ZOS you're obligated to let us know the result of the investigation

raidentenshu_ESO · December 2016

About 5 days ago I've spotted a potential botter that was botting near the Dolmen. The obvious signs were there... I reported the bot in the game, and was then given a ticket# and an automatic response:

Response

The dwellers of Tamriel thank you for taking time from your adventures to report this offense. Maintaining the integrity of the land is a priority. We will investigate this matter and take appropriate action.

To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigation.

Please also be aware that you can add players whose behavior you find objectionable to the ignore list. To do this, open your contacts list (default: O) and click on the "No Entry" icon in the upper right corner. Now you have the option to add players. You can also do this by right-clicking on a player's name and choosing "Ignore". Once this is done, messages from the player in question will no longer be able to reach you.

If you are playing on a console, please contact Sony / Microsoft directly for more information on how to ignore or report a player who you feel is in violation of Sony or Microsoft’s Terms of Service.

Thank you for your continued interest and support!

Warm Regards,
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

So ZOS

Why won't you inform me of the results of your investigation? Perhaps my observation was wrong, and that I wand up reporting an innocent player? How can I learn from my potential mistakes if you won't let me through your guidance from the outcome of your investigation? You mention in the email that it's to protect the privacy of the individual... well the very moment that I filed up a report I became apart of it, and therefor I think I have the right to know the results from the outcome of your investigation.

WeylandLabs · December 2016

WRONG .... its like Secret Witness lol If they caught them you aint getting no reward in this case it would be information. Plus they are a business not a place of origin with laws and governments for balance. Kinda like a bank that constantly takes your money then charges you to use it.

Drazkyth · December 2016

"I think I have the right"

No, no you don't
I agree it can be annoying when you report an obvious abuser of ToS agreements and then never hear what was actually done about the breach but to believe you have some sort of right to know the result of a private companies investigation is just naive I'm afraid.

Vipstaakki · December 2016

Nope. ZOS is not obligated to let you know of the result. Read the terms of service again that you agreed upon.

Danikat · December 2016

Firstly this is standard procedure across not just in games but pretty much everything. Moderators on the vast majority of forums will never tell you what happened to someone you reported. Some of it you can see for yourself (posts being edited or removed) but they won't tell you if the person also received a warning and what it said.

It's the same if you complain about someone's bad behaviour in a real life situation like a pub or a train - you may be able to see part of the consequences but they're not going to come over and tell you exactly what they said to the person, how much they were fined etc. because even though you reported it what happens next is none of your business. Even if you report someone to the police they will only contact you to follow up if they need more information or if it directly affects you (i.e. if you reported them for theft you'll be told whether you're getting your stolen items back).

Secondly in this specific case it's actually in their interest not to follow up with you. If they tell players which bots they've banned and what got them caught people could use that information to design better bots. I am NOT suggesting that's why you personally want to know. But some people would use it that way. Both by reporting bots themselves and looking for posts where people discuss how both they were reported were caught.

Also if someone was 100% sure they'd caught a bot and then got told ZOS decided there was no evidence/insufficient evidence some individuals would take it on themselves to make sure the person they're sure they know is a bot is punished in other ways by verbally abusing them directly or warning everyone around not to have anything to do with them because they're a bot. Which already happens occasionally, but at least now some people can just assume every 'bot' they report is banned and resist the temptation to do more themselves.

If you just want to make sure you're reporting bots whenever you can the best thing you can do is report any time you're in doubt and let ZOS work it out. If they determine the person hasn't done anything wrong they won't get in trouble, so you don't have to worry about that, and it gives them a lot more reports to compare suspicious but innocent player behaviour and genuine botting, which is likely to be valuable for their ID methods.

kevlarto_ESO · December 2016

As much as I wish they had a dev only section in the forums that told us, how many people got banned for cheating how many suspended for exploiting, boting, etc etc, at least then we know zos is doing something, like it is now they leave us with the perception they are doing nothing, I have not seen a thread of someone complaining my friend got banned and he was not doing anything wrong for a long time now.

You don't have to list names, just violations and how many, at least then we could have the perception zos is doing something to rid the game of cheaters and exploiters, sure would make me feel better and I might even buy something from the crown store beyond my sub.

They are a private company they are not obligated to tell us anything, sad really zos rarely if ever does anything to generate good will toward the players.

Doctordarkspawn · December 2016

This is pretty much one of the few times I'm not in favor of transparency.

Would it be nice to know what happened? Yeah but you shouldn't. The more people know the results and Usernames and such the bigger chance that someone is gonna dox them or something similar. Just no.

old_mufasa · December 2016

The whole taboo of name and shaming makes no sense... I can understand prior to being banned or punished not naming and shaming.. but I think they should post a list every month of accounts that have been caught hacking and cheating. This would do a lot in showing something is being done.. and if you were a victim of a cheater in game.. gives a sense of justice being done.

Elsonso · December 2016

Danikat wrote: »

If you just want to make sure you're reporting bots whenever you can the best thing you can do is report any time you're in doubt and let ZOS work it out. If they determine the person hasn't done anything wrong they won't get in trouble, so you don't have to worry about that, and it gives them a lot more reports to compare suspicious but innocent player behaviour and genuine botting, which is likely to be valuable for their ID methods.

I want to add that reporting someone for being a bot, and getting it wrong, is not going to get the person doing the report in trouble. Provided...

1. They are not being a vigilante about it.
2. They are not lying or acting falsely in the report.

Report and move on. One bot, one report. Not a report every hour, or every day. No reminder reports. Don't harass the bots. Don't harass ZOS. Don't name and shame. Go about your business.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2016

Smh no they aren't obligated to inform you as you're not involved in the investigation.

You only reported the incident that started the investigation

Danikat · December 2016

In another game I played if you were online when you were banned an NPC would appear and 'kill' you with a very obvious animation.

Something like that could be a good compromise because it made it clear people were getting banned (especially because this animation wasn't used anywhere else so if you saw it you knew what had happened) but the persons name plate disappeared and they became unselectable as soon as it started so there was no 'naming and shaming' going on. (Unless you somehow knew in advance it was going to happen, but as far as I know that only happened once when someone deliberately sacrificed a spare account in order to film the banning.)

Nestor · December 2016

As a moderator of another popular Forum, I can tell you the last thing you ever want to do is get into a public discussion of an action taken, or not, against another member.

Does not start out well, will not go well, and will not end well. You will have advocates or defenders of the accused, no matter what they did, you will have friends of the accused coming down on both sides of the issue, you will have prosecution and persecution of the accused, you will have others brought into the mix with "what about them and what they did?". Then you will have people that see the line you drew in the sand about what is allowed and not and they will dance all over that line, jumping to either side as they try to push the limits.

With Bots in the game, about the only thing you can do is go see if they are still there. If they are not, something was done, if they are, something was not done. What was done or not, and why, well, just remember, the two things you never want to see are sausages being made and fragile packages being shipped. Both processes will just scare you and give you nightmares and make you seriously question why you tried. You can add moderating of a gamer to that mix.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2016

Danikat wrote: »

In another game I played if you were online when you were banned an NPC would appear and 'kill' you with a very obvious animation.

Something like that could be a good compromise because it made it clear people were getting banned (especially because this animation wasn't used anywhere else so if you saw it you knew what had happened) but the persons name plate disappeared and they became unselectable as soon as it started so there was no 'naming and shaming' going on. (Unless you somehow knew in advance it was going to happen, but as far as I know that only happened once when someone deliberately sacrificed a spare account in order to film the banning.)

This should also show if they were offline. They log in and each character instead of standing is laying dead with something saying banned.

Obviously they would be stuff at that login screen but it would add the awesomeness.

Waste of development but it would be cool

Garrick · December 2016

Also worth noting that if ZOS gave this sort of feedback then they might also be obligated to let people know who their accusers were, which can lead to further problems.

It is much simpler and safer to not tell anyone anything.

Haxnschwammer · December 2016

Also it is far easier to do nothing at all with reports than investigate and get back to you.

ilander · December 2016

I'm still hearing of the same people who have been repeatedly exploiting into keeps on both Truelame and Blackwater Blade, people who are well known for doing it. It seems that ZOS won't take any action on these people unless we supply a direct brain scan of what these people were thinking when they did the exploit and also a full 5 hour breakdown video of them carrying out the exploit from 17 different angles. I was under the impression that ZOS could find evidence from all manner of information on these people that they were repeatedly exploiting. It has now got to a point where these people know they can exploit into keeps with impunity, so many players have even stopped submitting any tickets because the amount of action taken against these people is exactly NOTHING! I have a sneaky suspicion that the team that investigates these things comprise of a monkey who deletes all of these tickets we submit by pressing a large D button and a person who occasionally feeds the monkey.

If ZOS had to supply details of their investigations, there would be a spate of investigation documents that amounted to a big massive blank space because they've either been ignored or deleted by the aforementioned monkey.

I agree that having a monthly/weekly post stating how many were banned and what they were banned for would be a great start as a deterrent against cheats and botters but again, this would cost ZOS money and i feel that this is the last thing ZOS want to do with their time from what we consistently see cited in the forums about some of these cheats.

An alternative would be to have the ability to report people via the crown store (obviously by paying 500 crowns to report) thus giving ZOS the $$ they crave whilst appeasing the general populace at the same time. :P

Balamoor · December 2016

Such special little snowflakes

I demand
Your'e Obliged

Zenimax is Obliged to do nothing they can shut their servers down and start making soap tomorrow and despite anyone's ACLU fantasies no one can do jack or Shirt about it.

You are in a position to demand nothing, all you can do is stop playing and or keep whining on these forums until the mods get their fill and ban your sorry ass.

Consider me the cold pimp slap of reality.

Riggsy · December 2016

Id much rather see the company's financial documents, determine where all the money goes.

TARAFRAKA · December 2016

the entitlement is strong in this one.

Prof_Bawbag · December 2016

If the general public at large wasn't so pitchforks and torches-esque, I'd begin to see the positives in naming and shaming, but because we are, ZoS are saving ourselves from ourselves. I don't see any upside to naming and shaming. I mean, would anyone even remember 99.999999999% of ex cheaters if we past them in-game? I know i wouldn't. I do well just remembering almost everyone who I have interacted with in the past.

Prof_Bawbag · December 2016

Riggsy wrote: »

Id much rather see the company's financial documents, determine where all the money goes.

Easy, become a shareholder and that way you will be privy to that information.

raidentenshu_ESO · December 2016

Balamoor wrote: »

Such special little snowflakes

I demand
Your'e Obliged

Zenimax is Obliged to do nothing they can shut their servers down and start making soap tomorrow and despite anyone's ACLU fantasies no one can do jack or Shirt about it.

You are in a position to demand nothing, all you can do is stop playing and or keep whining on these forums until the mods get their fill and ban your sorry ass.

Consider me the cold pimp slap of reality.

Holy poop on a stick settle your horse down, bruh! All that I was asking is for a conformation to clarify if my observation was right.

I know the server maintenance puts everyone in a foul mood so go take a relaxant, and go lay down for a while.

pattyLtd · December 2016

OMG OMG They are closing the servers and going in the soap business :'(

Balamoor · December 2016

pattyLtd wrote: »

OMG OMG They are closing the servers and going in the soap business :'(

Really who said that? Wait I did ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

:-P

SirCritical · December 2016

So many of you trolled him to hell, but I defend the OP: yes, you're right

raidentenshu_ESO · December 2016

Balamoor wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Holy poop on a stick settle your horse down, bruh! ( https://ryangustafson13.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/untitled.png ) All that I was asking is for a conformation to clarify if my observation was right.

I know the server maintenance puts everyone in a foul mood so go take a relaxant, and go lay down for a while.

Quite relaxed Frat person.

But you were telling the devs they were Obliged, that isn't semantics. Guess Mom never went over the how you say/ask for something being important huh?

Whats wrong with asking for the results of the report that I took time to file up? ZOS excuse not to release the results: " To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigation." is pretty lame.

I guess I'm no longer obligated to report hackers and cheaters in this game, is that right? Good to know so that my time wont be wasted reporting cheaters and botters in this game... I'll just grab my bucket of popcorn, and watch frustrated players complain on this forum about how theirs so many cheaters and botters

Danikat · December 2016

You were never obligated to report anyone.

It's only an obligation if there are consequences for not doing it. What do you imagine will happen to you if you don't report a botter?

Tandor · December 2016

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

As much as I wish they had a dev only section in the forums that told us, how many people got banned for cheating how many suspended for exploiting, boting, etc etc, at least then we know zos is doing something, like it is now they leave us with the perception they are doing nothing, I have not seen a thread of someone complaining my friend got banned and he was not doing anything wrong for a long time now.

You don't have to list names, just violations and how many, at least then we could have the perception zos is doing something to rid the game of cheaters and exploiters, sure would make me feel better and I might even buy something from the crown store beyond my sub.

They are a private company they are not obligated to tell us anything, sad really zos rarely if ever does anything to generate good will toward the players.

I'm afraid that if they did report how many people had got banned or suspended there would be no shortage of people here accusing them of making up the numbers, in some cases because the one they reported is still running around, and in others because there are plenty here only too happy to knock ZOS at every opportunity. Abuses are best reported then left for ZOS to deal with privately while the reporting player gets on with the game.

Reykice · December 2016

They do not reveal results because people would be up in arms to find out cheaters with video proof get banned for 3 days.

Most think they ban them forever... not the case as far as we know, most get a temporary ban.

They could say user x and y got banned, if he is permanently banned revealing the username has no impact.

I would like to see permanent bans for flying and teleporting via cheat engine or even duping and other stuff, EVERY other serious game does it, WoW even did it fast when i was playing, seen exploiters banned in hours.

Hard to take this game seriously when their response to cheating is "well yes but they are also customers so we can`t be too hard on them, money is everything guys!".

AzuraKin · December 2016

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

About 5 days ago I've spotted a potential botter that was botting near the Dolmen. The obvious signs were there... I reported the bot in the game, and was then given a ticket# and an automatic response:
Response

The dwellers of Tamriel thank you for taking time from your adventures to report this offense. Maintaining the integrity of the land is a priority. We will investigate this matter and take appropriate action.

To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigation.

Please also be aware that you can add players whose behavior you find objectionable to the ignore list. To do this, open your contacts list (default: O) and click on the "No Entry" icon in the upper right corner. Now you have the option to add players. You can also do this by right-clicking on a player's name and choosing "Ignore". Once this is done, messages from the player in question will no longer be able to reach you.

If you are playing on a console, please contact Sony / Microsoft directly for more information on how to ignore or report a player who you feel is in violation of Sony or Microsoft’s Terms of Service.

Thank you for your continued interest and support!

Warm Regards,
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

So ZOS Why won't you inform me of the results of your investigation? Perhaps my observation was wrong, and that I wand up reporting an innocent player? How can I learn from my potential mistakes if you won't let me through your guidance from the outcome of your investigation? You mention in the email that it's to protect the privacy of the individual... well the very moment that I filed up a report I became apart of it, and therefor I think I have the right to know the results from the outcome of your investigation.

hahahahaha, well could always do it like wizard101. false report someone = reporter gets banned.

Balamoor · December 2016

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Whats wrong with asking for the results of the report that I took time to file up? ZOS excuse not to release the results: " To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigation." is pretty lame.

I guess I'm no longer obligated to report hackers and cheaters in this game, is that right? Good to know so that my time wont be wasted reporting cheaters and botters in this game... I'll just grab my bucket of popcorn, and watch frustrated players complain on this forum about how theirs so many cheaters and botters

I'll use small words.

There is nothing wrong with asking.
Everything is wrong with stating that ZoS is Obligated.

And no you aren't obligated to do anything never were and no one here really cares about the efforts that you are going to great lengths to advertise. I report people for suspected botting and other infractions leave it up to ZoS to deal with it or not.

Siimple.