Gap Closers Need a Cooldown

Chori · December 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Yes , even as a nightblade I find spambushing incredibly annoying and cheesy . Same with ping pong ball crit Rush goobers .

Yet ambush has been nerfed and cost increased a couple times already, and its clunky af. Have you ever tried lotus fan or ambush into someone who was initially on your range but after you cast they were not anymore? Your character stands on the same place rising your arms to do the ambush like wuuuuut and nothing happens, meanwhile if you do this on a regular 2h skill like crit rush and you spam it your chances are you will end up macroslicing someone.

Crit rush for a few patches has been more reliable and also stronger dmg wise if the person knows how to use it. The only good thing about ambush right now, is the empower. It doesnt even follow or teleport to for example top of rocks and stuff like crit rush does. They ruined the skill and if it wasnt for the silly empower, it would be named useless.

If it had a timer they could increase it back , making it useful again but without the spam .

Not about increasing damage, eventho it its like a wet noodle they balanced the skill around the empower and follow-up, they made the skill clunky as hell after their gap closing into keeps fix. If we put cooldowns to gap closers might as well put a cooldown to every other repetitive skill as well, and at that point we might as well go play a cooldown based asian mmo. People needs to stop complaining about that stuff and l2p/adapt, changing the fast phased pvp of this game which is the good thing and different thing ESO has compared to other games, asking this kind of stuff is like putting more nails to ESO's PVP coffin.

omgiztim · December 2016

I say keep the snare, keep the damage, no cool down, just lower the range from 28 meters to 10. Melee should not be able to gap close as much as a range attack. The game lacks good range vs melee combat.

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

Rohaus wrote: »

Cool downs should never ever be a thing for a game with such limited amount of abilities.

WoW has cool downs on abilities but that is because you have 30+ abilities to execute.

Imagine for a moment the combat Nick originally tried for here . Seeing a heavy attack and being able to react and counter with a bash . Getting ambushed and having a chance to break free and counter with a spell or a weapon . A game where you react to combat instead of rolling your face accross a keyboard . Spammable abilities do not require skill and animation canceling while maybe a skill to some , removes the play / counter play skill . I enjoy combat you can react to . Not just pressing a couple of keys as fast as you can .

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Yes , even as a nightblade I find spambushing incredibly annoying and cheesy . Same with ping pong ball crit Rush goobers .

Yet ambush has been nerfed and cost increased a couple times already, and its clunky af. Have you ever tried lotus fan or ambush into someone who was initially on your range but after you cast they were not anymore? Your character stands on the same place rising your arms to do the ambush like wuuuuut and nothing happens, meanwhile if you do this on a regular 2h skill like crit rush and you spam it your chances are you will end up macroslicing someone.

Crit rush for a few patches has been more reliable and also stronger dmg wise if the person knows how to use it. The only good thing about ambush right now, is the empower. It doesnt even follow or teleport to for example top of rocks and stuff like crit rush does. They ruined the skill and if it wasnt for the silly empower, it would be named useless.

If it had a timer they could increase it back , making it useful again but without the spam .

Not about increasing damage, eventho it its like a wet noodle they balanced the skill around the empower and follow-up, they made the skill clunky as hell after their gap closing into keeps fix. If we put cooldowns to gap closers might as well put a cooldown to every other repetitive skill as well, and at that point we might as well go play a cooldown based asian mmo. People needs to stop complaining about that stuff and l2p/adapt, changing the fast phased pvp of this game which is the good thing and different thing ESO has compared to other games, asking this kind of stuff is like putting more nails to ESO's PVP coffin.

I have adapted . It does not make it anymore enjoyable to me . I can animation cancel , 3 shot instagib rekface just like anyone else that's been here since launch . I got so bored doing it I rerolled as Majicblade for a real challenge . This is not a gitgud issue , it's a combat preference issue . I prefer combat that requires more skill .

RadioheadSh0t · December 2016

Astanphaeus wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

If streak hadn't been nerfed so badly this wouldn't be as much of a problem for me, but now it's a killer.

I used to be able to outrun zergs back in the day, now its pretty much impossible if they're insistent on chasing that one person down. That's what I miss the most, because Magicka Sorc's mobility has gotten a terrible nerf. You'll run out of magicka bolting away before they will gap closing you down, you basically have to find a good LOS to get out of gap closing range quickly and even then you'll probably be out of magicka completely.

Welcome to the life of a DK or templar. I'm trying to find my sympathy for you, but I seem to have misplaced it.

Name me any other class defining skill that has a cool down like Streak?

Maybe I wouldn't have to bolt away if I had a ridiculously powerful burst heal or the only skill that reflects all projectiles.

Rohaus · December 2016

@Rohamad_Ali

There is this game coming out that is right up your alley then... it's called For Honor.

I played during a recent beta. It was awesome... my only gripe was the style of locking you in on a target... I really prefer the style of free motion with a camera... and aiming...

But I think I could get used to this style found in For Honor. Regardless, the whole method of fighting is amazing... it is a reactionary game for certain.

Pirhana7_ESO · December 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

What is the point of equipping skills like Retreating Maneuver for escaping battles in Cyrodiil when enemy players can just spam gap closers to keep up with you?

I pulled a Nightblade out of stealth and began battling him. A group of 10+ enemies noticed that I was fighting their ally so I activated Retreating Maneuver and started sprinting away before the group could get into range of attacking me (I'm a stamina templar, so Retreating Maneuver is pretty much my only way to escape). The person I'm battling saw my attempt at a retreat:

- Ambush (procs Viper's Sting)
- Ambush
- Ambush
- Ambush
- Ambush (procs Viper's Sting and Red Mountain)

Dead. Sure, it's tempting to say that in this scenario "the procs that are the problem, blah blah." But isn't it messed up that I have to forfeit use of every skill on my bar to retreat, while this enemy can spam a gap closer and prevent that? Why not institute a 3 second cooldown for gap closers?

I think the problem was more of the procs killing you and the overall current problem of the game. Ambush itself should never be spammed as its actually weak damage and a high stamina cost. a NB is alot more effective using Suprise Attack or Weapon attacks after closing the gap with Ambush.

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

Rohaus wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali

There is this game coming out that is right up your alley then... it's called For Honor.

I played during a recent beta. It was awesome... my only gripe was the style of locking you in on a target... I really prefer the style of free motion with a camera... and aiming...

But I think I could get used to this style found in For Honor. Regardless, the whole method of fighting is amazing... it is a reactionary game for certain.

I will need to take a look then . Thank you for the information .

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

@Rohaus

OMG that PvP looks amazing ! Thanks again !

Sugaroverdose · December 2016

Rohaus wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali

There is this game coming out that is right up your alley then... it's called For Honor.

I played during a recent beta. It was awesome... my only gripe was the style of locking you in on a target... I really prefer the style of free motion with a camera... and aiming...

But I think I could get used to this style found in For Honor. Regardless, the whole method of fighting is amazing... it is a reactionary game for certain.

Without target locking it wouldn't work, it's like fighting game but more relies on reaction than knowing combos, reminds early Assasin's Creed battle system.

Chori · December 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Yes , even as a nightblade I find spambushing incredibly annoying and cheesy . Same with ping pong ball crit Rush goobers .

Yet ambush has been nerfed and cost increased a couple times already, and its clunky af. Have you ever tried lotus fan or ambush into someone who was initially on your range but after you cast they were not anymore? Your character stands on the same place rising your arms to do the ambush like wuuuuut and nothing happens, meanwhile if you do this on a regular 2h skill like crit rush and you spam it your chances are you will end up macroslicing someone.

Crit rush for a few patches has been more reliable and also stronger dmg wise if the person knows how to use it. The only good thing about ambush right now, is the empower. It doesnt even follow or teleport to for example top of rocks and stuff like crit rush does. They ruined the skill and if it wasnt for the silly empower, it would be named useless.

If it had a timer they could increase it back , making it useful again but without the spam .

Not about increasing damage, eventho it its like a wet noodle they balanced the skill around the empower and follow-up, they made the skill clunky as hell after their gap closing into keeps fix. If we put cooldowns to gap closers might as well put a cooldown to every other repetitive skill as well, and at that point we might as well go play a cooldown based asian mmo. People needs to stop complaining about that stuff and l2p/adapt, changing the fast phased pvp of this game which is the good thing and different thing ESO has compared to other games, asking this kind of stuff is like putting more nails to ESO's PVP coffin.

I have adapted . It does not make it anymore enjoyable to me . I can animation cancel , 3 shot instagib rekface just like anyone else that's been here since launch . I got so bored doing it I rerolled as Majicblade for a real challenge . This is not a gitgud issue , it's a combat preference issue . I prefer combat that requires more skill .

Then this is not the right mmo for you bud specially PvP wise, and when something isn't enjoyable to you anymore then thats when you need to stop doing it. If you are looking for skilled play into this game there are other options out there as well and not just being a nightblade

. Not even taking into consideration the shape of the balance right now and all the things that implies in terms of player personal experience which is what this thread should be about, not just some -generally speaking- "hey I dont like being crit rushed/ambushed when I'm trying to run away because I knew I messed up, I had poor decision making and I will effing die" situation.

Again, cooldowns into skills aside of ultimates/streak/roll dodge isnt what this game is about.

Joy_Division · December 2016

Satiar wrote: »

After a stint in FF14 gap closers in this game feel insane to me. I had 2 gap closers, one on a 2 min cool down one on a 1 minute cool down. Forced me to be so much less lazy with speed boosts and positioning.

How did you ever kill anyone without ambush spam

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Yes , even as a nightblade I find spambushing incredibly annoying and cheesy . Same with ping pong ball crit Rush goobers .

Yet ambush has been nerfed and cost increased a couple times already, and its clunky af. Have you ever tried lotus fan or ambush into someone who was initially on your range but after you cast they were not anymore? Your character stands on the same place rising your arms to do the ambush like wuuuuut and nothing happens, meanwhile if you do this on a regular 2h skill like crit rush and you spam it your chances are you will end up macroslicing someone.

Crit rush for a few patches has been more reliable and also stronger dmg wise if the person knows how to use it. The only good thing about ambush right now, is the empower. It doesnt even follow or teleport to for example top of rocks and stuff like crit rush does. They ruined the skill and if it wasnt for the silly empower, it would be named useless.

If it had a timer they could increase it back , making it useful again but without the spam .

Not about increasing damage, eventho it its like a wet noodle they balanced the skill around the empower and follow-up, they made the skill clunky as hell after their gap closing into keeps fix. If we put cooldowns to gap closers might as well put a cooldown to every other repetitive skill as well, and at that point we might as well go play a cooldown based asian mmo. People needs to stop complaining about that stuff and l2p/adapt, changing the fast phased pvp of this game which is the good thing and different thing ESO has compared to other games, asking this kind of stuff is like putting more nails to ESO's PVP coffin.

I have adapted . It does not make it anymore enjoyable to me . I can animation cancel , 3 shot instagib rekface just like anyone else that's been here since launch . I got so bored doing it I rerolled as Majicblade for a real challenge . This is not a gitgud issue , it's a combat preference issue . I prefer combat that requires more skill .

Then this is not the right mmo for you bud specially PvP wise, and when something isn't enjoyable to you anymore then thats when you need to stop doing it. If you are looking for skilled play into this game there are other options out there as well and not just being a nightblade . Not even taking into consideration the shape of the balance right now and all the things that implies in terms of player personal experience which is what this thread should be about, not just some -generally speaking- "hey I dont like being crit rushed/ambushed when I'm trying to run away because I knew I messed up, I had poor decision making and I will effing die" situation.

Again, cooldowns into skills aside of ultimates/streak/roll dodge isnt what this game is about.

You're going out on a limb now . If PvP was the only thing that interested me then yes , I would find a new MMO certainly . I do play other PvP games , that still will never deter me from suggesting things here .

If PvP here is so great , where did everyone go ?

Chori · December 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Yes , even as a nightblade I find spambushing incredibly annoying and cheesy . Same with ping pong ball crit Rush goobers .

Yet ambush has been nerfed and cost increased a couple times already, and its clunky af. Have you ever tried lotus fan or ambush into someone who was initially on your range but after you cast they were not anymore? Your character stands on the same place rising your arms to do the ambush like wuuuuut and nothing happens, meanwhile if you do this on a regular 2h skill like crit rush and you spam it your chances are you will end up macroslicing someone.

Crit rush for a few patches has been more reliable and also stronger dmg wise if the person knows how to use it. The only good thing about ambush right now, is the empower. It doesnt even follow or teleport to for example top of rocks and stuff like crit rush does. They ruined the skill and if it wasnt for the silly empower, it would be named useless.

If it had a timer they could increase it back , making it useful again but without the spam .

Not about increasing damage, eventho it its like a wet noodle they balanced the skill around the empower and follow-up, they made the skill clunky as hell after their gap closing into keeps fix. If we put cooldowns to gap closers might as well put a cooldown to every other repetitive skill as well, and at that point we might as well go play a cooldown based asian mmo. People needs to stop complaining about that stuff and l2p/adapt, changing the fast phased pvp of this game which is the good thing and different thing ESO has compared to other games, asking this kind of stuff is like putting more nails to ESO's PVP coffin.

I have adapted . It does not make it anymore enjoyable to me . I can animation cancel , 3 shot instagib rekface just like anyone else that's been here since launch . I got so bored doing it I rerolled as Majicblade for a real challenge . This is not a gitgud issue , it's a combat preference issue . I prefer combat that requires more skill .

Then this is not the right mmo for you bud specially PvP wise, and when something isn't enjoyable to you anymore then thats when you need to stop doing it. If you are looking for skilled play into this game there are other options out there as well and not just being a nightblade . Not even taking into consideration the shape of the balance right now and all the things that implies in terms of player personal experience which is what this thread should be about, not just some -generally speaking- "hey I dont like being crit rushed/ambushed when I'm trying to run away because I knew I messed up, I had poor decision making and I will effing die" situation.

Again, cooldowns into skills aside of ultimates/streak/roll dodge isnt what this game is about.

You're going out on a limb now . If PvP was the only thing that interested me then yes , I would find a new MMO certainly . I do play other PvP games , that still will never deter me from suggesting things here .

If PvP here is so great , where did everyone go ?

I dont know what you are smoking this is a PVP thread, on a PVP section. I mentioned nobody takes into consideration the poor shape of the current balance right now -whether its class/resource management/sets-, and thats the reason people are leaving PVP adding ofc on top the performance issues the game has, and not because gap closers don't have a cooldown lol.

Nobody stops you or anybody else from suggesting things, but when someone calls out the flaws or importance or such thing you need to stop and start analyzing if it would be worse or better for the game overall, and not just base yourself on how much of a challenge you want for your own in the game because you do/dont feel convenient what is presented to you. Because thats when you start losing the bigger point of view, and that's when you start being biased to your own convenience.

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Yes , even as a nightblade I find spambushing incredibly annoying and cheesy . Same with ping pong ball crit Rush goobers .

Yet ambush has been nerfed and cost increased a couple times already, and its clunky af. Have you ever tried lotus fan or ambush into someone who was initially on your range but after you cast they were not anymore? Your character stands on the same place rising your arms to do the ambush like wuuuuut and nothing happens, meanwhile if you do this on a regular 2h skill like crit rush and you spam it your chances are you will end up macroslicing someone.

Crit rush for a few patches has been more reliable and also stronger dmg wise if the person knows how to use it. The only good thing about ambush right now, is the empower. It doesnt even follow or teleport to for example top of rocks and stuff like crit rush does. They ruined the skill and if it wasnt for the silly empower, it would be named useless.

If it had a timer they could increase it back , making it useful again but without the spam .

Not about increasing damage, eventho it its like a wet noodle they balanced the skill around the empower and follow-up, they made the skill clunky as hell after their gap closing into keeps fix. If we put cooldowns to gap closers might as well put a cooldown to every other repetitive skill as well, and at that point we might as well go play a cooldown based asian mmo. People needs to stop complaining about that stuff and l2p/adapt, changing the fast phased pvp of this game which is the good thing and different thing ESO has compared to other games, asking this kind of stuff is like putting more nails to ESO's PVP coffin.

I have adapted . It does not make it anymore enjoyable to me . I can animation cancel , 3 shot instagib rekface just like anyone else that's been here since launch . I got so bored doing it I rerolled as Majicblade for a real challenge . This is not a gitgud issue , it's a combat preference issue . I prefer combat that requires more skill .

Then this is not the right mmo for you bud specially PvP wise, and when something isn't enjoyable to you anymore then thats when you need to stop doing it. If you are looking for skilled play into this game there are other options out there as well and not just being a nightblade . Not even taking into consideration the shape of the balance right now and all the things that implies in terms of player personal experience which is what this thread should be about, not just some -generally speaking- "hey I dont like being crit rushed/ambushed when I'm trying to run away because I knew I messed up, I had poor decision making and I will effing die" situation.

Again, cooldowns into skills aside of ultimates/streak/roll dodge isnt what this game is about.

You're going out on a limb now . If PvP was the only thing that interested me then yes , I would find a new MMO certainly . I do play other PvP games , that still will never deter me from suggesting things here .

If PvP here is so great , where did everyone go ?

I dont know what you are smoking this is a PVP thread, on a PVP section. I mentioned nobody takes into consideration the poor shape of the current balance right now -whether its class/resource management/sets-, and thats the reason people are leaving PVP adding ofc on top the performance issues the game has, and not because gap closers don't have a cooldown lol.

Nobody stops you or anybody else from suggesting things, but when someone calls out the flaws or importance or such thing you need to stop and start analyzing if it would be worse or better for the game overall, and not just base yourself on how much of a challenge you want for your own in the game because you do/dont feel convenient what is presented to you. Because thats when you start losing the bigger point of view, and that's when you start being biased to your own convenience.

Ok so you you are saying Spambushing is for the greater good of PvP health . You like spamming gap closers . Being able to spambush makes the game better .

Well spambush away ! Crack that 1 Key Man !

Chori · December 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Yes , even as a nightblade I find spambushing incredibly annoying and cheesy . Same with ping pong ball crit Rush goobers .

Yet ambush has been nerfed and cost increased a couple times already, and its clunky af. Have you ever tried lotus fan or ambush into someone who was initially on your range but after you cast they were not anymore? Your character stands on the same place rising your arms to do the ambush like wuuuuut and nothing happens, meanwhile if you do this on a regular 2h skill like crit rush and you spam it your chances are you will end up macroslicing someone.

Crit rush for a few patches has been more reliable and also stronger dmg wise if the person knows how to use it. The only good thing about ambush right now, is the empower. It doesnt even follow or teleport to for example top of rocks and stuff like crit rush does. They ruined the skill and if it wasnt for the silly empower, it would be named useless.

If it had a timer they could increase it back , making it useful again but without the spam .

Not about increasing damage, eventho it its like a wet noodle they balanced the skill around the empower and follow-up, they made the skill clunky as hell after their gap closing into keeps fix. If we put cooldowns to gap closers might as well put a cooldown to every other repetitive skill as well, and at that point we might as well go play a cooldown based asian mmo. People needs to stop complaining about that stuff and l2p/adapt, changing the fast phased pvp of this game which is the good thing and different thing ESO has compared to other games, asking this kind of stuff is like putting more nails to ESO's PVP coffin.

I have adapted . It does not make it anymore enjoyable to me . I can animation cancel , 3 shot instagib rekface just like anyone else that's been here since launch . I got so bored doing it I rerolled as Majicblade for a real challenge . This is not a gitgud issue , it's a combat preference issue . I prefer combat that requires more skill .

Then this is not the right mmo for you bud specially PvP wise, and when something isn't enjoyable to you anymore then thats when you need to stop doing it. If you are looking for skilled play into this game there are other options out there as well and not just being a nightblade . Not even taking into consideration the shape of the balance right now and all the things that implies in terms of player personal experience which is what this thread should be about, not just some -generally speaking- "hey I dont like being crit rushed/ambushed when I'm trying to run away because I knew I messed up, I had poor decision making and I will effing die" situation.

Again, cooldowns into skills aside of ultimates/streak/roll dodge isnt what this game is about.

You're going out on a limb now . If PvP was the only thing that interested me then yes , I would find a new MMO certainly . I do play other PvP games , that still will never deter me from suggesting things here .

If PvP here is so great , where did everyone go ?

I dont know what you are smoking this is a PVP thread, on a PVP section. I mentioned nobody takes into consideration the poor shape of the current balance right now -whether its class/resource management/sets-, and thats the reason people are leaving PVP adding ofc on top the performance issues the game has, and not because gap closers don't have a cooldown lol.

Nobody stops you or anybody else from suggesting things, but when someone calls out the flaws or importance or such thing you need to stop and start analyzing if it would be worse or better for the game overall, and not just base yourself on how much of a challenge you want for your own in the game because you do/dont feel convenient what is presented to you. Because thats when you start losing the bigger point of view, and that's when you start being biased to your own convenience.

Ok so you you are saying Spambushing is for the greater good of PvP health . You like spamming gap closers . Being able to spambush makes the game better .

Well spambush away ! Crack that 1 Key Man !

Thanks for avoiding all the call outs, but at the end of the day I know how I play.
and "spambushing" isnt exactly how you always die to me but I will let you dwell on it, while I enjoy my "spambushing" in cyrodiil.

timidobserver · December 2016

I'd rather have my gap closer(focused charge) work properly before it gets a nerf.

Gothren · December 2016

no