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Did anyone notice that stamina heals better than magicka heals?
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Obviously because everything except Hard Veteran TRIALS can be completed without a healer, we are talking self heals in PvP. PvE is so stupidly easy I don't know why anyone discusses it. Just solo, there PvE done.
Now to topic. There is no viable self heal in PvP, the closest is healing ward (and it's a ward not a heal really... but I listed it so there)
Stam based HoTs are viable and allow you to attack while its occuring (hello destro ult) while for a magicka build you CANNOT attack while trying to heal. Broken in dueling0 -
LjAnimalchin✭✭✭Anybody who seriously thinks vigor can outheal BOL or that magicka builds have no viable self heals in pvp need to take a step back. Go roll a stam toon and post the clips of you tanking multiple people using just vigor please. My normal pvp group is mainly stam players and we can get a LOT more done with just one or two magicka builds providing heals and shields.3 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Reading people whine about vigor so much lately, I've come to the conclusion that my Vigor must be bugged and not functioning fully. Where are my OP heals!?
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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WhiteMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reading people whine about vigor so much lately, I've come to the conclusion that my Vigor must be bugged and not functioning fully. Where are my OP heals!?
That would be the power gap, for which power creep is responsible, that keeps you from seeing the same effects as other players. We need to be looking at the highest values players can reasonably attain to evaluate the balance of something.
The generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?0 -
Jimbullbee85✭✭✭✭I see a few trolls trying to discourage the OPs argument by making things up. Breath of life is a templar ability and the best heal In the game if used by a magicka build. The OP clearly omitted templar from the point being made. IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMMENT ON A POST AND BE A TROLL AT LEAST READ THE WHOLE POST FIRST.Jimbullbee, Templar healer battlemage2 -
Jimbullbee85✭✭✭✭I know for a fact that my heals in pvp are capped because they aren't as powerful on my templar healer. Which doesnt make sense to me seeing as dps is buffed. I'm not sure if the same cap has been put onto Vigor. Probably not because it's anti zerg. PVP has been anti zerg for a while now giving rise to zerg bombers and super tank dps builds since the sorc shields got nerfed. It's a shame because zerging is the whole point of warfare in a game like this.Jimbullbee, Templar healer battlemage0
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Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Jimbullbee85 wrote: »I know for a fact that my heals in pvp are capped because they aren't as powerful on my templar healer. Which doesnt make sense to me seeing as dps is buffed. I'm not sure if the same cap has been put onto Vigor. Probably not because it's anti zerg. PVP has been anti zerg for a while now giving rise to zerg bombers and super tank dps builds since the sorc shields got nerfed. It's a shame because zerging is the whole point of warfare in a game like this.
I honestly don't know what I disagree with most in this post.Daggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||2 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree and it's sad, stamina Vigor is much more OP heal versus poor healing springs/mutagen, even on magicka pvp healer, and not templar/sorcerer. I'm trying to heal in PVP with my magicka nightblade, pvp gears, 34k magicka, 2,5k magicka regen but only 1,7k basic healing tick with healing springs. I can only spam this spell multiple times to sustain someone and see how a stamina user uses vigor instantly healing self and ppl around with 1-2 ticks.
Usually my ticks give much lower heal than 1,7k. This is ridiculously ineffective to be staff magicka healer.Edited by Gargath on December 7, 2016 7:54PMPC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."1 -
Jimbullbee85✭✭✭✭Sallington wrote: »Jimbullbee85 wrote: »I know for a fact that my heals in pvp are capped because they aren't as powerful on my templar healer. Which doesnt make sense to me seeing as dps is buffed. I'm not sure if the same cap has been put onto Vigor. Probably not because it's anti zerg. PVP has been anti zerg for a while now giving rise to zerg bombers and super tank dps builds since the sorc shields got nerfed. It's a shame because zerging is the whole point of warfare in a game like this.
I honestly don't know what I disagree with most in this post.
Care to explain?Jimbullbee, Templar healer battlemage0 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭DannyLV702 wrote: »
Like most comedians, @Alucardo's remarks sometimes need a beat or two before they land
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SquareSausage✭✭✭✭✭DW also has lots of stamina based heals from morphes of damage abilities.
Bloodthirst and Bloodcraze, combine thats with crit surge yeaa!Edited by SquareSausage on December 7, 2016 8:01PMBreakfast KingPS4 EU0 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Tbh I cannot find these very effective on my pure stamina DW dps templar. One reason I started farming Alliance points to get vigor. In my opinion these DW abilities are too weak to be effective solo against tougher opponents like bosses. With Vigor it's easy, without it's a pain.SquareSausage wrote: »DW also has lots of stamina based heals from morphes of damage abilities.
Bloodthirst and Bloodcraze, combine thats with crit surge yeaa!
Edited by Gargath on December 7, 2016 8:06PMPC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have stam characters with vigor and a Mtemplar.
My stam characters dont have anywhere near the healing capability of my Mtemplar. Not even close.Beta tester November 20132 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gees I'm surprised at all the "my dedicated healer can healz my groups in Fungal Grotto, you're outta your mind!" posts... smh0 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Jimbullbee85 wrote: »I know for a fact that my heals in pvp are capped because they aren't as powerful on my templar healer. Which doesnt make sense to me seeing as dps is buffed. I'm not sure if the same cap has been put onto Vigor. Probably not because it's anti zerg. PVP has been anti zerg for a while now giving rise to zerg bombers and super tank dps builds since the sorc shields got nerfed. It's a shame because zerging is the whole point of warfare in a game like this.
Here's my explanation:
Heals are not capped in PvP. Nonsense statement, don't know why/how you would know that as a fact. (unless you mean the 50% reduction ALL heals get in Cyrodil)
Vigor not having said non-existent cap being anti-zerg? I don't even know what that means, or how you drew a conclusion like that.
PvP has been anti-zerg for a while? I didn't know they removed AoE caps without me noticing. Or did they add back in ground oils? I'm perplexed.
I don't understand the relationship between shield nerfs, super tank dps buids, and this "anti-zerg" meta.
Keep warfare is the point of AvAvA I guess you could say, but that is far different than mindless zergs of 50 people potatoing keeps, literally just winning because of numbers.Edited by Sallington on December 7, 2016 8:53PMDaggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||2 -
itsfatbass✭✭✭✭✭I don't do any PvP, but I can tell you that both BoL and Healing Springs are not the crappy heals that some of these people are posting. I'm an end-game PvE'er and I can tell you that Healing Springs outparses every other heals on my Combat metrics, and on boss fights lasting 3 mins +, it does more than 45% of the healing. Breath of Life is also great, while it's not meant to be used as a primary heal, it's the best OH *** heal in game. And mind you this is with ZERO champion points into healing, I have my build spec set with Thaum/Ele Expert points used in the Mage tree. If i were to max out Blessed, the benefit would be 25% greater.Edited by itsfatbass on December 7, 2016 8:58PM~PC/NA~ Magblade, Tankanist, Healplar, Stamcro, Oakensorc, Healden, Tanknight ~PLUR~1 -
Jimbullbee85✭✭✭✭Sallington wrote: »Jimbullbee85 wrote: »I know for a fact that my heals in pvp are capped because they aren't as powerful on my templar healer. Which doesnt make sense to me seeing as dps is buffed. I'm not sure if the same cap has been put onto Vigor. Probably not because it's anti zerg. PVP has been anti zerg for a while now giving rise to zerg bombers and super tank dps builds since the sorc shields got nerfed. It's a shame because zerging is the whole point of warfare in a game like this.
Here's my explanation:
Heals are not capped in PvP. Nonsense statement, don't know why/how you would know that as a fact. (unless you mean the 50% reduction ALL heals get in Cyrodil)
Vigor not having said non-existent cap being anti-zerg? I don't even know what that means, or how you drew a conclusion like that.
PvP has been anti-zerg for a while? I didn't know they removed AoE caps without me noticing. Or did they add back in ground oils? I'm perplexed.
I don't understand the relationship between shield nerfs, super tank dps buids, and this "anti-zerg" meta.
Keep warfare is the point of AvAvA I guess you could say, but that is far different than mindless zergs of 50 people potatoing keeps, literally just winning because of numbers.
The only thing that I assumed was that my heals are capped in pvp. So I was slightly wrong on that. Everything else was speculation. You sound intelligent but youre obviously struggling with the word "probably" and the term "not sure". You're attitude also suggests that you yourself is anti-zerg. Superior numbers is the bread and butter to winning a battle in any concept of war. Only strategy can overcome it and thats what's lacking in this game. It's not a zerg problem it's a social communication problem. It's the one man army wannabes and the small tactless groups who are the problem. Players who strole into a war zone on their own and are completely dumbfounded to the point of fury when killed by a group of 15 amaze me and make me LOL.Edited by Jimbullbee85 on December 7, 2016 9:16PMJimbullbee, Templar healer battlemage0 -
Julianos✭✭✭✭✭Jimbullbee85 wrote: »Sallington wrote: »Jimbullbee85 wrote: »I know for a fact that my heals in pvp are capped because they aren't as powerful on my templar healer. Which doesnt make sense to me seeing as dps is buffed. I'm not sure if the same cap has been put onto Vigor. Probably not because it's anti zerg. PVP has been anti zerg for a while now giving rise to zerg bombers and super tank dps builds since the sorc shields got nerfed. It's a shame because zerging is the whole point of warfare in a game like this.
Here's my explanation:
Heals are not capped in PvP. Nonsense statement, don't know why/how you would know that as a fact. (unless you mean the 50% reduction ALL heals get in Cyrodil)
Vigor not having said non-existent cap being anti-zerg? I don't even know what that means, or how you drew a conclusion like that.
PvP has been anti-zerg for a while? I didn't know they removed AoE caps without me noticing. Or did they add back in ground oils? I'm perplexed.
I don't understand the relationship between shield nerfs, super tank dps buids, and this "anti-zerg" meta.
Keep warfare is the point of AvAvA I guess you could say, but that is far different than mindless zergs of 50 people potatoing keeps, literally just winning because of numbers.
The only thing that I assumed was that my heals are capped in pvp. So I was slightly wrong on that. Everything else was speculation. You sound intelligent but youre obviously struggling with the word "probably" and the term "not sure". You're attitude also suggests that you yourself is anti-zerg. Superior numbers is the bread and butter to winning a battle in any concept of war. Only strategy can overcome it and thats what's lacking in this game. It's not a zerg problem it's a social communication problem. It's the one man army wannabes and the small tactless groups who are the problem. Players who strole into a war zone on their own and are completely dumbfounded to the point of fury when killed by a group of 15 amaze me and make me LOL.
Very true i always playing with my pvp guild which it has 2 raids in prime time and we are organized and small groups like 5 or 3 attacks us hoping they will kill us all when they die sending whispers insulting trash player 1v1? Etc. Dude just gtfo if you want to 1v1 go duel or go to imperial city. Just stay away cyrodiil i tried soloing cyrodiil too or played small scale and it was boring as hell those people are really lame wannabies.Jimbullbee85 wrote: »I see a few trolls trying to discourage the OPs argument by making things up. Breath of life is a templar ability and the best heal In the game if used by a magicka build. The OP clearly omitted templar from the point being made. IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMMENT ON A POST AND BE A TROLL AT LEAST READ THE WHOLE POST FIRST.
Thanks man
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Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you are not templar or healer but using resto staff on back bar for self healing as a magicka dps, ability heals are so slow and small. Any stamina build with rally+vigor can outperform lame ass resto staff heals this is just another pathetic example that show how this game is broken.
Im talking about pvp btw
Troll post?Power Wealth And Influence.1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Knootewoot wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »But, but you have more sustain.....
Oh wait we don't. We got less or same sustain, lower damage/burst, and now lower healing. And we have less defense if we want to enjoy our loin cloth armor.
but you have range?
Tell that to mister bowtard or the spearspamming stamplars using deathray vision.
And as melee magblade I do not have range (and thus recently use firestaff a lot more)
Archers suck in this game, so that point is moot.
mNB has range and can deal decent dmg from range.Power Wealth And Influence.2 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭Knootewoot wrote: »But, but you have more sustain.....
Oh wait we don't. We got less or same sustain, lower damage/burst, and now lower healing. And we have less defense if we want to enjoy our loin cloth armor.
but you have range?
there is no such thing as range in pvp in ESO. Spammable snaring CCing gap closers make sure of this. That is fact. Range just does not exist with the current forms of cheap spammable gap closers.2 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sallington wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »But, but you have more sustain.....
Oh wait we don't. We got less or same sustain, lower damage/burst, and now lower healing. And we have less defense if we want to enjoy our loin cloth armor.
but you have range?
Tell that to mister bowtard or the spearspamming stamplars using deathray vision.
And as melee magblade I do not have range (and thus recently use firestaff a lot more)
What you lack in range, you more that makeup for with mobility. Lotus Fan? Cloak? Blur (Magicka Shuffle w/ major expedition)? Infinite cloak on a magblade is one of the most ridiculous tools in any classes arsenal.
What is this mobility you speak of on a Magknight or Magplar without being a Dark Elf Vampire?1 -
Julianos✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »If you are not templar or healer but using resto staff on back bar for self healing as a magicka dps, ability heals are so slow and small. Any stamina build with rally+vigor can outperform lame ass resto staff heals this is just another pathetic example that show how this game is broken.
Im talking about pvp btw
Troll post?
Its not troll at all i played all classes magicka and stam build versions if you are a dps magicka its so hard to heal yourself to full while a stamina nb bursting your butt non stop+CC if you have shields you have to spam shields and if you stop shield to deal damage you are dead but if you are a stamina you can get to full health from %5 to %100 in just one or two second i experienced this myself and fought againts those roll dodge vigor rally types i bring them to %10 but with 1 roll dodge vigor rally boom they are at full this is too much1 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭SquareSausage wrote: »DW also has lots of stamina based heals from morphes of damage abilities.
Bloodthirst and Bloodcraze, combine thats with crit surge yeaa!
As a newly Stamsorc coming from Magicka. I can finally say I see the light. Vigor, surge, bloodcraze, and hurricane must I say anymore. It's pretty sad that me as a magicka based fanboy had to concede defeat, roll stam and finally L2P which is btw more powerful in PvP then most if not all of the magicka based builds using the same effort and skill level.
Yes vigor in Cyrodill ticks for 3.5k on top of my other stam heals that does great damage and heal at the same time. Btw this is not even on a stamplar, some the heals would be even more on a stamplar. I honestly feel like there should be no debate on the matter, that in PvP with equal numbers, skill level, and effort, stamina is just beyond heads and shoulders above magicka atm.
Not to mention Major Evasion not being effective at all by the pvp debuff, like shields are despite being way more overpowered at many times then not in my opinion. Nothing like being to evade 4 big huge attacks after getting bursted down to less then 2k health only to finally burn thru a magicka based player's stam pool, CC, and win. MagKnight tanks yall do not apply here.
My conclusion is Vigor alone not OP at all. However mix Vigor with all of the extra benifits stamina has access to that magicka doesn't, make it stand out when they attack and heal while evading your damage while doing big burst damage with one skill and abunch of proc sets. GG, that's all I have to say on this tread, on the matter.3 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭LjAnimalchin wrote: »I think, honestly, the overwhelming majority of players in general are magicka builds. Go try actually play stam. Stamina healing is fine. Leave it alone!
I haven't observed that but who cares. I don't think anyone was asking or advocating for vigor to get nerfed.Ihatenightblades wrote: »There is only about 3 balance problems ln this game.
Poisons
Eye of storm
Fassala
Those 3 right there can ruin the game over time if it doesnt get fixed
Maybe not fassala but poisons ( drain poisons ) and eye of storm ( destro ult ) need to go
Lol I Have heard this about nearly everything in the game at some point and every other game out there. Guess what the game is still going. I am still having fun so from my perspective it is not ruined.
I think people need to have multiple different classes and actually play them. That way when something is nerfed or buffed people don't have to come to forums crying, but can adapt and switch things up. Also gives a better view on what is really going on, but alas poeple will jump on any train passing through to launch complaints.Edited by alexkdd99 on December 8, 2016 3:01AM0 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭The jokes. So....bad......
Next time you are in combat running 2s in cyrodiil just check how much having 2 vigors rolling 90% of the time on a stam build with major vitality/heavy armor on heal for. Or a Templar healing from execute to full 1 button press.
Healing is broke in ESO. No one wants to admit skills are OP because Hurricane Wrobel will nerf them into uselessness and buff random, non broke skills.
Nerf Sorcs0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jphipps85b14_ESO1 wrote: »I don't do any PvP, but I can tell you that both BoL and Healing Springs are not the crappy heals that some of these people are posting. I'm an end-game PvE'er and I can tell you that Healing Springs outparses every other heals on my Combat metrics, and on boss fights lasting 3 mins +, it does more than 45% of the healing. Breath of Life is also great, while it's not meant to be used as a primary heal, it's the best OH *** heal in game. And mind you this is with ZERO champion points into healing, I have my build spec set with Thaum/Ele Expert points used in the Mage tree. If i were to max out Blessed, the benefit would be 25% greater.
In PvP, fights are rarely static. Stacking healing springs is less rewarding than it is in a stack-and-burn dungeon strategy because aside from some choke points players keep moving out of your heals.
BoL, like Healing Ward, is very powerful, but the targeting sucks. Instead of healing that vital player in your group, it might go to a nearby ally who is AFK. And I can't tell you how many times a squishy sorc has cast a healing ward and it's gone to my tanky DK with a full 32k health bar instead.
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