Azura's Star EU nearly free of lag for 6+ months, now it's back in force....

runningtings · January 2017

As regards people running about in AOE Choo Choo groups, is it not just because they aren't good enough to play solo?

kuro-dono · January 2017

solo doesnt bring you as many kill per hour than aoe choo choo + you get more of those silly kills where ppl run towards you, then suddenly they start run away, but they still die due to multiple aoe hitting them.

kuro-dono · January 2017

is there anything fun in... heavy attack + skill + skill + skill + set skill + set skill kills? you just left mouse click, hold, then let go and watch when someone dies.so boring.

kuro-dono · January 2017

oh i forgot to mention, in gank kills, the victim had no chance to really react. while in thoe aoe choo choo you get the emotion sensation how you realize oh lol, that donkey is attacking you but oh the next moment he is actually running away, and still dies.

kuro-dono · January 2017

but to be totally honest, gank kills, the people who ganked has highest rage rate what lots of ppl enjoy. same when you in call of duties or battlefields where you come from behind and knife the guy. those type of guys by near 90% rate are the ones who whine and rage at you, so in one sense... ganking is more rewarding for the being ganked person, and for that factor alone, gankers enjoy it. but overall emotions, they lose to the aoe choo choo hobos.

so....

EMOTIONS>>>

MORE EMOTIONS> GANKED PEOPLE DUE TO, LOOK THAT SUPER E PEEN HERO JUST GANKED ME WITH JUST 2 CLICKS, AND I HAD NO WAY TO AVOID DEATH, HE IS SHITE, HE IS TRASH HE IS EXPLOITER/HAXOR *** WHO DESERVES TO DIE IN REAL LIFE.

while....

aoe choo choo> oh man, those are all botters, but i cant stop myself from chasing them into towers and wiping into their multiple aoes. yes they must be botters or whatever. >>> see? way less emotions from being aoe choo choo:ed that ganked.

kuro-dono · January 2017

btw, when i wrote these facts, i have had about 4 pint of ale + one super stronk II level ale IPA, so i might sound bit drunk, but overall my statements are close to be the truth of experiencing those annoying situations what most casuals/n00bs/whatever experience that make it life ruining experience in cyrodiil.

Kas · January 2017

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Tbf. I've played in Azura since 4(?) months now and I rarely experienced lag. But then, population was never locked on all 3 factions anyway.

Now it's always(mostly) locked for all3 factions on primetime. More people => more lag.

and THIS is 95% of what's really up. Sure there wouldn't be a lag if so many reds didn't stack and even if ZS or whoever would die quicker to those blobs and/or not actively try to lure them to one place. But what really changed are the numbers and ZOS' game that finally works well if campaigns are at most 90% full. If you go beyond that, ESO just doesn't really work.

kuro-dono · January 2017

azura was nice campaign when just maybe 10 ppl were farming ap. now its bad because we got about 30-40 ppl farming ap.

kuro-dono · January 2017

best thing for azura> no ap from kills, just keep captures. that would help lot. no extra ap from amount of kills just certain maybe 10k ap per capture. ofc this gets abused since human.. we are trash, we abuse where we can.

MLRPZ · January 2017

@kuro-dono your alcohol consomation is starting to worry me :'(

kuro-dono · January 2017

but ilove my beer, eso is not anymore satisfying my needs, too many trash human beings making it too uncomfortable.

kuro-dono · January 2017

OH ***, zerg squad member trickered, RUN!

Wollust · January 2017

runningtings wrote: »

As regards people running about in AOE Choo Choo groups, is it not just because they aren't good enough to play solo?

I'm pretty confident in my solo capabilities though

kuro-dono wrote: »

btw, when i wrote these facts, i have had about 4 pint of ale + one super stronk II level ale IPA, so i might sound bit drunk, but overall my statements are close to be the truth of experiencing those annoying situations what most casuals/n00bs/whatever experience that make it life ruining experience in cyrodiil.

No wonder you can deal with those pugs. The alcohol consumption surely helps.

Bashev · January 2017

Laggy again, not bad as TF but still bad. The situation now is: AD squad Farm DC and EP and prevent them fighting each other. Brave full raid of EP is farming at Faragyl. The organized DC and EP groups just dont want to have a descent fight against the AD squad and took the easy way to farm PUGs. @ZOS_BrianWheeler is this the game that you want? Alliance PvP is pointless ant the best entertainment is farming AP? I really hope that the few PvP oriented MMO games which are supposed to come in 2018 are not postponed.

kuro-dono · January 2017

just remove ap from kills and ohh how things would change quite lot.

kuro-dono · January 2017

then you would see whole map burn

Decado · January 2017

They are doing *** all but sitting in bleakers watching the DC and EP kill each other before killing a few and going back inside, just go around bleakers and ignore them job done

kuro-dono · January 2017

or, whole map will be red/yellow/blue from early hours until late afternoon dominated by emperor team, who then log off to allow enemies to capture things back,t hen when there is something to capture they come back, and wipe the enemies, then when map sorted, they log off again.

Enslaved · January 2017

runningtings wrote: »

As regards people running about in AOE Choo Choo groups, is it not just because they aren't good enough to play solo?

I would not completely agree with this. Some trains have ppl that are at least capable of surviving 1vx, if not wining in these situations aswell. Then they pack few more passengers that can heal and obey commands, and that is what makes them dangerous. On the other hand, there are some pretty weak "organized" zergs, that can't hold their ground for more than few minutes.

CoachPower · January 2017

Lol.. It's cute how people blame Zerg Squad for the lag (just don't go to them ffs) when in actual fact it's the huge EP blob causing it

Arthg · January 2017

Bashev wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler is this the game that you want? Alliance PvP is pointless ant the best entertainment is farming AP? I really hope that the few PvP oriented MMO games which are supposed to come in 2018 are not postponed.

Feel free to give the names of those games: as it is, Azura PC EU is occasional mild fun off peak-hours, utterly boring and pathetic on prime time.

kkravaritieb17_ESO · January 2017

CoachPower wrote: »

Lol.. It's cute how people blame Zerg Squad for the lag (just don't go to them ffs) when in actual fact it's the huge EP blob causing it

Don't you know? We are causing the lag even when we are not there...

Decado · January 2017

CoachPower wrote: »

Lol.. It's cute how people blame Zerg Squad for the lag (just don't go to them ffs) when in actual fact it's the huge EP blob causing it

Sometimes it's not possible to ignore such guilds (not just ZS) yesterday on trueflame UF decided to get in the middle of a huge red/blue fight at warden over a red scroll, the fight was already massive and kinda laggy and then they joined and spammed the usual nonsense not trying to take the keep or scroll just running around inside the keep destro ulti and prox spamming people, when the guilds do that you can avoid the group
As they are already in you keeps and between a seperate fight.

Blanket avoidance only
Works when they *** off to an outpost or open field somewhere placing themselves right where the biggest fight is means you can't always ignore them

Etaniel · January 2017

kuro-dono wrote: »

i seriously would love to see eso pvp game turn into> n00bs only server and then pros only server. from n00b server you would be able to upgrade to pro server and wise versa.

Yesterday again got reminded about this, had new pugie join love raid. he said he disliked eso pvp alot since no matter what he does he either get instant gank bursted to death or aoe choo choo run over him. with love raid with starting numbers of 14 or 15 what we had at the beginning allowed him to actually see combat, he learned pretty fast to follow crown aswell and he understood where most of the guild raid heals and negates are. After that he slowly was able to contribute for fights too. Good part with love raid is that only few of my have aoe setup going on, while rest of them are more of typical ganker builts or tankys kind of. so that meant, when we met enemy raids, it was not over in flash. it took while. so the combats allowed ppl to have fun pvp:ing. At the end when i went to sleep he was very happy and delighted that he was allowed to join non pro raid and actually experience at somewhat awesome level action, sieging, wiping raids, wiping into raids and so on.

i enjoy zero when there is pros and these super gankers around. When zone whines that they getting farmed somewhere, i just tell mah bois> "ok folks! we go help those cute zone pugies at bleakers, or aleswell mine side, since nobody is reaching last emperor keep due to group of gankers. WE GIVE THEM HELL FOR ABUSING DAGGERFALL COVENANT CUTIES!

KisoValley wrote: »

What did I just read ^

His comment is far from being stupid though.

Our pvp community has been dwindling for a long while, to the point that we now only have 2 active campaigns, when we had 4 or 5 playable ones 6 months ago.
As an experienced player, I'm already extremely frustrated with my pvp experience these, I can barely play at all because when i come home from work the only active campaign is unplayable unless I join a zerg.
Either the performance is ok and you get zerged anyways because people in this game have zero moral codes nor sense of honour, or the performance is terrible and you are forced into zerging.

Oh and yes, organized groups and large amouts of people are less impacted by lag >> taking multiple hits under lag has a tendency to desync your ressources, and have a sort of silence effect where pressing buttons won't do anything, even with a delay.

Going back to his comment though, I am glad that there are guilds that aren't trying to be pro and accepting new players. Cyrodiil would have been empty a long while ago if it wasn't for them. Taking the new players into large raids and leading them into huge zerg fights isn't the best idea, but it's better than leaving them to die alone and quitting pvp altogether I suppose.

Now to the lag topic.... I'd like to remind some of one of the first time people started blaming others for the lag was Shido's SWAT group back in the days. We had huge zerg battles that were moderately laggy, and when they joined in with their coordinated 24 man group and the lag would triple. It's always been coordinated bomb groups mixed with large zergs that cause humongous lag. Large zergs alone aren't that bad when they don't stack.

Stacked, stationnary fights are the problem moreso than pure numbers. A 15 man bomb train vs another 15 bomb train will have more effect on the server than two 30 man uncoordinated zergs going at each other with a mix of aoe and single target.

There is a point where numbers are so overwhelming that it lags no matter what, yes. But when does that happen? What allows them the time and opportunity to stack like that? Usually a bomb group that refuses to die and keeps farming them for 20+ min and forcing them to bring more people.

Sad to say, but Zerg squad are too good for the rest of the pleb ^^

kuro-dono · January 2017

Man i love ya.

etaniel says the truth as well as he can with plenty of diplomacy. i am too damn honest, my mouth spits the venom out, no matter how it hurts, thats why i get loads of ***.

aoe organized choo choo problem is divined into 2 problems> one> stacked multiple abilities per person + damage/heals. then, their playstyle, gets the attension of trash people, and the more trash people die, the more vigilantry they try to keep get that raid wiped. in many situations, if trash absotutely has no chance to win ever, the fights gets more and more people in, then the lagg starts hit even more.

I MEAN. when 2-24 people with aoes going pew pew> you first start with the offensive abilities and sets. how many targets they hit? there is in most cases npc:s involved aswell + they respawn. then the repeated heals/ultimates. all those stack. in many cases, the casual zergs get blamed because... numbers? what skills they do when they keep dying like flies? yeah right. one ability, dead,. while that aoe choo choo keeps going, continuous spamming, they dont run out of mana/stamina since what? they are pros, they know how to make best of their abilities and team effort, they can spam all that shite until end of the world unless some people with brain power comes. sadly, most ppl who could do not bother, they prefer to farm other people.

i bet in casual warfare vs pros> 60 man population of n00bs, spam about 1000 ability absolutely max per minute while organized raid produces 100 ability usage per 10 second. and usual size of pros is something between 4 to 12 while certain guilds with their aoe choo choos seems to run over 24 people.

the difference is quite... HUGE?

i have had huge keep battles with near zero lagg because the fight only consisted of sieges to produce aoe effects + very few people using aoes.

then suddenly, the game and fps starts to stutter because of what? ah yeah, them have arrived.

For this, i would seriously propose scientific test. have 2 servers. 1 where only organized raids play, and one where casuals play.

zenimax should know it on pc eu, who are the organized, just tag those people, and force them on one server, if they dont like to play without n00bs, then... clue one is very obvious what is causing lagg.

for n00bs, we shall see the huge armies clash with each other, 100vs100vs100! ohh the joy! game laggs bit at one keep, if this really happens, but life continues.

I KNOW I KNOW. I AM BIT OF ELITE/PRO/GANKER ANTI PERSON, BUT I LOVE ESO PVP, i just would love to see this happen.

ideally. i would love to see each player get rank> this rank consist of their dps, their kill/death rate, their kite/survival rate.

ideally it would be> 25 kills 1 death , kills target in 1-5 second, can handle 2-5 people without issue. > pro. THIS OFC, ignoring proc sets.

hows that for my wednesday evening nonsense?

and ofc> true my editing skills> when you progress in eso pvp. if you want to avoid becoming pro... just cool down. start dying. and when you reach either rank> n00b, or pro, you stick with that for minimum of 1 month.

EDIT ROUND 2> ofc. i know. pros dont wanna fight each other, fights take too long, too many heals, too many super builds, but eh? Thats not pugs fault.

I remember night where love raid was fighting equally stronk ebon raid, fight lasted about 15 min or so near our keep> dragonclaw, lol, i was physicly tired after all that effort we did to beat the enemy raid, bashing, stopping them from rezzing, destroying their camps, stopping their sieges from sieging. just told my folks to wait bit while i had to recover my hands which were so damn sore from all that clicking.

MLRPZ · January 2017

And then, yesterday we had some 14v14-ish fights against Epic Fail + blue zerg with decent ping on tf primetime

Valencer · January 2017

Back when azura's just went no-CP there were basically no AoE trains in there anymore because most guilds didnt want to play in a no-CP campaign. There were mostly just hordes of pugs in there. AD was pop locked most of the day and DC/EP were on low/med until prime time started (when they usually went to high, sometimes locked)

And guess what, it lagged like crazy when the whole campaign's population was converging to only 1 or 2 places on the map. Because that's exactly what it is... it has everything to do with how spread out the fighting is and very little to do with AoE trains any guilds might be running at that moment.

I get it, fighting AoE trains sucks when youre not a part of one. But blaming the lag on them instead of the fact ZOS is basically dumbing down Cyrodiil to the point where the main campaigns are basically just faction stack vs faction stack is just scapegoating.

I can go to trueflame and when it's lagging so badly I can barely use my abilities there's usually only 1 or 2 giant fighting crosses on the map and nothing else. THAT is the real issue.

KisoValley · January 2017

MLRPZ wrote: »

And then, yesterday we had some 14v14-ish fights against Epic Fail + blue zerg with decent ping on tf primetime

Must be lying, ping surely spiked when ZS decided to go pvp???

Master_Kas · January 2017

Etaniel wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

i seriously would love to see eso pvp game turn into> n00bs only server and then pros only server. from n00b server you would be able to upgrade to pro server and wise versa.

Yesterday again got reminded about this, had new pugie join love raid. he said he disliked eso pvp alot since no matter what he does he either get instant gank bursted to death or aoe choo choo run over him. with love raid with starting numbers of 14 or 15 what we had at the beginning allowed him to actually see combat, he learned pretty fast to follow crown aswell and he understood where most of the guild raid heals and negates are. After that he slowly was able to contribute for fights too. Good part with love raid is that only few of my have aoe setup going on, while rest of them are more of typical ganker builts or tankys kind of. so that meant, when we met enemy raids, it was not over in flash. it took while. so the combats allowed ppl to have fun pvp:ing. At the end when i went to sleep he was very happy and delighted that he was allowed to join non pro raid and actually experience at somewhat awesome level action, sieging, wiping raids, wiping into raids and so on.

i enjoy zero when there is pros and these super gankers around. When zone whines that they getting farmed somewhere, i just tell mah bois> "ok folks! we go help those cute zone pugies at bleakers, or aleswell mine side, since nobody is reaching last emperor keep due to group of gankers. WE GIVE THEM HELL FOR ABUSING DAGGERFALL COVENANT CUTIES!

KisoValley wrote: »

What did I just read ^

His comment is far from being stupid though.

Our pvp community has been dwindling for a long while, to the point that we now only have 2 active campaigns, when we had 4 or 5 playable ones 6 months ago.
As an experienced player, I'm already extremely frustrated with my pvp experience these, I can barely play at all because when i come home from work the only active campaign is unplayable unless I join a zerg.
Either the performance is ok and you get zerged anyways because people in this game have zero moral codes nor sense of honour, or the performance is terrible and you are forced into zerging.

Oh and yes, organized groups and large amouts of people are less impacted by lag >> taking multiple hits under lag has a tendency to desync your ressources, and have a sort of silence effect where pressing buttons won't do anything, even with a delay.

Going back to his comment though, I am glad that there are guilds that aren't trying to be pro and accepting new players. Cyrodiil would have been empty a long while ago if it wasn't for them. Taking the new players into large raids and leading them into huge zerg fights isn't the best idea, but it's better than leaving them to die alone and quitting pvp altogether I suppose.

Now to the lag topic.... I'd like to remind some of one of the first time people started blaming others for the lag was Shido's SWAT group back in the days. We had huge zerg battles that were moderately laggy, and when they joined in with their coordinated 24 man group and the lag would triple. It's always been coordinated bomb groups mixed with large zergs that cause humongous lag. Large zergs alone aren't that bad when they don't stack.

Stacked, stationnary fights are the problem moreso than pure numbers. A 15 man bomb train vs another 15 bomb train will have more effect on the server than two 30 man uncoordinated zergs going at each other with a mix of aoe and single target.

There is a point where numbers are so overwhelming that it lags no matter what, yes. But when does that happen? What allows them the time and opportunity to stack like that? Usually a bomb group that refuses to die and keeps farming them for 20+ min and forcing them to bring more people.

Sad to say, but Zerg squad are too good for the rest of the pleb ^^

I disagree with the bombtrain vs bombtrain argument.

Yesterday we had several fights with epic fail during primetime in TF with basicly no lag. Also every single GvG that has happened have basicly been lag-free.

Also remember a while ago when I played on EP and NL ran 23-24 man groups on the old trueflame which was a blue buff camp, we had fights with other big guilds there (like Grahams guild, Dolche De Könings) without lag aswell. Numbers was around 20-24 vs 20-24 also. No lag.

The lag happens mostly as @Valencer says, when factionstack starts to happen , with both the huge factionzergs AND bombgroups combined (and ofc all solo players who happen to run next to their faction

)

Etaniel · January 2017

Valencer wrote: »

Back when azura's just went no-CP there were basically no AoE in there anymore because most guilds didnt want to play in a no-CP campaign. There were mostly just hordes of pugs in there. AD was pop locked most of the day and DC/EP were on low/med until prime time started (when they usually went to high, sometimes locked)

And guess what, it lagged like crazy when the whole campaign's population was converging to only 1 or 2 places on the map. Because that's exactly what it is... it has everything to do with how spread out the fighting is and very little to do with AoE trains any guilds might be running at that moment.

I get it, fighting AoE trains sucks when youre not a part of one. But blaming the lag on them instead of the fact ZOS is basically dumbing down Cyrodiil to the point where the main campaigns are basically just faction stack vs faction stack is just scapegoating.

I can go to trueflame and when it's lagging so badly I can barely use my abilities there's usually only 1 or 2 giant fighting crosses on the map and nothing else. THAT is the real issue.

First, you say campaigns lag when their pops converge into one spot. True. What do bomb trains do? Make them converge even more. Precisely because bomb trains pride themselves (and rightely so may i add) into killing foes that vastly outnumber them. The better the group, the more pugs needed swarming around to be satisfied. ZS being an excellent bomb group, when they want real challenge they feed on huge swarms.

When there is a massive keep siege, and a bit of lag to go with it, when does the lag really break out? when the inner is breached and everyone stacks inside. Well a bomb squad on a locked campaign is pretty much a moving inner breach.

Not 100% of the time of course, no one is saying that they are purposefuly causing lag, or even always in the middle of huge fights. I know most ZS members are also small scalers and suffer from this as much as any one else. It's just that it seems everyone here is blaming the other side and never does anyone stop to think, well, maybe our behaviour is adding to it and we should stop for a second.

Oh and, don't tell me fighting AoE trains suck because i can't join one.... I've been in some in the past, lead some, and can still today count on a friendlist that would gladly join me in Cyro if I asked them. The thing is that I don't enjoy it, and I even get called a hypocrit for doing it lol (seeing as i'm always criticising large groups, I kinda deserve that ^^)