Is the game being designed to force people to use the Crown Store?

Danikat · January 2017

No.

I think a lot of people are in for a nasty surprise when the next update is released.

A lot of people seem to be assuming that because the gold cost of housing is high the crown price is going to be higher than people want to spend, but still possible for everyone to afford (in spite of the fact that everyone is a huge group of people with a huge range of economic circumstances) and obviously the whole point is to make spending real money look like the only option.

I'd love to be proven wrong but I'm fully expecting the crown prices to look at least as crazy as the gold price, probably even more so. I think once the update is released and we have all the information the gold price is going to suddenly look a lot more reasonable and we'll see a switch to people complaining the whole thing is a scam to drain gold from the economy.

Gorgoneus · January 2017

Yes.

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Gorgoneus wrote: »

Akatsukisan wrote: »

No, nobody is being "forced to buy" anything... the crown store is literally a alternative option to buy items ingame via IRL cash... it's not forced it's not p2p nor is it pay to win... the guy next to me has a chance of winning as much as I do.

Forced to buy would mean that progression in the game would be impossible to accomplish unless you buy microtransactions... Which is totally invalid in ESO: Onlines case...

Now is buying crowns a faster way of obtaining certain things? surely yes... that's why it's there to speed up the process of certain things but everything you can get in the crowns store you can get without spending a cent truly.. You're not going be a super warrior with OP armor and every single item in a matter of hours in a MMORPG like ESO... It takes days maybe weeks or months at certain accomplishments but that's what keeps certain players coming, the grind.

That's my take on all of this though.

Really? Tell my how to buy craft bag or at least any pet or mount other then horse without crowns? I knew only about few basic horses and only 1 pet - dwemer spider you can take by ingame actions.

The craft bag, as well as the more snazzy mounts and pets make up a good portion of Zeni's revenue. The game does not require a sub, and so of course there are some things that are plainly locked behind a pay wall, while other things are not. You certainly don't "need" the more attractive mounts or pets, since they aren't any more efficient than default ones, so Zeni simply charges you if you really do want something that looks better.

Any F2P game hase a same system, why I bought the game client then? Because not the visual only stuff is blocked.

starkerealm · January 2017

No.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Features added such as the TG assistant...

Honest question, does anyone use the mobile fence, except as a cosmetic pet? I mean, really? I can see a rare circumstance where you'd want to fence some stuff but can't go anywhere because a guard's blocking your path. But enough to justify taking a 35% hit to your income?

jedtb16_ESO · January 2017

No.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Yes and anyone saying no either doesn't buy dlc or doesn't sub.

If you sub, you're buying crowns so you should have selected yes

Only those who don't sub and who only play the base game can say no technically.

rubbish.

i have subbed since the start.... not because i was 'forced*' to but because i chose to.

*for an in context definition of 'forced' see my post above.

@jedtb16_ESO

You have to sub or you have to buy crowns without a sub to access the dlc.

Both are forcing you to buy crowns because ESO plus comes with crowns and dlc without a sub requires crowns.

It's that simple. Ppl are ignoring the fact that unless you only play the vanilla game you're buying crowns.

Period.

jeebus.....

it is a choice i am not forced/coerced into doing it.

this is a form of entertainment i chose

your argument is like saying you are forced to cook bacon before you eat it.

get a grip.

@jedtb16_ESO
No it's not a choice.
Please don't suggest that I need to get a grip on anything.

Literally the only way to play outside of the vanilla game is to buy crowns.

Read the full OP and not just the question. The context of the OP includes the whole game not just certain cosmetic or convenience items.

That's the poll so the answer is yes IF you play more than the vanilla game.

-crafting bag
-dlc
-etc

good grief...

you do need to get a grip..... you are saying that choosing to play the game is not a choice???

i do not have to buy crowns to do anything.

do you even play the game?

@jedtb16_ESO

Context:
The OP writes that "as they add features"
And then they write the question.

So the answer is 100% yes crowns are required and it's not a choice or a feeling because in order to access the features in the base game such as

-crafting bag
A sub is required. Subscribing is by default buying crowns.

Features added such as the TG assistant or motif from dlc trials as well as crafting stations located in dlc areas are new features.

That requires either ESO plus or purchasing the dlc.

So my comments to the poll are specifying that
IF anyone accesses DlC they are buying crowns

If you scroll and read some of the comments on page 1 and 2 (if you'd like to) there are specific comments that remark that they sub but that they aren't forced to buy crowns.

True.
But the reason they are subbing is to access something which is gated therefore because subscribing results in the purchase of crowns, my comment remarks that those who sub and say they are paying for a sub and not crowns, I'm saying that's inccorect because ESO plus results in crowns regardless of intent.

That leaves only the players who choose to only play the vanilla game that excludes the context of the OP which is asking in terms of added features

Does that better communicate my comments previously?

Let me know if not

no.....

the word used is 'force'

the idea that one is 'forced' to do something is utter nonsense..... and you know it.

you seem to be ignorant.... sorry, scratch that.

you seem to be unaware of the history of this game. i subbed from the start. there was no crown store. sub gave access to the game. then the console nonsense hit so the sub requirement was scrapped. but people who continued to sub were given some bonuses... craft bag, crowns etc. but that is gratis. the cost of the sub did not change. and that is the key point - the price of the sub did not change. in fact, given inflation and exchange rate fluctuations, it has probably decreased in real terms.

i sub because i recognize that this (or any) product requires financial support to continue and grow. it's the same reason i don't steal things from the local shops.

so no .... there is no force or coercion.... it is a matter of choice.

starkerealm · January 2017

No.

Gorgoneus wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Gorgoneus wrote: »

Akatsukisan wrote: »

No, nobody is being "forced to buy" anything... the crown store is literally a alternative option to buy items ingame via IRL cash... it's not forced it's not p2p nor is it pay to win... the guy next to me has a chance of winning as much as I do.

Forced to buy would mean that progression in the game would be impossible to accomplish unless you buy microtransactions... Which is totally invalid in ESO: Onlines case...

Now is buying crowns a faster way of obtaining certain things? surely yes... that's why it's there to speed up the process of certain things but everything you can get in the crowns store you can get without spending a cent truly.. You're not going be a super warrior with OP armor and every single item in a matter of hours in a MMORPG like ESO... It takes days maybe weeks or months at certain accomplishments but that's what keeps certain players coming, the grind.

That's my take on all of this though.

Really? Tell my how to buy craft bag or at least any pet or mount other then horse without crowns? I knew only about few basic horses and only 1 pet - dwemer spider you can take by ingame actions.

The craft bag, as well as the more snazzy mounts and pets make up a good portion of Zeni's revenue. The game does not require a sub, and so of course there are some things that are plainly locked behind a pay wall, while other things are not. You certainly don't "need" the more attractive mounts or pets, since they aren't any more efficient than default ones, so Zeni simply charges you if you really do want something that looks better.

Any F2P game hase a same system, why I bought the game client then? Because not the visual only stuff is blocked.

I think you vastly overestimate how generous most F2P games are with their basic functionality. Unless they've changed it, TOR locks you out of being able to sprint or equip top tier items unless you cough up some cash. Champions Online locks you to weaker class based builds, while subscribers can pick any abilities in the game. I already mentioned Star Trek Online, but that one also locks crafting, and upgrading gear behind a paywall (which you can theoretically bypass with grind currency, by not having a life).

In ESO, you need to be careful not to grab every crafting item you see, or need to sell some of that to other players. Oh, whatsoever will we do?

Gorgoneus · January 2017

Yes.

@jedtb16_ESO
Some regions have a sub price multiple times increased after B2P. ZoS deleted region's indexations or something like this.
So you're not entirely right.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Yes.

starkerealm wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Features added such as the TG assistant...

Honest question, does anyone use the mobile fence, except as a cosmetic pet? I mean, really? I can see a rare circumstance where you'd want to fence some stuff but can't go anywhere because a guard's blocking your path. But enough to justify taking a 35% hit to your income?

@starkerealm

That's adding a different context to the discussion. The poll and the OP isn't in terms of what's desired for use. Regardless of any desires, anything outside of the vanilla game excluding the base game updates requires a sub or purchase of crowns or both:

-The to access the assistants only way is some form that results in crowns.

-Same as a crafting bag (sub only)

-Same for crafting stations in dlc

That's not optional.
What's optional is only to play the vanilla game excluding the sub required base game updates but the OP is asking specific on "added features" which includes all the above

jedtb16_ESO · January 2017

No.

Gorgoneus wrote: »

@jedtb16_ESO
Some regions have a sub price multiple times increased after B2P. ZoS deleted region's indexations or something like this.
So you're not entirely right.

sorry, i am not sure i understand you.

could you explain please.

i am in the uk and can only speak of my experience here.

ixie · January 2017

Yes.

Since the prices of new items are steadily rising the subscribers should get more crowns per month.

summitxho · January 2017

No.

The only way the game designers have encouraged the use of crown store is through DLC, but its certainly not forced. I could simply buy the gold edition of ESO with dollars and have all DLC. There is no force here, simply encouragement, and those are 2 very different animals.

Question is however, why did they do that? Was it to encourage players to buy crowns and hopefully entice them into making other crown purchases? Perhaps, but its not the only answer. Lets say the DLC was available in dollars on steam, PS store etc. Would they not have to pay a percentage to the selling site for listing the item? Would it make the DLC cost more money? I honestly do not know, I think there are probably more complicated answers than ZOS trying to scam us.

Gorgoneus · January 2017

Yes.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Gorgoneus wrote: »

@jedtb16_ESO
Some regions have a sub price multiple times increased after B2P. ZoS deleted region's indexations or something like this.
So you're not entirely right.

sorry, i am not sure i understand you.

could you explain please.

i am in the uk and can only speak of my experience here.

Subscription price (when game was P2P) was different for different countries depend of it's prosperity I guess. Buy after game go B2P all prices was fixed on same prices, so I know countries with sub price atleast doubled. Because "its fair". Or prevent evil sectants to change their adresses to get discount (But Steam game store hase no this problem at all).

starkerealm · January 2017

No.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

That's adding a different context to the discussion. The poll and the OP isn't in terms of what's desired for use.

Except, they kind of are. The question is if the game is "forcing" people to cough up cash. If the example given is an item with no practical value, the idea that it's a compulsory purchase becomes a lot shakier.

Now, this isn't the only thing in discussion, and stuff like the crafting bag have far more utility. But, in this case? Yeah, it's a relevant question.

Just like how pets and mounts aren't required purchases. You need a mount, but aside from aesthetic concerns, they're all interchangeable, including the 10k gold option.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Yes.

starkerealm wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

That's adding a different context to the discussion. The poll and the OP isn't in terms of what's desired for use.

Except, they kind of are. The question is if the game is "forcing" people to cough up cash. If the example given is an item with no practical value, the idea that it's a compulsory purchase becomes a lot shakier.

Now, this isn't the only thing in discussion, and stuff like the crafting bag have far more utility. But, in this case? Yeah, it's a relevant question.

Just like how pets and mounts aren't required purchases. You need a mount, but aside from aesthetic concerns, they're all interchangeable, including the 10k gold option.

@starkerealm
No that's not what's written. But if that's what your comments are in context to, it is best to exclude all of my comments because mine are based on the OP and comments from others based on the OP.

You're adding a different context and other ideas not meantioned.

It's added features.

Features aren't cosmetic things like mounts, costumes etc.

Features are literally
-crafting bag
-assistants
-features locked by dlc

starkerealm · January 2017

No.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@starkerealm
No that's not what's written. But if that's what your comments are in context to, it is best to exclude all of my comments because mine are based on the OP and comments from others based on the OP.

You're adding a different context and other ideas not meantioned.

It's added features.

Features aren't cosmetic things like mounts, costumes etc.

Features are literally
-crafting bag
-assistants
-features locked by dlc

Actually, I was mistaking @Gorgoneus for the OP. And then asking a semi-related, "is the TG assistant even worth using?" Because they'd brought it up as an example. Which is relevant to the general, "compelled to cough up cash," argument.

Reykice · January 2017

Yes.

starkerealm wrote: »

Gorgoneus wrote: »

Akatsukisan wrote: »

No, nobody is being "forced to buy" anything... the crown store is literally a alternative option to buy items ingame via IRL cash... it's not forced it's not p2p nor is it pay to win... the guy next to me has a chance of winning as much as I do.

Forced to buy would mean that progression in the game would be impossible to accomplish unless you buy microtransactions... Which is totally invalid in ESO: Onlines case...

Now is buying crowns a faster way of obtaining certain things? surely yes... that's why it's there to speed up the process of certain things but everything you can get in the crowns store you can get without spending a cent truly.. You're not going be a super warrior with OP armor and every single item in a matter of hours in a MMORPG like ESO... It takes days maybe weeks or months at certain accomplishments but that's what keeps certain players coming, the grind.

That's my take on all of this though.

Really? Tell my how to buy craft bag or at least any pet or mount other then horse without crowns? I knew only about few basic horses and only 1 pet - dwemer spider you can take by ingame actions.

There's no statistical advantage to the crown store mounts.

Here's a counterexample.

Star Trek Online has two modes of play. Space, and ground. Ground combat has you running around with your crew or other players. Space combat has you flying your ship around.

For all intents and purposes, your ship, in space, is your character class. It has its own equipment slots, ability bar, and (in some cases) custom powers.

However, your ship does not level up (with an exception). Every ten levels you replace it with a more powerful one... or you buy C-Store versions of your ships. (Or in some cases, C-Store versions of entirely different ships). These are, flat out, statistically more powerful. They can slot more crew abilities (with some exceptions), and have additional item slots.

Finally, when you hit level 40, you're done. You've unlocked tier 5 ships, which are the most powerful ones available to free players. (Though some tier 5 ships unlock at 50). What also unlocks at 50 are tier 6 ships. Tier 6 ships are substantially more powerful than tier 5, level up with you, and have access to entire classes of abilities that no other ships in the game can access. They have additional item slots, and they unlock special abilities once they've fully leveled up that you can use on any ship.

For an endgame build, you realistically need 5 of these, just to fill out your starship traits slots.

When it comes to leveling, for space content, you effectively stop at level 40. Content keeps going to 60 (and you can do your best to keep up by improving the items equipped to your ship.) But to advance requires you to pay real cash for ships, multiple times.

Finally, there's a bonus. The most powerful tier 6 ships are buried in the lockboxes. So to have the most powerful space builds, you also need to play their gamble boxes, often a lot.

Yes but it did not start like that tho. It changed little by little towards that. That was my whole point, ESO is slowly doing that too, its not that bad YET, but if they are allowed to slowly do this eventually they will.

At launch a subscription was enough. Stuff did not need much grinding because its known gamers in the west do not like grinding that much.

Loot at it now... yes you can get houses in the game but you need to grind so much nobody will do it. Also the subscription doesn`t even buy 10% of what is in the Crown Store and that is if you were subbed from day 1. Not to mention the many things that were limited or removed since the Store was made.

The Store is now directing the content too apparently... while subbing is nice it doesn`t get you that much anymore and the game is moving in the "grind to death or take the easy $$$ option".

starkerealm · January 2017

No.

Reykice wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Gorgoneus wrote: »

Akatsukisan wrote: »

No, nobody is being "forced to buy" anything... the crown store is literally a alternative option to buy items ingame via IRL cash... it's not forced it's not p2p nor is it pay to win... the guy next to me has a chance of winning as much as I do.

Forced to buy would mean that progression in the game would be impossible to accomplish unless you buy microtransactions... Which is totally invalid in ESO: Onlines case...

Now is buying crowns a faster way of obtaining certain things? surely yes... that's why it's there to speed up the process of certain things but everything you can get in the crowns store you can get without spending a cent truly.. You're not going be a super warrior with OP armor and every single item in a matter of hours in a MMORPG like ESO... It takes days maybe weeks or months at certain accomplishments but that's what keeps certain players coming, the grind.

That's my take on all of this though.

Really? Tell my how to buy craft bag or at least any pet or mount other then horse without crowns? I knew only about few basic horses and only 1 pet - dwemer spider you can take by ingame actions.

There's no statistical advantage to the crown store mounts.

Here's a counterexample.

Star Trek Online has two modes of play. Space, and ground. Ground combat has you running around with your crew or other players. Space combat has you flying your ship around.

For all intents and purposes, your ship, in space, is your character class. It has its own equipment slots, ability bar, and (in some cases) custom powers.

However, your ship does not level up (with an exception). Every ten levels you replace it with a more powerful one... or you buy C-Store versions of your ships. (Or in some cases, C-Store versions of entirely different ships). These are, flat out, statistically more powerful. They can slot more crew abilities (with some exceptions), and have additional item slots.

Finally, when you hit level 40, you're done. You've unlocked tier 5 ships, which are the most powerful ones available to free players. (Though some tier 5 ships unlock at 50). What also unlocks at 50 are tier 6 ships. Tier 6 ships are substantially more powerful than tier 5, level up with you, and have access to entire classes of abilities that no other ships in the game can access. They have additional item slots, and they unlock special abilities once they've fully leveled up that you can use on any ship.

For an endgame build, you realistically need 5 of these, just to fill out your starship traits slots.

When it comes to leveling, for space content, you effectively stop at level 40. Content keeps going to 60 (and you can do your best to keep up by improving the items equipped to your ship.) But to advance requires you to pay real cash for ships, multiple times.

Finally, there's a bonus. The most powerful tier 6 ships are buried in the lockboxes. So to have the most powerful space builds, you also need to play their gamble boxes, often a lot.

Yes but it did not start like that tho. It changed little by little towards that. That was my whole point, ESO is slowly doing that too, its not that bad YET, but if they are allowed to slowly do this eventually they will.

At launch a subscription was enough. Stuff did not need much grinding because its known gamers in the west do not like grinding that much.

Loot at it now... yes you can get houses in the game but you need to grind so much nobody will do it. Also the subscription doesn`t even buy 10% of what is in the Crown Store and that is if you were subbed from day 1. Not to mention the many things that were limited or removed since the Store was made.

The Store is now directing the content too apparently... while subbing is nice it doesn`t get you that much anymore and the game is moving in the "grind to death or take the easy $$$ option".

With respect, STO went there pretty fast. The first lockbox ship was in the game before the subscription requirement was dropped, and the transition to real money in the crafting system happened at the same time as the F2P launch. The Tier 5 ships got overhauled at the same time, so that there was already a structure pushing people towards buying them with real money. Once the game went free to play, internal policy was to not fix anything unless it could be monetized.

I don't see that with ESO. I see stuff getting added, but in comparison to actual F2P MMOs, this is pretty inoffensive, even now. Maybe housing costs will turn me around on that, but I doubt it. My biggest gripe is still the gamble boxes, but I'll admit, as these things go, this is one of the least predatory variants of that system I've seen.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Yes.

starkerealm wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@starkerealm
No that's not what's written. But if that's what your comments are in context to, it is best to exclude all of my comments because mine are based on the OP and comments from others based on the OP.

You're adding a different context and other ideas not meantioned.

It's added features.

Features aren't cosmetic things like mounts, costumes etc.

Features are literally
-crafting bag
-assistants
-features locked by dlc

Actually, I was mistaking @Gorgoneus for the OP. And then asking a semi-related, "is the TG assistant even worth using?" Because they'd brought it up as an example. Which is relevant to the general, "compelled to cough up cash," argument.

@starkerealm

The TG assistant is locked behind dlc
It doesn't matter IF the assistant is used or desired.

Literally it can only be accessed IF you sub or buy crowns.

So therefore in terms of the context of this thread and the OP and the person you tagged.

The poll response is YES because you are "forced" to buy crowns or sub to get access to the dlc which contains the added assistant.

BadLuckCharm · January 2017

"Forced".
At what point does "forced" actually become forced, and not just a strong desire?
Will it be essential to have houses in the game? Even just one home? I don't have one, right now. None of us do. Is our gaming gimped for that?

Is a sub forced on us? I've played both ways. While it's quite possible to play without, it's certainly overwhelmingly more comfortable to have a sub. Without a sub, we're very gimped for space, and it does affect the quality of the experience. I for one, don't want to go back. I can accept that being called "forced" (even if by strict definition it isn't). Will it be the same with houses? I haven't been on the test realm, but i'm certain it won't be.

What is happening, though, is that a very desirable "candy" is far easier to obtain through the store than through the game.

Stovahkiin · January 2017

No.

What it comes down to is that this MMO is also a full fledged business. You must have known when you started playing that there would be optional features that Zeni would charge for. ALL MMOs have things like that in one form or another.

If you aren't prepared or capable of paying for those kinds of things then why would you still expect to get them? Zeni allows you to have access to the base game for free forever after you make the initial purchase of the game. If you want more things after that (those things take time and money for Zeni to make) then you have to be prepared to pay for them.

If you can't at least acknowledge that then MMOs clearly aren't for you, and you need to go find a nice, one-time-purchase single player game.

Ourorboros · January 2017

Yes.

SantieClaws wrote: »

Forced no.

But encouraged certainly yes.

The housing system as it stands makes it very difficult for new players to fully participate and decorate their homes to any reasonably desirable standard yes.

The crown store enables a massive shortcut to this by offering houses and all the furniture. The imagination limited only by the wallet yes.

This one she wonders if the system was designed to be so material and time intensive as to make the store seem the preferable option yes?

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Exactly as stated in the bold. This started with turning motifs from books to chapters, then later selling them in crown store. zos wraps many items behind an RNG maze which they create and control, while offering the same item in crown store. True, no one is forced to buy from the crown store (I'll never spend beyond my sub crowns), but for the many players who don't have the time to outwit zos, the crown store is conveniently there. Perhaps OP made a poor choice using the word FORCED,. Would the poll results look different if it reflected the phrase above from our resident happy cat? What bothers me most is the cash grab is so blatant and obvious while at the same time unnecessary. zos is not struggling, it's rolling in dough. How do I know this? No hard facts, since zos doesn't share. However Frior says there are 7 million of us. Most players I encounter have a sub, for the craft bag. Right there is a lot of money. But it's obvious the crown store is doing well. You only have to look around at all the mounts, pets, and costumes that are everywhere. I don't begrudge zos a profit. I do begrudge the extra time they are designing into the game, time I will have to spend if I want to decorate my house mostly because they want me to take the easy out in the crown store.

Iselin · January 2017

Yes.

Stovahkiin wrote: »

What it comes down to is that this MMO is also a full fledged business. You must have known when you started playing that there would be optional features that Zeni would charge for. ALL MMOs have things like that in one form or another.

If you aren't prepared or capable of paying for those kinds of things then why would you still expect to get them? Zeni allows you to have access to the base game for free forever after you make the initial purchase of the game. If you want more things after that (those things take time and money for Zeni to make) then you have to be prepared to pay for them.

If you can't at least acknowledge that then MMOs clearly aren't for you, and you need to go find a nice, one-time-purchase single player game.

Ah that good ole "it's a business" cliche. They are ALL businesses. They have ALL always been businesses. Yet you have a game like FFARR that use the sub model for both PC and console.

And that's just an example. I'm not necessarily saying that subs are better than B2P or F2P simply that different business models are viable ways to monetize an MMO. So saying "it's a business" is not really saying anything about the way that this one is monetized.

Stovahkiin · January 2017

No.

Iselin wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

What it comes down to is that this MMO is also a full fledged business. You must have known when you started playing that there would be optional features that Zeni would charge for. ALL MMOs have things like that in one form or another.

If you aren't prepared or capable of paying for those kinds of things then why would you still expect to get them? Zeni allows you to have access to the base game for free forever after you make the initial purchase of the game. If you want more things after that (those things take time and money for Zeni to make) then you have to be prepared to pay for them.

If you can't at least acknowledge that then MMOs clearly aren't for you, and you need to go find a nice, one-time-purchase single player game.

Ah that good ole "it's a business" cliche. They are ALL businesses. They have ALL always been businesses. Yet you have a game like FFARR that use the sub model for both PC and console.

And that's just an example. I'm not necessarily saying that subs are better than B2P or F2P simply that different business models are viable ways to monetize an MMO. So saying "it's a business" is not really saying anything about the way that this one is monetized.

So, as a good business tactic, Zeni should start giving away even more things for free? There are multiple other MMOs out there that are WAY worse than Zeni in this regard, and yet all of you are crying about how greedy Zeni is. If you hate it with such a passion and it bothers you so much then either; don't participate in it, or leave.

Iselin · January 2017

Yes.

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

What it comes down to is that this MMO is also a full fledged business. You must have known when you started playing that there would be optional features that Zeni would charge for. ALL MMOs have things like that in one form or another.

If you aren't prepared or capable of paying for those kinds of things then why would you still expect to get them? Zeni allows you to have access to the base game for free forever after you make the initial purchase of the game. If you want more things after that (those things take time and money for Zeni to make) then you have to be prepared to pay for them.

If you can't at least acknowledge that then MMOs clearly aren't for you, and you need to go find a nice, one-time-purchase single player game.

Ah that good ole "it's a business" cliche. They are ALL businesses. They have ALL always been businesses. Yet you have a game like FFARR that use the sub model for both PC and console.

And that's just an example. I'm not necessarily saying that subs are better than B2P or F2P simply that different business models are viable ways to monetize an MMO. So saying "it's a business" is not really saying anything about the way that this one is monetized.

So, as a good business tactic, Zeni should start giving away even more things for free? There are multiple other MMOs out there that are WAY worse than Zeni in this regard, and yet all of you are crying about how greedy Zeni is. If you hate it with such a passion and it bothers you so much then either; don't participate in it, or leave.

The only one getting emotional here is you little buddy.

There ARE things worthy of criticism even in the things we like... unless you're a blind zealot, that is.

The drop rate of Aetherial ciphers and dust to name just one that is designed to steer you to the cash shop for example.

kevlarto_ESO · January 2017

No.

Nothing in the crown store you NEED to play the game, you might want some of things but want is not need, the day zos crosses that line, is the day we have to say goodbye.

Stovahkiin · January 2017

No.

Iselin wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

What it comes down to is that this MMO is also a full fledged business. You must have known when you started playing that there would be optional features that Zeni would charge for. ALL MMOs have things like that in one form or another.

If you aren't prepared or capable of paying for those kinds of things then why would you still expect to get them? Zeni allows you to have access to the base game for free forever after you make the initial purchase of the game. If you want more things after that (those things take time and money for Zeni to make) then you have to be prepared to pay for them.

If you can't at least acknowledge that then MMOs clearly aren't for you, and you need to go find a nice, one-time-purchase single player game.

Ah that good ole "it's a business" cliche. They are ALL businesses. They have ALL always been businesses. Yet you have a game like FFARR that use the sub model for both PC and console.

And that's just an example. I'm not necessarily saying that subs are better than B2P or F2P simply that different business models are viable ways to monetize an MMO. So saying "it's a business" is not really saying anything about the way that this one is monetized.

So, as a good business tactic, Zeni should start giving away even more things for free? There are multiple other MMOs out there that are WAY worse than Zeni in this regard, and yet all of you are crying about how greedy Zeni is. If you hate it with such a passion and it bothers you so much then either; don't participate in it, or leave.

The only one getting emotional here is you little buddy.

There ARE things worthy of criticism even in the things we like... unless you're a blind zealot, that is.

The drop rate of Aetherial ciphers and dust to name just one that is designed to steer you to the cash shop for example.

I don't recall ever saying that I think the game is perfect or doesn't have flaws, in fact one of my earlier posts says the opposite in part of it.

Reykice · January 2017

Yes.

Iselin wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

What it comes down to is that this MMO is also a full fledged business. You must have known when you started playing that there would be optional features that Zeni would charge for. ALL MMOs have things like that in one form or another.

If you aren't prepared or capable of paying for those kinds of things then why would you still expect to get them? Zeni allows you to have access to the base game for free forever after you make the initial purchase of the game. If you want more things after that (those things take time and money for Zeni to make) then you have to be prepared to pay for them.

If you can't at least acknowledge that then MMOs clearly aren't for you, and you need to go find a nice, one-time-purchase single player game.

Ah that good ole "it's a business" cliche. They are ALL businesses. They have ALL always been businesses. Yet you have a game like FFARR that use the sub model for both PC and console.

And that's just an example. I'm not necessarily saying that subs are better than B2P or F2P simply that different business models are viable ways to monetize an MMO. So saying "it's a business" is not really saying anything about the way that this one is monetized.

So, as a good business tactic, Zeni should start giving away even more things for free? There are multiple other MMOs out there that are WAY worse than Zeni in this regard, and yet all of you are crying about how greedy Zeni is. If you hate it with such a passion and it bothers you so much then either; don't participate in it, or leave.

The only one getting emotional here is you little buddy.

There ARE things worthy of criticism even in the things we like... unless you're a blind zealot, that is.

The drop rate of Aetherial ciphers and dust to name just one that is designed to steer you to the cash shop for example.

Exactly.... its getting worse and worse... stuff made to be hard to get to make you use the store.

But i guess many will not see it until its something that they really want or feel they need. As long as its not something they specifically feel they want or need the problem does not exist as far as they know.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Yes.

Reykice wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

What it comes down to is that this MMO is also a full fledged business. You must have known when you started playing that there would be optional features that Zeni would charge for. ALL MMOs have things like that in one form or another.

If you aren't prepared or capable of paying for those kinds of things then why would you still expect to get them? Zeni allows you to have access to the base game for free forever after you make the initial purchase of the game. If you want more things after that (those things take time and money for Zeni to make) then you have to be prepared to pay for them.

If you can't at least acknowledge that then MMOs clearly aren't for you, and you need to go find a nice, one-time-purchase single player game.

Ah that good ole "it's a business" cliche. They are ALL businesses. They have ALL always been businesses. Yet you have a game like FFARR that use the sub model for both PC and console.

And that's just an example. I'm not necessarily saying that subs are better than B2P or F2P simply that different business models are viable ways to monetize an MMO. So saying "it's a business" is not really saying anything about the way that this one is monetized.

So, as a good business tactic, Zeni should start giving away even more things for free? There are multiple other MMOs out there that are WAY worse than Zeni in this regard, and yet all of you are crying about how greedy Zeni is. If you hate it with such a passion and it bothers you so much then either; don't participate in it, or leave.

The only one getting emotional here is you little buddy.

There ARE things worthy of criticism even in the things we like... unless you're a blind zealot, that is.

The drop rate of Aetherial ciphers and dust to name just one that is designed to steer you to the cash shop for example.

Exactly.... its getting worse and worse... stuff made to be hard to get to make you use the store.

But i guess many will not see it until its something that they really want or feel they need. As long as its not something they specifically feel they want or need the problem does not exist as far as they know.

It's that "people" are subbing or buying crowns in sale and then saying they aren't being forced with no afterthought that they have paid for crowns to get access to what they're doing today.

I'd be interested in the same question where only those who don't own any dlc and who have never subbed would comment.

Iselin · January 2017

Yes.

Reykice wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

What it comes down to is that this MMO is also a full fledged business. You must have known when you started playing that there would be optional features that Zeni would charge for. ALL MMOs have things like that in one form or another.

If you aren't prepared or capable of paying for those kinds of things then why would you still expect to get them? Zeni allows you to have access to the base game for free forever after you make the initial purchase of the game. If you want more things after that (those things take time and money for Zeni to make) then you have to be prepared to pay for them.

If you can't at least acknowledge that then MMOs clearly aren't for you, and you need to go find a nice, one-time-purchase single player game.

Ah that good ole "it's a business" cliche. They are ALL businesses. They have ALL always been businesses. Yet you have a game like FFARR that use the sub model for both PC and console.

And that's just an example. I'm not necessarily saying that subs are better than B2P or F2P simply that different business models are viable ways to monetize an MMO. So saying "it's a business" is not really saying anything about the way that this one is monetized.

So, as a good business tactic, Zeni should start giving away even more things for free? There are multiple other MMOs out there that are WAY worse than Zeni in this regard, and yet all of you are crying about how greedy Zeni is. If you hate it with such a passion and it bothers you so much then either; don't participate in it, or leave.

The only one getting emotional here is you little buddy.

There ARE things worthy of criticism even in the things we like... unless you're a blind zealot, that is.

The drop rate of Aetherial ciphers and dust to name just one that is designed to steer you to the cash shop for example.

Exactly.... its getting worse and worse... stuff made to be hard to get to make you use the store.

But i guess many will not see it until its something that they really want or feel they need. As long as its not something they specifically feel they want or need the problem does not exist as far as they know.

It's going to be a rude awakening for many after housing goes live and they see the drop rate of furniture crafting recipes and the material requirements to make even the simplest housing furnishing.

I have a feeling that housing will matter to many of those who are currently oblivious to the change in direction to steer us to the cash shop more aggressively.

s_jscorpiorwb17_ESO · January 2017

Reykice wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Absolutely not, while I don't agree with all of Zeni's recent marketing decisions, we certainly are not being forced to buy things from the CS. After all, the majority of items in the crown store are cosmetic anyway; and the last time I checked, I was not being forced in any way, shape, or form to pay for them.

If you feel the unbearable urge to quickly and easily buy items that are also available through other methods, then that's your problem, no one is forcing it on you.

So... you think its reasonable to ask the average player to have 25 milion gold for the houses and who knows how much more for furniture?

Do you have that much gold? Would you spend it all on this IF you wanted it?

Lol 25 million you planning on buying everyone of them. How about they just make the houses free, instant max cp an lvl on char creation, best weapons right from the get go, some things u need to earn an spend time on.

DM_ESO · January 2017

No.

How is a house hard to get? I made enough for the first tier of house in one session the other day and I wasn't even trying. If I make even a tiny effort to play every day, even casually, I'll have enough to get a big house, or several smaller ones before homestead even comes out.

The bigger houses are long term goals to work towards, and the really big ones are meant for guilds to purchase together.