Please be honest to me.

OrphanHelgen · January 2017

No complains here, all though I kind of want to but.
I just want an answer why all these pve nerfs.
Melee dps are already rip long time ago, and then I read this:

Increased the Dual Wield Weapon and Spell Damage penalty by roughly 3%. Weapon and Spell Damage while Dual Wielding (without modifiers) is now equal to using a Two Handed weapon.

I personally think its because we cleared your content too fast, and you cant keep up with new trials.
I also think its on purpose to make raiding dead, so we can go full time on housing and crownstore, and this is your best solution to earn money with the housing patch.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I really want an answer to why you keep nerfing pve, specially a specific playstyle like melee, which is already the least wanted in raids, which actually make sense if I'm correct with the part where you want players to go from trials to housing.

kongkim · January 2017

Its all part of the overall balance. They look at the hard data and how it all perform. Data we don't have.
So balance is your answer.

I really don't get way people have so a huge problem with things like this. Its not that the game get less fun or more fun if they change some numbers.

DMuehlhausen · January 2017

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

No complains here, all though I kind of want to but.
I just want an answer why all these pve nerfs.
Melee dps are already rip long time ago, and then I read this:

Increased the Dual Wield Weapon and Spell Damage penalty by roughly 3%. Weapon and Spell Damage while Dual Wielding (without modifiers) is now equal to using a Two Handed weapon.

I personally think its because we cleared your content too fast, and you cant keep up with new trials.
I also think its on purpose to make raiding dead, so we can go full time on housing and crownstore, and this is your best solution to earn money with the housing patch.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I really want an answer to why you keep nerfing pve, specially a specific playstyle like melee, which is already the least wanted in raids, which actually make sense if I'm correct with the part where you want players to go from trials to housing.

Lower the damage won't really change how fast people eat up the content. Ok so it might take the top guild a few extra attempts until they get the mechanics down better. A lot of changes like this are in attempt to balance both PvE and PvP. The problem is this is impossible to do. If you make it near perfect for PvP then PvE content would probably feel to hard. If you balance PvE then PvP becomes what class can burst the most damage becomes the dominant class.

DannyLV702 · January 2017

4 man vet dungeons can be solo'd

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

It's because as magic, u had to use duel wield for better stats. Changing this balances dual weild with any 2 hand items

Seems they overlooked adding a 2 piece bonus to 2 hand items like staves

Guess this isn't where they want to go with this

Pandorii · January 2017

Maybe this was intended to nerf overload builds on sorcs? (This plus the nerf on max ultimate that can be stored)

Sigtric · January 2017

I don't think it's so much clearly content too fast, there will always be those who do. It's more clearing content too easily.

There are vet dungeons I can take one of my toons into and solo, and I'm a pve scrub, by no means top DPS. This is a problem. Power creep is real and they are reigning it in.

Koolio · January 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

I don't think it's so much clearly content too fast, there will always be those who do. It's more clearing content too easily.

There are vet dungeons I can take one of my toons into and solo, and I'm a pve scrub, by no means top DPS. This is a problem. Power creep is real and they are reigning it in.

People have worked hard to be more powerful. If there isn't an incentive to keep getting stronger then people won't play as much because it won't matter.

Sigtric · January 2017

Koolio wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

I don't think it's so much clearly content too fast, there will always be those who do. It's more clearing content too easily.

There are vet dungeons I can take one of my toons into and solo, and I'm a pve scrub, by no means top DPS. This is a problem. Power creep is real and they are reigning it in.

People have worked hard to be more powerful. If there isn't an incentive to keep getting stronger then people won't play as much because it won't matter.

If you're at the top end of the power curve, after they bring the bottom up some and the top down some, you'll still be at the top of the power curve. If you're not at the top, you'll still have progression ahead of you.

Bandit1215 · January 2017

I like that they are decreasing overall power in pve. To me, it feels like I can just face roll 90% of the pve content other than vMA, vet trials, and maybe a few of the vet dungeons. I want pve to feel more challenging than it currently is, and decreasing overall power is one way to do it.

idk · January 2017

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

No complains here, all though I kind of want to but.
I just want an answer why all these pve nerfs.
Melee dps are already rip long time ago, and then I read this:

Increased the Dual Wield Weapon and Spell Damage penalty by roughly 3%. Weapon and Spell Damage while Dual Wielding (without modifiers) is now equal to using a Two Handed weapon.

I personally think its because we cleared your content too fast, and you cant keep up with new trials.
I also think its on purpose to make raiding dead, so we can go full time on housing and crownstore, and this is your best solution to earn money with the housing patch.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I really want an answer to why you keep nerfing pve, specially a specific playstyle like melee, which is already the least wanted in raids, which actually make sense if I'm correct with the part where you want players to go from trials to housing.

@OrphanHelgen

It's a real stretch to suggest a change to weapon/spell damage for DW is due to a desire or expectation it will lead to more revenues from adding housing. Raiders will raid. It's what they do. It's s what they want to do.

Edziu · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's because as magic, u had to use fuel wield for better stats.

in next patch patch buff magic fire/lighting staff to get additiona 8% single/aoe target damage while dual swords is giving 5%
then nerf additional dual wield damage by 3% to make difference between staves and dual from 3% into 6% difference hurting more stam build than than magic because magic build got at all this buff damage into staff to not be forced to use dual

Koolio · January 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

I don't think it's so much clearly content too fast, there will always be those who do. It's more clearing content too easily.

There are vet dungeons I can take one of my toons into and solo, and I'm a pve scrub, by no means top DPS. This is a problem. Power creep is real and they are reigning it in.

People have worked hard to be more powerful. If there isn't an incentive to keep getting stronger then people won't play as much because it won't matter.

If you're at the top end of the power curve, after they bring the bottom up some and the top down some, you'll still be at the top of the power curve. If you're not at the top, you'll still have progression ahead of you.

If your at the top then the next few months are getting back to where you were. Do this update after update and a year of playing isn't worth it. If your at 35k Dps now then you go to 25k to close the gap. Then 6 months from now you'll hit 35k again. Then they will change again back to 25k. So why did people put the effort to get back to 35k. I don't want to hear people saying " last year I was a lot stronger"

smacx250 · January 2017

My guess is that it was intended to be part of this:
"our overall goal was to lessen the gap between the top and bottom"
DW provided a higher weapon/spell damage than 2H, so they reduced it as part of reducing the "top".

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2017

Not a fan of this. Why use DW over 2H in pvp ever as a nb now?

Solid_Metal · January 2017

i think this change is good, the ultimate goal is to balance and equal raw damage between 2 handed and dual wield, which at first dual wield > 2h

hopefully they implement this right tho

AlwaysOnFire · January 2017

the fact that people who use sword/shield or dual wield have a whole other slot to work with in terms of set bonuses, especially now that sets are so much easier to get now, has always been a big deal. Making 2h and staves more viable without that extra slot is important, and honestly I am glad of that. All the clone builds that use dual or sword and shield just for a certain set bonus, all the fuss about never being a staff user or a 2h user or a bow user was getting boring.

exeeter702 · January 2017

Koolio wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

I don't think it's so much clearly content too fast, there will always be those who do. It's more clearing content too easily.

There are vet dungeons I can take one of my toons into and solo, and I'm a pve scrub, by no means top DPS. This is a problem. Power creep is real and they are reigning it in.

People have worked hard to be more powerful. If there isn't an incentive to keep getting stronger then people won't play as much because it won't matter.

If you're at the top end of the power curve, after they bring the bottom up some and the top down some, you'll still be at the top of the power curve. If you're not at the top, you'll still have progression ahead of you.

If your at the top then the next few months are getting back to where you were. Do this update after update and a year of playing isn't worth it. If your at 35k Dps now then you go to 25k to close the gap. Then 6 months from now you'll hit 35k again. Then they will change again back to 25k. So why did people put the effort to get back to 35k. I don't want to hear people saying " last year I was a lot stronger"

Reading this right here reminds me exactly why not everyone should be in any way shape or form responsible for mmorpg game design.

Your logic is so backwards i dont even know where to begin.

Player power in regards to internal design concerning power creep is not how much dps you can produce or how much stats you can achieve on a character sheet. It is the strength you achieve relative to peers and in game challenges based around where the developers of a game decide to set the bar.

If they instead just buffed the hp/defense values of enemies to offset the power reduction in players via all these nerfs this patch, would you still with a straight face claim that the developers are taking away your "rightfully obtained (rofl) power?" ?

They feel player power at the upper end is a little too high and are bringing it down a notch. They want you to deal less damage via a certain weapon or setup based on data they have and what they see internally. They WANT your end game to become a bit more difficult. They are changing the end game environment by reducing player power, they are not taking from you anything that you have earned.

idk · January 2017

AlwaysOnFire wrote: »

the fact that people who use sword/shield or dual wield have a whole other slot to work with in terms of set bonuses, especially now that sets are so much easier to get now, has always been a big deal. Making 2h and staves more viable without that extra slot is important, and honestly I am glad of that. All the clone builds that use dual or sword and shield just for a certain set bonus, all the fuss about never being a staff user or a 2h user or a bow user was getting boring.

@AlwaysOnFire

However, the fact is magika users do not use swords for the extra set bonus. That is why the set bonus argument doesn't hold.

AlwaysOnFire · January 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

However, the fact is magika users do not use swords for the extra set bonus. That is why the set bonus argument doesn't hold.

What are you talking about? Tons of people who make builds of either resource do this and their builds would not work without the extra slot to get an extra set bonus in, or to fit in certain sets with monster helms + shoulders.

And it wasn't an argument or any sort but an observation of what many people do, of what many listed and popular builds online look like.

OrphanHelgen · January 2017

AlwaysOnFire wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

However, the fact is magika users do not use swords for the extra set bonus. That is why the set bonus argument doesn't hold.

What are you talking about? Tons of people who make builds of either resource do this and their builds would not work without the extra slot to get an extra set bonus in, or to fit in certain sets with monster helms + shoulders.

And it wasn't an argument or any sort but an observation of what many people do, of what many listed and popular builds online look like.

I wont talk about pvp, malestrom or 4 man dungeons now, but for trials the only class using dual wield as magicka, are templars. Maybe it would work with mag nb as well, but after the fire staff 8% single target buff, I think mag NB will go staff for sure.

Koolio · January 2017

exeeter702 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

I don't think it's so much clearly content too fast, there will always be those who do. It's more clearing content too easily.

There are vet dungeons I can take one of my toons into and solo, and I'm a pve scrub, by no means top DPS. This is a problem. Power creep is real and they are reigning it in.

People have worked hard to be more powerful. If there isn't an incentive to keep getting stronger then people won't play as much because it won't matter.

If you're at the top end of the power curve, after they bring the bottom up some and the top down some, you'll still be at the top of the power curve. If you're not at the top, you'll still have progression ahead of you.

If your at the top then the next few months are getting back to where you were. Do this update after update and a year of playing isn't worth it. If your at 35k Dps now then you go to 25k to close the gap. Then 6 months from now you'll hit 35k again. Then they will change again back to 25k. So why did people put the effort to get back to 35k. I don't want to hear people saying " last year I was a lot stronger"

Reading this right here reminds me exactly why not everyone should be in any way shape or form responsible for mmorpg game design.

Your logic is so backwards i dont even know where to begin.

Player power in regards to internal design concerning power creep is not how much dps you can produce or how much stats you can achieve on a character sheet. It is the strength you achieve relative to peers and in game challenges based around where the developers of a game decide to set the bar.

If they instead just buffed the hp/defense values of enemies to offset the power reduction in players via all these nerfs this patch, would you still with a straight face claim that the developers are taking away your "rightfully obtained (rofl) power?" ?

They feel player power at the upper end is a little too high and are bringing it down a notch. They want you to deal less damage via a certain weapon or setup based on data they have and what they see internally. They WANT your end game to become a bit more difficult. They are changing the end game environment by reducing player power, they are not taking from you anything that you have earned.

If they want end game to be more difficult then add mechanics that are more difficult. Why hurt the players power? We work hard and put in lots of time and effort to get that power. Only to have it reduced. It's just discouraging to know that I got to strong for the new players so I get "reduced". They did just up the health and Defense of bosses/adds to level the playing field. If they need to do it again then that's fine. But don't hurt the players.

Edziu · January 2017

Koolio wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

I don't think it's so much clearly content too fast, there will always be those who do. It's more clearing content too easily.

There are vet dungeons I can take one of my toons into and solo, and I'm a pve scrub, by no means top DPS. This is a problem. Power creep is real and they are reigning it in.

People have worked hard to be more powerful. If there isn't an incentive to keep getting stronger then people won't play as much because it won't matter.

If you're at the top end of the power curve, after they bring the bottom up some and the top down some, you'll still be at the top of the power curve. If you're not at the top, you'll still have progression ahead of you.

If your at the top then the next few months are getting back to where you were. Do this update after update and a year of playing isn't worth it. If your at 35k Dps now then you go to 25k to close the gap. Then 6 months from now you'll hit 35k again. Then they will change again back to 25k. So why did people put the effort to get back to 35k. I don't want to hear people saying " last year I was a lot stronger"

Reading this right here reminds me exactly why not everyone should be in any way shape or form responsible for mmorpg game design.

Your logic is so backwards i dont even know where to begin.

Player power in regards to internal design concerning power creep is not how much dps you can produce or how much stats you can achieve on a character sheet. It is the strength you achieve relative to peers and in game challenges based around where the developers of a game decide to set the bar.

If they instead just buffed the hp/defense values of enemies to offset the power reduction in players via all these nerfs this patch, would you still with a straight face claim that the developers are taking away your "rightfully obtained (rofl) power?" ?

They feel player power at the upper end is a little too high and are bringing it down a notch. They want you to deal less damage via a certain weapon or setup based on data they have and what they see internally. They WANT your end game to become a bit more difficult. They are changing the end game environment by reducing player power, they are not taking from you anything that you have earned.

If they want end game to be more difficult then add mechanics that are more difficult. Why hurt the players power? We work hard and put in lots of time and effort to get that power. Only to have it reduced. It's just discouraging to know that I got to strong for the new players so I get "reduced". They did just up the health and Defense of bosses/adds to level the playing field. If they need to do it again then that's fine. But don't hurt the players.

yeah, in every other mmo if players are going to be strong then to game is adding new harder content to be new and bigger challenge for players giving them chance to be better.

but unfortunatelly this game is more casual and only harder contet which we have (vMoL and hist of shadow dungs) isnt in minimum comparable to true hard content in other mmo games, if someone from hard content other game will come here he will just die from laugh about ESO "end game hard content"

Tryxus · January 2017

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Not a fan of this. Why use DW over 2H in pvp ever as a nb now?

Dat Destro Ulti

stevepdodson_ESO888 · January 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

I don't think it's so much clearly content too fast, there will always be those who do. It's more clearing content too easily.

There are vet dungeons I can take one of my toons into and solo, and I'm a pve scrub, by no means top DPS. This is a problem. Power creep is real and they are reigning it in.

my worry with this is that at the same time they are also increasing the CP cap, which is probably the biggest cause of the power creep we have right now

at least when there were Vet levels and no CP's, when you hit max level that was it (I might weep a little for Soft Caps...ahem enough of this sentimental clap-trap)

perhaps a re-working of CP system is required

exeeter702 · January 2017

Koolio wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

I don't think it's so much clearly content too fast, there will always be those who do. It's more clearing content too easily.

There are vet dungeons I can take one of my toons into and solo, and I'm a pve scrub, by no means top DPS. This is a problem. Power creep is real and they are reigning it in.

People have worked hard to be more powerful. If there isn't an incentive to keep getting stronger then people won't play as much because it won't matter.

If you're at the top end of the power curve, after they bring the bottom up some and the top down some, you'll still be at the top of the power curve. If you're not at the top, you'll still have progression ahead of you.

If your at the top then the next few months are getting back to where you were. Do this update after update and a year of playing isn't worth it. If your at 35k Dps now then you go to 25k to close the gap. Then 6 months from now you'll hit 35k again. Then they will change again back to 25k. So why did people put the effort to get back to 35k. I don't want to hear people saying " last year I was a lot stronger"

Reading this right here reminds me exactly why not everyone should be in any way shape or form responsible for mmorpg game design.

Your logic is so backwards i dont even know where to begin.

Player power in regards to internal design concerning power creep is not how much dps you can produce or how much stats you can achieve on a character sheet. It is the strength you achieve relative to peers and in game challenges based around where the developers of a game decide to set the bar.

If they instead just buffed the hp/defense values of enemies to offset the power reduction in players via all these nerfs this patch, would you still with a straight face claim that the developers are taking away your "rightfully obtained (rofl) power?" ?

They feel player power at the upper end is a little too high and are bringing it down a notch. They want you to deal less damage via a certain weapon or setup based on data they have and what they see internally. They WANT your end game to become a bit more difficult. They are changing the end game environment by reducing player power, they are not taking from you anything that you have earned.

If they want end game to be more difficult then add mechanics that are more difficult. Why hurt the players power? We work hard and put in lots of time and effort to get that power. Only to have it reduced. It's just discouraging to know that I got to strong for the new players so I get "reduced". They did just up the health and Defense of bosses/adds to level the playing field. If they need to do it again then that's fine. But don't hurt the players.

You are completely missing the point.. Your power is relative to the games environment and rules. No player is getting "hurt". You keep putting this emphasis on some kind of mindset that you are being robbed of your efforts and hard work which is ludicrous. Increasing monster strength and reducing player power are virtually the same. One of those sollutions alleviates the very real issue of natural power creep in verticle proggession found in mmos, and the other exacerbates its.

You are putting too much stock into your acheivments in game. I dont like saying it, but it sounds like an entitlement issue without understanding the bigger picture of what is going on under the hood.

Its also worth mentioning that you should know throwing more and more mechanics at an encounter is not an actual solution.

Im finding it hard to elaborate in a more concise fashion... At the risk of making an awful analogy..

If monopoly gave you less money when you pass go and / or increased the price of property across the board. They are doing so to curb an overall issue with the foundation of the game. It would in no way effect the players ability to spend his/her money wisely.

Woeler · January 2017

Because PVE damage is over the top. Skipping one of the most intense mechanics on Rakkhat hardmode (mooncircle) because of insane DPS numbers is just bulls!t. They did not anticipate for this, and the nerfs are good.

I remember raiders cheering when we had to play mechanics again in SO, AA and HRC and now some seem to be mad that their DPS gets nerfed and they can't skip mechanics anymore.

There is more to raiding than posting DPS numbers, at least, for some people I guess.

AlMcFly · January 2017

I'm still wondering why two-handed weapons don't count as two set items in a 5-Piece set, making them even more inferior in every way to dual-wielding. This has never been changed since launch, and nobody seems to have a problem with it. Dual-wielding one-handed melee weapons not only puts out arguably more physical dps that a two-handed melee weapon, it also allows you to contribute two pieces to the set bonus. Someone who wants to be a mage has really very little choice than to hold a two-handed staff, gimping their dreams at two five-piece sets and a monster set.

Koolio · January 2017

exeeter702 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

I don't think it's so much clearly content too fast, there will always be those who do. It's more clearing content too easily.

There are vet dungeons I can take one of my toons into and solo, and I'm a pve scrub, by no means top DPS. This is a problem. Power creep is real and they are reigning it in.

People have worked hard to be more powerful. If there isn't an incentive to keep getting stronger then people won't play as much because it won't matter.

If you're at the top end of the power curve, after they bring the bottom up some and the top down some, you'll still be at the top of the power curve. If you're not at the top, you'll still have progression ahead of you.

If your at the top then the next few months are getting back to where you were. Do this update after update and a year of playing isn't worth it. If your at 35k Dps now then you go to 25k to close the gap. Then 6 months from now you'll hit 35k again. Then they will change again back to 25k. So why did people put the effort to get back to 35k. I don't want to hear people saying " last year I was a lot stronger"

Reading this right here reminds me exactly why not everyone should be in any way shape or form responsible for mmorpg game design.

Your logic is so backwards i dont even know where to begin.

Player power in regards to internal design concerning power creep is not how much dps you can produce or how much stats you can achieve on a character sheet. It is the strength you achieve relative to peers and in game challenges based around where the developers of a game decide to set the bar.

If they instead just buffed the hp/defense values of enemies to offset the power reduction in players via all these nerfs this patch, would you still with a straight face claim that the developers are taking away your "rightfully obtained (rofl) power?" ?

They feel player power at the upper end is a little too high and are bringing it down a notch. They want you to deal less damage via a certain weapon or setup based on data they have and what they see internally. They WANT your end game to become a bit more difficult. They are changing the end game environment by reducing player power, they are not taking from you anything that you have earned.

If they want end game to be more difficult then add mechanics that are more difficult. Why hurt the players power? We work hard and put in lots of time and effort to get that power. Only to have it reduced. It's just discouraging to know that I got to strong for the new players so I get "reduced". They did just up the health and Defense of bosses/adds to level the playing field. If they need to do it again then that's fine. But don't hurt the players.

You are completely missing the point.. Your power is relative to the games environment and rules. No player is getting "hurt". You keep putting this emphasis on some kind of mindset that you are being robbed of your efforts and hard work which is ludicrous. Increasing monster strength and reducing player power are virtually the same. One of those sollutions alleviates the very real issue of natural power creep in verticle proggession found in mmos, and the other exacerbates its.

You are putting too much stock into your acheivments in game. I dont like saying it, but it sounds like an entitlement issue without understanding the bigger picture of what is going on under the hood.

Its also worth mentioning that you should know throwing more and more mechanics at an encounter is not an actual solution.

Im finding it hard to elaborate in a more concise fashion... At the risk of making an awful analogy..

If monopoly gave you less money when you pass go and / or increased the price of property across the board. They are doing so to curb an overall issue with the foundation of the game. It would in no way effect the players ability to spend his/her money wisely.

I understand what's going on with pve dps being too strong for the content. And that the issues need to be addressed. Most Mmos that I've played makes the enemies harder. They are taken the other solution by nerfing the players. Which in sense yes the same outcome. From how people see it is nerf them. Nerf them again. Then the content is balanced. Which in a year nobody could really tell the difference. But for people who just achieved the Dps times they were looking for gets lower. They feel "butt" hurt because it changes what they are used to doing themselves. If the nerfs were in other areas then people would feel what I feel.

ZOS " reduced crit modifiers to increase crit damage to 1.1 of value"

That would mean instead of a 15k crit on a 10k move they would now hit 11k.

Some people don't want THEIR numbers reduced even if they content is going to be balanced. Why not up the health on the adds to make the changes the same without the players damage numbers going down.

I'll play regardless. I just want to actually get stronger the more I play. Not reduce the players strength to accommodate the content. We are already stuck with the same gear level for a year minimal cp upgrades. The only thing we can do is rearrange our stats at this point.

Maybe I'm just one sided. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks like this. But they will change what they want and I'll adapt. Just want my time playing to be for improvement not to be close to where I was last update.

Browiseth · January 2017

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Melee dps are already rip long time ago

lol

idk · January 2017

AlwaysOnFire wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

However, the fact is magika users do not use swords for the extra set bonus. That is why the set bonus argument doesn't hold.

What are you talking about? Tons of people who make builds of either resource do this and their builds would not work without the extra slot to get an extra set bonus in, or to fit in certain sets with monster helms + shoulders.

And it wasn't an argument or any sort but an observation of what many people do, of what many listed and popular builds online look like.

@AlwaysOnFire

What they do is one thing. Why may not be obvious. Magika users use sword for twin blade blunt. The extra damage it provides is superior to the extra set bonus. So superior it is still better when the extra set bonus slot is not used.

however, the use of swords by magika users have reduced recently and with the changes to dstaff on PTS this will probably change further once homestead is live.