After more than a year in the game, I still get around on my base model 10k gold in game bought horse, which was all I could afford at the time I bought it, so I know I am not part of the problem.

They should just have it be like in SWTOR where the RnG crates can be sold on the "galactic trade network" (Auction house) for in game "credits" (Gold).

lordrichter wrote: »

Gems do nothing at all to address the problems I have with Crown Crates. It is still random. It stuff still costs more than the average price for about half the people. They lock stuff in the Crates so that it cannot be purchased directly, and I get stuff that I do not want for my efforts, even with Gems. The Crates provide a revenue stream that has nothing to do with the game, itself, which can lead to a disconnect between what is in the best interests of revenue and what is in the best interests of the game.

On this last item, we have (at best) only the promise and implied integrity of the studio that this is not going to be a problem. Personally, I don't trust ZOS and Bethesda as far as I can toss them. I don't work for them. I am their customer. My feeling is that it is in the customer's best interests if the studio is motivated to make a good game, and have that be the source of their revenue. If I worked for them, or if I was in charge of this stuff, I would feel differently, but I am a customer and my responsibility is not to ensure the financial success of ZOS and Bethesda.

No its not your responsibility to ensure the financial success of ZOS. If you like the game its in your interest to see them succeed. I support them with my sub, I buy things that are of a value to me. But value is very subjective. They aren't going to win either way. People take a moral stand against crates, ok good for them. Then when they release a new mount for 4500 crowns the others lose their minds. I can honestly say I've seen more atronach mounts than elks.

As of yet I have not seen a negative impact from crates. If they use a portion of that revenue to add to the game, or more importantly fix the game then I'm not going to complain about how they got the money to do so. Some people will gamble some will pay alot to get what they want. As none of the items offered are of any competitive advantage, or at least not much of one, I don't see a problem. I say at least not much of a competitive advantage because some people argue WW, Vamp bites and explain scrolls are p2w. Different topic and argument though.

I don't have a problem with them. So its not a problem for me

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

Let me just get out my salt repellent and put on my goggles before this (anagram alert!) hits the fan...

PSA:
If you buy crown crates, you are part of the reason ESO will continue lacking actual new content in the future. If nobody purchased the crates, then ZoS would not make money off of them, and they would have to come up with another way. Perhaps they would be forced to release new content in order to bring in revenue (either through direct purchase or subs).

So if you purchase the crates, you are sending a message that the crates are a viable way to earn revenue. It's just a business, and you play a crucial role letting the supplier know what you demand.

This post makes me wanna go spend more money on crown crates!

And all of you out there who say you will never spend a dime on them, I will do my part to buy your share too. #BecauseICan #Murica!

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Here's a crazy business idea . How about releasing quality content with patches and fixes monthly for a reasonable price . An attractive subscription model with plenty of perks adding to this great content . Quality customer service with a team of professionals to handle any and all problems 7 days a week . A security system to address any and all hacking with a stiff penalty of perma ban if caught and the same quality security protocol for gold sellers , buyers and bots .

Think it's crazy and not profitable to sustain a MMO in current times ? Take a gander at Eve .

Eve has a f2p option, a sub option and a cash shop. And due to the very nature of its foundation and game assets, it is isnanely easy to produce "content" in that game.

Please stop with the nonsensical comparisons.

lordrichter wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Gems do nothing at all to address the problems I have with Crown Crates. It is still random. It stuff still costs more than the average price for about half the people. They lock stuff in the Crates so that it cannot be purchased directly, and I get stuff that I do not want for my efforts, even with Gems. The Crates provide a revenue stream that has nothing to do with the game, itself, which can lead to a disconnect between what is in the best interests of revenue and what is in the best interests of the game.

On this last item, we have (at best) only the promise and implied integrity of the studio that this is not going to be a problem. Personally, I don't trust ZOS and Bethesda as far as I can toss them. I don't work for them. I am their customer. My feeling is that it is in the customer's best interests if the studio is motivated to make a good game, and have that be the source of their revenue. If I worked for them, or if I was in charge of this stuff, I would feel differently, but I am a customer and my responsibility is not to ensure the financial success of ZOS and Bethesda.

No its not your responsibility to ensure the financial success of ZOS. If you like the game its in your interest to see them succeed. I support them with my sub, I buy things that are of a value to me. But value is very subjective. They aren't going to win either way. People take a moral stand against crates, ok good for them. Then when they release a new mount for 4500 crowns the others lose their minds. I can honestly say I've seen more atronach mounts than elks.

No, it is not in my interest to see them succeed, especially if it comes at the expense of a successful game. Their success is the byproduct of them making a successful game, and that game might not be anything I am interested in.

Let's be clear on that subject, while we are here. For me, ESO succeeds when it becomes a better Elder Scrolls game, not when it becomes a better MMO game, or a better RPG game, or simply a better revenue generator. There are a ton of MMORPG games out there that are successful, by some definition, and only one of them has the unique property of being an Elder Scrolls game. If I just want to play a successful game, I can take my pick of the field. If I want to play a successful TES game, my options are much more limited.

An Elder Scrolls Online with a vibrant Crown Crate system dishing out flying rainbow spewing unicorn mounts to one in every 1000 players is not an indication of a successful Elder Scrolls game. Nothing that comes out of Crown Crates will be. It does not matter how much ZOS and Bethesda pull down in revenue. It does not matter how successful ZOS is as a studio. These things do not guarantee a successful Elder Scrolls game.

If any part of me wants to see ZOS be a successful studio, it is entirely because they made a successful Elder Scrolls MMO.

Stopnaggin wrote: »

As of yet I have not seen a negative impact from crates. If they use a portion of that revenue to add to the game, or more importantly fix the game then I'm not going to complain about how they got the money to do so. Some people will gamble some will pay alot to get what they want. As none of the items offered are of any competitive advantage, or at least not much of one, I don't see a problem. I say at least not much of a competitive advantage because some people argue WW, Vamp bites and explain scrolls are p2w. Different topic and argument though.

The impact from the Crown Crates requires perspective. The Crown Store is what is generating the negative impact, and Crown Crates are just the natural progression of that impact. The 4500 Crown Elk is also a natural progression of that impact.

You are not seeing a negative impact from Crown Crates because the Crown Crates are a negative impact.

These things are just the latest impacts, and there is no reason to assume ZOS will stop. There are many more pages left in their dog-eared and coffee-stained edition of "MMO Cash Shops for Dummies". (Not that they are dummies, mind you)

You have any numbers? Lost sales or profit. I don't see the impact. Game isn't less crowded, plenty of people riding those ugly atronach mounts. Why would they stop? If people want to buy crates or mounts that's their decision. Where's the impact? Can you not play without elks, crates or costumes?

As far as I know nothing in the crown store is necessary to enjoy the game. You can buy the base game for about $20 and get plenty of content for that amount. How many years has it been on console? Did you buy dlc or anything else from the cs? Well according to the OP you are part of the problem. How dare you support a company that gives you entertainment?

It's pretty simple if you don't approve of how they run their business. Dont buy from them. If that business model impacts you in such a way then don't play, or better yet keep playing use their servers and stick it to them. Plenty of games add things for cosmetic appeal, some behind crates some not. As long as they fix the game and keep producing content I'll be happy, so far no negative impact from crates that I have seen.
Again perspective, maybe different for you and for different reasons. Crown crates being your example negative impact for you, not for ZOS, or apperantly not for a lot of players.

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

you are sending a message that the crates are a viable way to earn revenue

Yes we are, & yes it is.

sooooooo.... I bought crates, I won the crate exclusive pet I really wanted.
I didn't get a storm mount & that's okay...
I did get some costume items that I wouldn't have bought but I will use them.

& I traded in the various crown potions for enough gems to buy a fabulous hat.
If the top prizes were something I was more interested in, I might open more crates!

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

Let me just get out my salt repellent and put on my goggles before this (anagram alert!) hits the fan...

PSA:
If you buy crown crates, you are part of the reason ESO will continue lacking actual new content in the future. If nobody purchased the crates, then ZoS would not make money off of them, and they would have to come up with another way. Perhaps they would be forced to release new content in order to bring in revenue (either through direct purchase or subs).

So if you purchase the crates, you are sending a message that the crates are a viable way to earn revenue. It's just a business, and you play a crucial role letting the supplier know what you demand.

Fully agree

GeneralFlogger wrote: »

I swear man, it seems to me that there are people out there who honestly believe that the devs should be our slaves over the next however many years just b/c they paid for the base game (prob after it dropped in price). The devs have to make money to keep the train rolling.

There are many people who like this game enough to spend disposable income on their hobby. Some others on this forum say these guys/girls are the problem, when in reality the ones spending the money are the ones supporting the continuation of the game.

Would you go to work, get paid for your first week then continue to work for free for the next 10 years?

Nobody is asking to have things for free. Quite the opposite, actually. We want to pay for things and get these exact things, directly, with no gamble.

You might notice that many people who oppose the crates are subscribers, long time players and people who are always excited for the next Crown Store showcases. We want to buy things directly, not participate on a RNG system using real money and hope for the best.

Edit: Really, it's weird how often people speak as if ESO wasn't monetized in any way and everything ever was completely free before the Crates and that the Crates are the only way ZOS can monetize the game. This is just false and I don't understand why the "you want everything for free" argument comes up so often, it doesn't match the reality the slightest.

summitxho wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

GeneralFlogger wrote: »

I swear man, it seems to me that there are people out there who honestly believe that the devs should be our slaves over the next however many years just b/c they paid for the base game (prob after it dropped in price). The devs have to make money to keep the train rolling.

There are many people who like this game enough to spend disposable income on their hobby. Some others on this forum say these guys/girls are the problem, when in reality the ones spending the money are the ones supporting the continuation of the game.

Would you go to work, get paid for your first week then continue to work for free for the next 10 years?

Nobody is asking to have things for free. Quite the opposite, actually. We want to pay for things and get these exact things, directly, with no gamble.

You might notice that many people who oppose the crates are subscribers, long time players and people who are always excited for the next Crown Store showcases. We want to buy things directly, not participate on a RNG system using real money and hope for the best.

I am a subscriber, and I am for the crates, also playing since PS4 launch. Taking a sample size from a forum where the people against crates will be MUCH louder than the people for is a skewed statistic. We all get some of you want to pay for items from the crown store instead of gambling (and you can, just not all which is a happy medium for all parties), that point has been driven home to death, but its not going to happen. I and many others like the excitement of the unknown, its obviously a tactic which creates revenue, its here and it is not destroying the game like so many have suggested. Evidence of this is all the fancy mounts I am seeing around the game now, its busy! Let the crown crates roll, just in time for my subscription renewal and more useless crowns to use up.

Some of you really need to get a hold of yourself and get a good dose of reality "We are part of the problem" lol alright sure, but some here are also part of the problem creating a divisive community. You know what I would appreciate? Living in a free country where I can spend my money how I like without other people telling me how to spend it and accuse me of ruining the game. Get of your high horses already.

I didn't say every subscriber is against the crates, I said the loud people who are against the crates are mostly subscribers.

Also, the number of atronach mounts are no proof of the health of the game, they are proof that many people bought many crates. That's all. Proof of the health of the game would be quality content releases, frequent balance and stability patches and reasonably priced items in the Crown Store for direct purchase. And this would have to go on for several months to be definitive proof of the health of the game. It is too early to tell, they were introduced a month ago, all we can do is compare it to previous games that did the same as ESO with the same people working on the same thing, which doesn't paint a nice picture.

It's fine if you enjoy it, but don't act as if it is the only way to monetize the game, as if it would be all free otherwise. Like if people who are against this kind of business plan want things for free. It is just false.

And yes, you ARE part of the problem, because if there were no players enabling this kind of business plan, the gaming industry wouldn't have gotten where it is today. Better saying, WE are part of the problem, because I was in your place before, thinking it does no harm, that it is okay, that the game won't suffer. "This game will be different", I would say. But it never was.

You spend your money the way you prefer, but there are consequences, and you can close your eyes and pretend you had nothing to do with the consequences, but that is also false. Without buyers, there are no sellers. It is just the reality of it, and I am sorry if you don't like it.

I do not hold any of this against you and other pro-crate people. I won't kick you from groups, throw mudballs at you or make any snarky comments regarding your choices. As I said, I've been on your place before too, so that would be hypocritical of me. But the way you spend your money still have consequences. Your choices have consequences. This is not something you can escape of. This is reality.

About dividing the community... Pro-Crates are as aggressive and rude as Anti-Crate people (note how the tone of your post, telling us to "get off our high horses", is aggressive), so we are all part of this issue in particular (the division of the community). There is a way for ZOS to almost completely eliminate opposition to the crates and solve this issue, however, which is selling the non-themed stuff when the related crate is off-season.

Not to mention, it is obvious by some of the answers from Pro-Crate people (not you) that trolling is more important than the health of the game. It is a shame, really.

summitxho wrote: »

I and many others like the excitement of the unknown, its obviously a tactic which creates revenue, its here and it is not destroying the game like so many have suggested. Evidence of this is all the fancy mounts I am seeing around the game now, its busy! Let the crown crates roll, just in time for my subscription renewal and more useless crowns to use up.

These things take time. The Crown Store has been out for almost 2 years now. In that time, the Crown Store has expanded considerably in scope and expense. I would say that the Crown Store is progressing nicely. It will be interesting to see where we are in two more years, and how people justify and explain where that is and how we got there.

For the record, I certainly don't consider any of the players to be "part of a problem".

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Pheefs wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

you are sending a message that the crates are a viable way to earn revenue

Yes we are, & yes it is.

sooooooo.... I bought crates, I won the crate exclusive pet I really wanted.
I didn't get a storm mount & that's okay...
I did get some costume items that I wouldn't have bought but I will use them.

& I traded in the various crown potions for enough gems to buy a fabulous hat.
If the top prizes were something I was more interested in, I might open more crates!

Wouldn't it be nice if you could buy these things you got directly, though? Knowing exactly how much you will need to pay and exactly what you will get by paying that amount?

Before the crates, that's how every single thing used to be sold. I like that system better.

Like a 4500 crown mount? Value is different for everyone. To some the crates have value, and that is ok. I bought 15, nothing special even though the contents may have been of equal value. If the gem exchange rate was better or you could trade stuff you didn't want, ie argonian skins with no Argonians. Not enough for me buy anymore, but for some there is enough value.

There are two things to consider about the Elk. First, at least you know that, once you pay 4500, you get that mount, 100% sure of it. No RNG, no catches. Second, the rise on the price of stuff that is sold through direct purchase is one of the effects of the introduction of RNG Boxes.

But if you could trade in the stuff you don't want, even collectibles, that would make the crates much easier to accept. It is a suggestion I gave many times before.

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

summitxho wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

GeneralFlogger wrote: »

I swear man, it seems to me that there are people out there who honestly believe that the devs should be our slaves over the next however many years just b/c they paid for the base game (prob after it dropped in price). The devs have to make money to keep the train rolling.

There are many people who like this game enough to spend disposable income on their hobby. Some others on this forum say these guys/girls are the problem, when in reality the ones spending the money are the ones supporting the continuation of the game.

Would you go to work, get paid for your first week then continue to work for free for the next 10 years?

Nobody is asking to have things for free. Quite the opposite, actually. We want to pay for things and get these exact things, directly, with no gamble.

You might notice that many people who oppose the crates are subscribers, long time players and people who are always excited for the next Crown Store showcases. We want to buy things directly, not participate on a RNG system using real money and hope for the best.

I am a subscriber, and I am for the crates, also playing since PS4 launch. Taking a sample size from a forum where the people against crates will be MUCH louder than the people for is a skewed statistic. We all get some of you want to pay for items from the crown store instead of gambling (and you can, just not all which is a happy medium for all parties), that point has been driven home to death, but its not going to happen. I and many others like the excitement of the unknown, its obviously a tactic which creates revenue, its here and it is not destroying the game like so many have suggested. Evidence of this is all the fancy mounts I am seeing around the game now, its busy! Let the crown crates roll, just in time for my subscription renewal and more useless crowns to use up.

Some of you really need to get a hold of yourself and get a good dose of reality "We are part of the problem" lol alright sure, but some here are also part of the problem creating a divisive community. You know what I would appreciate? Living in a free country where I can spend my money how I like without other people telling me how to spend it and accuse me of ruining the game. Get of your high horses already.

I didn't say every subscriber is against the crates, I said the loud people who are against the crates are mostly subscribers.

Also, the number of atronach mounts are no proof of the health of the game, they are proof that many people bought many crates. That's all. Proof of the health of the game would be quality content releases, frequent balance and stability patches and reasonably priced items in the Crown Store for direct purchase. And this would have to go on for several months to be definitive proof of the health of the game. It is too early to tell, they were introduced a month ago, all we can do is compare it to previous games that did the same as ESO with the same people working on the same thing, which doesn't paint a nice picture.

It's fine if you enjoy it, but don't act as if it is the only way to monetize the game, as if it would be all free otherwise. Like if people who are against this kind of business plan want things for free. It is just false.

And yes, you ARE part of the problem, because if there were no players enabling this kind of business plan, the gaming industry wouldn't have gotten where it is today. Better saying, WE are part of the problem, because I was in your place before, thinking it does no harm, that it is okay, that the game won't suffer. "This game will be different", I would say. But it never was.

You spend your money the way you prefer, but there are consequences, and you can close your eyes and pretend you had nothing to do with the consequences, but that is also false. Without buyers, there are no sellers. It is just the reality of it, and I am sorry if you don't like it.

I do not hold any of this against you and other pro-crate people. I won't kick you from groups, throw mudballs at you or make any snarky comments regarding your choices. As I said, I've been on your place before too, so that would be hypocritical of me. But the way you spend your money still have consequences. Your choices have consequences. This is not something you can escape of. This is reality.

About dividing the community... Pro-Crates are as aggressive and rude as Anti-Crate people (note how the tone of your post, telling us to "get off our high horses", is aggressive), so we are all part of this issue in particular (the division of the community). There is a way for ZOS to almost completely eliminate opposition to the crates and solve this issue, however, which is selling the non-themed stuff when the related crate is off-season.

Not to mention, it is obvious by some of the answers from Pro-Crate people (not you) that trolling is more important than the health of the game. It is a shame, really.

I sub, I couldnt care less about the crates. There are other ways to make money sure. What is so bad about crates? I mean you say they have consequences, how about the people that spent 4500 crowns for a mount? It was bought outright so no problems? Well why did the mount end up at 4500 crowns? How about the cs motifs, first 2200 crowns with 52 stones, this time 2000 crowns and 5 stones. That wasnt because of crates or pro/anti crate people. It's because people bought similar items before, from ZOS'S point of view why not see how far they can push?

So there are consequences for both sides of the argument. And yes I bought crates and both motifs. So I am part of the problem I guess. But so is everyone who spent any rlm in the crown store. I'm not going for the us and them thing. Greed is not one sides fault. Arguing against the crown crates is fine, but when it becomes some kind of moral crusade I'm done listening. It's a game, I work hard for my money and I spend it how I see fit. I don't criticize people for drinking, going to casino's or whatever they may do to relax and enjoy.

As far as the health of the game I think as of right now it's fine. More populated than I can remember before 1T, and crates haven't seem to run as many moral crusaders off as they would like people to think. For real it's pretty petty for someone to call out a group and say they are the reason for the doom of this game. If the game fails it won't be because of crates, it will from within, no new content, constant unfixed bugs, lag, nerfing and buffing the wrong skills and classes. None of this is under any of our control. Only time will tell if ESO will make the 10 year plan.

I'll explain. Do you have any previous experience with games that went from Buy-To-Play with Cash Shop business model to Free-To-Play with RNG Boxes business model? Because that's the direction ESO might very well be going, so if you have any previous experience with games that went through this same thing you probably know already what is so bad about the Crown Crates.

Shift in development focus. The introduction of RNG Boxes is a Free-To-Play Transition Strategy. This is actually a specialty of the person who was hired to do this, the implementation of strategies for the Free-To-Play transition (no, really, this is no secret, it is on her curriculum). When this strategy is adopted by a company, things change for the regular Cash Shop too: It most often comes with the introduction of things that were previously not locked behind paywalls (CS-Exclusive motifs), the increase of the price of items sold through direct purchase (Elk for 4500 Crowns) to make the boxes seem more attractive and a drop in quality of things sold through direct purchase.

Then we have the transition to Free-To-Play. If you ever played a Free-To-Play game, then of course you know how bad this model is for the health of this game. Less content is introduced, and of a lower quality. If it is already happening is debatable, but we did go from "One DLC every quarter!" to "Not every DLC will be big like Orsinium" and finally to "Not every quarterly update will be DLC".

Crates were introduced one month ago. They were planned for a while now, since the person hired to introduce them was hired early 2016 and the "sets of mounts" were datamined mid 2015. But there has been only one month for us to show them if it is a business model we support or not. We show our support by buying them, and we show that that's not what we want for the game by, well, not buying them.

So it comes down to what you want for the game, I guess. It will affect me even if I don't buy them, of course, because if the playerbase decides that this is indeed the business model they want and I stay in the game I will suffer the same consequences that the Pro-Crate people will, which is having a game that has the issues that F2P games have.

Taking your cassino or drinking example... I don't care if people do that either, unless it is affecting me. And the playerbase being fine with the change in the business model does affect me, since I also play the game.

Let's hope ZOS will do something unprecedented in the industry of MMOs and put all the money they make with the crates back into the game instead of on the development of more crate seasons (other than the three other seasons we know are coming). But history isn't on their side.

Stormbeebe wrote: »

I am not really sure why in the gaming universe so many players expect to get hours and hours of enjoyment from a product and not have to pay for it. Nothing in life is free. For $60 or even cheaper now you can buy the boxed game and if you play the game through without even going through the DLC's you have literally hundreds of hours of entertainment. Compare that to a movie ticket that is $12-$15 for maybe 2hours or a DVD at $20 for two hours. We willingly buy movie tickets and dvd's and never question why they cost so much for just a few hours of entertainment yet gamers scream at the top of their lungs if a gaming company asks them to pay a few dollars more for more entertainment.

If you really hate the FTP business model then be an entrepreneur and come up with something better. Gamers have rejected the subscription based model in all but very few games and so companies really struggle especially in this niche genre to maintain a successful game and community for more then a few months. It really isn't that outrageous of an idea to charge for entertainment. I've been gaming for longer then some here have been alive and I will gladly pay for quality entertainment. There are plenty like me that feel and do the same. I think the problem is not the people who pay to support the company and employees that create the entertainment but rather those who feel like thousands of hours of continued development is only worth an investment of $60. Somehow these players do not realize that developers who go to work everyday to provide you entertainment actually have bills to pay and children to feed.

I agree with your first statements, however this is buy to play not free to play, and tons of people buy the dlc that should be support in itself, subbing is fine but they will make more if people buy dlc as well so lets not pretend just because some of you sub gives you a right to judge others for not subbing. Also the reason why those nich games did not do well is because they tried to copy other games instead of coming out with anything with depth and a creative mmorpg world.

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I agree with your first statements, however this is buy to play not free to play, and tons of people buy the dlc that should be support in itself, subbing is fine but they will make more if people buy dlc as well so lets not pretend just because some of you sub gives you a right to judge others for not subbing. Also the reason why those nich games did not do well is because they tried to copy other games instead of coming out with anything with depth and a creative mmorpg world.

I am not judging anyone for not subbing. It is all up to each person how they spend their excess cash. I just get annoyed when I read pages of complaints from people who don't want to pay for more content. Almost all games on the market that you pay a box fee for more then pay for themselves with the amount of content provide for the price IMO. I think people tend to get too immersed in the worlds and forget this is entertainment/hobby. Anyone passionate about a hobby or a particular kind of entertainment pays for it from concert tickets to charter fishing trips whatever floats your boat. It is just silly to me that so many gamers think that $60 entitles them to years of content and endless free updates/cosmetic items that take real money to develop and implement into the games. Bottom line is the gaming industry just like any other entertainment industry is for profit and they are entitled and in fact obligated to make profits to survive.