White wabbit wrote: »

Needs a cool down

Yeah the 4 seconds cooldown is an extremely short cooldown and you can put a lot of pressure with that 5/6k viper sting dmg even if you run heavy armor, plus with proc sets an heavy armor guy can hits really hard by just light attacking lol.

A huge part of why pvp was screaming for changes in proc sets - viper's sting.

Instead they make some other change and don't even include one of the worst offenders.

It cant crit. So -50 to 70% damage.

I am glad ZoS doesn't listen to anyone here.

When you make untruthful posts it reduces our credibility. Viper was significantly nerfed on paper and how it plays out on pts I don't know you don't know. No one knows, test things before you make comments please.

Dear good sirs

Due to moderation and censorship i am required to repost my thoughts in a more constructive manner. So let me just indicate without raising my voice i duly disagree with your assessment. Removing the crit from ALL proc sets reduces my dmg (usually in pve as well as pvp) by a subtle 25% for which im sure your fond. If you insist on continuing down the path of advocating further destruction of all proc sets ill be forced to challenge you all to fisticuffs! Sadly, my proc sets are now garbage, so i suggest we use latex gloves and winter mittens !! Have at you scoundrel!

Crit was NOT the problem in PVP where Everyone had a Slip Ton of Crit Resistance. This just nerfs PVE.

To the point however the Burst sets were untouched basically in the ways that matter. Stacking procs.

At least they fixed one part where it was firing on an unintended fashion. It wont make any difference in PVP. No reason to change sets at all for those that have it equipped..

Kutsuu wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

dotme wrote: »

I don't know - Seems like in PVP, someone always wants something nerfed - Usually whatever appears most often in their recap. Eliminate one thing from the recap, and the next-most-often-seen cause will then be the new "OP" thing that needs nerfed. Where does it end?

How about a set that has a 5-piece bonus of a 50% (or x%) chance of reflecting a set proc hit right back at the caster? Seems more interesting than trying to knock down whatever is doing the most damage on any given day.

Viper's Sting is way too strong though and can proc twice in a second. 6-8k damage twice, when only using 1or 2 skills, if you played PvP you'd understand completely, trust me.

There is no double proc bug with Viper. That was only with Selene. Just because you see Viper more than once in your death recap doesn't mean it happened in 1 second - there are no timestamps in the death recap.

Also, those 6-8k hits were only with crits and a 1.0+ crit modifier from pure crit builds. That's going away. Noncrit the max you'll see is around 4-4.5k against fully penetrated light armor.

Had it show up on my death recap from the same player shouldn't proc that quick , basically two free hits

Berenhir wrote: »

It cant crit. So -50 to 70% damage.

I am glad ZoS doesn't listen to anyone here.

It doesn't matter really. Everyone in cyrodil is obviously running more than 2k critical resistance and it's literally pointless removing crits from every kind of proc sets because it's the same thing. The thing is that you can't do 6-7k dmg 100% proc every 4 seconds, you're an easy oneshot for every stamblade and a very very good burst for every tank or off tank pvp build. I tried 2 selene 5 br 5 viper on my stam dk with high crit resistance and so on and i wasn't taking any dmg dealing over 6k viper sting plus selene proc. So in fight you basically do more than 50% of the dmg with viper's sting and proc sets.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Viper's Sting is way too strong though and can proc twice in a second. 6-8k damage twice, when only using 1or 2 skills, if you played PvP you'd understand completely, trust me.

I'm 90% PVP, 10% PVE so I know what you're saying. But viper does not proc twice per second - I'm not sure why you said that. It's once every 4 seconds and with the crit change it's only going to hit for 3-4K max (Battle spirit reduces the stated damage in Cyrodiil). Against a sorc with shields or a tank build, that's not going to even register.

I've run vipers on my Stam NB. Barely makes a dent on most players. It doesn't hit nearly as hard as a bomber with Soul Tether and Eye of Flame. That combo kills me multiple times a day. Radiant Destruction hits me really hard too, especially when targeted by multiple templars running as a group. I'm not wishing for those to be nerfed though. My NB is a glass cannon and that's just how it goes.

Point is - Whatever is available to other players is also available to me if I choose to build something like them. I could build a bomber if I wanted to, just as you could build a stam-based proc-set build. It's all about how people choose to play the game IMO.

We'll see how it plays out as people start to work with in on the PTS I guess...

Brrrofski wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

dotme wrote: »

I don't know - Seems like in PVP, someone always wants something nerfed - Usually whatever appears most often in their recap. Eliminate one thing from the recap, and the next-most-often-seen cause will then be the new "OP" thing that needs nerfed. Where does it end?

How about a set that has a 5-piece bonus of a 50% (or x%) chance of reflecting a set proc hit right back at the caster? Seems more interesting than trying to knock down whatever is doing the most damage on any given day.

Viper's Sting is way too strong though and can proc twice in a second. 6-8k damage twice, when only using 1or 2 skills, if you played PvP you'd understand completely, trust me.

There is no double proc bug with Viper. That was only with Selene. Just because you see Viper more than once in your death recap doesn't mean it happened in 1 second - there are no timestamps in the death recap.

Also, those 6-8k hits were only with crits and a 1.0+ crit modifier from pure crit builds. That's going away. Noncrit the max you'll see is around 4-4.5k against fully penetrated light armor.

Had it show up on my death recap from the same player shouldn't proc that quick , basically two free hits

Yeh, I've had it twice in a gank.

Also had it third place on my kill feed with no other attacks from said person. So on top of being a joke, it's also bugged. Good stuff!

Viper hits first when it procs on an attack, so if the Viper proc kills you the actual attack will not connect and will not show up in the death recap.

Why the hell do all of you think that you can negate all critical damage with impen. You can reduce about 50% against most players so a crit still deals additional damage.

BohnT wrote: »

Why the hell do all of you think that you can negate all critical damage with impen. You can reduce about 50% against most players so a crit still deals additional damage.

Yeah exactly. Even if someone has the max 3300 crit resist (not common except transmutation users), I still have a ~50% critical multiplier against them on my NB. More often people have between 1500 and 2500 crit resist, meaning I have roughly a 65-80% crit multiplier against them. This is how Viper can hit upwards of 7-8k damage when it crits.

Kutsuu wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

dotme wrote: »

I don't know - Seems like in PVP, someone always wants something nerfed - Usually whatever appears most often in their recap. Eliminate one thing from the recap, and the next-most-often-seen cause will then be the new "OP" thing that needs nerfed. Where does it end?

How about a set that has a 5-piece bonus of a 50% (or x%) chance of reflecting a set proc hit right back at the caster? Seems more interesting than trying to knock down whatever is doing the most damage on any given day.

Viper's Sting is way too strong though and can proc twice in a second. 6-8k damage twice, when only using 1or 2 skills, if you played PvP you'd understand completely, trust me.

There is no double proc bug with Viper. That was only with Selene. Just because you see Viper more than once in your death recap doesn't mean it happened in 1 second - there are no timestamps in the death recap.

Also, those 6-8k hits were only with crits and a 1.0+ crit modifier from pure crit builds. That's going away. Noncrit the max you'll see is around 4-4.5k against fully penetrated light armor.

Had it show up on my death recap from the same player shouldn't proc that quick , basically two free hits

White wabbit wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

dotme wrote: »

I don't know - Seems like in PVP, someone always wants something nerfed - Usually whatever appears most often in their recap. Eliminate one thing from the recap, and the next-most-often-seen cause will then be the new "OP" thing that needs nerfed. Where does it end?

How about a set that has a 5-piece bonus of a 50% (or x%) chance of reflecting a set proc hit right back at the caster? Seems more interesting than trying to knock down whatever is doing the most damage on any given day.

Viper's Sting is way too strong though and can proc twice in a second. 6-8k damage twice, when only using 1or 2 skills, if you played PvP you'd understand completely, trust me.

There is no double proc bug with Viper. That was only with Selene. Just because you see Viper more than once in your death recap doesn't mean it happened in 1 second - there are no timestamps in the death recap.

Also, those 6-8k hits were only with crits and a 1.0+ crit modifier from pure crit builds. That's going away. Noncrit the max you'll see is around 4-4.5k against fully penetrated light armor.

Had it show up on my death recap from the same player shouldn't proc that quick , basically two free hits

The death recap shows the last attacks that contributed to your health bar hitting zero. It's very common to have disconnects in combat for several seconds at a time, that can result in you seeing, for example, Viper's Sting, Ambush, Viper's Sting, Surprise attack in succession in your death recap. Since the death recap doesn't provide timestamps you might think it double proc'd... when they actually had a 4 second delay between those two attacks that each proc'd Viper.

Nobody has posted combat log evidence of Viper double proccing, unlike Selene. There is no evidence to support complaints that it can double proc other than people misunderstanding what they see in the death recap. Yet another in dozens of cases of the death recap creating mass confusion. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308828/death-recap-needs-an-update#latest

Youre making a lot of assumptions about their experiences that they havent elaborated on.

Aldenn wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Why the hell do all of you think that you can negate all critical damage with impen. You can reduce about 50% against most players so a crit still deals additional damage.

50% reduced dmg from crits attacks as you said (IF it's calculated ofc) it's a lot of reduced dmg. Viper non-crit hits for a ton of damage (about 5/6k non crits even more), you don't need even to crit man it hits so hard. Removing crits won't solve all problems of proc sets, it's quite obvious c'mon. Furthermore it's 5/6k 100% proc every 4 seconds as i said on previous posts, don't forget it.

Yea i know but it's a first change the beginning of a long way to balance this set. I was just salty about the same false argument about crits over and over again