This 2 key system for vets is too complex for puggers

WalksonGraves · January 2017

If the requirement isn't a scroll people screw it up no matter how simple it is. If it is a scroll you get idiots who aggro the boss before it's used and my only option is cause a wipe.

It should be a hard mode option in the queue to avoid all the "human error".

Reorx_Holybeard · January 2017

The nice thing about a scroll or mechanics for hard-mode is you can try a few times at the hard-mode and if you fail you can revert to non-hard mode. If you choose hard-mode from the beginning of the dungeon then you'd be wasting the 15-60min of going the dungeon before you figured out you wouldn't be able to do it.

WalksonGraves · January 2017

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

The nice thing about a scroll or mechanics for hard-mode is you can try a few times at the hard-mode and if you fail you can revert to non-hard mode. If you choose hard-mode from the beginning of the dungeon then you'd be wasting the 15-60min of going the dungeon before you figured out you wouldn't be able to do it.

No I wouldn't, I'd boot whoever is screwing up and complete it with someone who can.

Rosveen · January 2017

I've never really had a problem with this in PUGs.

svartorn · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

If the requirement isn't a scroll people screw it up no matter how simple it is. If it is a scroll you get idiots who aggro the boss before it's used and my only option is cause a wipe.

It should be a hard mode option in the queue to avoid all the "human error".

Most of the puggers are running around with bows spamming snipe, so its hard to expect much from them.

Mashille · January 2017

No I wouldn't, I'd boot whoever is screwing up and complete it with someone who can.

I'm pretty sure that's a bit too extreme. It's just one key, was probably going to be a Prosperous Pirate Skeleton anyway.

kargen27 · January 2017

The fun part of the scrolls is when the group is just doing a farming run (or just a random) and someone reads the scroll.

It isn't always a matter of to complex. Sometimes one in the group doesn't care about keys and will either aggro earlier or ignore hard mode mechanics simply because they want the dungeon done and over with.

WalksonGraves · January 2017

Mashille wrote: »

No I wouldn't, I'd boot whoever is screwing up and complete it with someone who can.

I'm pretty sure that just makes you a bit of an ass. It's just one key.

Exactly, and thanks to the terrible rng even doing 6 dungeons a day 12 keys gets you a pile of trash. I'm not halving my loot because people queued for the wrong content.

ArchMikem · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

The nice thing about a scroll or mechanics for hard-mode is you can try a few times at the hard-mode and if you fail you can revert to non-hard mode. If you choose hard-mode from the beginning of the dungeon then you'd be wasting the 15-60min of going the dungeon before you figured out you wouldn't be able to do it.

No I wouldn't, I'd boot whoever is screwing up and complete it with someone who can.

Wow, glad I'm not running Dungeons with you.

OrphanHelgen · January 2017

I would like the scroll to be more visible, and also once you activate it, its on hardmode everytime. Now you whipe and you forget to activate it again, ending up with doing it on normal.
Ofc read it to deactivate it again, like you can do in vmol.

Mashille · January 2017

@WalksonGraves

That's fair. The loot tables are rather soul destroying. I just feel it's a bit mean for people who go through the dungeon just to be kicked out if they're not good enough as not all players are really good but they can still be nice people who enjoy the game.

idk · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

If the requirement isn't a scroll people screw it up no matter how simple it is. If it is a scroll you get idiots who aggro the boss before it's used and my only option is cause a wipe.

It should be a hard mode option in the queue to avoid all the "human error".

@WalksonGraves

HM has been this way since the beginning except for dungeons that HM was not doing something to make the fight harder. Also, if you end up in a pug that cannot handle HM the current design permits being able to do it normal after a few attempts.

The one thing they could do is to place a quest icon on the scroll when your on the quest. Also, run ahead and grab the scroll before someone grabs the boss.

starkerealm · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

The nice thing about a scroll or mechanics for hard-mode is you can try a few times at the hard-mode and if you fail you can revert to non-hard mode. If you choose hard-mode from the beginning of the dungeon then you'd be wasting the 15-60min of going the dungeon before you figured out you wouldn't be able to do it.

No I wouldn't, I'd boot whoever is screwing up and complete it with someone who can.

So, you'd waste another 15-60 minutes pulling in more randos, who can't clear it and keep screwing up as well?

vyndral13preub18_ESO · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Mashille wrote: »

No I wouldn't, I'd boot whoever is screwing up and complete it with someone who can.

I'm pretty sure that just makes you a bit of an ass. It's just one key.

Exactly, and thanks to the terrible rng even doing 6 dungeons a day 12 keys gets you a pile of trash. I'm not halving my loot because people queued for the wrong content.

Your actually halving your loot because you couldnt be bothered to join a guild that can help you.

pattyLtd · January 2017

Meh, no offense but you have an attitude problem OP!

Vonovosi · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

The nice thing about a scroll or mechanics for hard-mode is you can try a few times at the hard-mode and if you fail you can revert to non-hard mode. If you choose hard-mode from the beginning of the dungeon then you'd be wasting the 15-60min of going the dungeon before you figured out you wouldn't be able to do it.

No I wouldn't, I'd boot whoever is screwing up and complete it with someone who can.

Oh so you are going to wait while group finder has to find 3 more players to join your group because players keep leaving as soon as they see you are on last boss and they are not going to get their 2 keys? that is so mush faster than reseting the fight.

Loc2262 · January 2017

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Your actually halving your loot because you couldnt be bothered to join a guild that can help you.

That, or ask in zone chat for a group with the specific intent to do two-key mode.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

If you're doing a pug via the activity finder consider they may not care cause they don't have the quests.

Otherwise for speed it's often a waste of time to read the scroll cause ppl wipe.

mvffins · January 2017

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Now you whipe and you forget to activate it again, ending up with doing it on normal.

Or you can drop the quest and re-pick it up. Like someone else said it is just one key, and if you do undaunted on a regular basis you should be able to get a shoulder piece that fits into your build relatively soon. If you want a specific set with a specific trait of a specific armor class, well I hate to break it to you....but you are the narrow-minded one.

Soella · January 2017

If you care about doing hard mode you must talk about it beforehand. Other 3 people might have another plans.

raglau · January 2017

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

The nice thing about a scroll or mechanics for hard-mode is you can try a few times at the hard-mode and if you fail you can revert to non-hard mode. If you choose hard-mode from the beginning of the dungeon then you'd be wasting the 15-60min of going the dungeon before you figured out you wouldn't be able to do it.

Yes, and PUGs in HM are a risky proposition, mainly DPS is too weak to finish the thing before you get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, so you do need a get out of jail free card. Even in my own guild there's only a few people I know de facto can do HM in a reasonable time, last night I had to leave a group with some guildies I've not run with before, as it wasn't working out and I had to get ready to make a dinner appointment.

I have so many keys in my inventory now, and let's face it the sets are usually training or prosperous anyway, that I don't do HM unless someone specifically asks for it and I've assessed the team is up to the job and we all agree we have no other commitments.

It's just one key, it's no big deal really, but it can be fun when it comes together.

kargen27 · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Mashille wrote: »

No I wouldn't, I'd boot whoever is screwing up and complete it with someone who can.

I'm pretty sure that just makes you a bit of an ass. It's just one key.

Exactly, and thanks to the terrible rng even doing 6 dungeons a day 12 keys gets you a pile of trash. I'm not halving my loot because people queued for the wrong content.

Just because you queued for a dungeon with the intent of doing the pledge for two keys doesn't mean the rest of the group did. A member of your group could have queued for a random and just got unlucky enough to be stuck in your group.

If you want the two keys you might have to drop the pledge get it again then run again with different group. It isn't fair nor reasonable to kick someone simply because they had different goals in mind. That being said if three want to run hard mode the 4th should at least give it a serious go.

If it wouldn't make wait times even longer it would be nice to be able to select intent when using the dungeon finder. Very few things cause as much grief as a group that has one that wants to speed run to the end because all he wants is the helmet and one wanting to do the quest and kill everything along the way because they want XP.

Cazic · January 2017

Never had an issue with this in pugs. If there's someone who doesn't understand the mechanics it takes two minutes to explain and they always catch on. I actually like that they're not all just scrolls.

Reykice · January 2017

Mashille wrote: »

@WalksonGraves

That's fair. The loot tables are rather soul destroying. I just feel it's a bit mean for people who go through the dungeon just to be kicked out if they're not good enough as not all players are really good but they can still be nice people who enjoy the game.

Yes well the boss does not care about that and if somebody is bad you kick him no other choice. If the person knows he is that bad shame on him for queueing for vets.

ChandraNalaar · January 2017

I'm pretty sure that just makes you a bit of an ass. It's just one key.[/quote]

Exactly, and thanks to the terrible rng even doing 6 dungeons a day 12 keys gets you a pile of trash. I'm not halving my loot because people queued for the wrong content. [/quote]

You probably shouldn't be pugging vet dungeons then if you're so concerned about how they are done; join a guild or get a group of friends that are good who can take you through.

Ackwalan · January 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

The nice thing about a scroll or mechanics for hard-mode is you can try a few times at the hard-mode and if you fail you can revert to non-hard mode. If you choose hard-mode from the beginning of the dungeon then you'd be wasting the 15-60min of going the dungeon before you figured out you wouldn't be able to do it.

No I wouldn't, I'd boot whoever is screwing up and complete it with someone who can.

I get the feeling that is you that keep messing up the group.

WalksonGraves · January 2017

The whole reason the finder exists is convenience. My guildies usually have the pledges done by the time I get on. If you are doing the vet daily pledge expect to do scrolls, honestly if you can't handle hard mode you probably can barely handle regular, it doesn't make it that much harder.