. I"m not 160 yet.

Well sure you can "upgrade" it, but it won't change your stats much. It just keeps them at the scaled status quo.

Castagere · January 2017

Danikat wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Mikkiz1990b16_ESO wrote: »

i now see that the gear you get from leveling is just as good as level 130 gear. which makes vomit abit... i mean, whats the whole point of leveling if you dont get any gear at all , i got a ring for lvl 45 which has the SAME stats as my lvl 130 cp's ring. so what is the whole reason to have gear in lower level? when the gear doesnt become better as you level from 50 to cp 160.

It's not pointless. When you are lower in level, the gear shows better stats. As your level goes up, the gear scales down the further your level goes passed it. I've noticed that while leveling my alt.

At least I think that's how it works, or I've finally gone bonkers.

So, when you get to max level and compare low level gear to high level gear, the low level gear will have comparatively lower stats. High level gear will look normal to you.

That is how it works.

In a way it actually means it's more important to keep your gear up to date now. Before you could simply out-level most content, leave it long enough and you could do it naked. Now that's not an option because you and all the enemies are always scaled to level 50/160CP, so if you're not wearing equipment or wearing stuff well below your level it's going to have a big impact on your stats.

If you don't believe me try this: Make a new character and take them straight to one of the DLC zones, or any high-end map but if you own them the DLC maps are quicker to reach, and see how you do against enemies there. I tried that shortly before One Tamriel was announced - I was subbed temporarily and wanted to try out the DLC. I didn't want to 'mess up' an existing character so I made a new one, thinking it didn't matter and let me tell you it does. Getting a full set of actual armour at my level made a HUGE difference over doing it in my soul-shriven rags. I could even survive fighting 2 enemies at once!

Yeah lol i did this too. I went to the Orc zone from the dlc at lvl 30 something and was getting my but kicked. The problem seems to be alot of new players coming into the game with the wrong mindset about how this game works. Its not like your average mmo. The game really is a different beast.

KimberlyannKitsuragi · January 2017

For decon and research

QUEZ420 · January 2017

I grinded my characters from 1-50 wit the same set of training gear n then swapped to my banked sets waiting for me at cp rank. Ez pezy.

starkerealm · January 2017

QUEZ420 wrote: »

I grinded my characters from 1-50 wit the same set of training gear n then swapped to my banked sets waiting for me at cp rank. Ez pezy.

"Ground." The past tense of "grind" is "ground." Because English is a language composed of dragging other languages into a dark alley and tearing out anything that looks vaguely useful or novel.

But, yeah, I've done that too, a few times.

jaye63 · January 2017

I worried about this with my first character. That is until I realized that I outleveled my gear pretty quick. So I used whatever came along that fit my toon and swapped out frequently. Now Im farming sets. Gear set up is fine. The only thing gear wise that you really need is training gear to make it go faster. lv 10, 20, 30 and 40 training gear that you save. Which would be 12 sets to include light med and heavy. Especially if you have at least 1 toon at or above 160CP

srfrogg23 · January 2017

Emencie wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

It's not pointless. When you are lower in level, the gear shows better stats. As your level goes up, the gear scales down the further your level goes passed it. I've noticed that while leveling my alt.

I think that is what he means though right?

If at level 1 your gear gives you +50 stat, then you level up to level 10 and it now gives you +40 stat, you have to get level 10 gear to get your +50 stat again right?

Well then if feels like you haven't gained anything, just stayed the same.

When you get to level 50/CP100 and you upgrade your gear for the 40th time and your gear is still giving you +50 stat It can make the leveling process feel a bit stale. Because you are not being rewarded for upgrading your gear, instead you are avoiding punishment for not upgrading your gear.

It's a matter of perspective whether or not this system is rewarding.

In normal zone-to-zone progression you're still using the same mechanic of replacing the old gear with the new gear to prepare your character for the next zone so that the challenge level stays even with your character's level. The numbers for you and the NPCs just get bigger across the board.

The trade off with that system is that as you level and earn new gear by progressing from one zone to the next, the content of the previous zone becomes irrelevant in terms of challenge and rewards.

ESO's system turns ESO into an open world sandbox with the same gear progression mechanic as a game that uses zone-to-zone progression.

Because the game rolls back the equipment and stats bonuses for the player as the player levels, it forces them to continually update their gear to keep the challenge level even with the character level while ensuring that all of the content remains relevant at all levels. I.e. Go where you want and do what you want whenever you want to.

Yes, in many ways you're basically just fighting atrophy with this system, but I think the trade off of being able to do any zone in any order you feel like is well worth it.

I think this one of the few times where Zenimax should have told a tiny little lie to the players by expressing the damage numbers and stats as a ratio to the character's level instead of being so straightforward about what the numbers actually look like behind the scenes.

Maybe the OP doesn't feel that way, or maybe they haven't thought about it from that perspective yet.