Why do I get punished to play broken-boring-buggy PVP to gain basic skills (Vigor)?
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Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Really? Takes like an hour or less to unlock rank 3 Assault, at which point you gain access to Vigor. It's literally one of the easiest things in the game to unlock. I'm mean you get to Assault rank 2.5 JUST FROM DOING THE CYRO INTRO QUESTS IN WHICH THERE'S NO PVP.
(ALL CAPS for emphasis, not volume.)1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why are you complaining about champion points when there's a no-CP campaign? Is it just for the sake of moaning?2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In the time it took you to make this post you could have almost unlocked vigor.
@Kneighbors should listen to this guy. It does not matter what games you played before it is clear you have not spent much time in this games PvP, especially since one would know they made it much easier/faster to gain the AvA skills during this past year.
Since it is clear you have not spent much time in this games PvP it would make sense your build is probably off and execution of it is probably off. A good chance gearing is not PvP minded, one cannot come in with their PvE gear and expect to survive.
Additionally, the AvA skills are probably put into the AvA lines for a reason. They are very good and Zos probably decided to put them in this area due to how good they are. If one wants to heal or tank trials they much PvP to gain WH. Any stam needs Vigor for the same purpose, and more.
Last, if you are going to quit, just quit. We really do not need to hear about it and your reason is not something many sympathize with since we have done the grind many times.1 -
Milvan✭✭✭✭✭
✭You guys make my day! hahaha.“Kings of the land and the sky we are; proud gryphons.” Stalker stands, the epitome of pride. Naked and muscular, his wings widen and his feet dig in as if he alone holds down the earth and supports the heavens, keeping the two ever separate.”
Gryphons guild - @Milvan,0 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If you think PvP is broken in ESO, you are right on spot. On the other hand, being in an populated campaign will bring you vigor in no time. You can't have the steak if you can't handle your veggies, right? Well, if you rolled a Bosmer, than that could be a problem, I guess...0 -
KingYogi415✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"Wahhh why do i have to earn stuff to be effective. I like fps games. Wahhh" - OP5 -
SaRuZ✭✭✭✭✭I unlocked vigor yesterday. I like PvE & PvP. You bought the game right? Why only play half the content? Both are exciting as ***. My only complaint is IC. Can we get some better/updated gear not only from the vendors(loving my 5pc Black Rose inpen) but also the vaults? I pretty much had all End, Agility and Will gear from daily undaunted which I found useless. Why would I farm for the vaults to get the same thing now? Lol1
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FoolishHuman✭✭✭✭✭Uh oh, you opened pandoras box by mentioning vigor! People are very passionate about that skill.2 -
moonio✭✭✭✭Yes PVP is very broken at the moment
At the moment broken movement speed is keeping me out of Cyrodiil and I LOVE Cyrodiil but when your mount is constantly running then stopping then slow moving then running for a bit.. its like.. I cant be bothered anymore.
Then there are the players who cannot die, the proc sets the zergs etc etc
I mean a zerg can be ok if you actually get to fight someone but they are usually just trampled over by the 300 people spamming skills and all you can do is use repentance if you are lucky.
PVP used to be fun when it was balanced, but I know that it can sometimes take just one player doing something differently to introduce imbalance to PVP and it can be impossible to counter that especially when lots more people copy them.
However I had a fantastic time fighting reds the other day, there seemed to be some sort of code of honor in action because they all fought fairly and with skill (maybe they were actually blues lol)
I think we do need a code of honor for PVP to be honest, maybe displayed at each factions gates, and we should not be able to enter battle without swearing to uphold it..
Just a poor healer from Glenumbra..0 -
wazzz56✭✭✭✭✭runningtings wrote: »I stopped reading at "professionally".
^ this....pretty much..........GM Tig Ole Critties ps5 NA small scale PvP guild
"After a hard week of farming, or a long night of being nagged by your wife, there is nothing better than going out for a bit of a fish."2 -
Integral1900✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Because Wrobel cannot fathom the seperation of PVP and PVE.
This....is the issue and also he solution to most of PvP as well as stopping PvE nerfing
The sooner ZOS gets it through their heads that pve and pvp may as well be two separate games the better0 -
Kneighbors✭✭✭✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »Really? Takes like an hour or less to unlock rank 3 Assault, at which point you gain access to Vigor. It's literally one of the easiest things in the game to unlock. I'm mean you get to Assault rank 2.5 JUST FROM DOING THE CYRO INTRO QUESTS IN WHICH THERE'S NO PVP.
(ALL CAPS for emphasis, not volume.)
Nice reply showing average knowledge on the topic of many repliers here. Like those who say "it takes only 2 hrs to pump all skills up to caltrops".
runningtings wrote: »I stopped reading at "professionally".
Yeah, this is pretty sad man but its a true thing. With the amount of time you invest in this buggy minority pvp "competition" you can go pro in a game that will actually earn you money and give you much more satisfaction. While i'm not looking for "competition" in a game like ESO but for pure PvE fun which is once again proven to be good. Run a statistics check and you will see that 90%+ of people buy this game for PvE. It's not good for PvP and I can't blame it for that, because the way I see they weren't even trying to make it into enjoyable or competetive PvP. All I say is give me some other options to gain basic skills bount to PvP campaign.1 -
wazzz56✭✭✭✭✭Kneighbors wrote: »Peekachu99 wrote: »Really? Takes like an hour or less to unlock rank 3 Assault, at which point you gain access to Vigor. It's literally one of the easiest things in the game to unlock. I'm mean you get to Assault rank 2.5 JUST FROM DOING THE CYRO INTRO QUESTS IN WHICH THERE'S NO PVP.
(ALL CAPS for emphasis, not volume.)
Nice reply showing average knowledge on the topic of many repliers here. Like those who say "it takes only 2 hrs to pump all skills up to caltrops".runningtings wrote: »I stopped reading at "professionally".
Yeah, this is pretty sad man but its a true thing. With the amount of time you invest in this buggy minority pvp "competition" you can go pro in a game that will actually earn you money and give you much more satisfaction. While i'm not looking for "competition" in a game like ESO but for pure PvE fun which is once again proven to be good. Run a statistics check and you will see that 90%+ of people buy this game for PvE. It's not good for PvP and I can't blame it for that, because the way I see they weren't even trying to make it into enjoyable or competetive PvP. All I say is give me some other options to gain basic skills bount to PvP campaign.
You need , I believe, 90k AP for Vigor....that can easily be attained quickly. You speak as if you have a vast knowledge, speaking down on other knowledge on the topic when you obviously are a newer player (your 90 sky shards are showing) who have no recollection of when it was actually hard to get vigor. It was, at a time , as much of a grind to get vigor as it was to level up undaunted.
You also assume that what you find "satisfying" is what others will as well. I believe the phrase goes "to each their own"....
PS If you can't get enough AP, you will be fine without vigor..a good healer will more than compensate...GM Tig Ole Critties ps5 NA small scale PvP guild
"After a hard week of farming, or a long night of being nagged by your wife, there is nothing better than going out for a bit of a fish."2 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me purchase undaunted rank too then, or vma weapons for that matter. I dont want to pve unnecessary much to pvp.
PC EU
PvP only4 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me purchase undaunted rank too then, or vma weapons for that matter. I dont want to pve unnecessary much to pvp.
I farmed dungeons all week to unlock Undaunted Mettle. Honestly, that 6% to all my stats has made such a huge difference in PVP. Want to know the hilarious thing? I don't even use Vigor in PVE.
Though Vigor does come in handy when you have a less than capable healer in the tougher dungeons (CoS, ICP, etc).3 -
wazzz56✭✭✭✭✭Let me purchase undaunted rank too then, or vma weapons for that matter. I dont want to pve unnecessary much to pvp.
I farmed dungeons all week to unlock Undaunted Mettle. Honestly, that 6% to all my stats has made such a huge difference in PVP. Want to know the hilarious thing? I don't even use Vigor in PVE.
Though Vigor does come in handy when you have a less than capable healer in the tougher dungeons (CoS, ICP, etc).
@Alucardo agreed......blew a pug healer's mind over the weekend that I did not have vigor on bar when I was tanking. Told him I trusted him to heal me, and if he needed it I would slot it..GM Tig Ole Critties ps5 NA small scale PvP guild
"After a hard week of farming, or a long night of being nagged by your wife, there is nothing better than going out for a bit of a fish."0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is why skill should be balanced and unlocked in any order you wish.
Stamina heals are pretty much a requirement.
Its kind of like locking taunt away until you complete VMA.
Then wondering why new players arent taunting anything.
Anything that can be exploited will be exploited3 -
Every class comes with at least one self heal that you can use until you unlock vigor and it's actually really easy to unlock just go to a busy campaign get defensive ticks and repair walls and kill a delve boss if you wanna speed up the process + quests you get for capturing keeps scout reports bounty quests it's really very easy you should be able to get it in an hour tops0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vigor is not a basic skill, it is part of the assault skill line you earn by joining a campaign in Cyrodiil the first time. This is just like earning a skill from the undaunted skill line or any other. You must do the content for the right to unlock the skill. Why is this so hard to understand that there are exclusive skills locked behind content you must do even if it is not your thing?
Right or wrong this is been part of gaming since day one.Edited by TequilaFire on November 29, 2016 3:46PM4 -
FoolishHuman✭✭✭✭✭NetflixNChiill wrote: »Every class comes with at least one self heal that you can use until you unlock vigor
Stamina nightblades? And please don't say strife until you actually tried it. (and not with a cp 561 character)
For dungeons everything is fine, but a healer is not there when you are questing.1 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I don't know . If it was up to me I wouldn't lock any skills behind PvP unless they could only be used in PvP . You really can get it with money . Just buy wall repair kits and siege repair kits and stay out of the fight . Walls upgrade and need repairs all the time .
I'm no pvp guy but honestly pvpers have to do solo content to get what they want so yeah. Vigor and caltrops aren't that hard to get.
To the OP if your crying you aren't trying.2 -
wazzz56✭✭✭✭✭FoolishHuman wrote: »NetflixNChiill wrote: »Every class comes with at least one self heal that you can use until you unlock vigor
Stamina nightblades? And please don't say strife until you actually tried it. (and not with a cp 561 character)
For dungeons everything is fine, but a healer is not there when you are questing.
Did plenty of questing w/o vigor on a stamblade, because again it actually used to be hard to get Vigor ( also rally heals to fyi) .if you cannot live without it, suck it up, spenda few ours repairing or zerging or whatever you have to do to get it....There will be sets and skills you have to grind for in this game, everyone does it...If you think PVPers do not have to grind their butts off for stuff outside of Cyrodil, you're nuts....
PS I am not a solely PVPer..but This debate is nonsensical to me....GM Tig Ole Critties ps5 NA small scale PvP guild
"After a hard week of farming, or a long night of being nagged by your wife, there is nothing better than going out for a bit of a fish."1 -
Stoopid_Nwah✭✭✭✭
Class specific-killers blade and reapers mark. Non-class specific-draining shot from the bow, rally from 2h, bloodthirst bloodcraze and the ult for dw, absorb magicka for s&b.FoolishHuman wrote: »NetflixNChiill wrote: »Every class comes with at least one self heal that you can use until you unlock vigor
Stamina nightblades? And please don't say strife until you actually tried it. (and not with a cp 561 character)
For dungeons everything is fine, but a healer is not there when you are questing.1 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Outsider wrote: »The fact is, ESO is an MMO. MMOs have both PVP and PVE. Some things are gained though PVP, some through PVE. This has always been and always will be the case.
Secondly, you do not need Vigor (or any other skill) to be viable. You do not need it to be successful. If you want to min/max or perform at the highest level possible, getting access to these skills is a non-issue.
Being viable also means being self sustainable if the healer dies or being able to run VMA. Imo if you can't heal yourself, your build isn't viable.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭TequilaFire wrote: »Vigor is not a basic skill, it is part of the assault skill line you earn by joining a campaign in Cyrodiil the first time. This is just like earning a skill from the undaunted skill line or any other. You must do the content for the right to unlock the skill. Why is this so hard to understand that there are exclusive skills locked behind content you must do even if it is not your thing?
Right or wrong this is been part of gaming since day one.
I get its been in game...the vertical progression side of it.
For me thats the problem.
How can you balance skills...if skills have to be better..because they are in a rank order system ?
Either you have equally viable skills + balance
or you have useless skills and imbalance.
Assuming we actually want balance.....then better skills and skill ranking...have no place.
What should exist is how many of the skills can be unlocked at any time.
New players have to prioritise and make hard choices.
Veteran players would have unlocked many choices and get much greater build diversity and options + stacked passives /rollseyes
This has nothing to do with balance and everything to do with ensuring new players will never have any competitive chance for as long as possible.
Great for AP farmers...not great for the game.Edited by Rune_Relic on November 29, 2016 4:33PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kneighbors wrote: »Thanks for answers, there are some really constructive while some are just making jokes or don't know what they are talking about. Like "get gut" dude who says that there's no problem for cp10 to kill cp561..
But seriously, are there people who enjoy this PVP? Do you feel satisfaction when you kill your opponent? Do you feel frustrated when he kills you? Because after playing real competetive games like FPS or online poker I don't feel it at all. There's no confirmation that you have killed someone when you do, 5 mages casting "eye of the storm" at the same point don't even know who caused the damage (unless you run some extra addons), it's like the developers didn't even try for players to have an enjoying pvp experience. Even the frustration that I feel mostly of "damn I will have to run 5 minutes again now to get there" kind. The biggest frustration for me is that I have to play it to gain access to a good skill tree.
So for those who are into "get gut" - you are wasting your time on minority pvp game, there are no tournaments, there's no teamplay (comparing to games like CS and BF3), it's just a waste of time pvp game. Ofcourse you wanna get gut in it, continue on :-)
And those comparing PvE vs PvP well the game has proved itself in PvE, the PvE is really good and you can see alot of newcomers coming and enjoying it. While in PvP majority of players are maxed out characters, hence the most devoted people who are ready to take any crap ZoS will put them on the plate.
Dude seriously, this isnt bf or cod. There is no comparison to be made. Fps vs mmo. Not even in the same league. The fact you had to tell us you were a.professional gamer isn't going to help you get constructive advice. And as a.professional gamer why would you even mention buying skills?
Now with that being said. Lower tier campaigns are available. Your gear choices are more relevant in pvp. Impenetrable is almost a must, heavy. Go to IC, if you have the dlc, get black rose, farm fungal grotto 2 for vipers and you will be able to compete with the rest of the meta builds. I'm no pvp player or professional gamer, but I had caltrops and vigor in less than a weekend playing casually.
It's not a punisment, pvper have to to all kinds of pve stuff to get what they want as well. It's the way of ESO.1 -
runningtings✭✭✭I gained 50k last night, and i missed the massive 50k defence tick at Ash, boohoo.
So its not ridiculous to suggest that you could earn Vigor in 2 or 3 nights.// DC / EU PC// Garión<< The Black >>0 -
FoolishHuman✭✭✭✭✭FoolishHuman wrote: »NetflixNChiill wrote: »Every class comes with at least one self heal that you can use until you unlock vigor
Stamina nightblades? And please don't say strife until you actually tried it. (and not with a cp 561 character)
For dungeons everything is fine, but a healer is not there when you are questing.
Did plenty of questing w/o vigor on a stamblade, because again it actually used to be hard to get Vigor ( also rally heals to fyi) .if you cannot live without it, suck it up, spenda few ours repairing or zerging or whatever you have to do to get it....There will be sets and skills you have to grind for in this game, everyone does it...If you think PVPers do not have to grind their butts off for stuff outside of Cyrodil, you're nuts....
PS I am not a solely PVPer..but This debate is nonsensical to me....
Before vigor went to rank 5 was before one tamriel. Please don't talk about what you don't know about. Mobs now scale to cp 160 everywhere in the world, if it is too hard you can't go somewhere else and play.
I already have vigor. But when my first character, a stamina nightblade got to about cp 100, she was impossible to play. The only strategy that worked was kill all enemies before they kill you, which won't work when enemies back up over into the next group and you have 6 mobs on you.
So I made a new character, a magicka nightblade and never died. I had to get cp160 on a different character, because quests were impossible for my stamina character. The difference is that big and it shouldn't be. Even in PvP, to get rank 5 on my stamina build took me 4 days of playing, on my magicka build it took me one evening. And the reason was the same; stamina builds without vigor die all the time. There are no stamina heals in the game that don't require you to kill or hit an enemy in melee, which is a bad condition when you are running away at 5% health.
That's why the OP called this a "basic skill", just healing yourself is a basic skill and stamina builds don't have it until vigor.
And frankly I don't care about what PvPers have to get "outside of cyrodiil". This is a MMO, PvE is the main game mode, PvP the niche mode. That aside, having some % more damage or health is an advantage but not a game change like having a healing ability when you had none before.
Also please tell me what benefit does the PvP community have from all those PvE players that are nothing but cannonfodder for the enemy, because they don't care about winning, only about grinding AP? Actually, the best way to get AP is to stand at an area like the alessia bridge and just turn on the meatgrinder for hours, because capturing keeps or getting scrolls sucks for AP.
This entire arrangement doesn't make any sense.2 -
Kneighbors✭✭✭✭✭FoolishHuman wrote: »
Before vigor went to rank 5 was before one tamriel. Please don't talk about what you don't know about. Mobs now scale to cp 160 everywhere in the world, if it is too hard you can't go somewhere else and play.
I already have vigor. But when my first character, a stamina nightblade got to about cp 100, she was impossible to play. The only strategy that worked was kill all enemies before they kill you, which won't work when enemies back up over into the next group and you have 6 mobs on you.
So I made a new character, a magicka nightblade and never died. I had to get cp160 on a different character, because quests were impossible for my stamina character. The difference is that big and it shouldn't be. Even in PvP, to get rank 5 on my stamina build took me 4 days of playing, on my magicka build it took me one evening. And the reason was the same; stamina builds without vigor die all the time. There are no stamina heals in the game that don't require you to kill or hit an enemy in melee, which is a bad condition when you are running away at 5% health.
That's why the OP called this a "basic skill", just healing yourself is a basic skill and stamina builds don't have it until vigor.
And frankly I don't care about what PvPers have to get "outside of cyrodiil". This is a MMO, PvE is the main game mode, PvP the niche mode. That aside, having some % more damage or health is an advantage but not a game change like having a healing ability when you had none before.
Also please tell me what benefit does the PvP community have from all those PvE players that are nothing but cannonfodder for the enemy, because they don't care about winning, only about grinding AP? Actually, the best way to get AP is to stand at an area like the alessia bridge and just turn on the meatgrinder for hours, because capturing keeps or getting scrolls sucks for AP.
This entire arrangement doesn't make any sense.
That's exactly my point. I also have several characters, like DK tank, Templar healer and dps Sorc... All of them doing much better in PvP but the point is they don't even require it. While my stamina NB is just a total looser who can't heal himself and only looking for lame spots to earn AP. For solo vigor is a basic skill for NB stamina build. All other characters get to self healing and thus high sustain before reaching lvl 10. While for NB it's like I said, I feel like it's a punishment to play PvP.Edited by Kneighbors on November 29, 2016 4:58PM1