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So the devs ARE quite competent
Blackfyre20
✭✭✭✭
First I would just like to say that I quite enjoyed doing my writs on different characters this morning and being able to log out of each one in Craglorn without having to travel to another zone first. This was made possible by a fix on PS4 this morning which fixed a bug that wouldn't allow you to log out of a character in any zone with a logout timer. The bug was around for a couple weeks I want to say, and while it would've been nice if it never existed at all, it happens and was nice that it was fixed in a relatively short time period.
Now for the not so great part. Why is the dev team unable to implement such fixes for other, more detrimental problems in the game? Take proc sets for example. Everyone who plays the game and everyone working on the game unanimously agrees that these are broken. They have done irreparable damage to PvP when you think of players who have left or who won't enter Cyrodiil until they are fixed. So is it really necessary to wait 6 months for a fix or can we get more incremental patches that are somewhat meaningful? The best part is, if a change doesn't work out great apparently it is possible to revert or adjust that change in a relatively short time period. I'm also not talking about balance tweaks in skills, just things that are obviously and totally broken.
Now for the not so great part. Why is the dev team unable to implement such fixes for other, more detrimental problems in the game? Take proc sets for example. Everyone who plays the game and everyone working on the game unanimously agrees that these are broken. They have done irreparable damage to PvP when you think of players who have left or who won't enter Cyrodiil until they are fixed. So is it really necessary to wait 6 months for a fix or can we get more incremental patches that are somewhat meaningful? The best part is, if a change doesn't work out great apparently it is possible to revert or adjust that change in a relatively short time period. I'm also not talking about balance tweaks in skills, just things that are obviously and totally broken.
Buff Soft Caps
3
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andreasranasen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Did they fix the skill change issue? If not, i will go on a major rant when i get home.#VMATOKENSYSTEM #WEAPONDYE #TRAITCHANGE #CROWNCRATELOVER- Alliance/Platform: Aldemerii - PS4/NA - CP 800+
- Mag Sorc: Arya Rosendahl - Altmer - Highelf
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borgking✭✭✭Hard to sort out things when most of them are sitting on a beach in the seychelles sipping Pina colados0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As an aside, there's no good reason for there to be a logout timer in Belkarth in the first place."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle4 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭A compliment followed by a criticism is not a compliment at all it is merely a gateway to a complaint.
#trolled
#enoughaboutprocsetsalready5 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some are, sure. But some are most definitely not imo.
I don't think blaming the Dev's for having a budget while not being able to patch frequently is their faults. From a PvE perspective the developers just keep delivering. Its only pvp thats a mess and its only a mess for top tier pvpers who know where the faults are. Most new pvpers have no idea and go with the flow.PS4 NA DC4 -
Runs✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Blackfyre20 wrote: »First I would just like to say that I quite enjoyed doing my writs on different characters this morning and being able to log out of each one in Craglorn without having to travel to another zone first. This was made possible by a fix on PS4 this morning which fixed a bug that wouldn't allow you to log out of a character in any zone with a logout timer. The bug was around for a couple weeks.
This bug has been around since before August on PC for users of the gamepad mode., and still hasn't been fixed. Nor do I believe they have any intention of fixing it for PC's gamepad users.Runs| Orc Nightblade • Chim-el Adabal| Dunmer Templar • M'air the Honest| Khajiit Templar
Oddity| Altmer Sorceror • Drizlo| Orc DragonKnight • Lady Ra Gada| Redguard Sorceror
Taste-of-Hist-Sap| Argonian Nightblade • War'den Peace| Khajiit Warden • Little Warden Annie Altmer Warden
Ports with Blood| Breton Templar • Dirty-Old-Man| Dunmer DragonKnight • Eyes-of-the-Sun| Argonian DragonKnight
Bleak Mystique| Nord Warden • Polychronopolous| Imperial Sorceror • Bullcrit| Khajiit Nightblade
PC NA CP 1250+ and still a noob
At Writs End - A place to complete master writs2 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some are, sure. But some are most definitely not imo.
You have no basis to judge someone's competence if you don't have experience in their field.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hahaha.
Good joke.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
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The only thing noticeable is when things go wrong. No one regardless of their skill or talent is capable of perfection. If the Devs truly were incompetent at their work there wouldn't be an ESO to begin with.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!3 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
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Lol yes you do, we've seen them develop this game for years now, that's plenty of time to judge whether or not someone is good at something. I don't have to be a professional basketball player to know whether or not Michael Jordan was good, and I don't have to be a game developer to know that zos is bad at what they do.2013
rip decibel2 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭
Lol yes you do, we've seen them develop this game for years now, that's plenty of time to judge whether or not someone is good at something. I don't have to be a professional basketball player to know whether or not Michael Jordan was good, and I don't have to be a game developer to know that zos is bad at what they do.
Seen them for years? Been complaining about their incompetence for years. Still playing for years.
Either you're spouting off falsehoods, or you have a personal issue. That's like eating at a fast food place that constantly undercooks food.
In the case of a fast food place, would you take someone seriously, if they said a place has bad food, yet continues to eat there? Why should we take you seriously in the case of ESO?
If you were in another MMO's forums saying this, you'd have credibility.1 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyMuffin wrote: »
I don't have to have a medical degree to know that if drs death rate is 100pc then perhaps I should seek another doctor when Iill. Nor do I need a building qualification to say that a brick wall which fell over wasn't built properly in the first place. I don't need to be worlds greatest cook to know if something tastes bad....and so on. To say you can only judge someone if you have done their job puts us in a world where service gets increasing poor as no one can ever express an opinion on anything other than their exact job, and those doing the job have little reason to do it any better.
.
You're not wrong.
But what does it say about a person who goes to a doctor knowing it will result in malpractice, or someone who goes to a bad restaurant noted for its horrendous food. Should we take that one seriously? Or even at face value?
There's issues with the game to be sure. But to call the devs incompetent and still play doesn't make your opinions believable.
In addition to having a basis for judgement you have to have something to compare. No one's given that comparison. probably for the reason I've outlined. They're not being serious and lack conviction. I mean if you made the statement "ZOS is incompetent" on another game forum that you were actively playing, you'd have a bit more credibility.
Coding a game, and running a network is alot different than making good food or building a brick wall. With food and masonry you simply follow a standard and it works more or less. With coding.. you're effectively doing something that hasn't been done before (if you're not, you're likely plagiarizing). ESO isn't just taking Skyrim and adding network support. Even if you tried it like that. How do you tell who has what item? How do you tell where someone is versus someone else? You have to have methods to track everyone's items, their position, their movement, how they interact with the environment, who gets priority when both hit E on something, how they interact with each other, and the list goes on and on. Getting it all right isn't simply following a standard. You have to make the standard. Its like when Sneferu had to build 2 pyramids to get the third one right. It was never done in such a manner before.
With networks, they work when there is not a problem. No one complains.. no one compliments you either. I know this personally having been in the Army Signal Corps. When the shot is working. Its normal. When something breaks (and it WILL break, even if you do everything right). Everyone complains. Fixes aren't as simple as flipping a switch, you have to identify what broke, why it broke, and then replace/repair it. Network is down or degraded until that happens.
I haven't seen any proof of incompetence in either networking or coding. The game runs, bugs are minimal, and all features work. The networking side also works with the exception of a slow down recently during peak hours. This can be attributed most likely to an overload on the server.
This sounds more like a bureaucratic problem than one of incompetence in either the coders or the networking crew. They need more hardware to lighten the load across the clusters. That requires allocation. No developer has authority in that venue.
Simply put, the maintenance DID fix the issues. I saw it personally. When I logged in after my average ping dropped from 120-150 to 80-90. That's not incompetence. It started with its issues during peak time. In my professional opinion, that's not because someone derped over a cord. Its because of an increased load.
Now this could be some sort of networking issue that compounds with the increased population during peak hours. That's totally a possibility. But if you're going to make a claim of incompetence and a borderline personal attack against a developer (which many of you don't have the gall to name them), at least have some facts to back it up. Otherwise it is merely conjecture.4 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyMuffin wrote: »
I don't have to have a medical degree to know that if drs death rate is 100pc then perhaps I should seek another doctor when Iill. Nor do I need a building qualification to say that a brick wall which fell over wasn't built properly in the first place. I don't need to be worlds greatest cook to know if something tastes bad....and so on. To say you can only judge someone if you have done their job puts us in a world where service gets increasing poor as no one can ever express an opinion on anything other than their exact job, and those doing the job have little reason to do it any better.
.
You're not wrong.
But what does it say about a person who goes to a doctor knowing it will result in malpractice, or someone who goes to a bad restaurant noted for its horrendous food. Should we take that one seriously? Or even at face value?
There's issues with the game to be sure. But to call the devs incompetent and still play doesn't make your opinions believable.
In addition to having a basis for judgement you have to have something to compare. No one's given that comparison. probably for the reason I've outlined. They're not being serious and lack conviction. I mean if you made the statement "ZOS is incompetent" on another game forum that you were actively playing, you'd have a bit more credibility.
Coding a game, and running a network is alot different than making good food or building a brick wall. With food and masonry you simply follow a standard and it works more or less. With coding.. you're effectively doing something that hasn't been done before (if you're not, you're likely plagiarizing). ESO isn't just taking Skyrim and adding network support. Even if you tried it like that. How do you tell who has what item? How do you tell where someone is versus someone else? You have to have methods to track everyone's items, their position, their movement, how they interact with the environment, who gets priority when both hit E on something, how they interact with each other, and the list goes on and on. Getting it all right isn't simply following a standard. You have to make the standard. Its like when Sneferu had to build 2 pyramids to get the third one right. It was never done in such a manner before.
With networks, they work when there is not a problem. No one complains.. no one compliments you either. I know this personally having been in the Army Signal Corps. When the shot is working. Its normal. When something breaks (and it WILL break, even if you do everything right). Everyone complains. Fixes aren't as simple as flipping a switch, you have to identify what broke, why it broke, and then replace/repair it. Network is down or degraded until that happens.
I haven't seen any proof of incompetence in either networking or coding. The game runs, bugs are minimal, and all features work. The networking side also works with the exception of a slow down recently during peak hours. This can be attributed most likely to an overload on the server.
This sounds more like a bureaucratic problem than one of incompetence in either the coders or the networking crew. They need more hardware to lighten the load across the clusters. That requires allocation. No developer has authority in that venue.
Simply put, the maintenance DID fix the issues. I saw it personally. When I logged in after my average ping dropped from 120-150 to 80-90. That's not incompetence. It started with its issues during peak time. In my professional opinion, that's not because someone derped over a cord. Its because of an increased load.
Now this could be some sort of networking issue that compounds with the increased population during peak hours. That's totally a possibility. But if you're going to make a claim of incompetence and a borderline personal attack against a developer (which many of you don't have the gall to name them), at least have some facts to back it up. Otherwise it is merely conjecture.
We've had bugs that are in the game for years, the balance was way better in earlier patches. Major issues get adressed every 3-4 months. Found bugs and issues on the PTS for the next patch? Doesn't even get adressed in most cases.
Cyrodiil has been lagging badly for over two years now. No fix in sight, not any improvements worth mentioning. If that is not a sign of incompetence I don't know what else.
Don't misunderstand, the game is great, they do amazing stuff. I still play it after all. But that doesn't mean I can't mention what is not working. And there is quite a bit of that stuff. And while PvE is on a high these days, PvP has only known the downhill direction since launch almost 3 years ago.
Edited by Wollust on December 15, 2016 10:45AMSusano'o
Zerg Squad3 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do I like ragging on the devs? No, I dont. I dont enjoy ridiculing people for making mistakes, I know what it is like to be put in a position where you get to take abuse for your work.
But when repeated issues like the now 3 day lag fest going on, the ages of design waha, the balance that has gone over the past two years....Sometimes you gotta sit down and accept that the people in charge are not doing a good job and wont take your criticism to heart.
When that happens, what recourse do we have to make them understand aside from ceaseless mockery?1 -
[Deleted User]Soul ShrivenThe user and all related content has been deleted.Edited by [Deleted User] on December 15, 2016 11:30AM0
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Riejael✭✭✭✭✭We've had bugs that are in the game for years, the balance was way better in earlier patches. Major issues get adressed every 3-4 months. Found bugs and issues on the PTS for the next patch? Doesn't even get adressed in most cases.
Game balance is always an interesting thing. If the classes only had 5 class abilities each. Making up 4 combinations you could play, it'd be easy to balance. But with the combinations of weapons, armor, and such, players are always going to find stuff that was unintended.
Priorities are always something that has to be juggled. Is skill a on templar better than b on nightblade? If so bring them in line.. but only once problem c is dealt with. Once c is dealt with, move on to balance as long as problem d isn't worse.
That's what you're likely seeing. Balance doesn't get priority unless its bad, like really bad. Like when a build is changed and then becomes defunct. Like outright unusable. I've not seen this. I've not seen this issue pop up in over 12 years. When certain classes in EQ were ignored by groups, or specs in vanilla or early BC WoW.
So unless that happens, you're going to see slow balance changes if other things need more attention. This is why you see nerfs before buffs. Crafty players exploit the system and find something OP and it will be reigned in before 'under performing' stuff is buffed. Every company does this. Every company is blamed for balance issues. I'd wager you can't find a MMORPG that doesn't have 'balance issues'.Cyrodiil has been lagging badly for over two years now. No fix in sight, not any improvements worth mentioning. If that is not a sign of incompetence I don't know what else.
I've played Massively Open World PVP games before. This is just a said truth of limits in technology. One thing they could try is how Planetside 2 handles it. But that would be a huge undertaking. Basically what PS2 does is it measures how many players are in an area. It LIMITs how many players can be seen on your screen at one time. It uses an algorithm to figure WHO is shown based on distance and threat level.
Sounds simply enough. Yeah it took SOE/Daybreak 3 years to get it where it is now and its still not perfect. But it works. Basically if there is 300 players in a base, you will NOT see someone beyond 40 meters. This isn't a terribly bad system if you're in buildings. But out in the open its weird because you see players pop in front of you.
They've tweaked it so snipers will show up a little further out, as well as infantry carrying AV weapons (since vehicles get greased if they get too close). As well as other factors. Game works great in 100vs100 fights and lower. When you get 100vs100vs100 or 200vs200 or other crazy numbers.. it gets to be a grindfest.
But as I've said, it took them 3 years to make it where it is now. And they're still improving on it.
There's no incompetence here. Planetside 2 and ESO are the only two games that have massive maps with three factions, and with a level of detail in the models and textures like these games have. They can't just make it A+B=C and its fixed. They just have to keep trying till something works. If it can with the engine and specs they've chosen.Don't misunderstand, the game is great, they do amazing stuff. I still play it after all. But that doesn't mean I can't mention what is not working. And there is quite a bit of that stuff. And while PvE is on a high these days, PvP has only known the downhill direction since launch almost 3 years ago.
Nothing wrong with identifying a problem. Nothing wrong with basic criticism. But I'll guarantee when you're at a fast food place or dine in restaurant, you don't call your server incompetent, stupid, or other names people like to use in these forums. You indicate a mistake and they graciously fix it for you. And if they don't adequately fix it, you take your business elsewhere.
Not suggesting you do this, but many people in forums like this and other games will atrociously attack devs. They won't do this to people who serve them in RL, I think its due to hiding behind a screen. That and bandwagoning.0 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Riejael
1) Ofc I'm not saying reaching a more balanced state is easy. Not at all, and true balance is impossible in a game with this many variables. But we've had patches where we were much closer to balance just to then ruin it by releasing completely overperforming sets (that were reported on the PTS) and by making incredibly dumb and powerful abilities (that were reported on the PTS). So yes, this is a point that can be criticized. And I'm aware that this applies to many MMOs, not only ESO. But sometimes, the blame lies on the people that decide to create completely broken stuff and then don't even bother listening to the communities feedback, or if so, it takes them 4 months to do something about. Case here: Proc sets and destro ult. Completely over performing, ruining any sort of skillful PvP. The outcry is massive. They have acknowledged the issue, but they won't bother fixing it beforehand even though it's doing so much harm to an already beaten part of the game.
2) I don't know how long you've been around, and the points you make are all fair and good but here is the issue: ESO used to not lag. The population caps for one alliance back then were something like 1.5 to 2 times the population caps for all three alliances together these days. The game worked fine, there was huge zergs (you can't even begin to imagine the numbers) and fights everywhere and the game worked. But after the infamous lighting/anti bot patch, all that was screwed up. And instead of reverting those patches and try it another way, they went on with it. And since that day Cyrodiil has been plagued by the lag. And since then ZoS also changed their direction. While Cyrodiil and the alliance war was main point of their whole marketing campaign pre-release, that has changed today. PvP doesn't even get mentioned much anywhere because ZoS has quite obviously given up on it and because it's in an awful state.
3) Believe me, me and many others wouldn't be around anymore if there was a viable alternative. But there isn't. Even with all the issues, ESO is still the best PvP MMO out there (for its kind, open world and stuff).
Many players left for BDO, many of them came back. Many players will leave for Crowfall or Camelot Unchained, and depending on how those games perform, they might not come back this time. But that is in the near-far future.
Susano'o
Zerg Squad2 -
xX_NachtJager_xx✭✭✭Here's how you fix proc sets in PVP.
Don't play PVPCP460 Magsorc, Stamblade, Templar Healer, DK Tank. AKA the drunken nord0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyMuffin wrote: »
I don't have to have a medical degree to know that if drs death rate is 100pc then perhaps I should seek another doctor when Iill. Nor do I need a building qualification to say that a brick wall which fell over wasn't built properly in the first place. I don't need to be worlds greatest cook to know if something tastes bad....and so on. To say you can only judge someone if you have done their job puts us in a world where service gets increasing poor as no one can ever express an opinion on anything other than their exact job, and those doing the job have little reason to do it any better.
.You're not wrong.
But what does it say about a person who goes to a doctor knowing it will result in malpractice, or someone who goes to a bad restaurant noted for its horrendous food. Should we take that one seriously? Or even at face value?
There's issues with the game to be sure. But to call the devs incompetent and still play doesn't make your opinions believable.
In addition to having a basis for judgement you have to have something to compare. No one's given that comparison. probably for the reason I've outlined. They're not being serious and lack conviction. I mean if you made the statement "ZOS is incompetent" on another game forum that you were actively playing, you'd have a bit more credibility.
Coding a game, and running a network is alot different than making good food or building a brick wall. With food and masonry you simply follow a standard and it works more or less. With coding.. you're effectively doing something that hasn't been done before (if you're not, you're likely plagiarizing). ESO isn't just taking Skyrim and adding network support. Even if you tried it like that. How do you tell who has what item? How do you tell where someone is versus someone else? You have to have methods to track everyone's items, their position, their movement, how they interact with the environment, who gets priority when both hit E on something, how they interact with each other, and the list goes on and on. Getting it all right isn't simply following a standard. You have to make the standard. Its like when Sneferu had to build 2 pyramids to get the third one right. It was never done in such a manner before.
With networks, they work when there is not a problem. No one complains.. no one compliments you either. I know this personally having been in the Army Signal Corps. When the shot is working. Its normal. When something breaks (and it WILL break, even if you do everything right). Everyone complains. Fixes aren't as simple as flipping a switch, you have to identify what broke, why it broke, and then replace/repair it. Network is down or degraded until that happens.
I haven't seen any proof of incompetence in either networking or coding. The game runs, bugs are minimal, and all features work. The networking side also works with the exception of a slow down recently during peak hours. This can be attributed most likely to an overload on the server.
This sounds more like a bureaucratic problem than one of incompetence in either the coders or the networking crew. They need more hardware to lighten the load across the clusters. That requires allocation. No developer has authority in that venue.
Simply put, the maintenance DID fix the issues. I saw it personally. When I logged in after my average ping dropped from 120-150 to 80-90. That's not incompetence. It started with its issues during peak time. In my professional opinion, that's not because someone derped over a cord. Its because of an increased load.
Now this could be some sort of networking issue that compounds with the increased population during peak hours. That's totally a possibility. But if you're going to make a claim of incompetence and a borderline personal attack against a developer (which many of you don't have the gall to name them), at least have some facts to back it up. Otherwise it is merely conjecture.
We've had bugs that are in the game for years, the balance was way better in earlier patches. Major issues get adressed every 3-4 months. Found bugs and issues on the PTS for the next patch? Doesn't even get adressed in most cases.
Cyrodiil has been lagging badly for over two years now. No fix in sight, not any improvements worth mentioning. If that is not a sign of incompetence I don't know what else.
Don't misunderstand, the game is great, they do amazing stuff. I still play it after all. But that doesn't mean I can't mention what is not working. And there is quite a bit of that stuff. And while PvE is on a high these days, PvP has only known the downhill direction since launch almost 3 years ago.
Mentioning what isn't working, and making things personal by judging a person's ability to do what they no doubt love to do are two VERY different things. The former is constructive and informative, the latter is nothing short of becoming a schoolyard bully saying "You suck at what you do."CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭3) Believe me, me and many others wouldn't be around anymore if there was a viable alternative. But there isn't. Even with all the issues, ESO is still the best PvP MMO out there (for its kind, open world and stuff).
Give Planetside 2 a shot. Its the best PVP game I've played. I'll dare say its the only true PVP game I've played (match based games simply don't count since there's no consequences).
It is a First Person Shooter, but the maps play just like Cyrodil. And it handles a larger number of players (holds the world record of 1100 players in a single battle). Performance can degrade in highly populated regions, but you can move to another side of the map to avoid that if needed.1 -
drakhan2002_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Blackfyre20 wrote: ». Everyone who plays the game and everyone working on the game unanimously agrees that these are broken...
Speak for yourself. You don't speak for me. "unanimously agrees" is pretty broad and not everyone agrees with you.0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭3) Believe me, me and many others wouldn't be around anymore if there was a viable alternative. But there isn't. Even with all the issues, ESO is still the best PvP MMO out there (for its kind, open world and stuff).
Give Planetside 2 a shot. Its the best PVP game I've played. I'll dare say its the only true PVP game I've played (match based games simply don't count since there's no consequences).
It is a First Person Shooter, but the maps play just like Cyrodil. And it handles a larger number of players (holds the world record of 1100 players in a single battle). Performance can degrade in highly populated regions, but you can move to another side of the map to avoid that if needed.
Not to mention it has Base Building mechanics for those who get tired of the back and forth firefights. It's like playing an RTS in first person.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0
