lucky_Sage wrote: »

1. No current single-player games out that let you do as much as you can do in current MMOs.
2. I'm an introvert. I don't do small talk. I only chat (live or typing) when I have something that I need to answer or have a comment about something that is important to me.
3. No offense, but I don't know you people. For all I know, you're a thief or a *** or a pathological liar or whatever. I don't deal with strangers easily. Trust needs to be earned, and that's hard to do when hiding behind an online avatar.
4. I have no patience for people who feel the need to preen, show off, act like they are better than others, etc. There are too many of these people in all MMOs, and it's so irritating that I seriously can't stand it and honestly wish all the time that someone somewhere would come out with another single-player game with a great story, crafting, exploration, etc. I don't care who you are and what you bought or earned in the game. You are not a special snowflake. No one is better than anyone else because guess what? We all have faults and weaknesses and differences. Because you think you're special does not mean you are.
5. I cannot tolerate racism, homophobia, childish sexual innuendos, etc. Grow up, be respectful, and just be a decent human being. You're not funny.
6. I will not be told how to play, what to be, what skills I should have, or what order of skills I need to play. Therefore, I do not group with people and I do not do end-game content/dungeons/trials, etc. I pay for this game and I play how I want. I may suck. I don't really care because I enjoy myself by myself.
7. If I manage to get to know someone in game who is similar to me, I will become very close to that person (or people) and will do anything I can to help them. I am a very caring and generous person (in real life and in game) and I like to give and I like to help. I just find the majority of the population are really crappy people. I hope it's because the good people are just quiet like me, but it's hard to tell. The older I get and the more exposure to people I have, I honestly have begun to think this world just sucks now and that most people are awful, greedy, selfish, rude, and nasty. Therefore, I prefer to be solo. Terrible outlook on life, but the bad apparently rises to the top and the good fades into nonexistence.

I desperately need people to prove me wrong. Many of the comments in this thread make me feel better, but I don't see it enough in the game to make me start believing it. Sigh. :'(

Artemiisia wrote: »

why do u care?

people have the right to play how ever they pleases and they aint hurting anyone

Orthodoxa wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

Sociopathic troll topic designed to try and make people who enjoy solo play look bad by starting off from a fallacious position. The notion that one would choose to always play solo. One might choose to play solo occasionally, with a partner most often, or even with a small group. And yet in this sociopath's dream world, the only two options are loners with no social skills or large groups of happy people.

When was a WoW group ever happy? Are CP bigots happy people? Here's an important question for our sociopathic OP: Do you think that forced grouping exists to help people with social skills, or without social skills? Think very, very carefully about the question. It's not a trick question, really. It's pretty simple to understand, just let it percolate and give yourself a chance to actually understand what's being posited, here. If a person has social skills, they'd be able to choose to group when they want without needing to be forced into a group. Therefore, people who play raids are specifically people without social skills. Usually sociopathic people who want people they can be control freaks with.

And that's what raids were about. Control freaks making everyone else miserable. The reason MMOs moved away from this (the reason WoW even moved away from this) is because people don't like being forced to play with Machiavellian, sociopathic control freaks like our OP. Having social skills, one can choose to play with whomever they want, whenever they want. We don't need content that forces a number of people to play at the same time. We can simply choose to play at the same by our own merit, because we have the capacity to create a social environment.

So this whole thread is just a sociopathic straw man. A desperate attempt to try and convince people that it was better in the 'old times' when sociopathic control freaks could make groups of people miserable. A very sad, desperate, whiny attempt.

I give this a 2/10 at best.

Edit: Anyone else notice that the sociopaths are getting ever more desperate now that there are people actually calling them out? This is what happens with sociopathy, FYI. If you call them out, they go ballistic/nuclear. They'll try and destroy you. They just go completely bonkers/nuts. And that's what this thread is. Since people have started calling them out, they're just going a bit crazy and showing how borderline they are.

I'd prefer an ESO without sociopaths. Thanks.

And the more we move away from very toxic, competitive environments, the less sociopaths there'll be.

There is so much awesome in this single post. It is the best one in the thread so far and absolutely describes the reality of the situation with incredible perception and analysis.

The die-hard elitist raider mindset is indeed highly sociopathic and very obsessive / compulsive with the need to dominate and control other people.

Iselin wrote: »

Orthodoxa wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

Sociopathic troll topic designed to try and make people who enjoy solo play look bad by starting off from a fallacious position. The notion that one would choose to always play solo. One might choose to play solo occasionally, with a partner most often, or even with a small group. And yet in this sociopath's dream world, the only two options are loners with no social skills or large groups of happy people.

When was a WoW group ever happy? Are CP bigots happy people? Here's an important question for our sociopathic OP: Do you think that forced grouping exists to help people with social skills, or without social skills? Think very, very carefully about the question. It's not a trick question, really. It's pretty simple to understand, just let it percolate and give yourself a chance to actually understand what's being posited, here. If a person has social skills, they'd be able to choose to group when they want without needing to be forced into a group. Therefore, people who play raids are specifically people without social skills. Usually sociopathic people who want people they can be control freaks with.

And that's what raids were about. Control freaks making everyone else miserable. The reason MMOs moved away from this (the reason WoW even moved away from this) is because people don't like being forced to play with Machiavellian, sociopathic control freaks like our OP. Having social skills, one can choose to play with whomever they want, whenever they want. We don't need content that forces a number of people to play at the same time. We can simply choose to play at the same by our own merit, because we have the capacity to create a social environment.

So this whole thread is just a sociopathic straw man. A desperate attempt to try and convince people that it was better in the 'old times' when sociopathic control freaks could make groups of people miserable. A very sad, desperate, whiny attempt.

I give this a 2/10 at best.

Edit: Anyone else notice that the sociopaths are getting ever more desperate now that there are people actually calling them out? This is what happens with sociopathy, FYI. If you call them out, they go ballistic/nuclear. They'll try and destroy you. They just go completely bonkers/nuts. And that's what this thread is. Since people have started calling them out, they're just going a bit crazy and showing how borderline they are.

I'd prefer an ESO without sociopaths. Thanks.

And the more we move away from very toxic, competitive environments, the less sociopaths there'll be.

There is so much awesome in this single post. It is the best one in the thread so far and absolutely describes the reality of the situation with incredible perception and analysis.

The die-hard elitist raider mindset is indeed highly sociopathic and very obsessive / compulsive with the need to dominate and control other people.

There is that but there is also the zealotry of some old-time MMO players who scoff at the idea of anything MMO not being compulsory group content. It's like a weird religion to them and they refuse to think of ESO as a "true MMO" because it has lots of solo content.

Luckily most of those types are not here. They're busy "donating" money to indie, retro KS projects like Pantheon and spewing their dogmatic nonsense in those forums.

• It's extremely difficult to get the right gear/Skill load-out to Solo a Group Dungeon. So you MUST form a group to conquer that challenge.
• It's impossible to Solo a Trial. So you must form a group to take on that challenge.
• World Bosses have been changed so that 99% of them cannot be killed Solo. So you must wait for random people to show up to form an impromptu group, or tackle them with an existing group in order to clear the World Bosses.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Orthodoxa wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

Sociopathic troll topic designed to try and make people who enjoy solo play look bad by starting off from a fallacious position. The notion that one would choose to always play solo. One might choose to play solo occasionally, with a partner most often, or even with a small group. And yet in this sociopath's dream world, the only two options are loners with no social skills or large groups of happy people.

When was a WoW group ever happy? Are CP bigots happy people? Here's an important question for our sociopathic OP: Do you think that forced grouping exists to help people with social skills, or without social skills? Think very, very carefully about the question. It's not a trick question, really. It's pretty simple to understand, just let it percolate and give yourself a chance to actually understand what's being posited, here. If a person has social skills, they'd be able to choose to group when they want without needing to be forced into a group. Therefore, people who play raids are specifically people without social skills. Usually sociopathic people who want people they can be control freaks with.

And that's what raids were about. Control freaks making everyone else miserable. The reason MMOs moved away from this (the reason WoW even moved away from this) is because people don't like being forced to play with Machiavellian, sociopathic control freaks like our OP. Having social skills, one can choose to play with whomever they want, whenever they want. We don't need content that forces a number of people to play at the same time. We can simply choose to play at the same by our own merit, because we have the capacity to create a social environment.

So this whole thread is just a sociopathic straw man. A desperate attempt to try and convince people that it was better in the 'old times' when sociopathic control freaks could make groups of people miserable. A very sad, desperate, whiny attempt.

I give this a 2/10 at best.

Edit: Anyone else notice that the sociopaths are getting ever more desperate now that there are people actually calling them out? This is what happens with sociopathy, FYI. If you call them out, they go ballistic/nuclear. They'll try and destroy you. They just go completely bonkers/nuts. And that's what this thread is. Since people have started calling them out, they're just going a bit crazy and showing how borderline they are.

I'd prefer an ESO without sociopaths. Thanks.

And the more we move away from very toxic, competitive environments, the less sociopaths there'll be.

There is so much awesome in this single post. It is the best one in the thread so far and absolutely describes the reality of the situation with incredible perception and analysis.

The die-hard elitist raider mindset is indeed highly sociopathic and very obsessive / compulsive with the need to dominate and control other people.

There is that but there is also the zealotry of some old-time MMO players who scoff at the idea of anything MMO not being compulsory group content. It's like a weird religion to them and they refuse to think of ESO as a "true MMO" because it has lots of solo content.

Luckily most of those types are not here. They're busy "donating" money to indie, retro KS projects like Pantheon and spewing their dogmatic nonsense in those forums.

I'm one of those "old time MMO players", and I must agree with your assessment. I find it odd that people would be championing the idea of being FORCED to group with people more than we already are.

• It's extremely difficult to get the right gear/Skill load-out to Solo a Group Dungeon. So you MUST form a group to conquer that challenge.
• It's impossible to Solo a Trial. So you must form a group to take on that challenge.
• World Bosses have been changed so that 99% of them cannot be killed Solo. So you must wait for random people to show up to form an impromptu group, or tackle them with an existing group in order to clear the World Bosses.

To be clear; I am perfectly fine with the necessity of those tasks above being Group-necessary content.

But just because a game is an MMORPG does not mean that a player must be forced or forcibly coerced into forming a Group.

You get these newer millennial MMORPG Gamers who seem to think along the same lines as those pockets of "old-time" MMO-Gamers, in that just because it is a "Massively Multiplayer" game, it must therefore also be a "Social" game.

A huge part of the draw in modern MMORPG's is the freedom to play as you want. Go where you want, Quest or PvP at your leisure, Group or "Lone Wolf" it as you desire. But nowhere in the MMORPG lexicon should we have ever arrived at the notion that an MMORPG MUST force social grouping in order for the game to be played or "fun".

As I said, I come from that time in the mists of MMO history when the developers and very design of the game forced people to group up to do anything. This led to people finding new friends and the eventual formations of "Guilds", sure; but more often than not, most groups were miserable arguments that rarely got their tasks accomplished due to a handful of control-freaks vying for control and measuring their E-peens while doing so.

It was (and still is) a blessed evolution of MMORPG's when content that allowed for more and more Solo play became more and more frequent.

So, yeah; as an "old-time" MMO Gamer, I really do not understand this mentality that MMORPG's should force social grouping in order to get anything done. Content in an MMO should always allow for Solo play as much in importance as Group_necessity content.

They are Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games, THEY ARE NOT Massively Multiplayer Social Online Role-Playing Games... and everyone should keep that in mind. Just because a person or group of Gamers love playing in Groups, that does not mean that it is OK to FORCE grouping on those players who don't want it.

Iselin wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Orthodoxa wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

Sociopathic troll topic designed to try and make people who enjoy solo play look bad by starting off from a fallacious position. The notion that one would choose to always play solo. One might choose to play solo occasionally, with a partner most often, or even with a small group. And yet in this sociopath's dream world, the only two options are loners with no social skills or large groups of happy people.

When was a WoW group ever happy? Are CP bigots happy people? Here's an important question for our sociopathic OP: Do you think that forced grouping exists to help people with social skills, or without social skills? Think very, very carefully about the question. It's not a trick question, really. It's pretty simple to understand, just let it percolate and give yourself a chance to actually understand what's being posited, here. If a person has social skills, they'd be able to choose to group when they want without needing to be forced into a group. Therefore, people who play raids are specifically people without social skills. Usually sociopathic people who want people they can be control freaks with.

And that's what raids were about. Control freaks making everyone else miserable. The reason MMOs moved away from this (the reason WoW even moved away from this) is because people don't like being forced to play with Machiavellian, sociopathic control freaks like our OP. Having social skills, one can choose to play with whomever they want, whenever they want. We don't need content that forces a number of people to play at the same time. We can simply choose to play at the same by our own merit, because we have the capacity to create a social environment.

So this whole thread is just a sociopathic straw man. A desperate attempt to try and convince people that it was better in the 'old times' when sociopathic control freaks could make groups of people miserable. A very sad, desperate, whiny attempt.

I give this a 2/10 at best.

Edit: Anyone else notice that the sociopaths are getting ever more desperate now that there are people actually calling them out? This is what happens with sociopathy, FYI. If you call them out, they go ballistic/nuclear. They'll try and destroy you. They just go completely bonkers/nuts. And that's what this thread is. Since people have started calling them out, they're just going a bit crazy and showing how borderline they are.

I'd prefer an ESO without sociopaths. Thanks.

And the more we move away from very toxic, competitive environments, the less sociopaths there'll be.

There is so much awesome in this single post. It is the best one in the thread so far and absolutely describes the reality of the situation with incredible perception and analysis.

The die-hard elitist raider mindset is indeed highly sociopathic and very obsessive / compulsive with the need to dominate and control other people.

There is that but there is also the zealotry of some old-time MMO players who scoff at the idea of anything MMO not being compulsory group content. It's like a weird religion to them and they refuse to think of ESO as a "true MMO" because it has lots of solo content.

Luckily most of those types are not here. They're busy "donating" money to indie, retro KS projects like Pantheon and spewing their dogmatic nonsense in those forums.

I'm one of those "old time MMO players", and I must agree with your assessment. I find it odd that people would be championing the idea of being FORCED to group with people more than we already are.

• It's extremely difficult to get the right gear/Skill load-out to Solo a Group Dungeon. So you MUST form a group to conquer that challenge.
• It's impossible to Solo a Trial. So you must form a group to take on that challenge.
• World Bosses have been changed so that 99% of them cannot be killed Solo. So you must wait for random people to show up to form an impromptu group, or tackle them with an existing group in order to clear the World Bosses.

To be clear; I am perfectly fine with the necessity of those tasks above being Group-necessary content.

But just because a game is an MMORPG does not mean that a player must be forced or forcibly coerced into forming a Group.

You get these newer millennial MMORPG Gamers who seem to think along the same lines as those pockets of "old-time" MMO-Gamers, in that just because it is a "Massively Multiplayer" game, it must therefore also be a "Social" game.

A huge part of the draw in modern MMORPG's is the freedom to play as you want. Go where you want, Quest or PvP at your leisure, Group or "Lone Wolf" it as you desire. But nowhere in the MMORPG lexicon should we have ever arrived at the notion that an MMORPG MUST force social grouping in order for the game to be played or "fun".

As I said, I come from that time in the mists of MMO history when the developers and very design of the game forced people to group up to do anything. This led to people finding new friends and the eventual formations of "Guilds", sure; but more often than not, most groups were miserable arguments that rarely got their tasks accomplished due to a handful of control-freaks vying for control and measuring their E-peens while doing so.

It was (and still is) a blessed evolution of MMORPG's when content that allowed for more and more Solo play became more and more frequent.

So, yeah; as an "old-time" MMO Gamer, I really do not understand this mentality that MMORPG's should force social grouping in order to get anything done. Content in an MMO should always allow for Solo play as much in importance as Group_necessity content.

They are Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games, THEY ARE NOT Massively Multiplayer Social Online Role-Playing Games... and everyone should keep that in mind. Just because a person or group of Gamers love playing in Groups, that does not mean that it is OK to FORCE grouping on those players who don't want it.

Yeah me too. I've been playing MMORPGs since the 90's so I'm acutely aware of the "must group or nothing" mindset. They're a minority but a very loud minority in places where MMOs in general are discussed.

ESO has a very good mix of solo/group especially if you PVP in raid-sized groups.

The only additional group content I wish it had is more "drop-in" grouping as seen in dolmens. I love the way Rift especially did this with their zone-wide invasions that generate events that can't be ignored.

But ESO does a great job - much better than most in providing a lot of opportunity and variety to enjoy it how you want when you want.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Orthodoxa wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

Sociopathic troll topic designed to try and make people who enjoy solo play look bad by starting off from a fallacious position. The notion that one would choose to always play solo. One might choose to play solo occasionally, with a partner most often, or even with a small group. And yet in this sociopath's dream world, the only two options are loners with no social skills or large groups of happy people.

When was a WoW group ever happy? Are CP bigots happy people? Here's an important question for our sociopathic OP: Do you think that forced grouping exists to help people with social skills, or without social skills? Think very, very carefully about the question. It's not a trick question, really. It's pretty simple to understand, just let it percolate and give yourself a chance to actually understand what's being posited, here. If a person has social skills, they'd be able to choose to group when they want without needing to be forced into a group. Therefore, people who play raids are specifically people without social skills. Usually sociopathic people who want people they can be control freaks with.

And that's what raids were about. Control freaks making everyone else miserable. The reason MMOs moved away from this (the reason WoW even moved away from this) is because people don't like being forced to play with Machiavellian, sociopathic control freaks like our OP. Having social skills, one can choose to play with whomever they want, whenever they want. We don't need content that forces a number of people to play at the same time. We can simply choose to play at the same by our own merit, because we have the capacity to create a social environment.

So this whole thread is just a sociopathic straw man. A desperate attempt to try and convince people that it was better in the 'old times' when sociopathic control freaks could make groups of people miserable. A very sad, desperate, whiny attempt.

I give this a 2/10 at best.

Edit: Anyone else notice that the sociopaths are getting ever more desperate now that there are people actually calling them out? This is what happens with sociopathy, FYI. If you call them out, they go ballistic/nuclear. They'll try and destroy you. They just go completely bonkers/nuts. And that's what this thread is. Since people have started calling them out, they're just going a bit crazy and showing how borderline they are.

I'd prefer an ESO without sociopaths. Thanks.

And the more we move away from very toxic, competitive environments, the less sociopaths there'll be.

There is so much awesome in this single post. It is the best one in the thread so far and absolutely describes the reality of the situation with incredible perception and analysis.

The die-hard elitist raider mindset is indeed highly sociopathic and very obsessive / compulsive with the need to dominate and control other people.

There is that but there is also the zealotry of some old-time MMO players who scoff at the idea of anything MMO not being compulsory group content. It's like a weird religion to them and they refuse to think of ESO as a "true MMO" because it has lots of solo content.

Luckily most of those types are not here. They're busy "donating" money to indie, retro KS projects like Pantheon and spewing their dogmatic nonsense in those forums.

I'm one of those "old time MMO players", and I must agree with your assessment. I find it odd that people would be championing the idea of being FORCED to group with people more than we already are.

• It's extremely difficult to get the right gear/Skill load-out to Solo a Group Dungeon. So you MUST form a group to conquer that challenge.
• It's impossible to Solo a Trial. So you must form a group to take on that challenge.
• World Bosses have been changed so that 99% of them cannot be killed Solo. So you must wait for random people to show up to form an impromptu group, or tackle them with an existing group in order to clear the World Bosses.

To be clear; I am perfectly fine with the necessity of those tasks above being Group-necessary content.

But just because a game is an MMORPG does not mean that a player must be forced or forcibly coerced into forming a Group.

You get these newer millennial MMORPG Gamers who seem to think along the same lines as those pockets of "old-time" MMO-Gamers, in that just because it is a "Massively Multiplayer" game, it must therefore also be a "Social" game.

A huge part of the draw in modern MMORPG's is the freedom to play as you want. Go where you want, Quest or PvP at your leisure, Group or "Lone Wolf" it as you desire. But nowhere in the MMORPG lexicon should we have ever arrived at the notion that an MMORPG MUST force social grouping in order for the game to be played or "fun".

As I said, I come from that time in the mists of MMO history when the developers and very design of the game forced people to group up to do anything. This led to people finding new friends and the eventual formations of "Guilds", sure; but more often than not, most groups were miserable arguments that rarely got their tasks accomplished due to a handful of control-freaks vying for control and measuring their E-peens while doing so.

It was (and still is) a blessed evolution of MMORPG's when content that allowed for more and more Solo play became more and more frequent.

So, yeah; as an "old-time" MMO Gamer, I really do not understand this mentality that MMORPG's should force social grouping in order to get anything done. Content in an MMO should always allow for Solo play as much in importance as Group_necessity content.

They are Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games, THEY ARE NOT Massively Multiplayer Social Online Role-Playing Games... and everyone should keep that in mind. Just because a person or group of Gamers love playing in Groups, that does not mean that it is OK to FORCE grouping on those players who don't want it.

Probably one of the best posts I've read on here in awhile. Kinda disagree about the 99% of the world bosses not being soloable. I'm not an uber gamer by any stretch of the imagination, but I've taken down a few of them on my own. Some of them just require a lot of patience.

That aside, I like to think of ESO as an open ended game compared to the likes of Skyrim etc, and as such I enjoy having the option whether to group up for the best part of the content that's available and not having it forced upon me. Choices and options I can live with, having most *** forced upon me I couldn't stomach.

Iselin wrote: »

nimbli wrote: »

One other thing; grouping is so temporary here. Old style MMO's you would often group with the same players for upwards of 8+ hours in one zone/camp. There are no camps here. People got to know each other then. Here a dung lasts something like 20mins and then it breaks up. It was tab based targeting then and not twitchy so you could talk between spawns; one guild instead of five, dependency upon others just to get your damn gear back (and maybe if you were lucky some xp) when you died.

Anyway, thanks for the trip down memory lane OP.

Those long term groups is exactly what you get here in PVP. It's why I often refer to ESO PVP as a retro experience. It really is a different game with a different feel in Cyrodiil.