Unless you have a second forum account you sock with, it looks like you've made a total of two unique threads related to new ideas, one about dragons and one about dueling. Dragons would be cool, if in a bit of a lore gray area, and dueling is already here. So I'm not totally sure what you're talking about?

"Whilst i agree 100% with the sentiment behind your post, it's always better that if you're going to bang on about the bad/toxic attitude of others, that you yourself don't fill your own post with the very thing you're accusing others of doing. If you begin in a confrontational tone, then it can only end one way.
Edited by Prof_Bawbag on December 17, 2016 6:50PM"

This ^^^^

And

you lump quite a few things together so lets look at one...""omg not this again, zos can't get x right so why would they add y?"


See this one hits one key point, when you get ready to suggest something "new and exciting" it would behoove you to use the search feature first to see if your "new and exciting" has been suggested a dozen times before or more in long discussion threads going back and forth with details and specifics and levels of analysis your "hey y'all what if..." is light years behind.

or else... you run the risk of getting (and deservedly so) posts that lead with "OMG not this again..."

there was a thread recently on one of the often dead horsed topics where the re were one or two posters who thought they had this marvelous nobody ever thought of thing... which was of course the most immediately obvious one that had been done to death over and over in threads.

When suggested to go search the forums and see the very detailed backlog that had gone down this path... well no they persisted and after pages of their own "unique" approach wound up with the same "basic starting point" that many many previous threads had reached and which had been analyzed far further beyond that to no good resolution.

if you are serious about an idea and want to be treated seriously, you should do a little research, put in a minimal amount of work first before going broadband.

if you cant take your idea seriously enough to do the work before involving others, why should they treat your idea any more seriously than you did?

Seriously?

I think that most do want new classes. But I don't think Zos has any game design or plans to do this though. Maybe the much rumored warden. Truthfully the TES was based on plenty of choice, no true path through the game and plenty of players style options. I am a die hard MMO lover. But there is a major part of me that wishes they did not make this game and made another single player game. This is one of the most limited mmos on the market and it is post 3 years launch. I would have Gotten more out of a TES 6 then a shallow mmo wrapped in TES paper.

If repeating threads are beating a dead horse then the search function is emptying both barrels and driving to the glue factory.

You have to remember that this game is part of the Elder Scrolls series, and as such is governed for many players - including me - by the lore associated with that series. That is one important reason why people are resistant to change including the addition of new classes, races, weapons and the like. A lot of the suggestions people make simply wouldn't fit in with the established lore - not important for some, but critically important for others.

There are also a lot of players - not including me - who have a lot of issues with the game, be they performance-based or content-based including balancing for PvP etc, and for them it's far more important for the developers to fix the existing game rather than to add more things to it.

There's still no reason, of course, why you and others shouldn't post ideas and suggestions as to what you would like to see added to the game, but it can be difficult to get a calm and rational discussion going about such things especially if they have already been exhaustively discussed very many times before.

attackjet wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

attackjet wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Disagreement isn't always toxic. Sometimes people just don't want new things added. They may even have a legitimate reason for that. From their point of view, you are disagreeing with them. Even if you're polite about it, you would both share a differing point of view on the subject.

Personally, I don't think any new races or classes need to be added to the game. I try not to be too toxic when I disagree but it's up to the reader to determine if something is too toxic for them. Each person has a different tolerance which leads to complaints of toxic arguments, even if that was not the intention.

Thank you, very polite, its something we need more on these forums and in the game generally.

Why would you not want to see any new classes/races?

If I were to have a top 100 things I want added/fixed in the game, those two things simply don't make the list. The changes I put the greatest support behind currently are trait rebalancing and some sort of RNG relief. The races currently don't feel overly fleshed out as is. Adding more just wouldn't feel like it's accomplishing much and would likely be cash shop purchases, leading to potential pay to win situations. Rather than add more classes, I feel you could just drop classes altogether and add more skill trees and combinations to add a similar amount of variety without having to completely reroll a new character if a new class comes out, especially since I'd have to delete a toon to do it.

What if, in some fantastical imaginary world, this game didn't have the flaws it has now. Classes were balanced, lag wasn't an issue, RNG wasn't in the game, traits were unique to your play style (not just meta like sharpened), obtainable unique items that took time and skill to get (not just cash shop bs), basically, the game wasn't broken.

If this was all true (and trust me I know there's many more) and the game just worked, then, at that point, would you like to see a new race/new class?

The reason I want to see these, and many more new things of the like, is because I get very bored in this game. I understand, if you making a Stam character there is absolutely no point in using anything besides khajiit, wood elf or redgaurd. And that's just annoying.

I get what your saying now actually, that last sentence I wrote made me realize, its not about not wanting new classes, it about fixing the old imbalanced meta so we can see a new class or race.

All the hypothetical... I still wouldn't want new classes. I think new combat skill lines any class could use would be a much better thing, in a TES world.


New race? I'm indifferent

puffytheslayer wrote: »

while i agree with you @stevil re: the this horse has been well and truly flooged to death view.

im going to play devils advocate for a moment

suggestion X was made for example in 2014 during beta.; it was discussed by beta players, debated and decided against for Y reasons.
2 years later & a lot of people have startted playing the game who would like X implemented. and yet every time a new player or forum user sugeest X they are told 'no because Y'.
it doesnt matter how coherent/definative the argument of Y is, the fact is that new players want X. and they have the right to discuss it

regarding researching a topic, the search function on this forum is annoying. the generated results are in my experience useless, and inaccessable through my mobile decives.

Sorry but no... no where did i imply anyone doesn't have the right to discuss old topics.

My comments were about why its expected and reasonable to get "not this again" and less than serious replies if one chooses to not do a little research before throwing out an idea they think deserves consideration.

And no, its not always something discussed in 2014 beta and picked up two years later - its like the umpteenth time the same thread has come up in the last 9 months kind of things.

if someone bringing up an oft-discussed idea started with " i know this has been discussed and i have read many of the other threads but here is a new take on it that i believe may have merit..." that would be a reasonable (if true) starting point where "not this again" is less than appropriate.

IMO YMMV

and again for emphasis since folks seem to be able to read words not typed... the only folks who can decide who can and cannot post and what they can or cannot post are the mods and i aint one so nothing i say here or in the orginal post should be MISconstrued to be saying anyone shouldn't be allowed to discuss blah blah blah blah blah.

I like new things, new content, new items you can get in game, special events, wish they would add more to the game, even things I may not like there most likely be others that will, mmo's need something for as many play styles as possible.

@attackjet
"If this was all true (and trust me I know there's many more) and the game just worked, then, at that point, would you like to see a new race/new class?"

I am interested in a new class (three new skill lines packaged together" IF and ONLY IF they bring something new to the play that isn't there now, and that means something meaningful, not just new fx around the same solutions to the same problems.

i want to see cold brought up to the lightning and fire level to balance the elemental stuff but prefer to see it brought in as morph/passive chgs to sorc stoms.

i think you can look at MANY skills in active skills lines of classes and see one of the morphs is used in the vast majority of times... and that tells me there is lots of potential for addition thru changing existing rather than new classes.

Same for races: does it bring something new to the play? Does it succeed thru some different way of offense/defense/sustain than the others that makes for significant difference in play or will it be one of the others that are usually ignored for the most part?

new class/race smell wears off quick unless there are significant new play-canics involved that make it not just another exotic face.

Recremen wrote: »

Unless you have a second forum account you sock with, it looks like you've made a total of two unique threads related to new ideas, one about dragons and one about dueling. Dragons would be cool, if in a bit of a lore gray area, and dueling is already here. So I'm not totally sure what you're talking about?

Dragons aren't so much a gray area as something that's been beaten to death over the last couple years. Step back from Skyrim, and the utter absence of dragons was one of the more unusual things about Elder Scrolls, along with the Dwarves being an extinct race of elves.

So, when someone says, "hey, I fought dragons in Skyrim, I want dragons..." It doesn't really go over that well.

Also, yeah, any discussion of, "hey, I want to add a new race," usually starts with, "hey, dwarves!" And goes off the rails from there.

When it comes to new classes, that's not so much people are, usually, hostile to them. It's that we had devs saying that the Warden class was gone. Now, that's probably changed, but the official word was now new classes in the near future.

And... yeah, we've got dueling now. There were reasonable arguments against it. Ones mostly born out by the mess we've gotten, but... hey. *shrugs*

In general, it's not so much that people are hostile to new things. It's that they're hostile to specific things that don't fit the setting.

Love what you said. Screw those negative Nancy's! All new cool ideas I will definitely support!

alexkdd99 wrote: »

How many different game forums have you been apart of? This one is far from the most toxic. I will say lately it has been a little worse, but still far from the worst.

Finally I don't understand how you think a different opinion than the person making the thread is toxic. You just expect everyone to agree with whatever?

The examples you gave do not seem toxic to me or mean in any way.

Maybe people are happy with the way the game is and don't want it to change. Is that a bad thing?

Disagreeing does not mean someone is rude, just that they don't agree. Why would someone say, yea I like that let's add it to the game, if they don't like the idea and don't want it in the game.

By not commenting on those threads it may give zos the impression that the player base wants those features when in fact they do not. So if you think people voicing a different opinion is toxic I don't think you will find a forum that isn't, unless you go somewhere ran by dictators whose people are unable to have their own opinions.

If that is the case no one should have to explain that, this is something every parent should of taught their children before they are even in school, and this is something they should be learning in school, I am not trying to be rude here but it is really sad if someone actually considers that rude.