HI im a dragon KNIGHT... yet there is no viable build for 2 hander and dual wield...

Mikkiz1990b16_ESO · January 2017

there is only 2 builds viable for this char, where is the so called '' diversity, if i wanna dish out anything in dungeons or anything at all vs any1 i gotta play either a stamina DK ( bow and dual wield , or a magicka dk, forced into using 2 staff. when did they make this .? why is 2 handers so bad now and dual wield only viable with bow... i wanna make my own build that actually works , become some kind of death knight, with 2 handed sword , popping my dragon scale and killing ***, but thats just not viable at all

Calboy · January 2017

There will always be a build that's stronger than everything else because 100% balance will never be achieved, but don't let that put you off making other builds. They may not be the most effective builds in the current meta but they will still work. This time next year bow with a destro staff will probably be the dps meta. Who knows?

dday3six · January 2017

Well, it depends on what you mean by "viable". You can certainly get through most content with a 2H Stamina build, you just won't be topping the DPS charts against equally skilled and geared players who use DW/Bow. As for Magicka well yes they have less weapon choice because more skills are Magicja based.

Calboy wrote: »

...This time next year bow with a destro staff will probably be the dps meta. Who knows?

Given have Stamina and Magicka scale on different stats I highly doubt that unless the game sees major changes to have stat scaling is currently done.

Milvan · January 2017

You are completely wrong and you writting is really really bad.

PVE WISE
There is many different builds for both stamdk and magidk. Also, there is more than 1 min/max build for both of them. There diversity? Yes, there is diversity, you can get +40k dps with more than one build, yet - as any other mmorpg - you can't get that dps with any build. It doesnt mean the game lacks diversity, but some times things just can't work together. The very chance to choice between magicka and stamina with the same class is more diversity than a lot of mmorpg out there.

PVP WISE
PVP bulid versality is much bigger than PVE. 2h is great, not for all purpose just like everything else, but is a must have for stam pvp.

I don't know your cp or how long you have been on the game but gear and CP only increases what's already there. I guarantee to you that you can get more than 25k dps (which is okayish for most trials and dungeons) with most of builds out there.

JWKe · January 2017

Maybe a 2h/DW build won't fit a Min/max type gameplay. But, I wouldn't go as far as to say not viable. I've seen some pet builds out there that are viable... if pet builds are viable I don't see how 2h/DW DK can't be.

SnubbS · January 2017

Dizzy swing is the worst spammable in the history of gaming -- other than that 2h/DW is fine in PvP. Corrosive>Steel Tornado is still a decent combo.

Thybrinena · January 2017

2H has a place in PvE I guess but certainly has it's place in PvP currently.

If you use those "2 viable builds" you'll still get beat by others and it won't be because of your gear. In the same light, you also can try different things/builds and you'll beat those with the "meta". Best gear equipped and best skills slotted doesn't equate to best player.

You don't have to go further than youtube to see players who have a niche angle on classes that do very well especially in the 1v1/vX situations.

Akatsukisan · January 2017

2H swording isn't so bad truthfully (if doing questions or PVE) now once you get into the PVP it tends to take a toll I mean it's doable surely, yes! but... you gotta know your build and how to make it work... I've heard that bow is taking the pedestal right now in terms of DPS and all that but don't let it pull you away from making your own type of build and improving it!

I am sure there's tons of ways to make it work out for your own benefit if you research into it and actually put some effort instead of doing what i do and stick on any weapon/armor I find that is slightly stronger then my current one, haha!

xRIVALENx · January 2017

Create a viable build

GreenhaloX · January 2017

2H (greatsword) stam DK is very viable in PvE, despite so many are saying it is not and is only for PvP. Even many shun 2H from trials. What a load of crap! 2H are largely underestimated. Fine, I don't care. All I use in PvE contents is a 2H. I'm not a sorc, and I tried DW, but none of these stuck with me. Yes, a 2H stam DK may be a bit slower than a DW, unless you tack on rapid/retreating or charging maneuver into your skill bar. I'm not saying I am the best dpser or top tier player (I don't care about it and just play to enjoy the game), but I do fine with a 2H in dungeons/pledges or trials; even soloed certain vet dungeons and world boss pits many times over.

Especially with a wrecking blow (not dizzying strike or swing; whatever it is), you get 20% more damage from your 2nd consecutive strike. You don't "spam" wrecking blow, contrarily to many are speculating. There is a technique or animation cancelling; you can either combine a light attack or heavy attack with wrecking blow (WB.) I favor comboing heavy attack with WB, because you get huge damages output, plus the heavy attack restored the stamina. With this combo, I am able to dish out upwards to the mid-40K and even over 50k damages (at times) from just one single combo strike. Using this heavy/WB combo (as a dps evolution), in conjunction with endless hail, rearming trap, or even with flame of oblivion, and if the monster set proc, you are dealing some serious dps (per evolution.) However, the heavy/WB may not be as fast as certain DW strike, but it smack hard when hits, and can take out certain targets much quicker than a DW. Not to mention, a WB strike are capable to hit up to and damage 3 targets at once.

Try using a Dreugh King Slayer (DKS) 5-piece as your base. Many people also slam/bash on heavy armor. That is another load of crap. Yes, you get that extra 12% weapon damage having 5-piece medium on, but you get 20% from the DKS. Yes, there's a skill you can slot on your bar that gives you major brutality (20% extra weapon damage), like rally for a 2H, and sorc and DW also have such skill, but by slotting that skill on your bar, you're just taking up a slot. I'm not saying heavy armor is the must have in the game. People like to have what they like (light, medium or heavy), but you can't count out a heavy 5-piece DKS. You get major brutality at all times with the DKS, thus, freeing up a slot on your skill bar to throw on another skill set. Let's say you slot a fighter skills, like rearming trap.. that gives you another 3% weapon damage increase. Ahhh.. so now, the DKS plus the rearming trap give you 23% extra weapon damage. If you slot another fighter skill, then you're up to 26%, etc.

If you're a DW, this even benefits you even further. You have 12 slots for an a DW (DK) armor build. You can combo a 5-piece medium for armor (and get that extra 12%) with a 5-piece DKS.. and you can also slot a 2-piece monster set. Unfortunately, as a 2H, you only get 11 slots, but you can still combo 5 mediums and the 5 DKS. You just can't add the monster set. However, I tried that and my overall weapon damage went to almost the mid-4k. I was getting good damage (dps) from it, but I didn't like not having the extra damage procked from the monster set, like Skoria or Velidreth. I find it, that the procked damages help kill a target faster.

Either way, using a 2H is completely fine in PvE. Plus, you get more spell and physical resistance with 5 pieces heavy. Don't get discourage. There are viable builds for a 2H stam DK in PvE. You just have to play around with it. Currently, I'm using 5 DKS, 2 Skoria and 4 Spriggans. I don't get the 5-piece perk from the Spriggan, but having that 4 extra pieces, still benefit in extra overall stamina and weapon damage.

Rjizzle09 · January 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

2H (greatsword) stam DK is very viable in PvE, despite so many are saying it is not and is only for PvP. Even many shun 2H from trials. What a load of crap! 2H are largely underestimated. Fine, I don't care. All I use in PvE contents is a 2H. I'm not a sorc, and I tried DW, but none of these stuck with me. Yes, a 2H stam DK may be a bit slower than a DW, unless you tack on rapid/retreating or charging maneuver into your skill bar. I'm not saying I am the best dpser or top tier player (I don't care about it and just play to enjoy the game), but I do fine with a 2H in dungeons/pledges or trials; even soloed certain vet dungeons and world boss pits many times over.

Especially with a wrecking blow (not dizzying strike or swing; whatever it is), you get 20% more damage from your 2nd consecutive strike. You don't "spam" wrecking blow, contrarily to many are speculating. There is a technique or animation cancelling; you can either combine a light attack or heavy attack with wrecking blow (WB.) I favor comboing heavy attack with WB, because you get huge damages output, plus the heavy attack restored the stamina. With this combo, I am able to dish out upwards to the mid-40K and even over 50k damages (at times) from just one single combo strike. Using this heavy/WB combo (as a dps evolution), in conjunction with endless hail, rearming trap, or even with flame of oblivion, and if the monster set proc, you are dealing some serious dps (per evolution.) However, the heavy/WB may not be as fast as certain DW strike, but it smack hard when hits, and can take out certain targets much quicker than a DW. Not to mention, a WB strike are capable to hit up to and damage 3 targets at once.

Try using a Dreugh King Slayer (DKS) 5-piece as your base. Many people also slam/bash on heavy armor. That is another load of crap. Yes, you get that extra 12% weapon damage having 5-piece medium on, but you get 20% from the DKS. Yes, there's a skill you can slot on your bar that gives you major brutality (20% extra weapon damage), like rally for a 2H, and sorc and DW also have such skill, but by slotting that skill on your bar, you're just taking up a slot. I'm not saying heavy armor is the must have in the game. People like to have what they like (light, medium or heavy), but you can't count out a heavy 5-piece DKS. You get major brutality at all times with the DKS, thus, freeing up a slot on your skill bar to throw on another skill set. Let's say you slot a fighter skills, like rearming trap.. that gives you another 3% weapon damage increase. Ahhh.. so now, the DKS plus the rearming trap give you 23% extra weapon damage. If you slot another fighter skill, then you're up to 26%, etc.

If you're a DW, this even benefits you even further. You have 12 slots for an a DW (DK) armor build. You can combo a 5-piece medium for armor (and get that extra 12%) with a 5-piece DKS.. and you can also slot a 2-piece monster set. Unfortunately, as a 2H, you only get 11 slots, but you can still combo 5 mediums and the 5 DKS. You just can't add the monster set. However, I tried that and my overall weapon damage went to almost the mid-4k. I was getting good damage (dps) from it, but I didn't like not having the extra damage procked from the monster set, like Skoria or Velidreth. I find it, that the procked damages help kill a target faster.

Either way, using a 2H is completely fine in PvE. Plus, you get more spell and physical resistance with 5 pieces heavy. Don't get discourage. There are viable builds for a 2H stam DK in PvE. You just have to play around with it. Currently, I'm using 5 DKS, 2 Skoria and 4 Spriggans. I don't get the 5-piece perk from the Spriggan, but having that 4 extra pieces, still benefit in extra overall stamina and weapon damage.

While i agree you CAN use a two hand in pve most groups wonr even look at you if you say youre gonna use a two hander and like yeah everyone wants to play how they want but elder scrolls have done a bad job in this game with that because although they SAY you can you really cant if you wanna complete higher level content like maw or hard mode trials simy because the millionz of health and mechanics require a very high amount of dps to beat them. Duel wield does maybe like 5 timea the amlunt of damage than a two hander especially on a stam dk since its a dot based class and duel wield EMPOWERS our dots. Im not sayin youre bad for using a two hand im just saying that the play as you want concept doesnt work in this game like zos originally inteded because they can't balance the game for some reason. Its like you COULD use two bows or a bow and a resto staff or two resto staves or like two two handers but why would you? lol What if youre using a two hander and this fight has a mechanic where everyone has to get back and be ranged and the boss gains a damage shield that you have to dps down or he enrages and you wipe youre sol because you dont have a bow to damage the boss enough to get the shield down you would be letting the team down because you didnt contribute because you want to play how you want. Two hander USED to be the beat dps but wven still you paired it with a bow but times have changed and people dont like change especially in this game hell even i dont like some of thw things i have to do now but i do it because i want ro stay relevant ro the times

Anti_Virus · January 2017

Mikkiz1990b16_ESO wrote: »

there is only 2 builds viable for this char, where is the so called '' diversity, if i wanna dish out anything in dungeons or anything at all vs any1 i gotta play either a stamina DK ( bow and dual wield , or a magicka dk, forced into using 2 staff. when did they make this .? why is 2 handers so bad now and dual wield only viable with bow... i wanna make my own build that actually works , become some kind of death knight, with 2 handed sword , popping my dragon scale and killing ***, but thats just not viable at all

You can complete content with any build but get ready for the L33ts to kick you for not following the meta.

ParaNostram · January 2017

Just gotta find a way to make it work is all I can say. You could use the DW bar for dots and buffs, then swap over to the 2 hander for the majority of your damage. You can get at least three DOTS on the enemy before you switch to a greatsword or what have you and then just go to town hoss! However, you won't have a shield to hide behind which will make your survivability a bit irritating which with a DK you have 0 mobility so yeah, no compensating there...

DragonBound · January 2017

Milvan wrote: »

You are completely wrong and you writting is really really bad.

PVE WISE
There is many different builds for both stamdk and magidk. Also, there is more than 1 min/max build for both of them. There diversity? Yes, there is diversity, you can get +40k dps with more than one build, yet - as any other mmorpg - you can't get that dps with any build. It doesnt mean the game lacks diversity, but some times things just can't work together. The very chance to choice between magicka and stamina with the same class is more diversity than a lot of mmorpg out there.

PVP WISE
PVP bulid versality is much bigger than PVE. 2h is great, not for all purpose just like everything else, but is a must have for stam pvp.

I don't know your cp or how long you have been on the game but gear and CP only increases what's already there. I guarantee to you that you can get more than 25k dps (which is okayish for most trials and dungeons) with most of builds out there.

Except you loose out of tons of dps by splitting your stats but this may change in the future, anyways if you want to do vets and etc you will have to choose one stat for the most part unless your a tank. But sadly 2handers are not the best in pve, but they are still good, they have good single target hits to, and you can always do aoe with dual wield while using 2hander for single targets but then you still might want some ranged.

Mikkiz1990b16_ESO · January 2017

Milvan wrote: »

You are completely wrong and you writting is really really bad.

PVE WISE
There is many different builds for both stamdk and magidk. Also, there is more than 1 min/max build for both of them. There diversity? Yes, there is diversity, you can get +40k dps with more than one build, yet - as any other mmorpg - you can't get that dps with any build. It doesnt mean the game lacks diversity, but some times things just can't work together. The very chance to choice between magicka and stamina with the same class is more diversity than a lot of mmorpg out there.

PVP WISE
PVP bulid versality is much bigger than PVE. 2h is great, not for all purpose just like everything else, but is a must have for stam pvp.

I don't know your cp or how long you have been on the game but gear and CP only increases what's already there. I guarantee to you that you can get more than 25k dps (which is okayish for most trials and dungeons) with most of builds out there.

wait, i do NOT see my writing being bad ANYWHERE, every word is easy to understand and no spelling error... but your spelling on the other hand here is really bad, so do not talk to me about being really bad at typing... writting is with 1 writing.and what is versality. its called versatility. do not speak to me about bad typing bro , just sayin...

KochDerDamonen · January 2017

Funny, you emphasize two-hander and dual wield with "KNIGHT", though to me I would go to sword&shield and then two-handed as a secondary in mind when I read the word knight.

as far as your actual issue, I think it's been answered.

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

Umm one of the common dk archetypes is a light armor caster.

You dont have to be a KNIGHT to play a dk.

Sovaso · January 2017

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Umm one of the common dk archetypes is a light armor caster. You dont have to be a KNIGHT to play a dk.

lmao

Cronopoly · January 2017

While others dithered around, I don't think anyone talked to your point. Did you want to address why 2Hand will get you kicked from all dungeon groups? Because of it's designed skills that do not synergise DPS wise for the group getting through the content as efficiently as DW?

If so, yes, it's a designed mechanic. If you look at the skills there's some that no one really use at all in PVE as much as others.

If one of the Cleave morphs could be reworked to:
1) Hit harder in the Cone area.
2) Remove the bleed. Note: I said one of the morphs...someone somewhere might want that bleed...

It would basically be a "Now" spammable 2hand skill for equitable damage compared to say Steel Tornado. But providing diversity, as it would be targeted in a cone of course so positioning would be most important. Unlike spin to win's general area.

That said, ZOS designed it this way, so I have no idea if they would be inclined to revisit this mechanic. I'd like to use a cone attack in PVP but today it's laughable in practice.

Proc sets have made most Melee skills largely obsolete (in PVP).

raj72616a · January 2017

again i see ppl casually claim that 40k dps is easily achievable without meta dps build (dw+bow for stam).

please.
please.
please enlight me.
show me your equipment and skill setup, and your rotation, and combat metrics record:
how did you achieve 40k single target dps with a twohanded build?

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

@raj72616a wrote: »

again i see ppl casually claim that 40k dps is easily achievable without meta dps build (dw+bow for stam).

please.
please.
please enlight me.
show me your equipment and skill setup, and your rotation, and combat metrics record:
how did you achieve 40k single target dps with a twohanded build?

Its not what they said.

Milvan wrote: »

you can get +40k dps with more than one build

Milvan wrote: »

I guarantee to you that you can get more than 25k dps (which is okayish for most trials and dungeons) with most of builds out there.

And thats true, you can do 20k ish with any build that makes sense (Probably wrecking blow spamming with some dots will give you that). And there is more than one viable dk setup.

Asmael · January 2017

raj72616a wrote: »

again i see ppl casually claim that 40k dps is easily achievable without meta dps build (dw+bow for stam).

please.
please.
please enlight me.
show me your equipment and skill setup, and your rotation, and combat metrics record:
how did you achieve 40k single target dps with a twohanded build?

Like diz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6J3ByXkr5g

raj72616a · January 2017

on average people are not doing 25k single target dps.

i tank. but i have a set of hunding rage medium armor sharpened dualwielding set with kragh monster set ready if a pug is going too slow.

hidden blade, rearming trap, blood craze, biting jab spam and reapply dot when needed, does that make sense? my other bar is one handed and shield so nothing for dps there. and my single target dps can at most reach 15k in a dungeon party.

so i guess with a dedicated dps build with dw and twohanded, with a sharpened maelstrom maul, 25k single target should be doable? but how is that comparable to 40k dps meta build?

me_ming · January 2017

It is rather sad that the only viable weapons right now especially for stam in PvE is a bow and dual wield. I mean, let's admit it, if you really want to do endgame content (trials and all) and you use anything besides bow and dual wield (stam-wise), you would significantly feel your incompetence. Funny thing is that 2H has one of the not-so-many executes stamSorcs and stamDKs and stamplars have. Well, there's poison injection and steel tornado. But poison injection is more of a DoT and steel tornado is more AoE.

I hope using 2H in PvE feels more significant, because I really don't like playing the same two weapon types on my toons.

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

raj72616a wrote: »

25k single target should be doable? but how is that comparable to 40k dps meta build?

Like you said, 25k is already above average... And that allows you to clear all content. And with buffs and DoTs it can be much more than that.
Whats the issue? Of course, meta build will always outdps unique snowflake setup. But if said setup is working and its owner enjoys it, then its not an problem, isnt it?

raj72616a · January 2017

the problem is that i read too much Berserk and expect that Greatsword should be competitive for pve dps lol

LadyNalcarya · January 2017

@raj72616a wrote: »

the problem is that i read too much Berserk and expect that Greatsword should be competitive for pve dps lol

Try Dark Souls then. In that game there's a special class of swords - ultra greatswords. Some of them are clearly inspired by Berserk.

On a serious note... Check the video above, you can actually pull good dps with it. It will be lower than with dual wiel+bow though.