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On the note of AP

bbman1214
bbman1214
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Alliance Points (ap) are the main way for pvpers to buy siege to continue attacking and such but they are also used for other things such as gear which imo is just insane. Multiple reasons for this.

If you are a average pvp player and make a fair amount of ap per hour lets say 30,000 as a average.
To siege a keep you will need stone trebuchets or stone ballistas for maximum damage (or you could use a ram and just die by oils) now these cost 1800ap and most likely you should have 10 or so on you or more... that's about 18000ap of your total gain per hour leaving you with 12000ap... but wait your total will go down a lot more when you factor in other costs such as repair kits for walls and fire ballistas and boiling oils,

Repair kits cost 300ap and a ton are needed to repair a wall to ensure the keep you just took or defended doesn't get flagged or taken.
Repair kits only restore 5k health of a wall and most walls on average have around 200k health. If you are repairing the keep on your own you would need 40 repair kits just for the outer wall not including inner which would add another 40! To repair a keep on your own you would need... not 1000ap not 5000ap but a entire 24000ap which is insane and just is not reasonable. You also get around per use 50ap (varying around 60 to 70ap) back which give you back 4000ap so in essence repairing a wall all by yourself waste your ap in seconds 20000ap just to repair a wall...

Now sieges such as fire ballista and boiling oil almost all the time give back your ap's and more worth on price due to the fact that they are the main player killers with siege.

Now back to how much ap you think your earning per hour...

30000ap - 18000ap - 20000ap = -8000ap

There is no profit in pvp with siege and the only way to get gear with ap is saving up and not buying anything in effect not helping your alliance unless you are just a zerg killer which earns tons of ap takes defended keeps easily which is few.

Now I also forgot to mention Forward Camps (fc)

fc's cost 20000 ap essentially 1000ap per player that spawns there... They are extremely important and their value is sometimes overlooked due to their pricepoint!

My proposal to help pvpers, ones who earn over 50000ap and those who earn 10000ap an hour would be two systems of ap. One that can only be spent on siege equipment and another which can be spent on gear. Another thing which pvpers hate and is at the moment the only way to make money is gambling with the rng in a gearbox. The price is being reduced by 75% from 50000ap which will help considerably but it will not help pvpers make anywhere near the amount of money pvers make. The last thing I would like to say is the end rewards for the campaign are utterly worthless! I spend on a 7 day campaign top of the leaderboard but my alliance did the worst what shall I get? 1 gold item 6250gold and some repair kits (not to mention the gold item is probably some trait or weapon that does not fit with the set, such as a healing staff of fury with the precise trait)...

What were you thinking when designing this? It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If you came near first place on a 30 day campaign as well as your alliance you would get 5 gold items around 25000gold and most likely repair kits. Still this is not benneficial over a 30 day period... People spend hours of their day trying to keep the first spot on the leaderboard and they don't get anything in return. Some pve farmers can make 50000+ gold in less then a hour. Their isn't any logic in this. Campaign rewards also need to be changed from all types of items such as armor, weapons, and jewelry to only gold jewelry. Purple is easy to get and blue is not worth it. Gold is what it should be by default. Every decision I have seen this game try to help pvpers make money has failed and needs help.

Pvpers need help making cash!

Help us ZOS you are our only hope!

  • zuto40
    zuto40
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    bbman1214 wrote: »
    Alliance Points (ap) are the main way for pvpers to buy siege to continue attacking and such but they are also used for other things such as gear which imo is just insane. Multiple reasons for this.

    If you are a average pvp player and make a fair amount of ap per hour lets say 30,000 as a average.
    To siege a keep you will need stone trebuchets or stone ballistas for maximum damage (or you could use a ram and just die by oils) now these cost 1800ap and most likely you should have 10 or so on you or more... that's about 18000ap of your total gain per hour leaving you with 12000ap... but wait your total will go down a lot more when you factor in other costs such as repair kits for walls and fire ballistas and boiling oils,

    Repair kits cost 300ap and a ton are needed to repair a wall to ensure the keep you just took or defended doesn't get flagged or taken.
    Repair kits only restore 5k health of a wall and most walls on average have around 200k health. If you are repairing the keep on your own you would need 40 repair kits just for the outer wall not including inner which would add another 40! To repair a keep on your own you would need... not 1000ap not 5000ap but a entire 24000ap which is insane and just is not reasonable. You also get around per use 50ap (varying around 60 to 70ap) back which give you back 4000ap so in essence repairing a wall all by yourself waste your ap in seconds 20000ap just to repair a wall...

    Now sieges such as fire ballista and boiling oil almost all the time give back your ap's and more worth on price due to the fact that they are the main player killers with siege.

    Now back to how much ap you think your earning per hour...

    30000ap - 18000ap - 20000ap = -8000ap

    There is no profit in pvp with siege and the only way to get gear with ap is saving up and not buying anything in effect not helping your alliance unless you are just a zerg killer which earns tons of ap takes defended keeps easily which is few.

    Now I also forgot to mention Forward Camps (fc)

    fc's cost 20000 ap essentially 1000ap per player that spawns there... They are extremely important and their value is sometimes overlooked due to their pricepoint!

    My proposal to help pvpers, ones who earn over 50000ap and those who earn 10000ap an hour would be two systems of ap. One that can only be spent on siege equipment and another which can be spent on gear. Another thing which pvpers hate and is at the moment the only way to make money is gambling with the rng in a gearbox. The price is being reduced by 75% from 50000ap which will help considerably but it will not help pvpers make anywhere near the amount of money pvers make. The last thing I would like to say is the end rewards for the campaign are utterly worthless! I spend on a 7 day campaign top of the leaderboard but my alliance did the worst what shall I get? 1 gold item 6250gold and some repair kits (not to mention the gold item is probably some trait or weapon that does not fit with the set, such as a healing staff of fury with the precise trait)...

    What were you thinking when designing this? It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If you came near first place on a 30 day campaign as well as your alliance you would get 5 gold items around 25000gold and most likely repair kits. Still this is not benneficial over a 30 day period... People spend hours of their day trying to keep the first spot on the leaderboard and they don't get anything in return. Some pve farmers can make 50000+ gold in less then a hour. Their isn't any logic in this. Campaign rewards also need to be changed from all types of items such as armor, weapons, and jewelry to only gold jewelry. Purple is easy to get and blue is not worth it. Gold is what it should be by default. Every decision I have seen this game try to help pvpers make money has failed and needs help.

    Pvpers need help making cash!

    Help us ZOS you are our only hope!

    earn more then 30k an hour, problem solved, L2P
    Stamblade- Legate
    Tank/Heals Templar- Sergeant
    Magic DK- Corporal
    Stam DK- Sergeant
    Stamplar- Corporal

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  • bbman1214
    bbman1214
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    I was giving an example for an average pvper... I earn a lot more then that
  • TBois
    TBois
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    Average players seems to not have that much interest in seiging, run up to a keep with a zerg and you see people end up light attacking the air like their in a zos pvp promo video
    PC/NA
    T-Bois (Stam Sorc since 1.4) - AD
    An Unsettling Snowball (Templar) - AD
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    Peti-T-Bois (Stamden) - AD
  • Skinzz
    Skinzz
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    Average pvper will gain minimum 20k an hour.
    Anybody got a group? LFG, anybody? Hello?
  • Sureshawt
    Sureshawt
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    I don't think they want us to be completely self sufficient through PvP.

    Not saying I agree with it but rather just the rationale behind it.
  • Stridig
    Stridig
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    It rally only matters if you are the kind of person that thinks you need to be rewarded on the first day. I consider myself an average PvPer and I have a few million AP saved up between my characters. Put some effort in if you want to be rewarded.
    Enemy to many
    Friend to all
  • Hulk_VI
    Hulk_VI
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    Seems like a L2P issue at this point
  • bbman1214
    bbman1214
    ✭✭
    I know how to gain AP I have gotten emperor once and pushed 3 times, I am just saying that you are not guaranteed anything through ap due to rng boxes and they cost a lot (prices are going down on pts which is good) im just saying we can't grind for them. I just want to find a way to help pvp... for the most part as I mentioned in my post that walls are so expencive to fix.... Now you don't see many good players repairing walls due to their high price. I just want to help find a way to make pvp more affordable for players.
  • Leandor
    Leandor
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    10 stone trebs will take you through 3 to 20 sieges depending on mileage. The "average pvper" is most likely running in an "average sized group" (12+). You may get in 5 to 10 rep kits on a door or a wall. It is not the same person who puts down camp, so a single player does one every 3 to 7 sieges, depending on how many others buck up.

    Your sums just don't match up. Even on a bad day, I go out with a delta profit of 20k to 50k AP, and I am certainly classified as an average pvper.

    That aside, I would love to get some more usefull and new sets in pvp that I can convert to gold. It's just your arguments are not convincing, OP.
  • Drummerx04
    Drummerx04
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    I average something like 3 siege weapons per keep take (sometimes I lose 0, other times I lose 10, etc). Coldfire siege drops from dolmens and siege repair is pretty cheap, so as long as I'm careful with them I can keep a few coldfire ballistas for defenses for a very long time.

    Reasonable Guild groups will earn something like 100k+ per night so all in all you should net a good profit.
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    Lilith Arujo - DC sorc tank/dps/healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Gryphon Heart, Grand Warlord
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