Why is a staff getting a taunt added in? New garbage staff tank builds?

Wifeaggro13 · January 2017

exeeter702 wrote: »

Effective and durable magicka tanks. Incredible change that adds more to the game.

You already don't need a sword and board tank for 95% of the content its already dps with a taunt in light armror. It's just not what the tanking community was asking for.

[Edit to remove bait]

UrQuan · January 2017

The other nice thing about this is that it's a taunt (a ranged one at that) that doesn't cost any resources, and doesn't rely on a specific set... I'd still use S&B for my bread and butter taunting, but this could be really really useful. Between that and being able to pick which resource you're using for blocking by swapping bars, this could actually make magicka tanks pretty OP.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Because everyone who tanks as magic, doesn't want to be forced to use sword and board. It's pretty dumb if they didn't do this.

Undaunted was the magic taunt but it's not accessible until after many undaunted progression

UrQuan · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Because everyone who tanks as magic, doesn't want to be forced to use sword and board. It's pretty dumb if they didn't do this.

Undaunted was the magic taunt but it's not accessible until after many undaunted progression

Don't forget that the Undaunted taunt also costs a significant amount of magicka, while a heavy attack frost staff taunt actually replenishes magicka...

It almost makes the Undaunted taunt obsolete. If it didn't take time to charge a heavy attack I'd pretty much say there was no point to the Undaunted one anymore.

Vaoh · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Because everyone who tanks as magic, doesn't want to be forced to use sword and board. It's pretty dumb if they didn't do this.

Undaunted was the magic taunt but it's not accessible until after many undaunted progression

Because not every Ice Staff build wants to become a tank?

Not even to mention that all Ice Staff PvE DPS builds just became useless. Heavy Attack will taunt the boss and possibly get your whole trial group killed.

Why should a stick of wood provide as much defense passively as a giant shield? If you want big defense, grab a shield. That's how things have always worked in most all games, not just ESO.

Very stupid change.

DoccEff · January 2017

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Because everyone who tanks as magic, doesn't want to be forced to use sword and board. It's pretty dumb if they didn't do this.

Undaunted was the magic taunt but it's not accessible until after many undaunted progression

Don't forget that the Undaunted taunt also costs a significant amount of magicka, while a heavy attack frost staff taunt actually replenishes magicka...

It almost makes the Undaunted taunt obsolete. If it didn't take time to charge a heavy attack I'd pretty much say there was no point to the Undaunted one anymore.

That too. U can tell who doesn't tank or play magic often. Especially with the heavy magic sets

Vaoh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Because everyone who tanks as magic, doesn't want to be forced to use sword and board. It's pretty dumb if they didn't do this.

Undaunted was the magic taunt but it's not accessible until after many undaunted progression

Because not every Ice Staff build wants to become a tank?

Not even to mention that all Ice Staff PvE DPS builds just became useless. Heavy Attack will taunt the boss and possibly get your whole trial group killed.

Why should a stick of wood provide as much defense passively as a giant shield? If you want big defense, grab a shield. That's how things have always worked in most all games, not just ESO.

Very stupid change.

@Vaoh

So ur saying that only sword and board should be tank and that it makes better sense that light, fire and ice in addition to bow, dual wield, and all other 2 hand should just be dps.

I actually hoped that something other than the healing staff would be added as well for healing. At least tanks have more options.

driosketch · January 2017

There is already a magicka taunt from the undaunted line. Giving ice staff a auto taunt on heavy attack seems foolhardy at best.

UrQuan · January 2017

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

So you don't see the benefits of regenerating stamina while blocking with your staff, and then swapping to S&B so you can regenerate magicka while blocking with your S&B? Or the benefits of a ranged taunt that replenishes resources instead of costing resources?

Tanking with only staves will be garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons. Tanking with S&B on one bar and a frost staff on the other will likely become the new tanking meta.

UrQuan · January 2017

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

Nyghthowler · January 2017

Abeille wrote: »

Oh, oh wait, nobody said it yet?

They are making Ice Staff into a defensive weapon because Warden is coming, and it is a defensive class with frost skills

If that is the case, which I severely doubt, they should have waited to make this change until they put the class in game.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

How is it a problem?

Healing pulls aggro, a lot of dps pulls aggro and some tanks don't even taunt.

Now the use of the staff allows a ping pong effect.
At worse when ppl are trying to taunt or kite and slow adds.

Tryxus · January 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

So you don't see the benefits of regenerating stamina while blocking with your staff, and then swapping to S&B so you can regenerate magicka while blocking with your S&B? Or the benefits of a ranged taunt that replenishes resources instead of costing resources?

Tanking with only staves will be garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons. Tanking with S&B on one bar and a frost staff on the other will likely become the new tanking meta.

That taunt is the one thing I don't agree with.

I love the changes they made to Frost Staves, and they open up a lot of new possibilities in Cyro.

But in PvE, Frost Staff DPSers are now at risk of taunting the boss. I'm currently using a Master's Ice Staff for both PvP and PvE, since I haven't been lucky enough to obtain a Fire Staff from either arena or an Aether Staff. And now I'm at risk for using it in vet trials due to the taunt they added to it.

Personally, I think they should get rid of the taunt and revert back to the Damage Shield we had (make it stronger maybe?) or have Frost Heavy attacks snare (or remove snares from the caster?) so that the weapon still has useful tanking abilities without compromising the DPSers

UrQuan · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

How is it a problem?

Healing pulls aggro, a lot of dps pulls aggro and some tanks don't even taunt.

Now the use of the staff allows a ping pong effect.
At worse when ppl are trying to taunt or kite and slow adds.

It's a problem because healing and DPS don't pull aggro from a taunted enemy, but taunts do. Nobody should be taunting other than the tank.

And tanks who don't taunt aren't tanks, pure and simple. That's like a healer who doesn't heal. Or a DPS who doesn't do damage. If you're not doing the primary job of your role, then you're not that role.

But again, it's only a problem of educating people who don't know that it taunts, or who don't know what a taunt is.

Wifeaggro13 · January 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

How is it a problem?

Healing pulls aggro, a lot of dps pulls aggro and some tanks don't even taunt.

Now the use of the staff allows a ping pong effect.
At worse when ppl are trying to taunt or kite and slow adds.

It's a problem because healing and DPS don't pull aggro from a taunted enemy, but taunts do. Nobody should be taunting other than the tank.

And tanks who don't taunt aren't tanks, pure and simple. That's like a healer who doesn't heal. Or a DPS who doesn't do damage. If you're not doing the primary job of your role, then you're not that role.

But again, it's only a problem of educating people who don't know that it taunts, or who don't know what a taunt is.

you dont even need tanks in this watered down meta. all you need is the taunt and now you dont even need that because it will attached to your heavy attack. Great Job Worbel you just isolated the role out of viability completely

UrQuan · January 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

So you don't see the benefits of regenerating stamina while blocking with your staff, and then swapping to S&B so you can regenerate magicka while blocking with your S&B? Or the benefits of a ranged taunt that replenishes resources instead of costing resources?

Tanking with only staves will be garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons. Tanking with S&B on one bar and a frost staff on the other will likely become the new tanking meta.

That taunt is the one thing I don't agree with.

I love the changes they made to Frost Staves, and they open up a lot of new possibilities in Cyro.

But in PvE, Frost Staff DPSers are now at risk of taunting the boss. I'm currently using a Master's Ice Staff for both PvP and PvE, since I haven't been lucky enough to obtain a Fire Staff from either arena or an Aether Staff. And now I'm at risk for using it in vet trials due to the taunt they added to it.

Personally, I think they should get rid of the taunt and revert back to the Damage Shield we had (make it stronger maybe?) or have Frost Heavy attacks snare (or remove snares from the caster?) so that the weapon still has useful tanking abilities without compromising the DPSers

Oh ouch! Yeah that sucks. Being a DPS using a frost staff that's really difficult to get a replacement for would certainly make these changes be unwelcome

STEVIL · January 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Because everyone who tanks as magic, doesn't want to be forced to use sword and board. It's pretty dumb if they didn't do this.

Undaunted was the magic taunt but it's not accessible until after many undaunted progression

Because not every Ice Staff build wants to become a tank?

Not even to mention that all Ice Staff PvE DPS builds just became useless. Heavy Attack will taunt the boss and possibly get your whole trial group killed.

Why should a stick of wood provide as much defense passively as a giant shield? If you want big defense, grab a shield. That's how things have always worked in most all games, not just ESO.

Very stupid change.

Not every player running a s-b build wants to be a tank either.

but for both, while they can ignore the obvious benefits and play however they want, they dont get to escape consequences of their choices.

JamieAubrey · January 2017

So all these months of using Ice Stave will pay off, I now can use Tremorscale on my Sorc since IG can no longer hit stealth players

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

How is it a problem?

Healing pulls aggro, a lot of dps pulls aggro and some tanks don't even taunt.

Now the use of the staff allows a ping pong effect.
At worse when ppl are trying to taunt or kite and slow adds.

It's a problem because healing and DPS don't pull aggro from a taunted enemy, but taunts do. Nobody should be taunting other than the tank.

And tanks who don't taunt aren't tanks, pure and simple. That's like a healer who doesn't heal. Or a DPS who doesn't do damage. If you're not doing the primary job of your role, then you're not that role.

But again, it's only a problem of educating people who don't know that it taunts, or who don't know what a taunt is.

@UrQuan

Healing and dps actually do pull aggro bud.
That's the reason you have to keep taunting every so often.

Are you suggesting something else is occurring cause the other roles aren't taunting off the tanks taunts over the last two years.

Also, because you and others are suggesting noobs or what not and/or those who you say aren't tanks....

Let's actually look at where the taunting happens and when things are unlocked.

Let's look at the use of a heavy attack using a frost staff

Let's look at how many are using a frost staff

Let's look at the sets that benefit off frost attacks/effects

I'll ignore your last sentence and let's have a reasonable discussion cause the question is really.....exactly how is it a problem in context to the changes.

You all are coming from an elitist point of view which suggests you'd both know that frost can't taunt away from the tank who is constantly taunting and understand how to taunt away.

What exactly is the issue?

UrQuan · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

How is it a problem?

Healing pulls aggro, a lot of dps pulls aggro and some tanks don't even taunt.

Now the use of the staff allows a ping pong effect.
At worse when ppl are trying to taunt or kite and slow adds.

It's a problem because healing and DPS don't pull aggro from a taunted enemy, but taunts do. Nobody should be taunting other than the tank.

And tanks who don't taunt aren't tanks, pure and simple. That's like a healer who doesn't heal. Or a DPS who doesn't do damage. If you're not doing the primary job of your role, then you're not that role.

But again, it's only a problem of educating people who don't know that it taunts, or who don't know what a taunt is.

@UrQuan

Healing and dps actually do pull aggro bud.
That's the reason you have to keep taunting every so often.

Are you suggesting something else is occurring cause the other roles aren't taunting off the tanks taunts over the last two years.

No. This is completely false. How can you have possibly been playing the game as long as you have and get this wrong? You have to keep taunting every so often because a taunt lasts for a set period of time. During that set period of time healing and DPS will not pull aggro for that target. It's only if you let your taunt expire, or if someone else applies a new taunt, that the target will go after someone else. This is really one of the most basic mechanics in group PVE, so I'm actually legitimately shocked that you didn't know it.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Also, because you and others are suggesting noobs or what not and/or those who you say aren't tanks....

Let's actually look at where the taunting happens and when things are unlocked.

Let's look at the use of a heavy attack using a frost staff

Let's look at how many are using a frost staff

Let's look at the sets that benefit off frost attacks/effects

I'll ignore your last sentence and let's have a reasonable discussion cause the question is really.....exactly how is it a problem in context to the changes.

You all are coming from an elitist point of view which suggests you'd both know that frost can't taunt and understand how to taunt away.

What exactly is the issue?

I literally have no idea what you're talking about here, so instead of replying to it (because I don't understand what you're trying to say), let me clarify what I mean about the problem with noobs (not "noobs" in a derogatory sense, mind you, just in the sense of not knowing or understanding the way it works) and frost staff heavy attacks.

If they're new to MMOs in general, they may not understand what a taunt is in the first place and not understand exactly what that heavy attack does when they use it on the boss that the tank has taunted. Suddenly because of them, the tank loses control of the battle. This is the same problem that already happens with noobs using the first available skill in the S&B skill line. I should know: it happened with me when ESO launched.

If they're not new to MMOs or to ESO, but they didn't read the patch notes in detail, they may not realize that their heavy attack suddenly taunts, when it didn't do that before. Suddenly because of them, the tank loses control of the battle.

Those 2 scenarios are the problem. They're solved by helping educate people about the fact that the heavy attack will now taunt, and for those who don't know what a taunt does by also telling them what that means.

Maybe you didn't understand the point being made because you didn't understand how taunts work?

xXSilverDragonXx · January 2017

For this to even be remotely viable and have some whiff of logic or sense in it, it has to be on both resto and desto staves with a WHOLE NEW passive added specifically to taunt. Then hybrid desto/SB tanks and resto back bar templars have a good viable option. But to just tack it on to ice staves tri passive is a half baked barely thought through idea at best and at worst a situation that is going to wreak havoc for all the new players who don't really grasp how horribly wrong this can go if they use an ice staff instead of a lightning or flame one. And new players probably use anything they get for drops as they roll through the game. So if a frost staff comes their way they might not specifically remember that frost staves taunt because who the heck would? Staves aren't taunting weapons or tools except in ESO when the half baked high out of their minds 'balance team' decides that they are. Good gods, if they want to do this they should be doing it right. Not this lazy crap we have here that looks as if it's meant as a joke to the majority of players. Shame on ESO for not even trying to do their job well.

pizzaow · January 2017

A lot of this could be fixed if there was a way to turn this off/on

Although, my initial reaction is WTF, I am in favor of more options. Heck, there are a lot more creative people out there than me who might come up with a quality build based around this. However, as many have mentioned, the biggest danger is unintended usage; I pug a lot (as a tank), and this is scary since I run into lots of players without a mic spamming heavy attacks (and likely just pickup the highest level staff they come across).

Some options:
* Enable this as a 5-piece bonus to something like winterborn, permafrost, ysgramor's birthright or iceheart.
[EDIT] I re-read the patch notes, this is a passive ability. Use with caution
* Explicitly set something to taunt (perhaps a level 50 destruction staff passive) - hoping that if someone has leveled to 50 they at least understands what a taunt is.

Secondarily, it kills any non-tanking use in PvE; I got excited with the frostcaller motif and was thinking about an ice-centeric DPS build; something like alcasts' frostmage build.

Lastly, is this ZOS' way of confirming that there will never be an class with a frost based skill line?

Wifeaggro13 · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

How is it a problem?

Healing pulls aggro, a lot of dps pulls aggro and some tanks don't even taunt.

Now the use of the staff allows a ping pong effect.
At worse when ppl are trying to taunt or kite and slow adds.

umm no Blacksmurf. Healing and dps do not pull aggro here is how it works Taunt is a hard ability it works for as long as that counter is going. once it disapates the mob is open to target anyone. you can make the boss immune to taunting by having multiple people apply the taunt. then the boss gain an immunity and will not be tauntable until the taunts are off .

There are no aggro tables in ESO per the devs this has been discussed and answered by the dev team.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

How is it a problem?

Healing pulls aggro, a lot of dps pulls aggro and some tanks don't even taunt.

Now the use of the staff allows a ping pong effect.
At worse when ppl are trying to taunt or kite and slow adds.

umm no Blacksmurf. Healing and dps do not pull aggro here is how it works Taunt is a hard ability it works for as long as that counter is going. once it disapates the mob is open to target anyone. you can make the boss immune to taunting by having multiple people apply the taunt. then the boss gain an immunity and will not be tauntable until the taunts are off .

There are no aggro tables in ESO per the devs this has been discussed and answered by the dev team.

@UrQuan and @Wifeaggro13

Guys....healing definately pulls aggro.

Do you all heal as your main spec in PvE dungeons and trials?

If it doesn't pull aggro then please detail exactly why as a healer I'm being targeted by NPCs after a tank taunts. And this isn't occurring due to a 12 second timer or less depending upon the taunt used.

Do u guys remember when the taunt was changed where u would have adverse taunts for using it prior to 12 seconds?

UrQuan · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

How is it a problem?

Healing pulls aggro, a lot of dps pulls aggro and some tanks don't even taunt.

Now the use of the staff allows a ping pong effect.
At worse when ppl are trying to taunt or kite and slow adds.

umm no Blacksmurf. Healing and dps do not pull aggro here is how it works Taunt is a hard ability it works for as long as that counter is going. once it disapates the mob is open to target anyone. you can make the boss immune to taunting by having multiple people apply the taunt. then the boss gain an immunity and will not be tauntable until the taunts are off .

There are no aggro tables in ESO per the devs this has been discussed and answered by the dev team.

@UrQuan and @Wifeaggro13

Guys....healing definately pulls aggro.

Do you all heal as your main spec in PvE dungeons and trials?

If it doesn't pull aggro then please detail exactly why as a healer I'm being targeted by NPCs after a tank taunts. And this isn't occurring due to a 12 second timer or less depending upon the taunt used.

Do u guys remember when the taunt was changed where u would have adverse taunts for using it prior to 12 seconds?

You're wrong. Period. No ifs ands or buts. I do all 3 roles (although only 1 at a time) in virtually all PVE content. You don't ever get aggro from a taunted boss unless it's a mechanic (or boss) that specifically ignores taunts, or unless you apply your own taunt. Edit: I shouldn't just say "unless you apply your own taunt" because if any 2 or more people apply taunts to the same target a total of 3 or more times within 12 seconds then the target becomes temporarily immune to taunts. It takes at least 2 people taunting to do that though, and if only 1 person is taunting it will never happen - it's been that way since Imperial City dropped.

And yes, I remember when over-taunting was a thing. As a tank it took me a while to get used to not having to wait to apply my next taunt.

Clarkieson · January 2017

redspecter23 wrote: »

This will lead to three new types of players

Noobs with ice staves that don't realize they are taunting away from the tank. Yay!

Noobs wtih ice staves that know they can taunt with heavy attacks and queuing as tanks. Yay!

Experienced players that know they can taunt with ice staves and actually have a decent build, but are immediately kicked from groups. Yay!

I may have missed some but happy times with group finder are coming.

So this

It goes in line with pve nerfing to try and make the lives of tanks impossible

We already have tremorscale dps taunting bosses so the tanks are useless, now ice staff users are going to taunt as well

This may as well be a tanking nerf

I feel sorry for dedicated tanks

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

How is it a problem?

Healing pulls aggro, a lot of dps pulls aggro and some tanks don't even taunt.

Now the use of the staff allows a ping pong effect.
At worse when ppl are trying to taunt or kite and slow adds.

umm no Blacksmurf. Healing and dps do not pull aggro here is how it works Taunt is a hard ability it works for as long as that counter is going. once it disapates the mob is open to target anyone. you can make the boss immune to taunting by having multiple people apply the taunt. then the boss gain an immunity and will not be tauntable until the taunts are off .

There are no aggro tables in ESO per the devs this has been discussed and answered by the dev team.

@UrQuan and @Wifeaggro13

Guys....healing definately pulls aggro.

Do you all heal as your main spec in PvE dungeons and trials?

If it doesn't pull aggro then please detail exactly why as a healer I'm being targeted by NPCs after a tank taunts. And this isn't occurring due to a 12 second timer or less depending upon the taunt used.

Do u guys remember when the taunt was changed where u would have adverse taunts for using it prior to 12 seconds?

You're wrong. Period. No ifs ands or buts. I do all 3 roles (although only 1 at a time) in virtually all PVE content. You don't ever get aggro from a taunted boss unless it's a mechanic (or boss) that specifically ignores taunts, or unless you apply your own taunt. Edit: I shouldn't just say "unless you apply your own taunt" because if any 2 or more people apply taunts to the same target a total of 3 or more times within 12 seconds then the target becomes temporarily immune to taunts. It takes at least 2 people taunting to do that though, and if only 1 person is taunting it will never happen - it's been that way since Imperial City dropped.

And yes, I remember when over-taunting was a thing. As a tank it took me a while to get used to not having to wait to apply my next taunt.

@UrQuan

Well if I'm wrong then the Xbox one version has been broken since release and before then, I guess when I was on PC, everyone was taunting causing the issue by multiple players.

No.....bud, healing cause aggro. It's not due to bad players or what not. It's cause the game doesn't have an aggro table like some other MMOs but as a healer I get aggro.

[SNIP] It's why u hold blue do and wait for a tank to taunt off u

[edited for bait]

Clarkieson · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

How is it a problem?

Healing pulls aggro, a lot of dps pulls aggro and some tanks don't even taunt.

Now the use of the staff allows a ping pong effect.
At worse when ppl are trying to taunt or kite and slow adds.

umm no Blacksmurf. Healing and dps do not pull aggro here is how it works Taunt is a hard ability it works for as long as that counter is going. once it disapates the mob is open to target anyone. you can make the boss immune to taunting by having multiple people apply the taunt. then the boss gain an immunity and will not be tauntable until the taunts are off .

There are no aggro tables in ESO per the devs this has been discussed and answered by the dev team.

@UrQuan and @Wifeaggro13

Guys....healing definately pulls aggro.

Do you all heal as your main spec in PvE dungeons and trials?

If it doesn't pull aggro then please detail exactly why as a healer I'm being targeted by NPCs after a tank taunts. And this isn't occurring due to a 12 second timer or less depending upon the taunt used.

Do u guys remember when the taunt was changed where u would have adverse taunts for using it prior to 12 seconds?

You're wrong. Period. No ifs ands or buts. I do all 3 roles (although only 1 at a time) in virtually all PVE content. You don't ever get aggro from a taunted boss unless it's a mechanic (or boss) that specifically ignores taunts, or unless you apply your own taunt. Edit: I shouldn't just say "unless you apply your own taunt" because if any 2 or more people apply taunts to the same target a total of 3 or more times within 12 seconds then the target becomes temporarily immune to taunts. It takes at least 2 people taunting to do that though, and if only 1 person is taunting it will never happen - it's been that way since Imperial City dropped.

And yes, I remember when over-taunting was a thing. As a tank it took me a while to get used to not having to wait to apply my next taunt.

@UrQuan

Well if I'm wrong then the Xbox one version has been broken since release and before then, I guess when I was on PC, everyone was taunting causing the issue by multiple players.

No.....bud, healing cause aggro. It's not due to bad players or what not. It's cause the game doesn't have an aggro table like some other MMOs but as a healer I get aggro.

That's not debatable.

Of course we are wrong we dont play on PC

UrQuan · January 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

How is it a problem?

Healing pulls aggro, a lot of dps pulls aggro and some tanks don't even taunt.

Now the use of the staff allows a ping pong effect.
At worse when ppl are trying to taunt or kite and slow adds.

umm no Blacksmurf. Healing and dps do not pull aggro here is how it works Taunt is a hard ability it works for as long as that counter is going. once it disapates the mob is open to target anyone. you can make the boss immune to taunting by having multiple people apply the taunt. then the boss gain an immunity and will not be tauntable until the taunts are off .

There are no aggro tables in ESO per the devs this has been discussed and answered by the dev team.

@UrQuan and @Wifeaggro13

Guys....healing definately pulls aggro.

Do you all heal as your main spec in PvE dungeons and trials?

If it doesn't pull aggro then please detail exactly why as a healer I'm being targeted by NPCs after a tank taunts. And this isn't occurring due to a 12 second timer or less depending upon the taunt used.

Do u guys remember when the taunt was changed where u would have adverse taunts for using it prior to 12 seconds?

You're wrong. Period. No ifs ands or buts. I do all 3 roles (although only 1 at a time) in virtually all PVE content. You don't ever get aggro from a taunted boss unless it's a mechanic (or boss) that specifically ignores taunts, or unless you apply your own taunt. Edit: I shouldn't just say "unless you apply your own taunt" because if any 2 or more people apply taunts to the same target a total of 3 or more times within 12 seconds then the target becomes temporarily immune to taunts. It takes at least 2 people taunting to do that though, and if only 1 person is taunting it will never happen - it's been that way since Imperial City dropped.

And yes, I remember when over-taunting was a thing. As a tank it took me a while to get used to not having to wait to apply my next taunt.

@UrQuan

Well if I'm wrong then the Xbox one version has been broken since release and before then, I guess when I was on PC, everyone was taunting causing the issue by multiple players.

No.....bud, healing cause aggro. It's not due to bad players or what not. It's cause the game doesn't have an aggro table like some other MMOs but as a healer I get aggro.

That's not debatable.

You're wrong period. That's not debatable. The only reason you (whether on Xbox or any other platform) will ever get aggro from a taunted boss is if it's a mechanic that specifically ignores taunts, or if 2 or more people apply too many taunts within 12 seconds, giving it temporary taunt immunity. You can't magically get aggro from a taunted target by healing. It doesn't happen.

Also I guess you're not aware of when the Xbox version of the game came out. It was before Imperial City, so it was back when a tank could be the only one taunting and still over-taunt. And if you were back on PC before that, that also would have been back when a single person could over-taunt.

The fact of the matter is you simply don't understand the taunt mechanics in ESO. And apparently you never have.

UrQuan · January 2017

Clarkieson wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

- Gives no debuff on the boss.
- Can't be performed while blocking.
- Will result in newbies taunting away bosses.
- Will result in froststaffs being even worse for PvE.
-> Complete garbage if you want to do anything higher than normal dungeons.

The whole patch is just ridiculous but this change tops everything.

Mind you, the bold part is a potentially big issue.

That just comes down to educating newbies, though, and really it's no different from newbies not knowing that S&B isn't good for DPS and that the first skill in that skill line is a bad one for them to be using as a DPS because it takes aggro from the tank.

How is it a problem?

Healing pulls aggro, a lot of dps pulls aggro and some tanks don't even taunt.

Now the use of the staff allows a ping pong effect.
At worse when ppl are trying to taunt or kite and slow adds.

umm no Blacksmurf. Healing and dps do not pull aggro here is how it works Taunt is a hard ability it works for as long as that counter is going. once it disapates the mob is open to target anyone. you can make the boss immune to taunting by having multiple people apply the taunt. then the boss gain an immunity and will not be tauntable until the taunts are off .

There are no aggro tables in ESO per the devs this has been discussed and answered by the dev team.

@UrQuan and @Wifeaggro13

Guys....healing definately pulls aggro.

Do you all heal as your main spec in PvE dungeons and trials?

If it doesn't pull aggro then please detail exactly why as a healer I'm being targeted by NPCs after a tank taunts. And this isn't occurring due to a 12 second timer or less depending upon the taunt used.

Do u guys remember when the taunt was changed where u would have adverse taunts for using it prior to 12 seconds?

You're wrong. Period. No ifs ands or buts. I do all 3 roles (although only 1 at a time) in virtually all PVE content. You don't ever get aggro from a taunted boss unless it's a mechanic (or boss) that specifically ignores taunts, or unless you apply your own taunt. Edit: I shouldn't just say "unless you apply your own taunt" because if any 2 or more people apply taunts to the same target a total of 3 or more times within 12 seconds then the target becomes temporarily immune to taunts. It takes at least 2 people taunting to do that though, and if only 1 person is taunting it will never happen - it's been that way since Imperial City dropped.

And yes, I remember when over-taunting was a thing. As a tank it took me a while to get used to not having to wait to apply my next taunt.

@UrQuan

Well if I'm wrong then the Xbox one version has been broken since release and before then, I guess when I was on PC, everyone was taunting causing the issue by multiple players.

No.....bud, healing cause aggro. It's not due to bad players or what not. It's cause the game doesn't have an aggro table like some other MMOs but as a healer I get aggro.

That's not debatable.

Of course we are wrong we dont play on PC

All it takes is reading the patch notes and/or paying close attention during fights and/or doing tests of the mechanics. It doesn't matter what platform you're on.