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Would you like to see a Sword and Shield passive similar to DW/2H?
Savos_Saren
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I've always considered the last passive, battlefield mobility, of the sword and shield to be somewhat insignificant. I propose this:
-While using a mace and shield: gain 2.5% physical and spell penetration
-While using a dagger and shield: gain 5% weapon and spell critical
-While using an axe and shield: gain 2.5% increase to weapon/spell damage over time
-While using a sword and shield: gain 2.5% weapon/spell damage
Edited by Savos_Saren on January 12, 2017 5:07PM -While using a mace and shield: gain 2.5% physical and spell penetration
-While using a dagger and shield: gain 5% weapon and spell critical
-While using an axe and shield: gain 2.5% increase to weapon/spell damage over time
-While using a sword and shield: gain 2.5% weapon/spell damage
Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
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Savos Saren
PC NA AD
Savos Saren
Would you like to see a Sword and Shield passive similar to DW/2H? 78 votes
Yes- that's an awesome idea!
25%
20 votes
No- I like battlefield mobility
64%
50 votes
Other- That's close... but here's my suggestion!
10%
8 votes
0
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Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes- that's an awesome idea!@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No- I like battlefield mobility@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.4 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes- that's an awesome idea!@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren1 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other- That's close... but here's my suggestion!I'd like a difference between weapon types but battlefield mobility is more useful than a marginal difference in damage.
I'd like them to actually be useful for tanking, like
dagger gives 3% dodge
mace gives a small armor debuff on hit
axe gives a small damage debuff on hit
sword taunts on heavy attack7 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No- I like battlefield mobility@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
Doesn't have to be numerous times, it's any dmg, small dot dmg, cp dmg etc... Wraith is up pretty much all the time when your fighting. It's can easily be up near 100% of the time when your fighting 1 person.
Also if you actually played pvp you would know that heavy gives up no crit and hardly any damage compared to medium. Armor type doesn't make a difference to stam or magicka either.
Not sure why a tank needs dmg to defend itself..?
Now back on topic, s&b is a defensive type of weapon, if you want offence you go dw or you go 2h.
s&b is mean't to protect in exchange for lower damage, s&b does NOT need any type of dmg buff.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...4 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No- I like battlefield mobility@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
1 DoT or simply standing on Caltrops well fully proc it. There is hardly few seconds in fights when it isn't fully procced. Tanks should not able be to kill anything. They already have extra healing from heavy passives. Before wrath, there were tanks but they didn't kill anything. Now tanks roll over light armor and medium armor users.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
Doesn't have to be numerous times, it's any dmg, small dot dmg, cp dmg etc... Wraith is up pretty much all the time when your fighting. It's can easily be up near 100% of the time when your fighting 1 person.
Also if you actually played pvp you would know that heavy gives up no crit and hardly any damage compared to medium. Armor type doesn't make a difference to stam or magicka either.
Not sure why a tank needs dmg to defend itself..?
Now back on topic, s&b is a defensive type of weapon, if you want offence you go dw or you go 2h.
s&b is mean't to protect in exchange for lower damage, s&b does NOT need any type of dmg buff.
While I agree with the spirit of your post, this is factually wrong. Wearing five light, you get 10% more crit and for ever piece of medium, you get 2%, so up to 14%(I am not sure about this but it sounds right). This is a huge amount.0 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No- I like battlefield mobilitySword and Shield is the strongest stamina weapon skill line in PvP. No need for any sort of damage buff.
And in PvE it wouldn't matter anyway.Susano'o
Zerg Squad0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No- I like battlefield mobilityLightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
Doesn't have to be numerous times, it's any dmg, small dot dmg, cp dmg etc... Wraith is up pretty much all the time when your fighting. It's can easily be up near 100% of the time when your fighting 1 person.
Also if you actually played pvp you would know that heavy gives up no crit and hardly any damage compared to medium. Armor type doesn't make a difference to stam or magicka either.
Not sure why a tank needs dmg to defend itself..?
Now back on topic, s&b is a defensive type of weapon, if you want offence you go dw or you go 2h.
s&b is mean't to protect in exchange for lower damage, s&b does NOT need any type of dmg buff.
While I agree with the spirit of your post, this is factually wrong. Wearing five light, you get 10% more crit and for ever piece of medium, you get 2%, so up to 14%(I am not sure about this but it sounds right). This is a huge amount.
And heavy is that good you don't need regen mundus and instead go thief to make up for it. So no crit lost.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
Doesn't have to be numerous times, it's any dmg, small dot dmg, cp dmg etc... Wraith is up pretty much all the time when your fighting. It's can easily be up near 100% of the time when your fighting 1 person.
Also if you actually played pvp you would know that heavy gives up no crit and hardly any damage compared to medium. Armor type doesn't make a difference to stam or magicka either.
Not sure why a tank needs dmg to defend itself..?
Now back on topic, s&b is a defensive type of weapon, if you want offence you go dw or you go 2h.
s&b is mean't to protect in exchange for lower damage, s&b does NOT need any type of dmg buff.
While I agree with the spirit of your post, this is factually wrong. Wearing five light, you get 10% more crit and for ever piece of medium, you get 2%, so up to 14%(I am not sure about this but it sounds right). This is a huge amount.
And heavy is that good you don't need regen mundus and instead go thief to make up for it. So no crit lost.
What DPS would be using a regen mundas? They use the theif as well, so still losing crit. Not too mention the 4884 spell penetration and 12% from light and medium respectively.
Unless you are talking about PvP, then you lose out on the cost reduction of the armor, which is huge also, 15% for five pieces and 21% for all seven.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on January 12, 2017 7:21AM1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No- I like battlefield mobilityLightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
Doesn't have to be numerous times, it's any dmg, small dot dmg, cp dmg etc... Wraith is up pretty much all the time when your fighting. It's can easily be up near 100% of the time when your fighting 1 person.
Also if you actually played pvp you would know that heavy gives up no crit and hardly any damage compared to medium. Armor type doesn't make a difference to stam or magicka either.
Not sure why a tank needs dmg to defend itself..?
Now back on topic, s&b is a defensive type of weapon, if you want offence you go dw or you go 2h.
s&b is mean't to protect in exchange for lower damage, s&b does NOT need any type of dmg buff.
While I agree with the spirit of your post, this is factually wrong. Wearing five light, you get 10% more crit and for ever piece of medium, you get 2%, so up to 14%(I am not sure about this but it sounds right). This is a huge amount.
And heavy is that good you don't need regen mundus and instead go thief to make up for it. So no crit lost.
What DPS would be using a regen mundas? They use the theif as well, so still losing crit. Not too mention the 4884 spell penetration and 12% from light and medium respectively.
Unless you are talking about PvP, then you lose out on the cost reduction of the armor, which is huge also, 15% for five pieces and 21% for all seven.
In regards to pve, why do pve tanks need damage? In fact by does dmg in pve need to increase even more? The power creep is a thing.
I was mainly talking about pvp, if the cost reduction is so important why are there heavy armor stam builds running around with all damage gear and 600 stam regen while having perfect sustain?
I'd like to see a medium or light user run around with 600 regen and sustain perfectly like heavy builds do.
Fun fact the wraith passive and the medium passive increase weapon damage by pretty much the same amount of most builds.Edited by leepalmer95 on January 12, 2017 7:24AMPS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes- that's an awesome idea!leepalmer95 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
Doesn't have to be numerous times, it's any dmg, small dot dmg, cp dmg etc... Wraith is up pretty much all the time when your fighting. It's can easily be up near 100% of the time when your fighting 1 person.
Also if you actually played pvp you would know that heavy gives up no crit and hardly any damage compared to medium. Armor type doesn't make a difference to stam or magicka either.
Not sure why a tank needs dmg to defend itself..?
Now back on topic, s&b is a defensive type of weapon, if you want offence you go dw or you go 2h.
s&b is mean't to protect in exchange for lower damage, s&b does NOT need any type of dmg buff.
While I agree with the spirit of your post, this is factually wrong. Wearing five light, you get 10% more crit and for ever piece of medium, you get 2%, so up to 14%(I am not sure about this but it sounds right). This is a huge amount.
And heavy is that good you don't need regen mundus and instead go thief to make up for it. So no crit lost.
Actually, I do PVP... last I checked- I'm #155 in the leaderboard of how many thousand players? Regardless...
Heavy armor passives receive no weapon/spell crit bonus as opposed to medium or light armor passives. You might want to do your research first.
A tank does need damage to defend himself- otherwise, they're just punching bags. They need a reason to draw aggro... and they need to be able to successfully kill opponents (albeit- it won't be nearly as fast as a pure DD)... otherwise, there's no sense of having a tank in PVP. Players would completely ignore them.
Saying that SnB isn't meant to have ANY damage buff is like saying that pure DDs aren't supposed to have any protection/defense buff. Be realistic, man.
Edit: Furthermore... I don't know ANY heavy armor builds (besides MAYBE Black Rose) that don't invest in the regen mundus stones in PVP. I'm not sure where you got your source from that.Edited by Savos_Saren on January 12, 2017 7:31AMWant to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No- I like battlefield mobilityleepalmer95 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
Doesn't have to be numerous times, it's any dmg, small dot dmg, cp dmg etc... Wraith is up pretty much all the time when your fighting. It's can easily be up near 100% of the time when your fighting 1 person.
Also if you actually played pvp you would know that heavy gives up no crit and hardly any damage compared to medium. Armor type doesn't make a difference to stam or magicka either.
Not sure why a tank needs dmg to defend itself..?
Now back on topic, s&b is a defensive type of weapon, if you want offence you go dw or you go 2h.
s&b is mean't to protect in exchange for lower damage, s&b does NOT need any type of dmg buff.
While I agree with the spirit of your post, this is factually wrong. Wearing five light, you get 10% more crit and for ever piece of medium, you get 2%, so up to 14%(I am not sure about this but it sounds right). This is a huge amount.
And heavy is that good you don't need regen mundus and instead go thief to make up for it. So no crit lost.
Actually, I do PVP... last I checked- I'm #155 in the leaderboard of how many thousand players? Regardless...
Heavy armor passives receive no weapon/spell crit bonus as opposed to medium or light armor passives. You might want to do your research first.
A tank does need damage to defend himself- otherwise, they're just punching bags. They need a reason to draw aggro... and they need to be able to successfully kill opponents (albeit- it won't be nearly as fast as a pure DD)... otherwise, there's no sense of having a tank in PVP. Players would completely ignore them.
Saying that SnB isn't meant to have ANY damage buff is like saying that pure DDs aren't supposed to have any protection/defense buff. Be realistic, man.
1. Your leaderboard rank is irrelevant especially with it being that low.
2. I have done my 'research', your not reading what i said properly. In pvp you can sustain perfectly with 600~ on most builds and therefore when using heavy you can go thief to offset the crit loss of the passives, so you don't lose nay crit chance at all.
3. A tank does not need damage, it's a tank it's entire purpose is to take agro and take dmg in pve and in pvp a tank should have to give up something and currently it doesn't it has it all, burst, sustain, armor, hp, healing.
Saying S&B should should receive damage buffs it like saying dual daggers should receive defensive buffs in the form of 5 armor passive and reduced damage and block costs.
In Pve tanks don't need to do damage.
In pvp they already do enough which you'd know if you actually played pvp enough.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Other- That's close... but here's my suggestion!(If anything) I would go for something defensive like "parry", "disarm" with a reasonable %-chance depending on the weapon type while blocking.You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
Doesn't have to be numerous times, it's any dmg, small dot dmg, cp dmg etc... Wraith is up pretty much all the time when your fighting. It's can easily be up near 100% of the time when your fighting 1 person.
Also if you actually played pvp you would know that heavy gives up no crit and hardly any damage compared to medium. Armor type doesn't make a difference to stam or magicka either.
Not sure why a tank needs dmg to defend itself..?
Now back on topic, s&b is a defensive type of weapon, if you want offence you go dw or you go 2h.
s&b is mean't to protect in exchange for lower damage, s&b does NOT need any type of dmg buff.
While I agree with the spirit of your post, this is factually wrong. Wearing five light, you get 10% more crit and for ever piece of medium, you get 2%, so up to 14%(I am not sure about this but it sounds right). This is a huge amount.
And heavy is that good you don't need regen mundus and instead go thief to make up for it. So no crit lost.
What DPS would be using a regen mundas? They use the theif as well, so still losing crit. Not too mention the 4884 spell penetration and 12% from light and medium respectively.
Unless you are talking about PvP, then you lose out on the cost reduction of the armor, which is huge also, 15% for five pieces and 21% for all seven.
In regards to pve, why do pve tanks need damage? In fact by does dmg in pve need to increase even more? The power creep is a thing.
I was mainly talking about pvp, if the cost reduction is so important why are there heavy armor stam builds running around with all damage gear and 600 stam regen while having perfect sustain?
I'd like to see a medium or light user run around with 600 regen and sustain perfectly like heavy builds do.
Fun fact the wraith passive and the medium passive increase weapon damage by pretty much the same amount of most builds.
I told you already that I agree with most of your post, I would love some defensive passives tied to the weapons but when you state something that is clearly wrong, it undermines your whole post.0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes- that's an awesome idea!leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
Doesn't have to be numerous times, it's any dmg, small dot dmg, cp dmg etc... Wraith is up pretty much all the time when your fighting. It's can easily be up near 100% of the time when your fighting 1 person.
Also if you actually played pvp you would know that heavy gives up no crit and hardly any damage compared to medium. Armor type doesn't make a difference to stam or magicka either.
Not sure why a tank needs dmg to defend itself..?
Now back on topic, s&b is a defensive type of weapon, if you want offence you go dw or you go 2h.
s&b is mean't to protect in exchange for lower damage, s&b does NOT need any type of dmg buff.
While I agree with the spirit of your post, this is factually wrong. Wearing five light, you get 10% more crit and for ever piece of medium, you get 2%, so up to 14%(I am not sure about this but it sounds right). This is a huge amount.
And heavy is that good you don't need regen mundus and instead go thief to make up for it. So no crit lost.
Actually, I do PVP... last I checked- I'm #155 in the leaderboard of how many thousand players? Regardless...
Heavy armor passives receive no weapon/spell crit bonus as opposed to medium or light armor passives. You might want to do your research first.
A tank does need damage to defend himself- otherwise, they're just punching bags. They need a reason to draw aggro... and they need to be able to successfully kill opponents (albeit- it won't be nearly as fast as a pure DD)... otherwise, there's no sense of having a tank in PVP. Players would completely ignore them.
Saying that SnB isn't meant to have ANY damage buff is like saying that pure DDs aren't supposed to have any protection/defense buff. Be realistic, man.
1. Your leaderboard rank is irrelevant especially with it being that low.
2. I have done my 'research', your not reading what i said properly. In pvp you can sustain perfectly with 600~ on most builds and therefore when using heavy you can go thief to offset the crit loss of the passives, so you don't lose nay crit chance at all.
3. A tank does not need damage, it's a tank it's entire purpose is to take agro and take dmg in pve and in pvp a tank should have to give up something and currently it doesn't it has it all, burst, sustain, armor, hp, healing.
Saying S&B should should receive damage buffs it like saying dual daggers should receive defensive buffs in the form of 5 armor passive and reduced damage and block costs.
In Pve tanks don't need to do damage.
In pvp they already do enough which you'd know if you actually played pvp enough.
1. 155/~3000 is about the top 20%. If that's low- then I guess no one graduates college with a 3.0 average.
2. Where in the hell do you get the idea that people can sustain with 600 regen on builds in pvp???
3. A tank HAS to do some damage- otherwise it would get completely ignored in PVP. I don't know why you can't grasp that concept.
Saying a S&B should get a damage buff is the same as saying that a ice destro staff should get a defensive buff. ::ahem:: What now?
In PVE tanks should be able to do damage. As a matter of fact- one of the main tanking sets, Alkosh, does damage to enemies while debuffing them. So, maybe, I dunno... if you actually PVEed, you know that.
In PVP, a tank is expected to do damage, too. I know that.. because I PVP, too.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0 -
KochDerDamonen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mmm, I like the idea but to be honest...
I've always wished that melee weapons altered their skill line's spells as Destruction staves do. And now that you've made me think of that, I'm probably going to spend a few hours writing that up as a conceptIf you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes- that's an awesome idea!KochDerDamonen wrote: »Mmm, I like the idea but to be honest...
I've always wished that melee weapons altered their skill line's spells as Destruction staves do. And now that you've made me think of that, I'm probably going to spend a few hours writing that up as a concept
I agree with some defensive skills for DW, Bow, and 2H.
Honestly, I've always thought a 2H should get a slight block bonus. Not as powerful as a SnB... but it would make sense if they got a 5% extra block ability. Realistically, you'd be able to block a little better with a 2H sword.
A bow could give you a slight dodge bonus. Bows are light and you'd be able to move swiftly with them.
A DW weapon should give you a slight "blinding" bonus. 2% chance to strike your blades together to create sparks. It would blind your enemy to miss attacks for 1.5 seconds...
For Destro staves... I dunno. You'll have to be creative with that. Perhaps a 2% chance to absorb a magicka attack from an enemy.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No- I like battlefield mobilityIt already has a damage passive. Granted, doesn't help magica, but sword and board is really strong already.
Plus I like the fact I can use anything when using sword and board. Farming/buying sets is a lot better.Edited by Brrrofski on January 12, 2017 8:05AM0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No- I like battlefield mobilityleepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
Doesn't have to be numerous times, it's any dmg, small dot dmg, cp dmg etc... Wraith is up pretty much all the time when your fighting. It's can easily be up near 100% of the time when your fighting 1 person.
Also if you actually played pvp you would know that heavy gives up no crit and hardly any damage compared to medium. Armor type doesn't make a difference to stam or magicka either.
Not sure why a tank needs dmg to defend itself..?
Now back on topic, s&b is a defensive type of weapon, if you want offence you go dw or you go 2h.
s&b is mean't to protect in exchange for lower damage, s&b does NOT need any type of dmg buff.
While I agree with the spirit of your post, this is factually wrong. Wearing five light, you get 10% more crit and for ever piece of medium, you get 2%, so up to 14%(I am not sure about this but it sounds right). This is a huge amount.
And heavy is that good you don't need regen mundus and instead go thief to make up for it. So no crit lost.
Actually, I do PVP... last I checked- I'm #155 in the leaderboard of how many thousand players? Regardless...
Heavy armor passives receive no weapon/spell crit bonus as opposed to medium or light armor passives. You might want to do your research first.
A tank does need damage to defend himself- otherwise, they're just punching bags. They need a reason to draw aggro... and they need to be able to successfully kill opponents (albeit- it won't be nearly as fast as a pure DD)... otherwise, there's no sense of having a tank in PVP. Players would completely ignore them.
Saying that SnB isn't meant to have ANY damage buff is like saying that pure DDs aren't supposed to have any protection/defense buff. Be realistic, man.
1. Your leaderboard rank is irrelevant especially with it being that low.
2. I have done my 'research', your not reading what i said properly. In pvp you can sustain perfectly with 600~ on most builds and therefore when using heavy you can go thief to offset the crit loss of the passives, so you don't lose nay crit chance at all.
3. A tank does not need damage, it's a tank it's entire purpose is to take agro and take dmg in pve and in pvp a tank should have to give up something and currently it doesn't it has it all, burst, sustain, armor, hp, healing.
Saying S&B should should receive damage buffs it like saying dual daggers should receive defensive buffs in the form of 5 armor passive and reduced damage and block costs.
In Pve tanks don't need to do damage.
In pvp they already do enough which you'd know if you actually played pvp enough.
1. 155/~3000 is about the top 20%. If that's low- then I guess no one graduates college with a 3.0 average.
2. Where in the hell do you get the idea that people can sustain with 600 regen on builds in pvp???
3. A tank HAS to do some damage- otherwise it would get completely ignored in PVP. I don't know why you can't grasp that concept.
Saying a S&B should get a damage buff is the same as saying that a ice destro staff should get a defensive buff. ::ahem:: What now?
In PVE tanks should be able to do damage. As a matter of fact- one of the main tanking sets, Alkosh, does damage to enemies while debuffing them. So, maybe, I dunno... if you actually PVEed, you know that.
In PVP, a tank is expected to do damage, too. I know that.. because I PVP, too.
1. The first 2000 won't have higher than 10k ap usually, 200-500 play but barely, it's only usually in the top 200 that people actually play and even then it's still easily possible to not play a campaign for 29 days and get into the top 200 on the last day or two before it ends.
2. Where do i get the idea? What idea? it's true. I can sustain perfectly fine using 5x, fury, 5x viper, msa weps with 600 regen. It's not an idea it's a fact.
3. Tanks in pvp do the same if not more damage than medium or light users imply because most heavy builds don't have to build for regen because of the sustain they get from heavy works so well with class skills or passive. More specifically classes that can turn 1 resource into another for sustain.
I can handle the concept of tanks needing to do damage to not be ignored, but they already do damage just perfectly, infact they already do too much as 'tanks'. Why do they need to have damage added to it. This tank meta is already bad enough.
The ice staff change was simple, s&b for stam tanks, ice for magicka tanks. Not comparable to DPS type weapons getting blocking buffs or flat armor values.
In PVE tanks can do damage, they shouldn't be built to do damage because main purpose is to tank. They do not need a dps buff at all, this will just unnecessarily increase the power creep. I've never heard of a pve tank complain about them having a lack of dps. In regards to alkosh yes it does damage but you don't wear it for the damage you wear it FOR the debuff. Because that is what pve tanks are mean't to do, keep agro, tank, debuff the enemy and buff their allies.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes- that's an awesome idea!leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
Doesn't have to be numerous times, it's any dmg, small dot dmg, cp dmg etc... Wraith is up pretty much all the time when your fighting. It's can easily be up near 100% of the time when your fighting 1 person.
Also if you actually played pvp you would know that heavy gives up no crit and hardly any damage compared to medium. Armor type doesn't make a difference to stam or magicka either.
Not sure why a tank needs dmg to defend itself..?
Now back on topic, s&b is a defensive type of weapon, if you want offence you go dw or you go 2h.
s&b is mean't to protect in exchange for lower damage, s&b does NOT need any type of dmg buff.
While I agree with the spirit of your post, this is factually wrong. Wearing five light, you get 10% more crit and for ever piece of medium, you get 2%, so up to 14%(I am not sure about this but it sounds right). This is a huge amount.
And heavy is that good you don't need regen mundus and instead go thief to make up for it. So no crit lost.
Actually, I do PVP... last I checked- I'm #155 in the leaderboard of how many thousand players? Regardless...
Heavy armor passives receive no weapon/spell crit bonus as opposed to medium or light armor passives. You might want to do your research first.
A tank does need damage to defend himself- otherwise, they're just punching bags. They need a reason to draw aggro... and they need to be able to successfully kill opponents (albeit- it won't be nearly as fast as a pure DD)... otherwise, there's no sense of having a tank in PVP. Players would completely ignore them.
Saying that SnB isn't meant to have ANY damage buff is like saying that pure DDs aren't supposed to have any protection/defense buff. Be realistic, man.
1. Your leaderboard rank is irrelevant especially with it being that low.
2. I have done my 'research', your not reading what i said properly. In pvp you can sustain perfectly with 600~ on most builds and therefore when using heavy you can go thief to offset the crit loss of the passives, so you don't lose nay crit chance at all.
3. A tank does not need damage, it's a tank it's entire purpose is to take agro and take dmg in pve and in pvp a tank should have to give up something and currently it doesn't it has it all, burst, sustain, armor, hp, healing.
Saying S&B should should receive damage buffs it like saying dual daggers should receive defensive buffs in the form of 5 armor passive and reduced damage and block costs.
In Pve tanks don't need to do damage.
In pvp they already do enough which you'd know if you actually played pvp enough.
1. 155/~3000 is about the top 20%. If that's low- then I guess no one graduates college with a 3.0 average.
2. Where in the hell do you get the idea that people can sustain with 600 regen on builds in pvp???
3. A tank HAS to do some damage- otherwise it would get completely ignored in PVP. I don't know why you can't grasp that concept.
Saying a S&B should get a damage buff is the same as saying that a ice destro staff should get a defensive buff. ::ahem:: What now?
In PVE tanks should be able to do damage. As a matter of fact- one of the main tanking sets, Alkosh, does damage to enemies while debuffing them. So, maybe, I dunno... if you actually PVEed, you know that.
In PVP, a tank is expected to do damage, too. I know that.. because I PVP, too.
1. The first 2000 won't have higher than 10k ap usually, 200-500 play but barely, it's only usually in the top 200 that people actually play and even then it's still easily possible to not play a campaign for 29 days and get into the top 200 on the last day or two before it ends.
2. Where do i get the idea? What idea? it's true. I can sustain perfectly fine using 5x, fury, 5x viper, msa weps with 600 regen. It's not an idea it's a fact.
3. Tanks in pvp do the same if not more damage than medium or light users imply because most heavy builds don't have to build for regen because of the sustain they get from heavy works so well with class skills or passive. More specifically classes that can turn 1 resource into another for sustain.
I can handle the concept of tanks needing to do damage to not be ignored, but they already do damage just perfectly, infact they already do too much as 'tanks'. Why do they need to have damage added to it. This tank meta is already bad enough.
The ice staff change was simple, s&b for stam tanks, ice for magicka tanks. Not comparable to DPS type weapons getting blocking buffs or flat armor values.
In PVE tanks can do damage, they shouldn't be built to do damage because main purpose is to tank. They do not need a dps buff at all, this will just unnecessarily increase the power creep. I've never heard of a pve tank complain about them having a lack of dps. In regards to alkosh yes it does damage but you don't wear it for the damage you wear it FOR the debuff. Because that is what pve tanks are mean't to do, keep agro, tank, debuff the enemy and buff their allies.
1. I'll agree with you 100% if you work for zenimax and you can pull those numbers up on a chart. Otherwise, you're pulling them from your @$$ to try to impress people with some fake statistics. I should know. 98.7% of people that use this forum would agree that 1,302 people who post just make up numbers 12.7% are statistically incompetent while 900-1500 rely on numbers to prove inaccurate "factual" posts that use fake values. (you see what I did there?)
2. Your quote "...5x, fury, 5x viper, msa weps with 600 regen" is the epitome of this discussion about heavy armored tanks doing damage... and you DISAGREE with it?!?! Unless you don't actually run with 5 fury, 5 viper, and msa weapons with 600 regen... then, you're completely bullsh*tting the fact that 600 regen is enough to sustain. Which is it, bud? Either you actually run with that gear and you agree that tanks should be able to do damage... or you don't actually run with that gear and you don't realize that 600 regen isn't enough for sustainability.
3. You also should realize that while PVP tanks wear heavy armor as their primary set with DPS-oriented secondary sets (jewelry sword and board)- light/medium armored players can wear DPS sets as their primary gear with defensive (usually heavy armor) sets as their secondary gear (jewelry and weapons)? They CHOOSE NOT TO. Damage dealers CAN have more suriviability to keep them alive against tanks and other damage dealers... but they want to stack damage dealing sets with other damage dealing sets. And, when it comes to classes, most classes have defensive skills that increase their resistances. How is that different from class abilities that return resources? Everyone's got it. Some people choose not to use it.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The tanks are wearing alkosh for the armor reduce it provides for the group. No one uses alkosh for its damage. Even if it dealt 5k damage to you the tanks would still run it.leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
PvP is already filled enough with tanks who double as damage dealers too with Wrath passive.
Wrath only works when you're getting hit numerous times. That's either a constant strike by a light armored wearer with hella spell penetration/crit or a medium armor wearer with hella weapon damage/crit. Or... that's multiple strikes by multiple enemies... in either case- Wrath is necessary. Heavy armor gives you health and resources. It doesn't give you crit. It doesn't give you penetration. It doesn't add to the resource pools (stam or magicka) that increase your weapon/spell abilities. Wrath is the one thing that helps a tank defend itself.
Doesn't have to be numerous times, it's any dmg, small dot dmg, cp dmg etc... Wraith is up pretty much all the time when your fighting. It's can easily be up near 100% of the time when your fighting 1 person.
Also if you actually played pvp you would know that heavy gives up no crit and hardly any damage compared to medium. Armor type doesn't make a difference to stam or magicka either.
Not sure why a tank needs dmg to defend itself..?
Now back on topic, s&b is a defensive type of weapon, if you want offence you go dw or you go 2h.
s&b is mean't to protect in exchange for lower damage, s&b does NOT need any type of dmg buff.
While I agree with the spirit of your post, this is factually wrong. Wearing five light, you get 10% more crit and for ever piece of medium, you get 2%, so up to 14%(I am not sure about this but it sounds right). This is a huge amount.
And heavy is that good you don't need regen mundus and instead go thief to make up for it. So no crit lost.
Actually, I do PVP... last I checked- I'm #155 in the leaderboard of how many thousand players? Regardless...
Heavy armor passives receive no weapon/spell crit bonus as opposed to medium or light armor passives. You might want to do your research first.
A tank does need damage to defend himself- otherwise, they're just punching bags. They need a reason to draw aggro... and they need to be able to successfully kill opponents (albeit- it won't be nearly as fast as a pure DD)... otherwise, there's no sense of having a tank in PVP. Players would completely ignore them.
Saying that SnB isn't meant to have ANY damage buff is like saying that pure DDs aren't supposed to have any protection/defense buff. Be realistic, man.
1. Your leaderboard rank is irrelevant especially with it being that low.
2. I have done my 'research', your not reading what i said properly. In pvp you can sustain perfectly with 600~ on most builds and therefore when using heavy you can go thief to offset the crit loss of the passives, so you don't lose nay crit chance at all.
3. A tank does not need damage, it's a tank it's entire purpose is to take agro and take dmg in pve and in pvp a tank should have to give up something and currently it doesn't it has it all, burst, sustain, armor, hp, healing.
Saying S&B should should receive damage buffs it like saying dual daggers should receive defensive buffs in the form of 5 armor passive and reduced damage and block costs.
In Pve tanks don't need to do damage.
In pvp they already do enough which you'd know if you actually played pvp enough.
1. 155/~3000 is about the top 20%. If that's low- then I guess no one graduates college with a 3.0 average.
2. Where in the hell do you get the idea that people can sustain with 600 regen on builds in pvp???
3. A tank HAS to do some damage- otherwise it would get completely ignored in PVP. I don't know why you can't grasp that concept.
Saying a S&B should get a damage buff is the same as saying that a ice destro staff should get a defensive buff. ::ahem:: What now?
In PVE tanks should be able to do damage. As a matter of fact- one of the main tanking sets, Alkosh, does damage to enemies while debuffing them. So, maybe, I dunno... if you actually PVEed, you know that.
In PVP, a tank is expected to do damage, too. I know that.. because I PVP, too.
1. The first 2000 won't have higher than 10k ap usually, 200-500 play but barely, it's only usually in the top 200 that people actually play and even then it's still easily possible to not play a campaign for 29 days and get into the top 200 on the last day or two before it ends.
2. Where do i get the idea? What idea? it's true. I can sustain perfectly fine using 5x, fury, 5x viper, msa weps with 600 regen. It's not an idea it's a fact.
3. Tanks in pvp do the same if not more damage than medium or light users imply because most heavy builds don't have to build for regen because of the sustain they get from heavy works so well with class skills or passive. More specifically classes that can turn 1 resource into another for sustain.
I can handle the concept of tanks needing to do damage to not be ignored, but they already do damage just perfectly, infact they already do too much as 'tanks'. Why do they need to have damage added to it. This tank meta is already bad enough.
The ice staff change was simple, s&b for stam tanks, ice for magicka tanks. Not comparable to DPS type weapons getting blocking buffs or flat armor values.
In PVE tanks can do damage, they shouldn't be built to do damage because main purpose is to tank. They do not need a dps buff at all, this will just unnecessarily increase the power creep. I've never heard of a pve tank complain about them having a lack of dps. In regards to alkosh yes it does damage but you don't wear it for the damage you wear it FOR the debuff. Because that is what pve tanks are mean't to do, keep agro, tank, debuff the enemy and buff their allies.
1. I'll agree with you 100% if you work for zenimax and you can pull those numbers up on a chart. Otherwise, you're pulling them from your @$$ to try to impress people with some fake statistics. I should know. 98.7% of people that use this forum would agree that 1,302 people who post just make up numbers 12.7% are statistically incompetent while 900-1500 rely on numbers to prove inaccurate "factual" posts that use fake values. (you see what I did there?)
2. Your quote "...5x, fury, 5x viper, msa weps with 600 regen" is the epitome of this discussion about heavy armored tanks doing damage... and you DISAGREE with it?!?! Unless you don't actually run with 5 fury, 5 viper, and msa weapons with 600 regen... then, you're completely bullsh*tting the fact that 600 regen is enough to sustain. Which is it, bud? Either you actually run with that gear and you agree that tanks should be able to do damage... or you don't actually run with that gear and you don't realize that 600 regen isn't enough for sustainability.
3. You also should realize that while PVP tanks wear heavy armor as their primary set with DPS-oriented secondary sets (jewelry sword and board)- light/medium armored players can wear DPS sets as their primary gear with defensive (usually heavy armor) sets as their secondary gear (jewelry and weapons)? They CHOOSE NOT TO. Damage dealers CAN have more suriviability to keep them alive against tanks and other damage dealers... but they want to stack damage dealing sets with other damage dealing sets. And, when it comes to classes, most classes have defensive skills that increase their resistances. How is that different from class abilities that return resources? Everyone's got it. Some people choose not to use it.
And for PVP any heavy armor build that focuses on regen is crap. You get enough ressources from constitution passive.
S&B already has a damage boost and that has to be enough if they made heavy armor/ S&B better it was the last time that someone played with heavy or light armor.0 -
Yes- that's an awesome idea!This is a cool idea, and would help players who want to play how they want, but the passives you proposed are a little overpowered. I would suggest:
Mace: Chance to reduce enemy's Physical and Spell resistance for x seconds. (not sure what the values should be yet)
Axe: Chance to make the enemy bleed and reduce damage dealt for x seconds. (Again, not sure what the values should be. Could make it too OP with high values)
Dagger: Chance to increase all nearby allies' Weapon and Spell critical for 10 seconds
Sword: Increase damage done by 2.5%.Edited by Spaghettiknight on January 12, 2017 11:29AM0 -
Wolfchild07✭✭✭✭✭No- I like battlefield mobilityAs someone that loves heavy armour, I gotta say that if you wear more than 1 piece of heavy (for the sake of undaunted passive) you should deal 30% less damage. No matter if it's 2 pieces or all 7, they need to implement something like this. You get the sustain from heavy armour, fair enough, but you should not get damage bonuses at all.0
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Yes- that's an awesome idea!Wolfchild07 wrote: »As someone that loves heavy armour, I gotta say that if you wear more than 1 piece of heavy (for the sake of undaunted passive) you should deal 30% less damage. No matter if it's 2 pieces or all 7, they need to implement something like this. You get the sustain from heavy armour, fair enough, but you should not get damage bonuses at all.
If you wear heavy you miss out on a lot as well. You won't get the 5 pieces passives from the other armor types if you wear a lot of heavy, and if you're going 5-1-1, 5-2, or 6-1 you're not getting much cost reduction or regen, and you're certainly not getting the critical and penetration passives.Edited by Spaghettiknight on January 12, 2017 11:58AM0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Spaghettiknight wrote: »Wolfchild07 wrote: »As someone that loves heavy armour, I gotta say that if you wear more than 1 piece of heavy (for the sake of undaunted passive) you should deal 30% less damage. No matter if it's 2 pieces or all 7, they need to implement something like this. You get the sustain from heavy armour, fair enough, but you should not get damage bonuses at all.
If you wear heavy you miss out on a lot as well. You won't get the 5 pieces passives from the other armor types if you wear a lot of heavy, and if you're going 5-1-1, 5-2, or 6-1 you're not getting much cost reduction or regen, and you're certainly not getting the critical and penetration passives.
No you don't miss out a lot you get 200 wp/spelldmg from wrath. You have extremely good sustain with constitution/ rapid mending, your healing received is increased, your max health is increased. You can use max stat bufffood+ wep dmg glyphs + 3 dmg setd and don't worry about regen sustain or survivability.
With either light or medium you have to give up either damage regen or survivability to increase another stat while heavy gives you everything and more0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No- I like battlefield mobilityIt already has a damage passive. Granted, doesn't help magica, but sword and board is really strong already.
Plus I like the fact I can use anything when using sword and board. Farming/buying sets is a lot better.
Why do you say it doesn't help magicka? Wrath passive gives both weapon/spell damage.0 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭@susmitdsSnB is supposed to be a tanking weapon.
You realize that your own statement says "...weapon", right? Tanks have a shield... and they have a weapon. They are supposed to do a little damage, too, bud. I didn't want to make the abilities OP- so I made them roughly half of what actual DPS abilities do.
Besides- tanking characters are for both PVE and PVP. The PVE groups would enjoy the extra DPS (on top of all the debuffs, aggro, and buffs) to help burn down the boss faster. The PVP groups would benefit from a tank that draws aggro and can help *just slightly* with bringing down the enemies.
Get a battle tank if you want more damage from your tank or a buffing tank.
I have yet to plan end game but my prior MMO experience is that with the right group make up and players properly buffing the group and debuffing or CC enemies it makes content easier, no extra damage needed from a weapon.
A battle tank would have 1 bar set for tanking and the other set for mostly magika based damage. Again, this would probably reduce the buffing a tank does, meaning less DPS by the DPS and having a buff is usually better than the damage a tank could provide.
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Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes- that's an awesome idea!
The tanks are wearing alkosh for the armor reduce it provides for the group. No one uses alkosh for its damage. Even if it dealt 5k damage to you the tanks would still run it.
And for PVP any heavy armor build that focuses on regen is crap. You get enough ressources from constitution passive.
S&B already has a damage boost and that has to be enough if they made heavy armor/ S&B better it was the last time that someone played with heavy or light armor.[/quote]
How many heavy armor builds in PVP (besides maybe black rose) can you name that have only 600 recovery for their main resource?Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
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Savos Saren0