The Elder Scrolls Online

geonsocal · December 2016

this topic has been on my mind for a little while...for the most part i had simply looked at the topic from a more aesthetical viewpoint...the recent discussion about miat's "anti-gank" add-on kind of expanded the subject for me, to honest though - because i'm on console, i've never really thought much using add-ons...

i think a great deal concerning this specific topic of too much information on your screen is going to boil down to player preferences...

one of the things i enjoyed most about the introduction of One Tamriel was the removal of levels from the npc's - i really appreciated how much it cleaned up my screen...one of the reasons i don't group much is that i dislike the clutter it causes on the upper left portion of my screen (that and the fact i can only handle humanity in small doses)...

i'm not one of those "i need total immersion folks" in order to enjoy myself - but, i do like to focus on the graphics...i pvp a bunch, and, for myself the only combat "indicator" which i ever use are healthbars - mine, allies, and most importantly enemies...i do also use the compass at center top, current objective in the upper right, as well as the resource pools bars on the bottom of the screen...

so - here's my ideal screen:

and then - this just absolutely freaks me out:

i'm not saying it's wrong or useless or anything - i personally just don't understand how that can be enjoyable or really productive...then again - i'm not a high end player...

just wondering how some of you all feel about all the info which is available and what you like to have on your screen - thanks

Betheny · December 2016

My UI would horrify you.

Takes-No-Prisoner · December 2016

Betheny wrote: »

My UI would horrify you.

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

I have my ability bars scaled the smallest possible and that's it for PvP . The rest is audio adjustments . I spend hours every week adjusting my audio for combat as drivers update or new sound mixes come out . I like to hear what's coming in combat . Bow strings , whirling Majic sounds and low end pulses from destro staff abilities . I react by sound best .

As far as addons there are some great ones that improve immersion . The horse riding one that gives saddle view is really nice . There's one that turns chat into scrolls to read above players .

Utility addons like skyshards and maps make leveling alts not so terrible . The destination add on is great too . That's about it for me and what I like .

Sigtric · December 2016

I have gone back and forth from a very simple/mostly vanilla UI to an overloaded UI multiple times.

At the end of the day I'd rather have the information than not, just in case I need it.

I don't pay full attention to DPS numbers popping up over the targets head but instead watch it when I feel like I'm not putting out as much as I should be, or am killing much faster than I'm used to, to get a handle on what's going on so I can correct/make adjustments/keep doing what I am doing.

Mojmir · December 2016

Add a map too the second screen and that's how mine looks,it's also a bigger screen with smaller bars.outside of raiding it's less.

Acrolas · December 2016

Sparse user interfaces are fine for single player games.

But when you're trying to inform and train a lot of people about a great many features in the game, chopping out numbers and objectives are going to confuse people more than help them. The second one isn't pretty (except by twist of fate, it is), but it cuts out guesswork and gets things done in a group.

That's the divide. You have people wanting the top screen like an Elder Scrolls game, and people wanting the bottom screen like an MMO. And instead of just inventing two different UI modes, ZOS fumbled around with a really bare bones MMO UI that didn't really help either new or experienced players understand what was going on.

Danikat · December 2016

I would never bother with any of the addons (or default settings) that add floating damage numbers because I know from past experience I don't read them. In games where they can't be removed I literally stop seeing them after a while, to the point where I'm unsure whether a game includes them even if I was playing it earlier today.

In general I keep my UI pretty minimal, but I have added a few things. I couldn't play without a mini map because I have a very poor sense of direction that's even worse in games so a compass alone doesn't help me. Without a mini map I regularly find myself heading off in completely the wrong direction.

Other than that I use S'rendarr to track buffs and debuffs, but I keep it to the small icons at the bottom of the screen, and I use a subtitle mod because the default ones seem to assume you're blind as well as deaf and need writing that takes up 1/2 the screen.

On the other hand I actually use Azurah to move elements of the default UI closer to the edges of the screen and make things smaller so the UI looks less crowded and to hide account names unless I target a player. (I also use it to change a few things, like colouring the targets name so I can tell if they're an ally or an enemy, but that doesn't really add anything.)

All my other addons are either menus, like ESOTheater or invisible like Banker Shut Up or Binder.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · December 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I have my ability bars scaled the smallest possible and that's it for PvP . The rest is audio adjustments . I spend hours every week adjusting my audio for combat as drivers update or new sound mixes come out . I like to hear what's coming in combat . Bow strings , whirling Majic sounds and low end pulses from destro staff abilities . I react by sound best .

As far as addons there are some great ones that improve immersion . The horse riding one that gives saddle view is really nice . There's one that turns chat into scrolls to read above players .

Utility addons like skyshards and maps make leveling alts not so terrible . The destination add on is great too . That's about it for me and what I like .

For some reason i now have stuck in my head a picture of you with a black band tied around your eyes. Your head slightly tilted to the side as you listen to your computer in pvp. Listen to the wind!

https://youtu.be/I9ihIfoWl3Q

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I have my ability bars scaled the smallest possible and that's it for PvP . The rest is audio adjustments . I spend hours every week adjusting my audio for combat as drivers update or new sound mixes come out . I like to hear what's coming in combat . Bow strings , whirling Majic sounds and low end pulses from destro staff abilities . I react by sound best .

As far as addons there are some great ones that improve immersion . The horse riding one that gives saddle view is really nice . There's one that turns chat into scrolls to read above players .

Utility addons like skyshards and maps make leveling alts not so terrible . The destination add on is great too . That's about it for me and what I like .

For some reason i now have stuck in my head a picture of you with a black band tied around your eyes. Your head slightly tilted to the side as you listen to your computer in pvp. Listen to the wind!

https://youtu.be/I9ihIfoWl3Q

That's pretty much how it works out most times too .

Rickter · December 2016

its a tricky balance between wanting a clean minimalist UI and also to be informed. I am still struggling myself.

geonsocal · December 2016

howdy @Kutsuu sorry to keep bugging you on just about every post I make

truth is – I’m a bit of a fan of yours here on the forums …

I appreciate the fact that not only do you have a good understanding of end game mechanics – you seem like a pretty cool and kicked back person...also, you’re one of a very few whom can actually communicate all that knowledge to a more “basic” level player like myself…

I normally don’t watch too many videos of eso (cuz, I’m constantly playing eso myself – plus, I’m normally a participant/victim, and have a front row seat, on some of those spectacular 1vx death scenes )…

Kutsuu wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdEbIsY3eYk

If you get a second, tell me please – what’s the deal with all that info/feedback and input you’re receiving on screen:

Does it really help much?

Does it inhibit any sense of immersion you might be trying to achieve – is immersion something you even care about (competition > immersion)?

Does all that data even register with you (someone else mentioned becoming “blind” to it after a while)?

Do you keep up all that feedback when you’re in pve?

HOW IN THE WORLD ARE YOU ABLE TO FOCUS ON ANYTHING??? i'm imagining you have a stack of nootropics sitting by your rig...

Do you think derrick rose’s back is gonna hold up the rest of the season?...sorry, due to my extreme esteem for you – I’m making a leap of faith that you just might know something about basketball too...

Vrienda · December 2016

Vanilla UI is best UI. Though I do have floating combat text and health numbers% visible.

Kutsuu · December 2016

geonsocal wrote: »

howdy @Kutsuu sorry to keep bugging you on just about every post I make

truth is – I’m a bit of a fan of yours here on the forums …

I appreciate the fact that not only do you have a good understanding of end game mechanics – you seem like a pretty cool and kicked back person...also, you’re one of a very few whom can actually communicate all that knowledge to a more “basic” level player like myself…

I normally don’t watch too many videos of eso (cuz, I’m constantly playing eso myself – plus, I’m normally a participant/victim, and have a front row seat, on some of those spectacular 1vx death scenes )…

Kutsuu wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdEbIsY3eYk

If you get a second, tell me please – what’s the deal with all that info/feedback and input you’re receiving on screen:

Does it really help much?

Does it inhibit any sense of immersion you might be trying to achieve – is immersion something you even care about (competition > immersion)?

Does all that data even register with you (someone else mentioned becoming “blind” to it after a while)?

Do you keep up all that feedback when you’re in pve?

HOW IN THE WORLD ARE YOU ABLE TO FOCUS ON ANYTHING??? i'm imagining you have a stack of nootropics sitting by your rig...

Do you thing derrick rose’s back is gonna hold up the rest of the season?...sorry, due to my extreme esteem for you – I’m making a leap of faith that you just might know something about basketball too...

No worries at all, I enjoy helping people and this is a stress reliever for me to post on the forums and such.

I don't really have any special immersion for this information to detriment my enjoyment of the game. I prefer having essential information immediately available to me at all times and that's what I've setup with these addons. One thing I will say is it's a totally different experience WATCHING it vs actually playing it with the information on the screen. While it might look cluttered and confusing to you as a passive observer, I am actually having to control the character, break CCs, avoid burst combinations, and pay attention to rebuffing myself and making sure I don't dodge roll too often. Watching for animations on my character is actually a lot more stressful than having this information presented in an immediate way mostly because this game has so many flashy effects that often cover up what I want to see.

I keep only the most essential information in the center part of the HUD. You'll notice that only very important buffs are in a very visible place right next to my character, while nonessential buffs are way on the outside edges of the screen. I keep a special place for Dodge Roll Fatigue because it's extremely important to manage that carefully - dodge rolling more than once in 4 seconds can easily lead to an unnecessary death.

Another thing you're seeing conditionally is an addon that shows what AOE effects I'm being hit with, and what CCs I'm hit with. Sometimes in the heat of battle with a dozen things flying around you don't notice something terrible come into range like a destro ult and this helps to put attention where it counts.

You'll hear people claim that these addons remove skill from the game - that's their opinion... but I feel it makes information more readily available to me - I still have to ACT on it and there's where skill, both tactical and strategic comes into play.

Kutsuu · December 2016

As far as my comment on this thread's subject: I think the problem you're experiencing is an effect of watching vs playing. People who are watching game play don't care about how long you have left on your essential buffs, they don't care how long you have left on a major debuff. They don't care how long you have left on your DoT abilities against an enemy player. They don't care how long you have before dodge roll fatigue is over. They just want to see the fights and effects.

Sure, you can watch your buffs wear off and recast them at some point, but that's inefficient and can get you killed in competitive content (PVP, VMA, trials). There are times in VMA that having crit surge go down for even 2 seconds would cleanly get me killed, and it does take some time to swap bars and cast that buff. Also recasting it too often because I don't know how long is left on the buff is a loss of efficiency, I could have used that time to damage something or cast a different buff that needs to be refreshed.

Maybe there are amazing players out there who can simultaneously count the timers of a dozen abilities all in their head simultaneously and never get them mixed up, but I'm not one of them.

bareheiny · December 2016

geonsocal wrote: »

DannyLV702 · December 2016

Man you have no idea how much I hate hate hate hate seeing all those numbers pop up on screens. I'm glad I'm on console because I don't have to worry about cluttering up my screen just to remain competitive.

Kram8ion · December 2016

Yeah the less I have to read on screen the better for me, even the grouping giant block of red is even more annoying after the changes from launch (pvp)
I play stealthy and need to see all around me clearly especially that faint red cloud of a cloaked in the distance or out of the corner of my eye. Stats and damage output is really all that's necessary imo

geonsocal · December 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

While it might look cluttered and confusing to you as a passive observer, I am actually having to control the character, break CCs, avoid burst combinations, and pay attention to rebuffing myself and making sure I don't dodge roll too often. Watching for animations on my character is actually a lot more stressful than having this information presented in an immediate way mostly because this game has so many flashy effects that often cover up what I want to see.

I keep only the most essential information in the center part of the HUD. You'll notice that only very important buffs are in a very visible place right next to my character, while nonessential buffs are way on the outside edges of the screen. I keep a special place for Dodge Roll Fatigue because it's extremely important to manage that carefully - dodge rolling more than once in 4 seconds can easily lead to an unnecessary death.

Another thing you're seeing conditionally is an addon that shows what AOE effects I'm being hit with, and what CCs I'm hit with. Sometimes in the heat of battle with a dozen things flying around you don't notice something terrible come into range like a destro ult and this helps to put attention where it counts.

Kutsuu wrote: »

Sure, you can watch your buffs wear off and recast them at some point, but that's inefficient and can get you killed in competitive content (PVP, VMA, trials). There are times in VMA that having crit surge go down for even 2 seconds would cleanly get me killed, and it does take some time to swap bars and cast that buff. Also recasting it too often because I don't know how long is left on the buff is a loss of efficiency, I could have used that time to damage something or cast a different buff that needs to be refreshed.

Maybe there are amazing players out there who can simultaneously count the timers of a dozen abilities all in their head simultaneously and never get them mixed up, but I'm not one of them.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTij6MPOnghkBITMQpK2Zp6IEcPf112PuMbai5Basa35T3wlzLo

good stuff @Kutsuu ...wow, holy cow man...there's just so much stuff in your post that's never even crossed my mind while playing...
my-brain-is-melting?size=800

geonsocal · December 2016

Kram8ion wrote: »

Yeah the less I have to read on screen the better for me, even the grouping giant block of red is even more annoying after the changes from launch (pvp)
I play stealthy and need to see all around me clearly especially that faint red cloud of a cloaked in the distance or out of the corner of my eye. Stats and damage output is really all that's necessary imo

i'm with ya...i'll roll with a 24 person group and then after a while of being unable to really see what's going on in the upper left portion of my screen - i've just had enough...

scorpiodog · December 2016

I only use the scrolling on FTC when I'm trying to figure out what triggers what, and how much the effect is on that specific character. Otherwise I turn it off.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2016

Your ideal is exactly mine.
TMI is definately a player preference. It geez....I'd admit when on PC you often get ads-ons for this game cause you'd otherwise not know how many things never worked as intended.

You'd see obvious discrepancies on the tooltip vs gameplay but before SCT add-ons ppldisnt know

Now the photo below is too much for my taste. May as well be playing a doss game with only a desktop image that changes if u had all that going on. Lol
And yes I've played many other MMO games that had a ton of that.....which is why I loved this minimal UI during closed beta and especially after the add-on nerfs.

Cazic · December 2016

I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm all for the minimalist UI and I appreciate that ZOS has gone that direction with the stock UI in ESO. However in a multiplayer game, especially when you're trying to be competitive, there are benefits to having more information.

I use a couple addons such as Advanced UI and Combat Cloud to enhance the stock UI. These just add a level of customization and some additional information that I think is really helpful when considering your character stats, damage output, and how easy it is to see what's actually happening within combat situations.

Aside from the combat text from Combat Cloud, I try keep the main (middle) portion of the screen as clear as possible. All other UI elements are as much in the small outer portion of the screen as I can get them.

IronCrystal · December 2016

For those who are competitive, YES you need all that info. Knowing your buffs uptime is CRITICAL. As for the damage of each hit, I have that on because I glance at it every now and then to see what kind of hits I'm making, not where I'm focusing though.

While an empty UI is nice for single player games, it is useless in terms of info for me. I need to see what's happening to help improve my rotations or react to debuffs. Lack of info is often the reason people don't know how to DPS because they think they are doing a lot when in reality they are doing very little.

Recremen · December 2016

I really like the game's default UI and how minimalistic it is, but when it comes to competitive PvP and PvE, a more informative UI gives you an enormous edge. Minimalism is phenomenal for solo content, easy group content, and for taking a screenshot, but you've got to know things like where your group members are and what their health is at if you're going to do serious healing or anything like that.

dreddurius · December 2016

I still have to see an add-on that is non-intrusive. Good/effective UI design seems to be a thing of the past.

Slammer99uk · December 2016

no such thing as too much information

geonsocal · December 2016

Slammer99uk wrote: »

no such thing as too much information

oh man, it took me a few seconds to find you in that shot...

nice...too much of a good thing - is just enough

Zyrudin · December 2016

geonsocal wrote: »

howdy @Kutsuu sorry to keep bugging you on just about every post I make

truth is – I’m a bit of a fan of yours here on the forums …

I appreciate the fact that not only do you have a good understanding of end game mechanics – you seem like a pretty cool and kicked back person...also, you’re one of a very few whom can actually communicate all that knowledge to a more “basic” level player like myself…

I normally don’t watch too many videos of eso (cuz, I’m constantly playing eso myself – plus, I’m normally a participant/victim, and have a front row seat, on some of those spectacular 1vx death scenes )…

Kutsuu wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdEbIsY3eYk

If you get a second, tell me please – what’s the deal with all that info/feedback and input you’re receiving on screen:

Does it really help much?

Does it inhibit any sense of immersion you might be trying to achieve – is immersion something you even care about (competition > immersion)?

Does all that data even register with you (someone else mentioned becoming “blind” to it after a while)?

Do you keep up all that feedback when you’re in pve?

HOW IN THE WORLD ARE YOU ABLE TO FOCUS ON ANYTHING??? i'm imagining you have a stack of nootropics sitting by your rig...

Do you think derrick rose’s back is gonna hold up the rest of the season?...sorry, due to my extreme esteem for you – I’m making a leap of faith that you just might know something about basketball too...

If I may chip in here, let me just state that true immersion is not on your screen, it is not on graphics or sound either. Those are vehicles, triggers to be more precise, for your imagination, which is where immersion will always be.

Look at the beginning of RPG games, from tabletop and D&D to the early consoles: there were no realistic graphical representations for your imagination and still you could find immersion with just those cues or triggers.

Now if I was asked if people since then have lost imagination, that is, lost the ability to "imagine properly" within, I would answer affirmatively. This is due, in my opinion, to technological advances that cut back on imagination (and skill too, to a certain extent) requirements for entertainment and art.

Things are as they are though and I am not lingering in a nostalgic past - what I am trying to convey is that these add-ons show useful information that would be available on a sheet of paper back in the early tabletop RPG games and that immersion is not dependent on their absence at all. This game is faster than a tabletop, so the information must reach you on time and scroll away to make room for the next piece of information.

A part of you will play the numbers and the skill, while another will play the role if you like, simultaneously.

AnviOfVai · December 2016

Oh god is this PC View? what do you guys deal with?! you must suffer lag more than the rest of us, On PS4 its quite clean...Perhaps too clean...

I'm guessing you can modify your game to have your ability bars and things to the way you want them yes? Perhaps cut all that information down..surely you don't need all of it....(Perhaps PS4 does not have enough?!)

SWTOR HUD:

Not sure what this game is but my god how do you play?!

Kutsuu · December 2016

Now I will say that in other games, my HUD usually isn't this crowded. Most other games I play either have long duration buffs or have cooldowns on all your short duration buffs (usually longer than the duration) so you don't have to micromanage them as severely as ESO.