(Insert thoughtful comment about getting what you worked for, avoiding trolling, even when I played such MMOs there was no interaction such as OP stated, here)

I just don't have it in me. I dislike the idea of relying on others to get that BSW necklace when it finally does drop, or that sharpened inferno staff.

For some reason everything you said just sounds like an excuse to ninja loot, if not then disregard.

Betheny wrote: »

People moved to solo play because ----other people----

BINGO! We have a winner.

BTW OP, the reason loot tables went to individual players is because other people kept stealing the loot. Even under a need/greed roll system, people would roll on items just to steal them from others. And despite what you may be thinking, third party rolls and dkp systems are far from fair or "on the level". Individual loot tables actually gave people a chance to get even the basic gear they need without having to run the same content fifty times or more.

I play solo mostly because I have no friends ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At least no one who plays regularly anymore

Coming from an MMO in which loot was not fairly shared, I'd have to say that it is quite the opposite for me. I got so tired of people stealing loot that I started soloing everything that I could solo (and avoiding all else). I find it quite refreshing here that you don't have to worry about something like that.

Why I play solo here is the same reason as a few others have stated - I play how I want to play, and dislike conforming to the mainstream. I probably don't do high enough DPS for most people and my healing is certainly second rate as well (I only really pull out the resto staff at world bosses), but overall I have fun and that is what matters to me. So I just avoid group activities because groups don't want players that aren't the best of the best these days.

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I came from a game that the highest dps got the loot competition for boss drops was huge. Healers had to make dps toons just to get anything bc there heals did not count, same for tanks. This made the game 90% dps. ESO was a breath of fresh air compared to that.

Also took 3 months of none stop grind with a group of 7 ppl called a perfect party to go from 58-59 to get to the next grind spot, was such hell

Wow, what a horrible horrible mechanic. You really have to wonder sometimes what the developers motivations are when things like this happen.

I've always been a solo player and always will prefer this type of gaming. You don't need to beg for some help on a mission/quest so your progress isn't halted. You don't have to worry about account theft or in game spam via chat or insults in whispers etc etc.

However:

I love quest style games and games that are constantly growing.
I tried an MMO because I was tempted by a dare and took the bait. I am regretful sometimes. lol

I think that the reasons for the increase of solo players are not found in the games but in society and humanity.

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

One of the major reasons is that loot dropped, goes to everyone, fair share of loot.

What this means is, you no longer have to make connections with people to be sure everyone is fair and possibly give you the loot because you need it. With loot being separate for everyone it also takes away the interaction, and no interaction leads to no connection with others, and having no connections leads to playing solo.

There's many reasons why MMORPGs went from playing with others to being a solo game, but I think this is one of the major reasons why.

As others have pointed out. This isn't true.

Play a game with loot distributed by the group. You get a piece of loot for you to drop and it goes to someone else's offspec, alt, breakdown, vendored ect. How is that fair? Well it isn't.

No.. the culture of gaming changed around 2005. Many will try to tag WoW with the blame. WoW didn't start the trend, I saw it as far back as Everquest. What had happened is a younger crowd got into MMOs. Not because they were young was it a problem. Its the values they were taught that is the problem. This culture of participation gets an award.

When I initially played Online games starting back in '97 there was a group mindset. Work together with your unit, clan, group, and later guild (in MMORPGs) to obtain a common goal or objective. When you downed a boss, the loot went to the one who would benefit the group as a whole. Eventually this method had to be streamlined a bit to measure a variety of factors once groups got rather large. In EQ it wasn't uncommon to field raid groups of up to 60-75 players. Who got what? Well they had a system to reward players based on a variety of factors, if anyone knows about the old DKP system you'll know what I'm speaking of.

So coupled with the idea of LARGE raid groups (WoW started at 40man) with this new culture, there was a lack of.. personal attachment to the group. You were a number basically and showing up meant you got loot. Lets be honest.. raid members in early EQ/WoW raiding did NOT require much personal skill. Just getting numbers to show up, cure debuffs, and maybe not stand in fire once in a while.

Raiding was always the epitome of endgame. Everyone strived to be raid ready, even if they didn't raid. Its how you were measured, its how you were compared to others, the ability to do what a raid needed determined your worth as a player.

Now when in random groups, get the piece of loot and get out. You're not going to see those 'plebs' again once you meet your goal. Hell this happened even before group finders were introduced, and as early as 2003 in Planes of Power-EQ.

As you can imagine, this evolved over time until we're here in 2016. Its not that we don't have the tools to build personal relationships with other players. Hell.. we've got 5 guilds we can join and a friendlist. Not to mention 3rd party VOIP. The technology and methods are there for us to use. Why not use them?

Well some of us do. Before I came back to ESO, I went back to WoW for the Legion expansion. Got into a decent raiding guild and their loot system was pretty good. Instead of using personal loot, they decided to hand it out like normal. The idea was to give the upgrades to those who needed it. With the caveat that it helped the entire group. No complaints, raids were done pretty well.. well enough I got bored and came here unfortunately. Well not really, I was looking to play an action MMO instead.

Either way I'm sure some groups do exactly that here as well. Many run Vets and Trials together on a normal basis. If you're running through the group finder and don't speak. Well don't expect to make lasting impressions. It will feel like you're soloing. And that is because you are. It is a personal choice.

There is no evidence to support you have to solo in ESO. There's no evidence to suggest that group minded players will solo instead of build relationships and group. The players who solo, want to solo. They don't want to group. Forcing them to group will mean they will go elsewhere. You can't get a solo player to have a grouping relationship with you. Doesn't work that way.

And to say loot or whatever is the cause is false. I don't group to get loot. I get loot to do content. Loot is a tool. Some may not see it that way. But they play how they wish. Not because its forced on them. They may use certain mechanics as an excuse, but in reality we're in control of our own decisions. And we ultimately play how we want to.

Betheny wrote: »

People moved to solo play because ----other people----

Exactly this.

(Some) people just want to "git gud", are friendly with others just to copy/paste their builds and playstyle and get carried through instances. As soon as they're "better" than others, they start calling those "others" names ranging from "bad" to "noobs" and "scrubs" and accuse them of getting carried. As a result they get isolated and end up playing solo or PUGging.
In PvP, they start zerging to learn the ropes, then start 1vXing and accuse other people of zerging.

That being said, just like everywhere in Tamriel and in real life, there ARE nice people, there ARE guilds that are well-run with a strong identity and great values that prevent the vicious circle from prevailing. You just have to keep on looking for them without giving up.

I think there are many factors, lets go down a simple list we can all understand and relate to in order.
1. Developers wanted to attract everyone instead of loyal customers therefor making mmorpgs much more casual and easy mode. But usually ends up backfiring.
2. People complained and complained about group oriented mmorpgs not being solo friendly even though there where several solo classes that did quite while.
3. Easier to balance around endgame vs actually balancing around group content for all levels.
4. Now fast foward some years and we have new reasons, people are more toxic in gaming as more people game more then ever including online gaming.
5. No patience for grouping with these kinds of people who waste everyones time.
6. Less time for gaming in general especially these days, therefor no time for setting up groups and doing group content all the time.
7. Mmorpgs copying wow which was more casually friendly then any mmorpg I played before and in resulting in allot of bad clones.
8. In my experience some mmorpgs become more casual as they die out.


Now eso is far from any of this in my opinion. I think it is allot more group oriented then I have seen in mmos for a while.

"I remember when forced grouping was so rigorously implied in MMO design that you'd need forty people to do a thing. Oh, sure, they wouldn't actually have social skills, nor would they interact much. But by golly gum, son, there were forty people standing in a place. What's that? How's that different from a town? Well, we were all pressing buttons! And we were doing routines. When he clicked this button, I clicked that button, and then someone else clicked a button. Oh, those were the days!"

No. No thank you.

Forced grouping was never a good idea. It still isn't a good idea. It will never be a good idea. It's just forcing people together becuase they don't have the social skills to work together without game mechanics forcing them. Sociopaths ruled the roost, and you had to worship them or nothing would get done. It was the dark ages of online gaming. No one in their right mind would want to go back to that unless... Unless they're a specific kind of person, we'll just say that.

Frankly, I wish ESO would drop group dungeons as it is. Sure, with the right cookie-cutter builds you can get through with just two people, but needing those builds isn't fun. And that's still forced grouping, it's a place where sociopaths and people with no social skills fester. If you have social skills, and you aren't a crazy sociopath, then you're not going to have trouble making friends. And if you're an introvert and you're just asocial (which is different to antisocial), then that works out too.

Whenever forced grouping is lessened (and even removed), everyone wins. Everyone except for the sociopaths.

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I think there are many factors, lets go down a simple list we can all understand and relate to in order.
1. Developers wanted to attract everyone instead of loyal customers therefor making mmorpgs much more casual and easy mode. But usually ends up backfiring.

Newp. MMORPG community was degrading by 2003-2004 in Everquest. That Gates of Discord and Omens of War expansions were the HARDEST in EQ's history. I actually decided to jump ship to WoW when it released later that year because of a better community.

Used to see groups break up in Bastion of Thunder (PoP expansion in EQ) because a Glyphed Rune Word dropped and everyone argued who should get it.

Seen raid groups kill still or break 'agreements' to get an edge another during raid encounters (they were no instanced).

Saw an increase in 'training' (dragging mobs over groups) to cause wipes to take over popular farming spots.

Elitism and Jealousy were increasing. One time I was in a group with a level 63 rogue with a group of 65s. Due to the limits of the UI, they had no idea I was 2 levels lower. The parsers (damage meters basically, a 3rd party program that would in realtime analyze the combat log .txt file) showed my DPS as quite good, highest in the group. Someone /con (the consider command, used to judge the strength of a PC or NPC in relation to your own). They saw my character as blue to them which meant under their level. Even though the group was not advertised as 65+ group, and even though I had the DPS (and the mobs were blue and white to me, named were red, but barely). They still removed me. This wouldn't have been a bad thing. But in EQ back then you couldn't teleport as a rogue, the area we were in relied on a wizard/druid to get to safely. So I had an interesting time getting back to a town. Dying back then meant your gear was left on a corpse that would rot in a few days. Not a fun time.

All these things blamed on casual friendly WoW. Yet were happening before WoW. And didn't really happen in WoW until quite a bit into its future. In my personal experience, not until Burning Crusade, its first expansion. 3-4 years after the D-baggery was happening in EQ.

Bearing in mind that most people come to MMOs from single-player RPGs, and that most players are sitting alone at their computer relying on other activities for their social life, it's arguable that the only reason grouping was so popular in the early days of MMOs is because it was the only way of playing those games that was viable.Once developers made the games easier for the soloer most players switched to the playstyle they may well have preferred from the outset - especially now that with a number of years playing MMOs behind them they have reached the stage in life where family, work and other responsibilities mean they can no longer make the sort of commitment to fellow players that used to be necessary for example when camping a spot in early EQ with a couple of minutes downtime for mana and health regeneration between each fight! It's not just the games that have evolved, the players have too.