Alliance Points, Get Rid of Em

AnviOfVai · December 2016

KrishakPanettier wrote: »

AP is the only reason for Cyrodiil. Get rid of AP, get rid of PVP.

ArchMikem · December 2016

Riejael wrote: »

Exile2112 wrote: »

A corporal and a veteran? At this point so many people could care less about playing objectives. Why don't you put in 2 years worth of pvp and see if you still think destroying walls is fun.

I did 4 years in Planetside 2 with a PVP system that Cyrodil probably took from (3 factions, continent sized map, bases, ect). And never did I once sit around 'cert farming' (their version of AP). Always played the objective.

Funny thing about PS2 is they did put more emphasis on support and objective based play rather than kills. You get far more credit for heals and rezes than you do kills in some cases. The trick however was to get the most points was to capture connected territories, backcapping or destroying assets deep behind enemy lines didn't do anything.

I've got over 1,000 hours in Planetside 2 as well, it's my favorite MMO shooter and you're exactly right. The disparity in how people play these two games is astonishing even though the mechanics and goals are the same. But the reason why isn't hard to understand at all. ESO allows you to become god like forces of nature with one hit proc sets, whereas in PS2 EVERYONE is more or less on equal standing in terms of combat strength. If someone in PS2 comes at you with a fighter, you bring an AA tank, if they bring a tank, you grab some C4 or rockets, it literally takes seconds to respec your kit in order to deal with the threat. In ESO, if someone comes at you with a build your build can't handle, you're forced to either deal with it and die, or leave Cyrodiil to go spend hours upon hours upon hours searching, farming, and crafting a new build to counter it.

Wollust wrote: »

Mhh salty zergling tears is what keeps me more entertained than the ap

Then what's that Zerg Squad doing in your Sig?

roigseguib16_ESO · December 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Mhh salty zergling tears is what keeps me more entertained than the ap

Then what's that Zerg Squad doing in your Sig?

He gotcha Susie boy

AzuraKin · December 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

I'm serious guys I'm trying SO HARD to enjoy PvP, my Templar's a Corporal, Nightblade a Veteran I'm no errant PvE player by now, but it's not a War in Cyrodiil. It's just another big 'ol farm for organized groups and guilds to take advantage of. And what makes it worse is the cross faction scheming taking place during it. The Pact is advancing on a Dominion Alessia? Nope, there's a group of Destro Ult Blues blocking the passage, farming us. And even though it's in peak hours and a Pact Zerg is easily around, no one cares to deal with the Blues, and even other Pact and Dominion players walked over my dead ganked body to mingle with the farmers, deciding not to at least use a soul gem on me or even, oh I dunno, fight the supposed War going on?

At least if AP weren't around, it would be one less major reason for people to farm Cyrodiil and be forced to either leave or actually play the intended mechanic.

Or better yet, just remove AP gain from defeating enemy players. Make it so you only gain it from capturing Keeps and Resources, so at least that way people can keep getting their precious points while also being forced to play out the Campaign instead of camping Alessia Bridge or Bleakers. This is the only Multiplayer game where I've seen such rampant examples of players openly helping and cooperating with the enemy faction(s).

that cause 20 blues will stop your 50-100 reds.

AzuraKin · December 2016

Riejael wrote: »

Exile2112 wrote: »

A corporal and a veteran? At this point so many people could care less about playing objectives. Why don't you put in 2 years worth of pvp and see if you still think destroying walls is fun.

I did 4 years in Planetside 2 with a PVP system that Cyrodil probably took from (3 factions, continent sized map, bases, ect). And never did I once sit around 'cert farming' (their version of AP). Always played the objective.

Funny thing about PS2 is they did put more emphasis on support and objective based play rather than kills. You get far more credit for heals and rezes than you do kills in some cases. The trick however was to get the most points was to capture connected territories, backcapping or destroying assets deep behind enemy lines didn't do anything.

lol i played ps2 as well and they are completely different playstyles. eso: map is divided into 3 home territory zones that are gated in some form limiting access to other alliance home territory. ps2 you could hop into any aircraft and fly anywhere you wanted. both games have camping. i have seen some very long ass battles where one team is bunked down in spawn room. lastly i think you will find ps2 isnt the origin of 3 way combat.

Fallen_Ray · December 2016

I don't think removing AP would solve much. The problem isn't even the way PVP was made to begin with. The real problem is ourselves, us players always find ways to bítch-play our way for our own gains and profit ruining what is supposed to be a great game experience.

I'd suggest to place diminishing returns on AP when killing players (not just the same players, I mean players overall). And decrease the AP gained when killing a player.

Then I would increase the AP gained when capturing resources, keeps, towns, etc. That would force farmers to stop killing players for AP and make em play the game as intended or make leave.

I for one do find absolutely stupid to see groups killing mobs of players without capturing resources and not "playing the war".

AzuraKin · December 2016

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

I don't think removing AP would solve much. The problem isn't even the way PVP was made to begin with. The real problem is ourselves, us players always find ways to bítch-play our way for our own gains and profit ruining what is supposed to be a great game experience.

I'd suggest to place diminishing returns on AP when killing players (not just the same players, I mean players overall). And decrease the AP gained when killing a player.

Then I would increase the AP gained when capturing resources, keeps and towns. That would force farmers to stop killing players for AP and make em play the game as intended or make leave.

I for one do find absolutely stupid to see groups killing mobs of players without capturing resources and not "playing the war".

what you see in pvp right now in terms of strategy, is the basis of what pvp in thsi game is about. this game is designed to be mass armies fighting it out.

Fallen_Ray · December 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

I don't think removing AP would solve much. The problem isn't even the way PVP was made to begin with. The real problem is ourselves, us players always find ways to bítch-play our way for our own gains and profit ruining what is supposed to be a great game experience.

I'd suggest to place diminishing returns on AP when killing players (not just the same players, I mean players overall). And decrease the AP gained when killing a player.

Then I would increase the AP gained when capturing resources, keeps and towns. That would force farmers to stop killing players for AP and make em play the game as intended or make leave.

I for one do find absolutely stupid to see groups killing mobs of players without capturing resources and not "playing the war".

what you see in pvp right now in terms of strategy, is the basis of what pvp in this game is about. this game is designed to be mass armies fighting it out.

If that's what pvp is all about then count me out. Killing players, don't get me wrong I do have a blast. But after 40 mins of doing the same thing over and over it gets dull, old and boring.

The way I see it now:

An DC keep (blue road keep for example) is under attack from EP,

There's a huge mob of you alliances let's say DC and EP fighting it out, endlessly doing the same (EP is using fort Dragonclaw as spawn and DC is using Bruma). Neither team is capturing the opposing because they just wanna fight endlessly.

The players fighting over blue road keep ( the real purpose of Cyrodiil) aren't getting any back up from players that could actually be helping them all because they are all too busy playing the washing machine loop.

The results? IF EP had a huge army , DC lost blue road keep, and It could've been the other way around if their mates would have actually backed them instead of doing mindless army fighting. And vice versa.

And I didn't even mention AD some could be around in stealth taking advantage of the situation ganking players for their own gains on both battles of this example.

Franieck · December 2016

Without PVP we could finally have all the awesome PVP-only dyes come to PVE *-*

Jailbirdy · December 2016

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

I don't think removing AP would solve much. The problem isn't even the way PVP was made to begin with. The real problem is ourselves, us players always find ways to bítch-play our way for our own gains and profit ruining what is supposed to be a great game experience.

I'd suggest to place diminishing returns on AP when killing players (not just the same players, I mean players overall). And decrease the AP gained when killing a player.

Then I would increase the AP gained when capturing resources, keeps, towns, etc. That would force farmers to stop killing players for AP and make em play the game as intended or make leave.

I for one do find absolutely stupid to see groups killing mobs of players without capturing resources and not "playing the war".

agree!

Humphie · December 2016

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

I don't think removing AP would solve much. The problem isn't even the way PVP was made to begin with. The real problem is ourselves, us players always find ways to bítch-play our way for our own gains and profit ruining what is supposed to be a great game experience.

I'd suggest to place diminishing returns on AP when killing players (not just the same players, I mean players overall). And decrease the AP gained when killing a player.

Then I would increase the AP gained when capturing resources, keeps and towns. That would force farmers to stop killing players for AP and make em play the game as intended or make leave.

I for one do find absolutely stupid to see groups killing mobs of players without capturing resources and not "playing the war".

what you see in pvp right now in terms of strategy, is the basis of what pvp in this game is about. this game is designed to be mass armies fighting it out.

If that's what pvp is all about then count me out. Killing players, don't get me wrong I do have a blast. But after 40 mins of doing the same thing over and over it gets dull, old and boring.

The way I see it now:

An DC keep (blue road keep for example) is under attack from EP,

There's a huge mob of you alliances let's say DC and EP fighting it out, endlessly doing the same ( EP is using fort Dragonclaw as spawn and DC is using Bruma. Neither team is capturing the opposing because they just wanna fight endlessly.

The players fighting over blue road keep ( the real purpose of Cyrodiil) aren't getting any back up from players that could actually be helping them all because they are all too busy playing the washing machine loop.

The results? IF EP had a huge army , DC lost blue road keep, and It could've been the other way around if their mates would have actually backed them instead of doing mindless army fighting. And vice versa.

And I didn't even mention AD some could be around in stealth taking advantage of the situation ganking players for their own gains on both battles of this example.

Oh hun...

I pvp for about a year now and I do not want to siege. I do not want to take keeps all the time. I want to have good figths. You'll get there in time.

pattyLtd · December 2016

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

I don't think removing AP would solve much. The problem isn't even the way PVP was made to begin with. The real problem is ourselves, us players always find ways to bítch-play our way for our own gains and profit ruining what is supposed to be a great game experience.

I'd suggest to place diminishing returns on AP when killing players (not just the same players, I mean players overall). And decrease the AP gained when killing a player.

Then I would increase the AP gained when capturing resources, keeps and towns. That would force farmers to stop killing players for AP and make em play the game as intended or make leave.

I for one do find absolutely stupid to see groups killing mobs of players without capturing resources and not "playing the war".

what you see in pvp right now in terms of strategy, is the basis of what pvp in this game is about. this game is designed to be mass armies fighting it out.

If that's what pvp is all about then count me out. Killing players, don't get me wrong I do have a blast. But after 40 mins of doing the same thing over and over it gets dull, old and boring.

The way I see it now:

An DC keep (blue road keep for example) is under attack from EP,

There's a huge mob of you alliances let's say DC and EP fighting it out, endlessly doing the same (EP is using fort Dragonclaw as spawn and DC is using Bruma). Neither team is capturing the opposing because they just wanna fight endlessly.

The players fighting over blue road keep ( the real purpose of Cyrodiil) aren't getting any back up from players that could actually be helping them all because they are all too busy playing the washing machine loop.

The results? IF EP had a huge army , DC lost blue road keep, and It could've been the other way around if their mates would have actually backed them instead of doing mindless army fighting. And vice versa.

And I didn't even mention AD some could be around in stealth taking advantage of the situation ganking players for their own gains on both battles of this example.

And this is exactly why i think adding the flags to IC was bad.
Chances are these worthless allies for your "war" would all be endlessly killing eachother in IC in the past.

I admit i don't care about capturing keeps. Travelling from keep to keep gets dull after 40mins too.

Maphusail · December 2016

First of all AP is gained to progress in your Alliance War skill line and ranks. And even if AP is also used as a PVP currency, progressing in PVP ranks is exactly why it's farmed. You can of course use AP to buy stuff but the AP market isn't so huge as gold market.
And when you're complaining about 2 faction's cooperation on the bridge do you also care that they cooperate to dethrone the 3rd faction holding Emperorship? That's what should be discussed.

Joy_Division · December 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Are you unaware of the "bridge farm?"

I have been and it shouldn't exist.

Why not? I play to have fun in this game and dumping oil on peoples heads as they come to the bridge is fun. Why do you have a problem with doing something else besides attacking keeps?

And, btw, I rez everybody I see, even level 12 recruits. But thank you for assuming I collaborate with the enemy and wouldnt waste a soul gem on you.

MakoFore · December 2016

ap is fine - removing it won't help. they just need to amend how ap is earned. by being active and improving territory and not just cycling areas. its a cynical way to play and its killing pvp. there are so many interesting things they can do to introduce and re-invigorate pvp.

like escort missions, protect vip missions, mini battleground areas-like for example a tavern- where say only 10 people from each faction can enter- last man standing wins.,

the possibilities are endless- and yet all we get is the same crap. all they need to do is watch a western - u have about 100 plots and quest ideas right there for pvp.

Lieblingsjunge · December 2016

You complain about organised guilds? Make one. Join one. Become one of the "Annoying AP farmers".

No. Don't remove AP. Make it more useful. LEt there be new items(that's not Akaviri Motifs) obtainable through AP only. Make AP actually worth getting(for other than getting Vigour from AR). Make AP actually worth something! 'Cus atm, it's just... Worthless.

SneaK · December 2016

There is definitely a problem with the current scoring/ranking system in Cyrodiil. However, getting rid of AP is very far from a real solution. ZOS needs to change the way AP is gained, in a sense. AP bonuses need to be implemented into objectives and rewards need to be worthwhile for people to care about winning or losing. Grinding kills and bottling up choke points should still be effective, but taking objectives and playing the map should be equally rewarding.