Did we raid too much, or what was the problem?

OrphanHelgen · January 2017

I understood there was some issues in pvp and all but..

.. you realise if you nerf one thing like for example proc sets cant crit, then there is no need to nerf other dmg right?
Magicka sustain will be less since you cant stack siphon and drain, crit is nerfed and even the trap dmg, destro ult is nerfed, jesus beam nerfed, and just to be sure, you even nerf standard of might as well. Was it really that big of a problem? There is something called group dps, and that will be massively decreased, meaning it clearly was some problem in pve end game. I'm actually interested to know what the problem was. Honestly, I think when the trial "reworks" and Vmol got created, you didnt expect players to dominate those trials with hardmodes, no death and high scores this fast, and forum already screaming for new challenges. But nerfing dmg and increasing hp, is a very poor way to give challenge, since it gives the opposite of a progression feeling.

Don't get me wrong, we will still be able to do damage, but thats not the point. The point here, from an end game raiders perspective, is the lack of progression and a reason to keep players like this in the game.

I have tried to ignore all the casual gamer's opinion so far, but its just too many of you. Too many roleplayers who want to log in one hour a day for fun and watch his new costume and play in his house. Doing quests and emotes, sit on a chair and what not. Well, you guys are clearly the reason eso are making money it seems. Looking from a casual roleplayer gamer perspective, this patch is amazing. And by looking at the amount of crowns that will be bought, I totally understand why end game raiding have zero priority atm.

modaretto · January 2017

It's a developer l2p issue

Wollust · January 2017

To be fair though, the DPS has increased significantly the last few patches. I don't see anything wrong with combating the power creep by nerfing certain things tbh.

But yeah, new raiding content would be much appreciated.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · January 2017

We flew to close to the sun!

SublimeSparo · January 2017

At least we have houses to afk in while waiting for new content?

vyndral13preub18_ESO · January 2017

SublimeSparo wrote: »

At least we have houses to afk in while waiting for new content?

Housing is content! Now do the couple of quest needed to unlock your apartment and stand in it like a man! Content completed!

hon.king.kirbyneb18_ESO · January 2017

I playing since beta but now is the moment i think so say Goodbye eso

Wifeaggro13 · January 2017

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I understood there was some issues in pvp and all but..

.. you realise if you nerf one thing like for example proc sets cant crit, then there is no need to nerf other dmg right?
Magicka sustain will be less since you cant stack siphon and drain, crit is nerfed and even the trap dmg, destro ult is nerfed, jesus beam nerfed, and just to be sure, you even nerf standard of might as well. Was it really that big of a problem? There is something called group dps, and that will be massively decreased, meaning it clearly was some problem in pve end game. I'm actually interested to know what the problem was. Honestly, I think when the trial "reworks" and Vmol got created, you didnt expect players to dominate those trials with hardmodes, no death and high scores this fast, and forum already screaming for new challenges. But nerfing dmg and increasing hp, is a very poor way to give challenge, since it gives the opposite of a progression feeling.

Don't get me wrong, we will still be able to do damage, but thats not the point. The point here, from an end game raiders perspective, is the lack of progression and a reason to keep players like this in the game.

I have tried to ignore all the casual gamer's opinion so far, but its just too many of you. Too many roleplayers who want to log in one hour a day for fun and watch his new costume and play in his house. Doing quests and emotes, sit on a chair and what not. Well, you guys are clearly the reason eso are making money it seems. Looking from a casual roleplayer gamer perspective, this patch is amazing. And by looking at the amount of crowns that will be bought, I totally understand why end game raiding have zero priority atm.

Barbie doll players don't last for ever . It happens to all the scam games. Eso will go the route of Swtor but worse. At least you can get their mounts by completing raid content. Th bottom line is its cheaper to develop this garbage content and sell it to the no sub crowd then make content for the people who actually play the game. It's great for quarterly sales reports but bad for long term gaming . The barbie doll crowd is actually more volatile of a player base then the more player and they lose interest very quick.

Shad0wfire99 · January 2017

Nah, it's a "we're lazy af, so let's do blanket nerfs instead of trying to focus."

Pallio · January 2017

They want us to stop raiding and focus on decorating our houses.

Komma · January 2017

Soft caps could fix all their issues. I doubt I will be playing by the time they figure that out.

Koolio · January 2017

Wollust wrote: »

To be fair though, the DPS has increased significantly the last few patches. I don't see anything wrong with combating the power creep by nerfing certain things tbh.

But yeah, new raiding content would be much appreciated.

Dps is supposed to be progressing as you play longer. We want to be stronger then 2 months ago. What's the point of this game without getting stronger. I just hit a good spot for pve Dps and now I'll be where I was last patch. That's a problem because of the constant nerfs I can't progress. Nerf damage 5% increase Cp for the 5% buff. But after a year you'll still be doing the same damage. Maybe in a few years you'll actually be stronger.

alephthiago · January 2017

hon.king.kirbyneb18_ESO wrote: »

I playing since beta but now is the moment i think so say Goodbye eso

Do you have tempering alloys, rosins, wax and flowers? Hit me up ingame please.

dday3six · January 2017

Komma wrote: »

Soft caps could fix all their issues. I doubt I will be playing by the time they figure that out.

People keep saying that, but they never want to demonstrate how it actually would. Seems more like they just want play Magicka builds who aren't punished by stacking into Stamina so they can have the best of both worlds.

DPShiro · January 2017

Too many players completed vMoL (HM) and they can't stand more people in the skin

RIP players who are progressing it now, and don't complete it before the massive nerfs.

Wollust · January 2017

Koolio wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

To be fair though, the DPS has increased significantly the last few patches. I don't see anything wrong with combating the power creep by nerfing certain things tbh.

But yeah, new raiding content would be much appreciated.

Dps is supposed to be progressing as you play longer. We want to be stronger then 2 months ago. What's the point of this game without getting stronger. I just hit a good spot for pve Dps and now I'll be where I was last patch. That's a problem because of the constant nerfs I can't progress. Nerf damage 5% increase Cp for the 5% buff. But after a year you'll still be doing the same damage. Maybe in a few years you'll actually be stronger.

If you don't understand the implications of too much power creep there is no helping you.

RazorCaltrops · January 2017

In a nutshell: "we didn't expect that players would achieve their goals this fast, and instead of bringing more content for progress let's nerf the damage"

RazorCaltrops · January 2017

DPShiro wrote: »

Too many players completed vMoL (HM) and they can't stand more people in the skin

RIP players who are progressing it now, and don't complete it before the massive nerfs.

Yes, but the first HM clear took nearly 5 months. Then other groups cleared it, then the leaderboards filled with HM groups (on PC at least) which means the community progressed as intended, otherwise what's the point of raiding if people don't progress ?

Developers chose the lazy way imo.

kylewwefan · January 2017

It is much different on PS4. Only a few groups are completing VetMaw and many of the same players are in those groups. At least what you see on leaderboards. Also on the other trials you see many of the same people all throughout it.

RazorCaltrops · January 2017

kylewwefan wrote: »

It is much different on PS4. Only a few groups are completing VetMaw and many of the same players are in those groups. At least what you see on leaderboards. Also on the other trials you see many of the same people all throughout it.

I know what you mean i'm a console player too, but it's not vastly different.

DHale · January 2017

Power creep is good it's part of a 3600 cp tree. There is nothing wrong with it. I don't want to spend two hours in a dungeon rezzing pugglies I want to face roll a vet dungeon in 15 to 20 minutes. Then run to the undaunted chest and get my prosperous shoulder... or my training one.

darthsithis · January 2017

Honestly though, I find it more immersive when my character gets stronger over time. These kind of nerfs pull me out of the game and onto the forums, which is probably the opposite of what they want. Haven't even signed on since the update just been here talking.

Decado · January 2017

I was speaking to some friends reading the patch notes yesterday and I said to them I see very little reason to do PvE this patch I've had my fun there I think for me it's time to switch to PvP and trading for a while with the occasional PvE thrown in, maybe in a few patches that'll change around again, who knows?

I really fell sorry for the people who can't do the same and switch between to keep things fresh anyone who's purely a PvE player who likes to raid this is not a good patch

disintegr8 · January 2017

Do the changes mean that people who could solo dungeons will have to 2 man them and those that could 2 man them will have to 3 man them, etc?

I think most of these nerfs are brought about due to players who have been in the game 5 minutes, used the festivals to fast track to level 50 (without learning anything) and then complaining that everything is too hard.

It will be interesting to see how much of the nerfing you can make up with the additional CP you will be able to use with the cap going to 600. Putting more points into reducing cost or increasing damage might make up some of the shortfall for those of us that can use 600cp..

For me I expect this will simply make PVP harder as my DK's won't be able to self heal as much and my templar will deal less damage. Guess I'll have to stick to being a stam NB, get faster internet and then perfect animation cancelling if I want to kill anyone.

OrphanHelgen · January 2017

Decado wrote: »

I was speaking to some friends reading the patch notes yesterday and I said to them I see very little reason to do PvE this patch I've had my fun there I think for me it's time to switch to PvP and trading for a while with the occasional PvE thrown in, maybe in a few patches that'll change around again, who knows?

I really fell sorry for the people who can't do the same and switch between to keep things fresh anyone who's purely a PvE player who likes to raid this is not a good patch

Thanks man for the understanding. And all of others as well. Its nice to not be alone with this frustration. Also, even if we wanted to go for pvp for a few month, we would be put behind a lot when coming back to raiding.

Eleusian · January 2017

kylewwefan wrote: »

It is much different on PS4. Only a few groups are completing VetMaw and many of the same players are in those groups. At least what you see on leaderboards. Also on the other trials you see many of the same people all throughout it.

Kinda Laughable looking at the leaderboards and it's 20 or so players on Alts filling it on top spots each week. This games way to extreme ez or extreme challenging. Hell let's share play my VMoL HM complete.

Bobby_V_Rockit · January 2017

Wollust wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

To be fair though, the DPS has increased significantly the last few patches. I don't see anything wrong with combating the power creep by nerfing certain things tbh.

But yeah, new raiding content would be much appreciated.

Dps is supposed to be progressing as you play longer. We want to be stronger then 2 months ago. What's the point of this game without getting stronger. I just hit a good spot for pve Dps and now I'll be where I was last patch. That's a problem because of the constant nerfs I can't progress. Nerf damage 5% increase Cp for the 5% buff. But after a year you'll still be doing the same damage. Maybe in a few years you'll actually be stronger.

If you don't understand the implications of too much power creep there is no helping you.

Why is power creep bad?

redspecter23 · January 2017

Making players weaker is reverse progression. It's not fun. It makes me feel like I'm wasting my time in game progressing myself between updates and makes me not even want to bother running content that is suddenly harder than it was a few weeks prior to an update.

I'm having loads of fun with housing on PTS so that will be a distraction for a while, but in the back of my mind I'll be wondering how ZOS wants to nerf me next update and whether it's worth it to stick around to find out.

S1ipperyJim · January 2017

Wollust wrote: »

To be fair though, the DPS has increased significantly the last few patches. I don't see anything wrong with combating the power creep by nerfing certain things tbh.

But yeah, new raiding content would be much appreciated.

Power increase is expected otherwise why would we have the CP system, ZOS are further increasing the CP cap this patch so why then nerf damage and sustain to counteract the effect of high CP.

bigted209 · January 2017

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

To be fair though, the DPS has increased significantly the last few patches. I don't see anything wrong with combating the power creep by nerfing certain things tbh.

But yeah, new raiding content would be much appreciated.

Power increase is expected otherwise why would we have the CP system, ZOS are further increasing the CP cap this patch so why then nerf damage and sustain to counteract the effect of high CP.

It's the illusion of progression. "Here, have 39 more CP to invest to make your characters stronger"....yet behind the fine print, nerfs for almost every class/combination. Hell, after all is said and done, things may just be nearly the same

Syrani · January 2017

I agree with you OP, and I am a bit disheartened in the lack of end game trials, or even full blown raids which I had hoped we would eventually get. As it currently is, I am SO tired of doing AA and Hel Ra. I have run those many times since they first came out and I don't want to do them any more. If they had had more bosses per trial, that might have made it more interesting. Revamping their difficulty/nerfing our damage is not the same thing as new content. Sanctum is just ....uggggg. I really don't like that place. It's so trash heavy, and there are a few places where you are so cramped up that the poison just becomes super annoying. I think they started heading in the right direction with vMoL, and I hope they give us something similar soon, hopefully with twice the amount of bosses to give it a bit longer shelf life, especially if they only plan to do like one a year. Although if we only get one a year, I may just go back to WoW. The thing I like the most about ESO over WoW is the combat system, but the only thing I am really interested in is raiding, which WoW does well.