Constant, weak sneak attacks??

Tapio75 · December 2016

Hey!

I shall return to this subject to ask if anyone else is experiencing påroblems with sneak attacks (CROUCH).

Day after day, i try to do it all right, sneak behind a target and stab the pointy end of daggers to the enemy or shoot with an arrow from distance, also from behind.

Been playing this from launch, mostly with sneaking nightblades and sneak attack from behind have always take at least hald of NPC enemys health away on the first blow and couple weapon attacks or skills have finished it all to enemys death.

Now my sneak attacks always seem to take maximum of 20% health off the enemy NPC, only couple of times has the attack hitted like before taking 50% or more away from first hit, couple of times here means couple 2-10 in a week of playing for hours. after initial sneak attack, my blade heavy attacks and skills (Dual wield) seem to hit very weak, it looks as if health bar only drops 2-5% per hit which seems like a joke to me considering the role of nightblade (Lore/logically).

In sneak attacks, it feels like the game does not fully register my position relative to enemy.

I understand that if we bring challenge/difficulty to the picture, a player character needs not to be OP at all but challenge or difficulty is far from this as enemies cant really kill me at all if i put minimal effort to defense. All in all it does not feel very enjoyable to play an assassin armed with dual wield noodles as that is how the amount of damage is on my part.

It cant be my gear, i have exellent purple gear and weapons equal to my level, i have all the bonuses that effect my skills or weapons so that cant be it either.

The question in my mind right now is that is the charactewr i play been nerfed so hard that it does not feel fun to play or am i a victim of some bug that is going to be adressed in future patch?

Final note, my magicka users compared to stamina nightblade seem way much stronger currently.

Nestor · December 2016

Hmm, have not played my Stamblade in a while. I will do some testing tonight, but a while ago, sneak bonus was still being applied, but maybe not as much as it used to.

Just to make sure, your not wearing the Flanking set or something that could have an effect that might not be working right?

Kronz · December 2016

I use a 2hander but I one shot normal mobs with a heavy attack from stealth.

Tapio75 · December 2016

Using vampires kiss currently.

How much is the sneak bonus supposed to be these days?

This new scaling enemy thing is great, i can finally play where ever i want but i feel it quite annoying that i basically need to upgrade my stuff every 2 levels now when before one Tamriel, i one set at the beginning of zone was enough.

Tapio75 · December 2016

PS: Keep in mind that i am talking about crouch sneak here, i use it because it feels most like the traditional Elder Scrolls sneak stuff.

idk · December 2016

@Tapio75

Last update increased the resistance of mobs in dungeons and such. It's may have done the same with open world where resistances were low.

SantieClaws · December 2016

Khajiit she read the title as constant snack attacks.

Indeed this is an issue for many of my fellow travellers.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

BlackSparrow · December 2016

What level are you, and what zone are you in? One Tamriel aside, I've noticed my DW sneak-stabby type still cuts through the mobs in "lower level" zones like butter, while it takes her a bit longer to whittle down the mobs in zones that used to be higher level than her.

Also, when was the last time you played this character? Stealth backstabs got a nerf sometime in the first year of the game, iirc. It used to be that my backstabber one-shot most mobs without issue. Now... not so much.

Yeah, 20% sounds about right. I'm fond of the teleport-strike-from-behind as an opener, and that will take about 20-30% off most mobs. Even better if you hit them with a debuff beforehand (I use the NB mark... it decreases their defenses and doesn't aggro them).

Kronz wrote: »

I use a 2hander but I one shot normal mobs with a heavy attack from stealth.

I've seen this mentioned before. Is this a case of different weapon types doing more damage? You'd think DW would be at least on par with 2H on a sneak attack, but stranger things have happened.

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

Are you running divines on your gear ? What mundus did you select ?

Tapio75 · December 2016

Level 44, currently doing starter areas. No divines in gear, never had need for them, not doing instances. Thief active.

i dont use teleport strike/ambush at all, seems to be way better hit with crouch sneak and basic heavy attack with dw daggers. Takes half away when the attack is succesful.

It is the bow that dont seem to work at all. 20% from enemys total health when sneak attacking? Thats not how it should be, 20% is just an arrow to the knee thats aimed for head, a bad shot. Not a skillfully mastered sneak attack. If bow is supposed to be as it is on me, it has never been so far away from the TES bow users i have been playing since for ever.

Oh, someone asked me when i last played, it was 4 moths ago. I have basically been åplaying almost all the time since launch, just few moths away here and there.

Pirhana7_ESO · December 2016

Tapio75 wrote: »

Level 44, currently doing starter areas. No divines in gear, never had need for them, not doing instances. Thief active.

i dont use teleport strike/ambush at all, seems to be way better hit with crouch sneak and basic heavy attack with dw daggers. Takes half away when the attack is succesful.

It is the bow that dont seem to work at all.

For a Bow sneak attack to work you need to hit the target in the back or atleast from the side more towards the back. If you use Snipe as a sneak attack it should 1 shot any mob and take a champion mob to half life.

If you are a NB it should hit even harder. As a NB in melee use Surprise Attack/ Concealed Weapon as your opener

FriedEggSandwich · December 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Tapio75

Last update increased the resistance of mobs in dungeons and such. It's may have done the same with open world where resistances were low.

I think this is the most plausible explanation. OP try to increase your armour penetration to see if that makes a difference.

SirDopey · December 2016

Unless you're using snip bow's haven't been good from stealth for quite some time. As somebody has mentioned, resistance have been increased so you'll want to be running sharpened weapons and marked target to be getting any decent numbers...

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

No need for divines ok

Didaco · December 2016

I was bi-shotting mobs in IC just yesterday with my lowbie scumblade.

Have you tried casting cloak on top of stealth just before heavy attacking the target? That way you'll be sure the enemy won't detect you just an instant before receiving the blow.

lillybit · December 2016

I've noticed this too since OT launched. Before, my Ambush always hit for around 35k when I was properly sneaked. Now, I might get that 1 in maybe 5 tries. Doesn't matter how careful I am to be hidden or if I cloak or not, half the time I'll just tickle them with around 7k. I'm missing the consistency of the bigger hits from stealth.

Haven't changed anything between then and now and doesn't seem to matter where I am

Tapio75 · December 2016

Using cloak behind an enemy feels more like circumventing a bug that needs fixing than a real way to do things plus the cloak takes away a place in the action bar as do mark target.

I do know that you need to be behind a target to get sneak attack working, even while it feekls extremely stupid with bows

It does not matter, point blank from behind 20% scratch, side 20% scratch from front of enemy 20% scratch, no sneak bonus seems to happen on bow heavy sneak attacks at all. Snipe works yes, but it looks stupid when you are close to enemy.

MMO or not, some reality has to apply for weapons too, i mean you shoot someone with arrow, they should be hit hard if they dont see it coming and partially dodge the arrow which also is quite impossible in reality if you dont see the shot been shot. A stab in the back has to have somewhat realistic effect too. Naturally this all goes for PVE, in PVP there are other things to think of than relative fantasy realism.

Me saying divines are not needed means, that i dont feel particularly threatened by any non player character enough, to consider making myself more powerful through these. This game never felt like one that requires min maxing but if it has changed to that way, i consider it an extremely bad change for a TES game where making a character that fits its biography is more important than being efficient. That does not mean however, that characters should be weaker, they all need to be stronger in PVE without taking te best stuff available, only when competing against other players should the need arise for min maxing if point is to win somebody else who is a real person.

Tapio75 · December 2016

After a litle more testing, i have noticed a pattern where animals like wolves and bear seem to die as easily as always but all humanoid targets take forever to kill compared what it used to be last i played before On Tamriel.

As an extra info, it takes either Surprise attack+heavy attack+heavy attack+bloodthirst+killers blade to sneak kill an enemy or ambus+surprise attack+heavy attack+heavy a+heavya+heavy a+bloodrthirst+killers blade without stealth

Thats with daggers, maybe its just me but it feels a bit exessive as the amount of time needed to kill the enemy npc does not have any connection to survivability to threat from the npc enemy, they make barely a dent no matter how "badly" i try to play.

Maybe its the resistance thingy that makes it this way buit was it only meant to work inwside instances? Perphaps scaling has made this one weak? It is after all, before Tamriel opened borders that this one was blade playing. Khajit is frustrated.

Kronz · December 2016

Kronz wrote: »

I use a 2hander but I one shot normal mobs with a heavy attack from stealth.

I've seen this mentioned before. Is this a case of different weapon types doing more damage? You'd think DW would be at least on par with 2H on a sneak attack, but stranger things have happened.

[/quote]

I think its based on weapon damage and weapon damage from a 2hander is higher. Make sense to me if someone snuck up on me with a dagger and stuck me id be in trouble might die but if it was a giant two handed axe or sword I think it definitely do the trick.

Tapio75 · December 2016

I just tried a 2 hander, it seems to hit way harder even without any passives on the skill line O.o

Trouble with sneaking with giant weapons is, that it is quite a bit more fuss to move with these things that nimble daggers. You reeally would be in trouble if someone would hit you with giant weapon but the impact would mostly be blunt force which would make you way disoriented but not fatally injure you, not to mension it is impossible to stab someone with an axe or hammer, even with *** sword. It most likely would make you disabled and result to death but with daggers, one can easily stab your kidney or just slit your throat which would definitely do the trick. This is why daggers are weapon of choice to sneaky assassins though they wear cloth opposed to games leather, leather really is quite noisy you know

Really feels wrong. I also tried that i can sneak just as well in the heavy armor than i can in medium or at least it feels like that for someone accustomed to sneaking all the time.

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

With bow there is a Mage guild passive at full level that will empower your attacks if you slot a Mage skill like Mage light . The damage is significant especially from stealth . As much as you may not think Divines is necessary , try it . In does help in all areas of PVE not just trials . Relentless focus increases damage too . Keep the buff up at all times and see if you like it . A spinners set for Magblade or a spriggans set for stamblade will cut through NPCs pretty fast .

These are not min max things at all . Those set ups require even more gear and monster sets . This is just general sets and abilities needed now to be proficient .

Tapio75 · December 2016

Perphaps i shall try that, thanks for suggestions

What would you suggest for stam DW stealth which would not be crit bas4ed?

Is ambush "useless" in the action bar as anything else than gap closer? It does feel that things just die faster when i dont use it and go straight from crouch stealth to surprise attack? How is the cloak these days? Last time i tried about half a year ago or perphaps more, it was constantly breaking of anything and did not seem to work at all?

Regarding gear, i would really love something i can craft myself, its kind of important to me

Taleof2Cities · December 2016

Tapio75 wrote: »

Perphaps scaling has made this one weak? It is after all, before Tamriel opened borders that this one was blade playing. Khajit is frustrated.

Was going to ask this ... even though your gear is purple what level is it?

Scaling really needs a gear update every 10 levels at the most ... even if you're only trying to be semi-competitive. I update my non-vet gear on the "sixes" since that is the change in the mat tier (16, 26, 36, 46). However, some players update gear more often than that.

If you're just grinding XP to get to Vet then gear updates aren't as meaningful ...

Tapio75 · December 2016

At this time, i am 48 and my gear is all 42. Before this scaling, i use to update it "per zone" basis so somewhat on 10 level intervals.

I assume that the weapons are the most important to update and armor when i feel like im getting threatened by enemies?

I wish i could just select a non costume looks from craftavke gear so i could use stuff that drops, there have been many great drops lately but they all have the wwrong looks and costumes hinder creativity too much.

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

Ambush is not useless , it applies a debuff on the target that causes the next attack to be more powerful . If you are having troubles with damage you could get a Senche set , Sword Singer for your two handed , Marksman or Hundings rage , ashen grip mix cheap and so decent damage again . Most of those are in the affordable range . Try for divines and add some weapon damage enchants to sharpened weapons .

Tapio75 · December 2016

Guess its Hundings rage as thats the only craftable of those.

It just feels that without ambush, everything dies faster so i guess i stick on something else on that anyways.

I noticed that enemies seem to heal when i hit them with bloodthirst, whats up with that?

Taleof2Cities · December 2016

Tapio75 wrote: »

At this time, i am 48 and my gear is all 42. Before this scaling, i use to update it "per zone" basis so somewhat on 10 level intervals.

I assume that the weapons are the most important to update and armor when i feel like im getting threatened by enemies?

I wish i could just select a non costume looks from craftavke gear so i could use stuff that drops, there have been many great drops lately but they all have the wwrong looks and costumes hinder creativity too much.

No doubt Hunding's is a great set. But don't get pigeonholed into thinking that's the only option. On my lowbie (level 21) stamblade, I crafted Night Mother's Gaze (NMG) and it has been working decent in Cyrodiil. You can compliment that with a lot of other options ... either crafted or dropped. Clever Alchemist is another popular option. I found some Vicecannon pieces (including a necklace) which is pictured below with the NMG in Akaviri style. Just an example of getting a decent non-costume look without sacrificing character performance.

Yes, you'll want to craft/upgrade weapons first, armor second.

Sure, there needs to be a revamp of the lower-performing craftable sets ... so that there's more options for you to choose from. But, that's another topic and there are already existing (recent) threads.

Denyiir · December 2016

Dunno if stealth atacks got nerfed but with veli/viper/spriggan and heavy atack/suprise atack/bash combo I still one shot giants in orsinium

Also you can still use blade of woe to one shot human like mobs right?

AzuraKin · December 2016

Tapio75 wrote: »

Hey!

I shall return to this subject to ask if anyone else is experiencing påroblems with sneak attacks (CROUCH).

Day after day, i try to do it all right, sneak behind a target and stab the pointy end of daggers to the enemy or shoot with an arrow from distance, also from behind.

Been playing this from launch, mostly with sneaking nightblades and sneak attack from behind have always take at least hald of NPC enemys health away on the first blow and couple weapon attacks or skills have finished it all to enemys death.

Now my sneak attacks always seem to take maximum of 20% health off the enemy NPC, only couple of times has the attack hitted like before taking 50% or more away from first hit, couple of times here means couple 2-10 in a week of playing for hours. after initial sneak attack, my blade heavy attacks and skills (Dual wield) seem to hit very weak, it looks as if health bar only drops 2-5% per hit which seems like a joke to me considering the role of nightblade (Lore/logically).

In sneak attacks, it feels like the game does not fully register my position relative to enemy.

I understand that if we bring challenge/difficulty to the picture, a player character needs not to be OP at all but challenge or difficulty is far from this as enemies cant really kill me at all if i put minimal effort to defense. All in all it does not feel very enjoyable to play an assassin armed with dual wield noodles as that is how the amount of damage is on my part.

It cant be my gear, i have exellent purple gear and weapons equal to my level, i have all the bonuses that effect my skills or weapons so that cant be it either.

The question in my mind right now is that is the charactewr i play been nerfed so hard that it does not feel fun to play or am i a victim of some bug that is going to be adressed in future patch?

Final note, my magicka users compared to stamina nightblade seem way much stronger currently.

first of all need hard numbers. what is your max stamina, weapon power and health of target?

secondly what skill are you using to lead off (what hits first). also if i remember the order of power for stealth hitting its wrecking blow is most powerful followed by nb stam morph of concealed attack/blade whatever its called, followed by 2nd heavy attack/stam morph teleport strike followed by primary dual wield heavy attack (only first hit of dw heavy attack gets stealth bonus)