Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

You mention the sentinel of rekugums set and the master restoration staff, but you have forgotten a few things. First we are the only class giving 10% regain with empowered ward which means if you are a mage or magicka user you really are wasting yourself with a Templar as support.

Also we don't die ... we rez the rest of the group while bird jesus distracts the boss for a moment. Why because that shield though not as strong of the other is super powerful at 15k. Now only that you get 8% increase in health, but using it.

*Special note to our healing ult that also takes care of bad stuff negate magicka.

Is it it unconventional sure, but is any less than the templar class no, but the templar ego is so much stronger so be warned.

*For veteran 4 man content the split at this moment goes like this out ever 10 healer you see 5 Templars 4 sorcs and 1 nightblade... I know you exist dk healers but I seen 2 of you in 12 months (fight harder for your existence).

I did not forget about them, I simply was not taking about magic, just stam regen, which is 95% of the reason people prefer templars. The magic regen you speak of is nothing. Most magic dps are only running with like 800 to 1k regen. They will not really notice the extra regen. The best ways to give magic back to the group, those being eledrain, spirit syphon and, my favorite, mystic orbs, are available to everyone and every healer needs to be running them or at least have them available for use.

The major mending that some people have mentioned, while nice, is simply not needed. With cp and a properly build toon, with the sets I have mentioned, the heals will be big enough. Especially if you use the matriarch or the bird Jesus as you put it. Without major mending, my mutagen hits for around 3k crits on my sorc. The matriarch hits for around 13k non crits, more then enough.

Enough for normal dungeons but have u ever tried healing a tank with 40k health through a vet raid with a sorc healer??? You can heal with a sorc the same way a fiat 500 can compete in a race against a ferrari. You CAN but lets face it=> sorcs weren't designed as healers

Yes. I'm a healer sorc with a resto staff. the key is to time my Ult correctly (Life giver), This also slightly defense buffs my team. Besides that I use the healing shield bubble move that smart acts and hits the player with least health since it's most times hard to aim when everyone's scattered. I also use combat prayer to give everyone a damage buff of 8% now and then. if stacked and killing a boss.

I am yet to find a monster helm to pair up with. I was fascinated by chokethorn but it's slightly unreliable and heals most times when everyones at full health.
The sentinels radius is horrible, no one's going to stand inside a small green circle for a 5% stam buff over an hour.
Troll king isn't useful if my heals don't leave my targets below 60%, and I feel stupid healing someone for like 1 % of their life. I'm a bit uncomfy using low power spells just to activate this

I really wish Healing masks were less conditional and more direct with healing granted chokethorn is my best example that does this.

My only wish is for a good mask and maybe atleast 1 move in resto that grants back stamina aoe or even line of sight.


Cp561 groups preffer the shard move however and I have no solution for that.

Short answer; no
Long answer; probably results in a no as well

Just on the stamina issue, I have wondered if a non templar healer could run the Rkugamz set + Master Resto instead of shards. Between those two gear sets/items the potential is there to provide ~800 stam per second to all players inside the general area of healing springs (or the equivalent of 1.6k stam regen).

EDIT: just read the post above - couldn't a stam regen kit as described be considered the stamina equivalent of worm cult (without having to gimp so severely with the hircine set)?

BossXV wrote: »

Like the question above, I have a friend rocking a wizard, trying to figure out what he wants his back bar to be. So 2 questions, can he use a restoration staff and be a great healer,

and what would you rec emend for a wizard back bar

thanks

On my templar healer i primarily use resto skills for heals. Its the utility from repentence/shards to return resources that make templar the best choice. I hhonestly dont even use breathe of life. Just stack springs and key prayer up. Healing ward for emergency in 4 mans.

redspecter23 wrote: »

Can a sorc heal as well as a Templar? It's comparable. However, there is very little that can replace the functionality of repentance and shards. A sorc can heal all day long, possibly even with more sustain than a templar and that part is fine, but when the time comes to help with party resources, they will be lacking. It's up to you whether your current group composition can work without that utility.

a templar can easily sustain with a restro staff and have more power then any other class. also they can build for bol spam for over 30s period of times then swap to restro staff and spam heal springs while magicka builds back up very fast and still ahve as much if not more power then other classes for healing.

I read the forums daily n "wizard" still makes me lol!

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Templers will run out of magic first and wont beable to heal anyone, Sorcerers through the use of their wards are able to keep themselves alive without the need of a healer, A healer who can keep themselves alive because they have powerful wards and don't run out of magicka is much better then someone who doesn't have wards and need to spam healing spells to keep their health up.

My conclusion only weaker groups need a Templer Healer, stronger groups who don't lose 9/10ths of their health every 5 seconds don't and would do better with a sorcerer healing them.

Hmm, what makes you think that templar healers dont have sustain? I dont run out of magicka even with ~1,5k recovery and you can easily get even more than that. There's also Channeled Focus, which gives a decent regen boost. Resto staff abilities are cheap for everyone, so sorc's cost reduction doesnt matter that much. And sorc's "breath of life" costs more than templar's iirc, not to mention that its less reliable - even with shields, the twilight would easily die in vet trials.
Also its worth mentioning that "strong ward" is available for any magicka class these days. Its called "Harness Magicka".

Hello

Thx for calling me here I haven't seen this topic before I apologies for the long reply

Loc2262 wrote: »

Opinions differ, but in my opinion, in a trinity group setup, it's the healer's task to also give stamina and magicka resources back to the tank and DDs, and buff them and debuff the bosses. Especially the DDs would otherwise have to sacrifice a good deal of damage to improve sustain.
And that means a templar is the best overall class. They can use a resto staff (springs, mutagen, combat), destro staff (elemental drain), have a great "oh sh*t" heal (Breath of Life) and HoT improvement (Extended Ritual), they give back stamina (shards, repentance) and magicka (orbs).

For vet 4 man content (non-DLC dungeons, DLC dungeons and vDSA), master resto staff is enough to sustain your DD's stamina (your tank shouldn't have ressources issues except he is bad/new that's why I don't mention him here). If you run with people who have stamina issues in 4 man content (only time it happened to me were cause they're new to the game or playing with a new char/builds) and you're not a templar healer you can slot Rkugamz to help them more. It's what we call adaptability. Adapting your gear/skill to the rest of your team.

For vet trials you'll have to optimise your TEAM. Not only you, not only the tank, you'll have to optimise everyone as a TEAM. Any templar of your raid team can slot repentance (DDs, tank, or second healer, in my team it's DDs job to use repentance for example). Any magicka templar DDs can use shards in his build without losing DPS (or a second healer can slot that too). Stamina DDs won't have any problem if your team is "well-built". No matter the healer.

Patouf wrote: »

Not really, because no major mending and no utility skill like shard, repent, breath of life and light power. Moreover, Sorc needs pet in each bar and there is a lot of skills to cast as a healer : spirit siph', elemental drain, orbs, healing spring, combat prayer, etc...

Sorc's healer can play without matriarch (using Healing Ward instead of it) specially if they're not confident in keeping him alive or whatever. For 4 man content, you won't need to run both siphon spirit and Elemantal drain. In vet trial one healer will run elemental drain and the other one will run siphon spirit. No utility skills ? Sure SORCERERS don't have all the utility skills you listed cause they're TEMPLAR skills... Sorcs have access to other ability skills. Lots of CC, Minor Intellect for your team, Negate, Matriarch's Heal (quickier than BoL's one and can be more powerful (which isn't that useful cause of overhealing I admit it )), ... You can't expect sorcs to have access to the same utility skills than templar's one and vice versa. Why would you play one class instead of another if you had access to same support/utility skills ?

JKith wrote: »

1: Rez players at full stats: Yes, it's not ideal to most people, but Healers do have to rez sometimes and it's way better to have one come back with full stats.

In 4 man content, they shouldn't die. In trials healer don't rez. In harder 4 man content, deaths can happen, but I never had any problem rezzing someone on my non-templar healers if i'm not too busy to do so, if i'm too busy to do it, no matter the classes i'm healing with, someone else must do it. If you prefer healing on your templar cause you can rez faster, you're doing something wrong. Except if you're PvPing. For PvP it matters.

2: Stamina on demand: I give the Tank and stamina DPS shards every 6-10sec when I heal (part of my rotation), and giving them the opportunity to gain resources.... in demanding content is really really really helpful.

Already explained it earlier, won't repeat myself

3: Cleansing on demand: For fights that require cleansing/purify (Cradle of Shadows comes to mind), it's such a huge help... HUGE!

Purge is accessible to every classes. BTW I do vCradle of Shadow HM without purge with stamina DDs, just to tell it's doable, but I admit Purge is a good help for some content (and accessible to every classes).

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Assuming you mean a Sorc. Sorcs can heal pretty good. All 4 classes can. A twilight morph can heal 2 people with solid heals similar to BoL, as long as the twilight has not died. The main drawback is the sorc cannot provide sizable stamina to the tank and stam dps which is the main reason the Templar is desired with more challenging content.

Your tank shouldn't need stamina, Master resto staff is enough to keep your stamina tank, if he is a good one. You'll have to slot Rkugamz to help new tanks (that are learning how to manage their ressources, I noticed that sometimes new tanks think that permablocking is the way to go for tanking which is untrue).

Managing the matriarch's life and placement is one of the key thing you need to learn how to do if you want to play with the healing pet.

Xoelarasizerer wrote: »

For random normal dungeons, it can work.

But if you wanna roll on Veteran dungeons or Trials, you'll be more accepted if you can bring everything with you to the table as a healer. And simply put, the Templar Healer can bring everything. The Sorcerer Healer can bring some things, usually enough for normal. But probably not enough for Veteran.

Most vet dungeons are easy. Lots of sorc healer are already healing these contents without problems. For vet trials it's harder, but still doable. Can people stop spreading false rumors out there ? OFC any healer can heal normal dungeon cause you don't need a healer in there. They're soloable and for new player they're still easy to do (with or without a good healer no matter the class).

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Not to mention 25% less healing becausw sorcs lack rune fokus or extended rirual and the passives it comes with....

25% less healing when we're already overhealing anyways. Sure, what a lost.

xaraan wrote: »

Players used to love Templar because Breath of Life was like an easy heal for standing in red, but Sorc actually has the pet heal which is arguably better now that Templar's breath has been nerfed.

Matriarch's Heal is quickier too than BoL. Both are great healing abilities. Advantages of the matriarch's heal is its power and quickness, it's disadvantage is that you'll need to learn how to keep your pet alive.

Now however, the biggest thing that gives templar the edge isn't healing health, but stamina with shards and repentance. With the nerfs to how stam regen/blocking is handled and how many dd's are stam now it's hard to replace that and you can notice a huge difference not having a templar in a group if you are used to having access to those abilities.

I explained why this isn't an issue specially in endgame with OPTIMISED TEAM.

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

On my templar healer Ive had 35k bol crits against low health tanks.... I really doubt pet heals can beat that.....

Why your tank was low in health ? You let him go down to test something ? Majority of endgame tanks are at around 30k, so yeah it's cool you can heal them full even if they are at 1HP, but what bothers me is why would you let your tank go so low in HP ? And on these tanks no matter if your heals are 30k or 35k they won't see the difference anyways. Same goes for your DD. As soon as we can keep them alive, they don't care you're overhealing more than my cat or my dog.

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Substain= yeahsssno( rune focus lacking), 25% less heals unless you do a heavy attack after every 1.5 seks, no healing ultimate, no shards, no repentance, also with rune focus lacking a sorc is very vounerable unless he keeps shielding( and in higher content there a no time for that as a healer),

You trully lack some knowledge about the sorcerer class. If you need/want to have more resistance as a sorc via major/major resolve you too have access to it. Let me learn you something : Templar isn't the only class that has access to major ward/resolve. Every classes have access to that.

Templar : Rune Focus
Sorcerer : Boundless Storm
Nightblade : Any Shadow ability (I personnally use refresing path)
Dragonknight : Spiked Armor and its morphs

Teamplar Healing ultimate. Please don't tell me you're using this in PvE. Please... Please... Or tell me you were talking about PvP, please. I need to reassured. BTW lack of knowledge, sorc have access to a healing ultimate (absorption field). It doesn't matter cause for endgame purposes we'll usually use Aggressive Warhorn

Why does someone want to abuse a awesome range dps class as a healer anyway????

Hem... Cause they like the gameplay of a sorcerer healer maybe... Just a guess though. Strange question. Why someone will play a templar healer ? Cause they like it...

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Enough for normal dungeons but have u ever tried healing a tank with 40k health through a vet raid with a sorc healer??? You can heal with a sorc the same way a fiat 500 can compete in a race against a ferrari.

Normal dungeons... Dude, you know normal dungeons are easy as hell, so yeah ofc sorc healer can heal through them... Even my dog can heal through them Like I said I tend to think you lack some knowledge about sorcerer healers. Have you played one ? In what conditions ? Can we have your build/gear ? Maybe we can help you improve your sorc healer.

You CAN but lets face it=> sorcs weren't designed as healers

Let's take a look at all the support/abilities sorcs have that make me think you're wrong on this :
Matriarch : Healing pet, burst heal, quick one
Negate : The one who heals (i don't know the english name srry), HoT, stun, remove red circles (I'm talking about PvE here)
Empowered Ward : To disguise your self as a tank and for Minor Intellect buff (your magicka DDs and tank will appreciate that)
Liquid Lightning : To give synergy to your team (for helping a little in sustainability and for Alkosh's wearers).

If they weren't designed as healers nowadays why devs give us access to all these abilities ?

Most of the best support/heal skills of the game are weapons/undaunted/guild/PvP skills. I won't mention it, if you play a healer you should know it. And if you don't, why are you talking about things you know nothing about ?

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Can you heal dungeons and normal mode trials with a sorc? Yes, you can (preferably with magicka-based dds in group).

Even Vet Trials.

But templar provides more group utility, so its much more efficient.

Wrong, templar provide DIFFERENT group utility than non-templar healer.

Gargath wrote: »

With 1T sets we can easily have build with 40k health (without any attributes in health) and 24k stamina - how can you state it's a bad tank? For me it's a good tank.

I won't tell he's a bad tank. But In PVE you don't need 40k HP to tank all the content of the game. So IMO it looks like a waste of ressources. If the tank can do his job (providing buffs, debuffing bosses resistance, providing ulti, managing his ressources, taking damages and taunting) and has 40k I won't call him a bad tank. But if he has 40k HP cause he focused too much on it forgetting the rest of his job (buffing team, debuffing bosses, ulti gen, ...) he's doing something wrong. You don't need 40k HP in PvE, all you need is ~30k, if you have more it's a waste of ressources. But if you have more and can do your job in vet trial, your group won't care.

Sentinel barely procs in 4-man content and Master's staff only restores 258 stamina on the first tick of healing springs, which isnt even comparable to templar skills.

Clearly not cause repentance needs corpses to be useful and can be used by any of the templar of your team and shards give stamina back to only ONE person. While resto staff gives stamina back to 6 people and doesn't requires corpses to give stamina back and won't be used by a DDs or a tank (they'll lose too much for doing it ^^). I didn't have any problem with Rkugamz proc, but I only use it in vDSA so maybe it procs less in easier dungeons ?

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Also, there's a high risk of being rejected in groups and healing pugs will probably be more difficult.

Being rejected from a PUG... So sad.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

First off, why lol? Show me a time a tank needs more then 30k health in PvE.

Maybe beginners at tanking needs that for harder content ? I'm not sure but that's the only thing that came to my mind

I also said in the comment you mentioned that those items are not replacements for shards or repentance, they are just a way to supplement stam for non temps.

This, really. These sets, gear are just ways to sustain the stamina of your team if/when they need it and if you want to on your non-templar healers.

Speaking of stamina returns... Why would you spam healing springs every second when in raids you need to apply combat prayer/aether/ele/siphon/throw magicka bubbles?

You shouldn't, and a good healer no matter the class won't spam healing springs forgetting his other skills (the one you mentioned).

I mean, dwemer spider thingy and master's staff are nice to have, but theyre still inferior to templar abilities.

They're different, we all know the advantage of shards and repentance over master resto/rkugamz, I listed earlier the advantage of master resto/rkugamz towards shars/repentance.

I tested Sentinel set in raid the other day, and according to teammates it gave them around ~150-ish stamina per second. Master's staff gives roughly the same (considering that you will be moving/casting other spells/etc) And you cant really use Sentinel and master's staff at once (because trial meta requires 2 5 pc sets).

I explained how sustainability works in vet trial earlier in this post (at the beginning I think) with a non-templar healer in your team. Your group won't only rely on master/rkugamz (i don't recommend Rkugamz for vtrials, except maybe if your group is full of stamina player and you can give up worm cult, but it never happened to me so I can't tell for sure ), but Master resto staff is a good way to help stamina sustainbaility of your TEAM as a non-templar healer in combination of all the other sustain abilities your team will use (we're still talking about vet trials purposes here). Key word here is working as a team.

okay, so you say "30-35k on imperial char with some of BiS trial setups (without any points in health)", on my tank, who is a redguard, in Tavas+dragon+BS, with 7 gold tri stat glyphs on the armor and all my attributes into stam, which i have 30k of(17k magic if you were wondering), i only have 27k health, 27000*.12=3240, 3240+27000= 30240. 30k health on an imperial with the same armor i have on right now. exactly the amount i said. if i had alkosh instead of dragon, it would be less. i might have to move some attributes around then.

It doesn't matter, even if the tank has 40/50k HP. A good healer won't let him down to the point he'll need a 35k flash heal, to the point he'll use the full potential of a 35k flash heal. There are no situations in PvE where you'll see a difference in using a 30k flash heal or a 35k one. But I tend to agree with you, no tank NEED more than 30k HP for PvEing (i'm not good at PvPing so I can't tell ah ah). Only exceptions are maybe beginners and DK tank who specialises in big team shields (I never done vet trial with one so I can't tell if it's that usefull).

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Templers will run out of magic first and wont beable to heal anyone

No healers should run out of magicka. They have tools at their disposal to manage their ressources :
Templar : Rune Focus / Heavy Resto Staff Attacks
Sorcerer : Dark Conversion (not sure of the name ) / Heavy Resto Staff Attacks
Nightblade : Sphoning Attacks / Heavy resto staff attacks
Dragon Knight : Using an ulti / Heavy resto staff attacks
And OFC all the tools you'll use to sustain magicka DDs/tank (siphon spirit/elemental drain/orbs).
If a healer runs out of magicka (with some rare exceptions where you need to be OOM) he is doing something wrong and must rethink his build/gameplay.

Sorcerers through the use of their wards are able to keep themselves alive without the need of a healer, A healer who can keep themselves alive because they have powerful wards and don't run out of magicka is much better then someone who doesn't have wards and need to spam healing spells to keep their health up.

Every healer should be able to keep himself alive. You mentioned your wards, I need to mention that it'll protect yourself, your pet (who heals) and give minor intellect to your teammates.

My conclusion only weaker groups need a Templer Healer, stronger groups who don't lose 9/10ths of their health every 5 seconds don't and would do better with a sorcerer healing them.

Sadly I have seen this argument so much time. "Templar are better cause they can carry bad PUG". I don't think that it's true cause :
No matter the class, a good healer can carry bad PUG on vet dungeon (who will PU for vet trials ?^^) and I don't think being able to play with mediocre people makes you better than someone else (same goes for classes).

cpuScientist wrote: »

No matter what anyone says Templar is king healer. They can Jesus Beam and xome out with good dps, drop Nova's for mitigation, wear 2 five piece sets without worrying about management lol.

If you want to specialise yourself in dishing max dmg while healing (what makes me think you want to do that is that you mentioned jesus beam), templar isn't the "master" class for that. Nightblade are better in doing that. And have the damage mitigation you're looking for (veil of blade), and can wear 2 five pieces sets without worrying about management (thx to master resto staff) and they won't have to slots 2 skills to help sustain the stamina management of your team. I can't tell if sorcerer healer is as good as nightblade at dishing our damages (cause my sorc healer's speciality is CCing) but maybe you can try it too (liquid lightning, frags, crushing shock/force pulse), it'll work for vet dungeons, vDSA but not sure for trials (cause like said my sorc healer is specialised in CCing more than damaging).

But for Dungeons vet or otherwise who gives a flying duck. For trials no matter how you "feel" it's a handicap. 100% doable just not optimal. And optimal is always best. But by no means is it a NEED.

Optimal isn't just about one person of the group. An optimal team for vet trial is a team that is well-synergised as a team, as a group, group playing, that is optimised as a group.

Good post Shaiba, though you quote me and mention with an optimized team you don't have to worry about not having Templar repentance or shards. I don't usually give advice based on someone getting to decide what the other three people (or more if trial) will have to play. So frankly, I think the point stands - if you are making a healer that will possibly mix it up with a variety of groups (especially pugs) it will be hard to make up for not having repentance and shards. It also allows for easier recovery in certain situations when things get messed up in a run. It's kind of like saying you can tank on any class (which you can, and I do) but not recognizing the strengths of a DK for tanking over the other classes.

Personally, I would have little problem running with a good sorc healer and the dps we run with would be ok as well, even though they are stam builds. But, having those templar skills does give you more breathing room and make their jobs easier, which after the basic jobs of healing (or tanking in case of a tank) is the job of those two classes - to help the dps do their jobs as efficiently as possible.