Why you should conditionally support the changes to proc sets for PVE

GorraShatan · December 2016

This is probably an unpopular opinion here, but I think the proc set changes if balance right could be a significant boon for PVE. Ignore the PVP considerations here - which could have been addressed in different ways. These changes are being put forward because they help

Power Creep - a Problem in PVE that these changes address

In any MMO, every time new, better skills or gear are added, all the preceding content becomes a little bit easier. If not addressed this can make older content easy to the point of being boring and silly, and substantially shrink the pool of challenging end game content to enjoy (and the pool isn't very large yet in ESO).

Scads of new gear was added in the One Tamriel Update, along with 30 more CP. Another 30 CP are added with update 13. That means healing, tanking, DPSing all gets a bit easier. This rolls that back partially by nerfing around ~8% of DPS from proc based DPS builds. So clearing vMoL in 30 minutes is a little less doable. This game doesn't need to be dumbed down more. Challange is good, particularly for the end game.

Yes, but why this change

For one, because if this is done right it should increase the diversity in DPS builds. Right now the meta is heavily centred around high-crit proc builds. If this is done right, those builds will still be viable, but will be less dominant over alternative builds. Big if I know, but I think ZOS should have the benefit of the doubt.

But I spent so much time farming this gear

Welcome to MMOs. Any time new gear or content comes out, some old gear is bound to become obsolete. If you didn't realize that previously... you should now. If this is done right, these sets should still have some utility. ESO is far more generous to old gear than other peer MMOs too - the level cap hasn't been raised in ages, and sets like Valkyn Skoria and TBS that you got back when IC was first released are still useful today. That's pretty exceptional.

But PvP balance shouldn't drive PvE!

It isn't. This affects both by design. The reduction in PVE DPS is pretty obviously intended. Sorry, PVP isn't your scapegoat.

Minalan · December 2016

Stop making sense!

I'm a triggered millennial and I'm entitled to cry about my 3% DPS loss!

Edit: to be fair though. This doesn't come close to solving the PVP proc set problems. In fact it encourages people to use multiple proc sets because damage proc sets can't crit. How do you get similar damage? Stack two or three!

This is a PVE nerf from the start.

KochDerDamonen · December 2016

>months of people complaining about multiple proc sets stacking in PvP
>ZOS responds months later by implementing a PvE centered nerf

There's a reason people are upset. Sure, balance proc sets so that they're a good alternative to crit stacking as has been the PvE meta for goodness knows how long. Sure, try to reign in overperforming sets (and, idk, [bleep]ing buff underperforming ones sometimes?). IF things work out that way, that's good. Knowing ZOS they're going to remove the items ability to crit, and maybe maybe slightly up the numbers on some of them. Maybe, they might. We can't let them put it on the PTS in a poor way and let them get away with it.

But it doesn't fix the thing that PvP players have been moaning about for months now, as far as we can tell. There's not much information, but it's not promising.

Bisenberger96 · December 2016

Problem with this is that all new proc sets that are released will be subject to the same nerf, which gimps them from the start. Secondly, removing crit from proc sets punishes coordinated groups who have worked to achieve optimal warhorn and major force uptime, something that is not always easy to do.

Browiseth · December 2016

honestly, i'll deal with the nerf as long as zos does us the decency of just making some of the countless fun but worthless sets in the game viable to compensate

i hate to sound like one of those people, but it genuinely offends me that they're going to make so many neat sets (worst case) obsolete and shrink this metagame's options even more

seriously zosimax. we've been patient, but it's time that half the gear that drops from this so called "end-game content" becomes worth a damn

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO · December 2016

When the problem is high burst damage, you don't need to remove the critical part (as at least in PvE that is a high part of the overall damage for at least "some" DPS builds) you just spread that damage out over time! Either as a damage over time (DOT) or by a delay (damage comes x seconds later) or both. Add a cool down timer where necessary.

Seriously: Poisons and diseases aren't instant and even fire burns are hurting you more over time then they do right this instance (as in blood loss or severe trauma / shock) in real life.

When you add a delay to when the proc damage actually fires, you solve a large portion of that burst damage problem (with a delay > 1-2 seconds at least) for PvP. Make the damage also an 'damage increases with time' DOT (problem gets larger if you don't purge it in time) you also solve / prevent the delay stacking / macro abuse problem.

Sure, people need to have to put ways to purge on their bar or in their sets and/or increase their resistance, but that is sure preferable to what we got now (and is almost mandatory now anyway).
In addition, you might want to (re-)add some more ways to purge DoTs to the skills again as additional countermeasure, too.

For PvE - (boss) fights last longer there - and nobody really cares about mobs anyway. Unless the bosses are immune or automatically purge every second (which is pretty much the same as immune) you still get the same total damage per minute you got before.

Result: No harm done for PvE and the proc set / high burst problem got solved for PvP.

Iluvrien · December 2016

GorraShatan wrote: »

Yes, but why this change

For one, because if this is done right it should increase the diversity in DPS builds. Right now the meta is heavily centred around high-crit proc builds. If this is done right, those builds will still be viable, but will be less dominant over alternative builds. Big if I know, but I think ZOS should have the benefit of the doubt.

Emphasis mine.

You are willing to give ZOS the benefit of the doubt. This will require a degree of finesse and care that I am not sure they have ever actually shown. On that basis, I disagree and I don't even make use of the high-crit proc builds.

BohnT · December 2016

The problem with delayed Burst or DoT damage in pvp is that you buff magicka templars and zergs as those are the only two groups of players who have access to purge at almost any time.