ESO's Potential Growth

MadLarkin · December 2016

"That's an...olive branch. Is that what you call it?" -Tony Stark

Allow me to extend one of my own. Crates are here, and apparently they're here to stay. I was as vocal as any of the naysayers. However, since our concerns seemingly carry little weight with the powers that be, let's look to the future. Ideally, the money made from crates could be used to expand ESO in new and exciting ways, with fresh content, refined gameplay mechanics, and quality of life improvements. Unfortunately, several MMO's, once they have integrated a gambling crate system, have thinned out their dev team (and their playerbase) by only keeping enough devs on board to keep filling the crates and perhaps releasing half-hearted content updates from time to time. Those games don't die, but they don't continue to grow and flourish, either. They exist in a sort of purgatory. My understanding of this is that the publishers/bean counters/suits want to line their pockets as much as possible for as long as possible before moving onto the next hunting ground.

With all of that in mind, would it be possible to open up some line of communication between ourselves and ZOS? To make sure ESO still has a bright future? Potentially, this could affect ZOS staff as well, should the powers that be decide that they only need enough devs to keep the crown crates flowing. Are we going to receive any reassurances that these crates are for the good of the game in the long run? I certainly have my doubts, but many of us would be willing to listen if the devs would be willing to actually open up and have a conversation. At the end of the day, we are your customers, and communication with your customers is paramount.

Note: I created a new thread for this because I felt this was different enough from the other crate discussions to warrant it. With that in mind, let's not let this devolve into another discussion about the existence of the crates. Let's make it a discussion about looking toward the future of ESO.

pewbis · December 2016

Honestly just waiting for these proc set nerfs and magicka balances...

As a magicka nightblade, pve is tough and pvp is out of the question

bellanca6561n · December 2016

ESO does not follow the sort of retention pattern of mpgames and its publisher has acknowledged this.

Thus its best to regard it as a vacation destination rather than home.

BuddyAces · December 2016

Its quite obvious the game is going f2p. All the signs are there. Dont matter to me anymore. Just enjoy the game until it hits the point where you're no longer having fun. ZOS has shown they don't give a *** about a healthy long term game. So if its a few more months or a year till it really goes down hill then so be it.

Mx13 · December 2016

Matt Frior said this on the One Tamriel reddit AMA when someone asked about the 2017 year ahead article:

Absolutely! I try to do that every January. We will have tons of good stuff to talk about in 2017, but let's get through the One Tamriel launch first.
Expect to see that post sometime in the first week of January.

So dont expect too much info until January.

Also...those personal attacks against the marketing director...smh

Mountain33r · December 2016

ZOS CEO talking to Funcom (Failcom) CEO in an interview. ZOS asks what has made them successful and if he could explain it into detail.

Its a rare video that you may not have seen. ZOS is the guy with his head down, taking notes.

ZOS and Funcom

ZOS_DaryaK · December 2016

We've removed a couple of posts that contained some misinformation.

Acrolas · December 2016

Mx13 wrote: »

Also...those personal attacks against the marketing director...smh

Millennials have turned the marketing and advertising industry into a social media driven creative safe space where accountability doesn't matter.

For my second agency job, I had to write a memo to my supervisor every single night listing how my work that day made the clients I worked with better off than they were yesterday. Not just financially, but stronger brands overall. It didn't just make the brands stronger. It made me stronger.

It's not personal attacks. I've seen people walk out of job interviews in tears and that still not personal attacks. If you want a job dealing with the public in any way, you need a thick skin and resolve. And given how many people whine on Facebook about how their cashier jobs are so stressful and people are sooo mean, there's not a whole lot of thick skin anymore.

I'm not in the business of coddling people for mediocre results. They're all probably crappy cashiers, and we have a crappy marketing director who is more interested in her own self-interest ventures than the brand Bethesda is paying her to represent.

Acrolas · December 2016

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We've removed a couple of posts that contained some misinformation.

Prove it then.

Medivh50 · December 2016

Mountain33r wrote: »

ZOS CEO talking to Funcom (Failcom) CEO in an interview. ZOS asks what has made them successful and if he could explain it into detail.

Its a rare video that you may not have seen. ZOS is the guy with his head down, taking notes.

ZOS and Funcom

I havent laughed like that in a long time. Thank you! Made my day.

DragonBound · December 2016

BuddyAces wrote: »

Its quite obvious the game is going f2p. All the signs are there. Dont matter to me anymore. Just enjoy the game until it hits the point where you're no longer having fun. ZOS has shown they don't give a *** about a healthy long term game. So if its a few more months or a year till it really goes down hill then so be it.

I have watched many mmorpgs go free to play, eso is really popular I do not see how it is obvious.

Callous2208 · December 2016

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We've removed a couple of posts that contained some misinformation.

Why remove my post? I didn't bash her or misstate facts. She specialized in f2p transitions, it's on her LinkedIn for Christ sake. Am I not allowed to speculate that someone with a particular expertise, might have been hired here to use said skills?

craftycarper73 · December 2016

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We've removed a couple of posts that contained some misinformation.

instead of just removing posts and giving a stupid response such as misinformation, why dont zos give us the information and facts then?

crates are a full of junk rip off.

Korah_Eaglecry · December 2016

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We've removed a couple of posts that contained some misinformation.

So we're silencing people now when they share their opinions? Now we know someones hitting a nerve.

Elijah_Crow · December 2016

I'm a little suspicious of the contents of the removed posts.

If the post contained speculation of a free to play transition because an employee's linkedin says they specialize in this type of work, I think it's perfectly valid.

Heavy handed moderation for this kind of thing actually makes the situation worse.

As for a free to play transition, that would be the end of my spending money with ZOS. I don't care if the game costs $10 for ever, but there needs to be a barrier to entry. Just look at free to play communities without this barrier. They are toxic and riddled with hackers as there is no consequence to being banned. ZOS is challenged to police the game as is, allowing anyone in without an entry fee would ruin the existing game and community.

Callous2208 · December 2016

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I'm a little suspicious of the contents of the removed posts.

If the post contained speculation of a free to play transition because an employee's linkedin says they specialize in this type of work, I think it's perfectly valid.

Heavy handed moderation for this kind of thing actually makes the situation worse.

As for a free to play transition, that would be the end of my spending money with ZOS. I don't care if the game costs $10 for ever, but there needs to be a barrier to entry. Just look at free to play communities without this barrier. They are toxic and riddled with hackers as there is no consequence to being banned. ZOS is challenged to police the game as is, allowing anyone in without an entry fee would ruin the existing game and community.

Agreed. And admittedly, I have been overly critical and perhaps even out of line when speaking of this person before. The post that was removed however stated nothing as concrete fact. Only that I was aware this individual specialized in that particular field, and my personal fear was that ZoS had hired them to utilize those skills with ESO. I didn't even name said individual for once.

Korah_Eaglecry · December 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

Mx13 wrote: »

Also...those personal attacks against the marketing director...smh

Millennials have turned the marketing and advertising industry into a social media driven creative safe space where accountability doesn't matter.

For my second agency job, I had to write a memo to my supervisor every single night listing how my work that day made the clients I worked with better off than they were yesterday. Not just financially, but stronger brands overall. It didn't just make the brands stronger. It made me stronger.

It's not personal attacks. I've seen people walk out of job interviews in tears and that still not personal attacks. If you want a job dealing with the public in any way, you need a thick skin and resolve. And given how many people whine on Facebook about how their cashier jobs are so stressful and people are sooo mean, there's not a whole lot of thick skin anymore.

I'm not in the business of coddling people for mediocre results. They're all probably crappy cashiers, and we have a crappy marketing director who is more interested in her own self-interest ventures than the brand Bethesda is paying her to represent.

I mean youre totally right. BRING BACK EUGENICS ALSO!

Ethromelb14_ESO · December 2016

Mountain33r wrote: »

ZOS CEO talking to Funcom (Failcom) CEO in an interview. ZOS asks what has made them successful and if he could explain it into detail.

Its a rare video that you may not have seen. ZOS is the guy with his head down, taking notes.

ZOS and Funcom

I swear to God this video made me want to never play another MMO again, nor spend money in ESO. I think it's because I can really picture the Devs getting hoarse throats from laughing their azzes off at us consumers for being foolish enough to buy their content, and then complaining about it again. No more ...

acw37162 · December 2016

Mountain33r wrote: »

ZOS CEO talking to Funcom (Failcom) CEO in an interview. ZOS asks what has made them successful and if he could explain it into detail.

Its a rare video that you may not have seen. ZOS is the guy with his head down, taking notes.

ZOS and Funcom

That was amazing.

I picture something very similar regarding the crown crates.

There is at least two people in the officer watching minute by minute sales updates high fiving collectively laughing their asses off at how stupid we are.

Wouldn't be surprised if the cleaning lady was one of them hell I think she's even getting a Christmas bonus due to the crate sales.

DragonBound · December 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

Mx13 wrote: »

Also...those personal attacks against the marketing director...smh

Millennials have turned the marketing and advertising industry into a social media driven creative safe space where accountability doesn't matter.

For my second agency job, I had to write a memo to my supervisor every single night listing how my work that day made the clients I worked with better off than they were yesterday. Not just financially, but stronger brands overall. It didn't just make the brands stronger. It made me stronger.

It's not personal attacks. I've seen people walk out of job interviews in tears and that still not personal attacks. If you want a job dealing with the public in any way, you need a thick skin and resolve. And given how many people whine on Facebook about how their cashier jobs are so stressful and people are sooo mean, there's not a whole lot of thick skin anymore.

I'm not in the business of coddling people for mediocre results. They're all probably crappy cashiers, and we have a crappy marketing director who is more interested in her own self-interest ventures than the brand Bethesda is paying her to represent.

No it is not that people do not have thick skin its the fact that peoples attitude and ignorance have grown worse over the years, do not blame the cashiers or anyone who works with people, its the adult children who need to grow up that are the real problem.

Stopnaggin · December 2016

Must have been the same person that specializes in microtransaction, hmmmm.
I made a post about heavy handed moderation but alas it was shut down. While it did involve crown crates it wasn't specifically about the crates themselves. But rather an effect that it may or may not have had.

What really scares me is the lack of communication on their end. It would at least calm some of the fears. I'm not even sure the mods are privlaged enough to have the information. Anyone remember when they did podcasts? Actually tried to answer questions?

scorpiodog · December 2016

MadLarkin wrote: »

"That's an...olive branch. Is that what you call it?" -Tony Stark

Allow me to extend one of my own. Crates are here, and apparently they're here to stay. I was as vocal as any of the naysayers. However, since our concerns seemingly carry little weight with the powers that be, let's look to the future. Ideally, the money made from crates could be used to expand ESO in new and exciting ways, with fresh content, refined gameplay mechanics, and quality of life improvements. Unfortunately, several MMO's, once they have integrated a gambling crate system, have thinned out their dev team (and their playerbase) by only keeping enough devs on board to keep filling the crates and perhaps releasing half-hearted content updates from time to time. Those games don't die, but they don't continue to grow and flourish, either. They exist in a sort of purgatory. My understanding of this is that the publishers/bean counters/suits want to line their pockets as much as possible for as long as possible before moving onto the next hunting ground.

With all of that in mind, would it be possible to open up some line of communication between ourselves and ZOS? To make sure ESO still has a bright future? Potentially, this could affect ZOS staff as well, should the powers that be decide that they only need enough devs to keep the crown crates flowing. Are we going to receive any reassurances that these crates are for the good of the game in the long run? I certainly have my doubts, but many of us would be willing to listen if the devs would be willing to actually open up and have a conversation. At the end of the day, we are your customers, and communication with your customers is paramount.

Note: I created a new thread for this because I felt this was different enough from the other crate discussions to warrant it. With that in mind, let's not let this devolve into another discussion about the existence of the crates. Let's make it a discussion about looking toward the future of ESO.

My olive branch is "It's a fun and challenging game for a while." After a while though it's mostly just repeating the same content dozens of times to never get the item you want and then just goofing around with other players in between the grind.

MadLarkin · December 2016

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Must have been the same person that specializes in microtransaction, hmmmm.
I made a post about heavy handed moderation but alas it was shut down. While it did involve crown crates it wasn't specifically about the crates themselves. But rather an effect that it may or may not have had.

What really scares me is the lack of communication on their end. It would at least calm some of the fears. I'm not even sure the mods are privlaged enough to have the information. Anyone remember when they did podcasts? Actually tried to answer questions?

Right? I remember when game devs were a bunch of adults working together in an apartment or someone's house on something they really loved. It's all so corporate now (maybe the most hipster thing I've ever said *shudder*), that employees can't express their personal feelings regarding something as huge as the crown crates, for fear of repercussions. There's very much a sense of condescension coming from the top players in the industry these days. A sort of "we know what's best for our customers, and neither they or the developers can be allowed to disagree with us."

pirate3 · December 2016

MadLarkin wrote: »

Let's make it a discussion about looking toward the future of ESO.

The future of ESO is crates. What kind of crates would you like to have a discussion about?

MadLarkin · December 2016

pirate3 wrote: »

MadLarkin wrote: »

Let's make it a discussion about looking toward the future of ESO.

The future of ESO is crates. What kind of crates would you like to have a discussion about?

This thread is my way of hoping that that is not the case. And I'm holding onto a tiny sliver of hope that the game won't go that path, as many others have before.

pirate3 · December 2016

MadLarkin wrote: »

pirate3 wrote: »

MadLarkin wrote: »

Let's make it a discussion about looking toward the future of ESO.

The future of ESO is crates. What kind of crates would you like to have a discussion about?

This thread is my way of hoping that that is not the case. And I'm holding onto a tiny sliver of hope that the game won't go that path, as many others have before.

Let that sliver go. Every future feature will be predicated on maximizing revenue through crate sales. ZOS will not risk reputational damage by introducing blatant p2w elements, but qol aspects like housing will be fair game. Expect to see unique housing items or furniture crafting styles that can only be acquired via crates. I think you're looking for reassurance, but you already know how this plays out. You simply need to accept it or move on.

Callous2208 · December 2016

pirate3 wrote: »

MadLarkin wrote: »

pirate3 wrote: »

MadLarkin wrote: »

Let's make it a discussion about looking toward the future of ESO.

The future of ESO is crates. What kind of crates would you like to have a discussion about?

This thread is my way of hoping that that is not the case. And I'm holding onto a tiny sliver of hope that the game won't go that path, as many others have before.

Let that sliver go. Every future feature will be predicated on maximizing revenue through crate sales. ZOS will not risk reputational damage by introducing blatant p2w elements, but qol aspects like housing will be fair game. Expect to see unique housing items or furniture crafting styles that can only be acquired via crates. I think you're looking for reassurance, but you already know how this plays out. You simply need to accept it or move on.

Bingo. Well stated.

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2016

IIRC, the post in question was quite disrespectful of that person, and it also stated that community managers would do a better job than she does.
Assuming marketing and community management are interchangeable competences shows for ignorance and leads to obvious misinformation.
The confusion between being a customer and being a boss is quite frequent in here.

Just my 2 cents.

Mountain33r · December 2016

@Medivh50 glad to hear, it is hilarious but also a sad truth in a sense.

I played Age of Conan from launch until about a year and half ago. The video pretty much sums it up when PVE Craig took over the helm. I started ESO beta and played the first few months, then quit for a number of reasons until this year in May. ESO was looking pretty good until these crates came out, really before that though; before the 1T patch. I actually like the 1T patch, I just hope its not for other reasons that are kept from the players.

Anyhow, Funcom with Age of Conan did very similar things that ZOS is doing with ESO which is very scary atm.

Funcom:

1st merges servers because of poor population = 1T possibly? Not exactly the same though....

2nd introduces F2P (less content and patches) = Happened in ESO before 1T

3rd introduces item shop (even less content and patches) = Before 1T

4th introduces P2W items (Content and patches? What are they?) = Next?

*****Also almost none of the money gained from the item shop, went into AoC. It went to developing TSW or Lego. True statement!

- I hope this is not the case for ESO.

The P2W items weren't really that bad until maybe 2014/15: Full characters with full PVP gear/Full Tier gear not that high but a heck of a start straight out the gate.

I really hope ESO does not suffer the same fate as AoC. However, Funcom has managed to keep AoC active for 8/9 years but the last 3 have been miserable compared to when it thrived. Funcom just kept you guessing enough to keep a hold of you while they bled your wallet.

BuddyAces · December 2016

Again, there was no misinformation in that thread. Disagreeing with something is not misinformation. Disrespectful? So because he wasn't sucking up to her the whole thread needed to disappear? Again, he took one minuscule little jab at the lady in question. If she can't handle someone giving her even a teeny bit of crap over the internet (arguably for good reasons) about what she has done then maybe she shouldn't have the job??

edit
BTW, I should mention that other than what I've read about her on these forums I don't know a single thing about her She's part of the team that was hired to do a job and she's going to do her job. I have no ill feelings towards her.

Callous2208 · December 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

IIRC, the post in question was quite disrespectful of that person, and it also stated that community managers would do a better job than she does.
Assuming marketing and community management are interchangeable competences shows for ignorance and leads to obvious misinformation.
The confusion between being a customer and being a boss is quite frequent in here.

Just my 2 cents.

Obviously people know that the two jobs are not interchangeable. But what's wrong with someone praising a component ZOS employee and wishing they were the one to be running things? Doubting someone's intentions and abilities and speculating on what they were hired for based on their qualifications isn't disrespectful. It is what it is. If I get hired at a truck plant tomorrow and my history of work is deeply rooted in moving organizations and jobs to Russia, people have a right to be concerned when I start giving Putin tours of the facility.

Edited: First line was uncalled for.