Need Advice for Power Surge Sorcerer

Dharmabum · December 2016

As a power surge sorcerer, I've gotten my spell crit to 76.2% at the expense of spell damage which is only 1119 (w/o power surge). Should I re-invest in spell damage to even things out? What about putting points into elfborn (as opposed to elemental expert)? This build is 100% PVE. Any and all feedback is appreciated!

Nestor · December 2016

I am at SD Unbuffed of 2400 to 2700 with Spell Crits of 60+% so, what is your gear and other particulars?

And, yes, at 76% Crits, you can afford to give some up for more overall Damage, or anything else really.

oTheTownDrunk · December 2016

I believe there is a point where extra crit% is not worth it. And I believe its around 50-60%. That being said keep your crit around 55% and increase that SD as much as possible.

Dharmabum · December 2016

I recently switched to the mother's sorrow set which pumped the spell crit at the expense of spell damage. My other set is crafted; I haven't been grinding for the BoP sets. If I replace mother's sorrow, I can probably exchange 13% crit for a few hundred SD. Based on the ratio, it seems like it would make sense.

Lukums1 · December 2016

Please follow the below...

Julianos - Aether - monster set valk skoria - trash flame staff or whatever.

EDIT: I understand some people don't run trials so instead of aether, will power or elegant 5 peice will work fine also.

Sit at 64% crit with 2400 spell damage.

This is optimum trust me. Your crit is too high at the expense of so much spell damage it's not even funny.
I'll go as far to assume you don't want to hit like a soggy noodle.

100 elemental expert - 50 (into crit damage) - rest into therm. Maximize your damage output this way.

This is not true if you planned on going twice born star and elegant set in this case I'd drop therm all together and go more crit.

Overloads can hit upwards of 55k with spinner and elegant but as I'm sure you've realised running lower than 58% crit is HIT AND MISS so in saying that you LOSE so much dps.

Luke

Bryanonymous · December 2016

Removed.

Lukums1 · December 2016

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Crit is only 50% higher than normal damage, so if you have a lower damage output, the crit is lower as well. With 5 Julianos, 4 Mothers Sorrow, 3 spell damage jewelry enchants, inner light, thief mundus, divines armor, all gold, I have 71% spell crit and 3k spell damage when I hit power surge. My magic sustain sucks, but I keep dark conversion on my overload bar. Also not even 400cp yet, so more passives will help me a lot.

Makes no sense why you're running that way, would you not rather equip 5 spinners or even 5 elegant instead of obtaining the 6% more crit?

Not trying to be rude but it seems like you're missing out of a lot of damage there in my opinion.

In all honesty you should be running the purple food, max health, magicka and regen I doubt you'd have many issues with regen should be at 1400-1500.

No need for dark conversion expensive slot to put on your bar for sure!

Bryanonymous · December 2016

Removed.

Dharmabum · December 2016

How does the magicka stat play into it? I've got 43 magicka and 21 health. Should I be going all magicka because otherwise, I've never had base spell damage over 2000.

Bryanonymous · December 2016

Removed.

Nestor · December 2016

Dharmabum wrote: »

How does the magicka stat play into it? I've got 43 magicka and 21 health. Should I be going all magicka because otherwise, I've never had base spell damage over 2000.

Its bonuses and enchants the like that boost Spell damage over the Weapon Damage stat.

And, yes, you should be all in on Magic, little to no points in Health. Big increase in DPS that way. I even sport partial Nectroptence oe Syrbane Sets or 3 Piece Willpower for the extra magic. Makes a difference in DPS (increasing magic) that does not show up in Spell Damage.

But, most of my Casters wear some variation of the following

5 Piece Julianos, all Magic Glyphs, Infused on Large, Divines on Small
3 Piece Will Power
Molag Kena Shoulder
Torugs 2 Piece (Could be Vicious Death or something else that gives 2 Piece Spell Damage)
On characters that don't have Willpower, then I run Syrbane or a Viscous Death/Torug's Combo 2 Pieces each for the Bonus to stack Spell Power

On the Jewelry, I run Spell Power Enchants on one or two pieces, and Spell Cost Reduction on one or two pieces. This varies depending on the character and how I play them.

threefarms · December 2016

Sweet spot for crit is 60-70 for the mag sorc, so you may be just a little over what is considered "how to maximize dps". You would benefit more from 65% crit and a higher spell damage for sure. Stamina builds benefit from a crit over 70% but that's for another thread.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2016

Are you by chance running precise weapons? Your crit is really high. I would be more worried about the balance between crit and penetration than crit and spell damage. If you arent running Sharp weapons, that is your first priority.

Bandit1215 · December 2016

oTheTownDrunk wrote: »

I believe there is a point where extra crit% is not worth it. And I believe its around 50-60%. That being said keep your crit around 55% and increase that SD as much as possible.

nah, you want AS MUCH crit as possible. In pve, i say the point to stop getting crit is 90%.

Dharmabum · December 2016

Thanks for all the feedback. From what I understand, spell damage and max magicka are both important for ability damage but spell critical is still king for power surge. I've dialed the latter back to 68% in order to add some spell damage, magicka, and health for better balance. To be honest, I wasn't paying enough attention to enchantments. That's what you get when you dive back into the game after a long hiatus. Cheers!

Biro123 · December 2016

I'm a bit bemused as to why you are factoring power surge in this so much?

Yes, the heal triggers when you crit - but it can trigger off dot crits too (you are using dots?) - and light attack weaves.. so even with one dot running, you get a light attack, ability, tick going off every second - so the law of averages would say that a 33% crit chance would be enough to trigger that heal every second. Adding more dots/more targets just increases the chance even more.

This is besides the point that you would be better off relying on a shield to avoid getting hurt in the first place...

Also power surge gives a 20% increase to spell damage (NOT overall damage) - so if your spell damage is so low (1119) - it will only add around 220 spell dmg to that.. Obviously if your spell damage was double that - power surge would give double the boost.

Its a decent ability - but I'm not sure you are looking at it the right way to make the most out of it.

btw.. around 10 max magicka has around the same effect on dmg as one spell damage stat. (but the max magicka part isn't impacted by anything that boosts spell dmg - like power surge)

Izaki · December 2016

Bandit1215 wrote: »

oTheTownDrunk wrote: »

I believe there is a point where extra crit% is not worth it. And I believe its around 50-60%. That being said keep your crit around 55% and increase that SD as much as possible.

nah, you want AS MUCH crit as possible. In pve, i say the point to stop getting crit is 90%.

^ What he said.

Btw towndrunk, stop spreading misinformation plzkthx.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2016

Couple things: As stated, Power surge has nothing to do with this discussion whatsoever. It gives major sorcery, which is a spell damage buff, and a nice heal. Anyone trying to be competitive at end game and pull top DPS will get their major sorcery from spell power potions and the heal from a healer. Don't get me wrong, it's a highly useful skill, especially when solo (VMA) or pugging, but it is not relevant to this discussion and has not place in an end game DPS build.

As for people saying 90% is good for magic, they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. The only way you are going to get that high is to stack crit through the roof and run precise weapons. I assure you that this has been thoroughly tested and does not result in the highest DPS.

First, sharp weapons are a must. Your first priority is to get your penetration to about 18k. This is best done with 5 light armor (passive), sharp weapons (trait), major breach and crusher glyph (tank), and other support sets like alkosh.

Then, you want to wear a monster set. Llambris is king on Sorc. These 2 piece bonuses add far more DPS then any other 2 piece. Llambris can do upwards of 6k on a boss fight.

Then, you want to get your 5 percent damage bonus from either Aether or moondancer. Aether is preferable because crit does outweigh magic in terms of one set bonus on a sorc.

Lastly you want a 5 piece. TBS and BSW are the best options. Neither do much of anything for crit (BSW gives one bonus). The only other places crit comes from is your mundus and divines armor pieces to boost the thief mundus and major prophecy from inner light or potions.

Top sorcs sit at around 65% crit in trials.

Dharmabum · December 2016

Actually, Power Surge has everything to do with this discussion. I'm not trying to find the optimal endgame group build for dungeon runs. Rather, I'm a casual solo player who wants to optimize a Power Surge DPS build. I welcome any additional info for consideration but I must say, there seems to be a lot of disagreement!

Waffennacht · December 2016

@Oreyn_Bearclaw ilambris is considered BiS because it procs via attack and in group play doesn't have much requirements to proc right? Cuz with just pure dps via set, IG deals more dps than ilambris. (Meaning in solo play - or PvP - IG would be better)

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2016

Dharmabum wrote: »

How does the magicka stat play into it? I've got 43 magicka and 21 health. Should I be going all magicka because otherwise, I've never had base spell damage over 2000.

21 in health is a lot. My advice to everyone is to enchant all their gear with magic, put on blue Heath + magic food, make sure you have your bars and Passives sorted out, then reset your attributes. Then add health until you are at about 18k and dump the rest into magic. Assuming you have max CP, all undaunted passives, 5/1/1 armor, and gold enchants on your gear, you will be right around 17k health with no points into health. If you wear TBS it will be over 18k. 17k is plenty, but I wouldn't start there. The goal is to get comfortable enough to run all 64 into magic, but it's not where I would start.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw ilambris is considered BiS because it procs via attack and in group play doesn't have much requirements to proc right? Cuz with just pure dps via set, IG deals more dps than ilambris. (Meaning in solo play - or PvP - IG would be better)

@Waffennacht

As we are talking PVE DPS, I wouldnt even consider Infernal Guardian. It is very strong (arguably Broken as it ignores line of sight) in PVP. In PVE, you just should not be casting that many damage shields. Even in VMA, Llambris is better for people pushing scores. I cast maybe 1-2 shields per round, and Llambris procs constantly. If you are brand new to VMA and doing a lot of shield spamming, I think this set is really strong, but I would not personally run it.

Llambris was clearly designed for Sorcs. We have a huge lightening DOT in liquid Lightning and a huge Flame DOT in elemental blockade. We also use Force pulse as are main weave so we are again hitting with both types of damage. On 40k VMOL parses, I usually see my 2 llambris procs (fire and shock) hit for 2.5-3k each. That is 5-6k DPS, which is a LOT for a monster set. If you are standing right in the middle of big trash pulls, Grothdar also merits consideration. As I play my sorc at range, Grothdar is far less appealing.

Some people run skoria. It is not bad DPS after the buff, and the health is nice, but it is not in the same league as Llambris on long fights if looking for pure DPS. If you are serious about PVE DPS on a mSorc, this is your first grind priority. Your second priority is Aether Jewelry and at least one Armor piece in Divines. Your third priority is a Sharp Aether Light Staff and Sharp VMA inferno staff. Something like Elegant or Willpower is a fine sub for Aether, and if you dont have the staffs, you can simply craft TBS staffs to make sure you get a Sharp trait.

BIS Sorc gear for pure DPS looks like this:
Jewelry: Aether
Head, Shoulders: Llambris
Rest of Armor: TBS or BSW
Front Bar: SHARP aether Light staff
Back Bar: SHARP VMA inferno.

If you dont have both staffs in sharp (one in precise does NOT cut it), then a very close second place for gear is:

Jewelry: Aether
Head, Shoulders: Llambris
Rest of Armor: 4 TBS and 1 Aether
Front Bar: SHARP TBS Light staff
Back Bar: SHARP TBS inferno.

The TBS could also be BSW, but getting both of those staffs in BSW would be quite the chore. Your efforts would be better focused on getting the Aether and VMA staff. I say this 10 times a day, if you arent running Sharp staffs, you are doing it wrong. All other traits are garbage in PVE as a magic DPS. No exceptions.

clv · December 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Couple things: As stated, Power surge has nothing to do with this discussion whatsoever. It gives major sorcery, which is a spell damage buff, and a nice heal. Anyone trying to be competitive at end game and pull top DPS will get their major sorcery from spell power potions and the heal from a healer. Don't get me wrong, it's a highly useful skill, especially when solo (VMA) or pugging, but it is not relevant to this discussion and has not place in an end game DPS build.

As for people saying 90% is good for magic, they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. The only way you are going to get that high is to stack crit through the roof and run precise weapons. I assure you that this has been thoroughly tested and does not result in the highest DPS.

First, sharp weapons are a must. Your first priority is to get your penetration to about 18k. This is best done with 5 light armor (passive), sharp weapons (trait), major breach and crusher glyph (tank), and other support sets like alkosh.

Then, you want to wear a monster set. Llambris is king on Sorc. These 2 piece bonuses add far more DPS then any other 2 piece. Llambris can do upwards of 6k on a boss fight.

Then, you want to get your 5 percent damage bonus from either Aether or moondancer. Aether is preferable because crit does outweigh magic in terms of one set bonus on a sorc.

Lastly you want a 5 piece. TBS and BSW are the best options. Neither do much of anything for crit (BSW gives one bonus). The only other places crit comes from is your mundus and divines armor pieces to boost the thief mundus and major prophecy from inner light or potions.

Top sorcs sit at around 65% crit in trials.

64.8% to be pedantic, and without minor prophecy which is assumed to be up at all times since F R A G S

Lukums1 · December 2016

clv wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Couple things: As stated, Power surge has nothing to do with this discussion whatsoever. It gives major sorcery, which is a spell damage buff, and a nice heal. Anyone trying to be competitive at end game and pull top DPS will get their major sorcery from spell power potions and the heal from a healer. Don't get me wrong, it's a highly useful skill, especially when solo (VMA) or pugging, but it is not relevant to this discussion and has not place in an end game DPS build.

As for people saying 90% is good for magic, they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. The only way you are going to get that high is to stack crit through the roof and run precise weapons. I assure you that this has been thoroughly tested and does not result in the highest DPS.

First, sharp weapons are a must. Your first priority is to get your penetration to about 18k. This is best done with 5 light armor (passive), sharp weapons (trait), major breach and crusher glyph (tank), and other support sets like alkosh.

Then, you want to wear a monster set. Llambris is king on Sorc. These 2 piece bonuses add far more DPS then any other 2 piece. Llambris can do upwards of 6k on a boss fight.

Then, you want to get your 5 percent damage bonus from either Aether or moondancer. Aether is preferable because crit does outweigh magic in terms of one set bonus on a sorc.

Lastly you want a 5 piece. TBS and BSW are the best options. Neither do much of anything for crit (BSW gives one bonus). The only other places crit comes from is your mundus and divines armor pieces to boost the thief mundus and major prophecy from inner light or potions.

Top sorcs sit at around 65% crit in trials.

64.8% to be pedantic, and without minor prophecy which is assumed to be up at all times since F R A G S

Bear, right as always the above is 100% correct I giggled when I saw the 90% crit... I have to say LOL

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2016

clv wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Couple things: As stated, Power surge has nothing to do with this discussion whatsoever. It gives major sorcery, which is a spell damage buff, and a nice heal. Anyone trying to be competitive at end game and pull top DPS will get their major sorcery from spell power potions and the heal from a healer. Don't get me wrong, it's a highly useful skill, especially when solo (VMA) or pugging, but it is not relevant to this discussion and has not place in an end game DPS build.

As for people saying 90% is good for magic, they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. The only way you are going to get that high is to stack crit through the roof and run precise weapons. I assure you that this has been thoroughly tested and does not result in the highest DPS.

First, sharp weapons are a must. Your first priority is to get your penetration to about 18k. This is best done with 5 light armor (passive), sharp weapons (trait), major breach and crusher glyph (tank), and other support sets like alkosh.

Then, you want to wear a monster set. Llambris is king on Sorc. These 2 piece bonuses add far more DPS then any other 2 piece. Llambris can do upwards of 6k on a boss fight.

Then, you want to get your 5 percent damage bonus from either Aether or moondancer. Aether is preferable because crit does outweigh magic in terms of one set bonus on a sorc.

Lastly you want a 5 piece. TBS and BSW are the best options. Neither do much of anything for crit (BSW gives one bonus). The only other places crit comes from is your mundus and divines armor pieces to boost the thief mundus and major prophecy from inner light or potions.

Top sorcs sit at around 65% crit in trials.

64.8% to be pedantic, and without minor prophecy which is assumed to be up at all times since F R A G S

I would have to double check, but I think that is the number with BSW. With TBS, my crit is just over 62% with inner light and the thief, but no other buffs, and I am running all gold Meta gear. Point is still the same. You dont need to stack crit through the roof, and some things are more important than raw stats. Shadow Mundus (TBS), Monster Sets, and Minor Slayer (jewelry) both add huge DPS, but arent going to show anywhere in the tool tip or stat sheet. You could certainly replace your head shoulders and jewelry with a 5 piece crit set like mother sorrow. You will look at your stats and think its better, but you your DPS will suffer.