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Draughr Hulk and Essence Thief BiS for Imperial Stam DPS?
amasuriel
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So I was crunching some number on the new sets, and I think Draughr Hulk and Essence Thief may be BiS for Imperial Stam DPS (any class more or less).
Here is the math.
Each Stamina is worth 10.46 weapon damage in terms of DPS
Imperials get +10% stamina, which means a normal set stam bonus is 1063.7 instead of 976, the Draughr Hulk 5 piece bonus is 2750 instead of 2500.
So 5 piece Draughr Hulk is effectively 568 weapon damage (5942 stam total / 10.46). This makes it the best non-conditional damage boost.
Hundings is effectively 401 Weapon damage (1064 Stam (102 effective weapon damage) + 299 weapon damage). It also gives 6.3% crit chance of course.
Automaton is 231 effective weapon damage all the time (129 + 1064 stam), plus 400 for physical damage. This is better than Draughr by only 63 effective weapon damage, and probably comes out behind for most classes that include non physical (poison etc) in their rotation.
Essence Thief is effectively 333 weapon damage (1064 Stam (102 effective weapon damage) x2, 129 weapon damage), plus the proc. If you assume that you light attack 1 time per second, it procs about every 7 seconds. It lasts for 10 seconds, so is active ~60% of the time, so you can probably calculate it as ~7% overall damage increase (12% increase 60% of the time). Of course also has a nice little health and stam recovery.
Draugr and Automaton have the best non-proc damage at effectively 799 overall and 1199 for physical.
If you include the proc though, and assume base weapon damage is only 1200 Draughr + Essence Theif is effectively 1048 with no conditions (901 effective weapon damage + 1200 base * 7%), and this doesn't take into effect better weapons (so more base weapon damage), Major Brutality, or any other buffs, all of which Essence Thief stacks on since it's just a bonus to damage done.
Draugr + Hundings is pretty good too, with 1069 unconditional effective damage increase + some extra crit, also crafted, so 500 runs of Direfrost or White Gold Tower for that sharpened weapon
, but it lacks the stam and health recovery and is otherwise pretty much the same as essence thief.
So seems to be, unless the essence thief proc is broken, or the damage multiplier is not what I expect, that is better than pretty much anything else
Comments before I start farming Essence Thief
? Are there soft caps on the bonus damage from Stamina? If so this become terrible.
Here is the math.
Each Stamina is worth 10.46 weapon damage in terms of DPS
Imperials get +10% stamina, which means a normal set stam bonus is 1063.7 instead of 976, the Draughr Hulk 5 piece bonus is 2750 instead of 2500.
So 5 piece Draughr Hulk is effectively 568 weapon damage (5942 stam total / 10.46). This makes it the best non-conditional damage boost.
Hundings is effectively 401 Weapon damage (1064 Stam (102 effective weapon damage) + 299 weapon damage). It also gives 6.3% crit chance of course.
Automaton is 231 effective weapon damage all the time (129 + 1064 stam), plus 400 for physical damage. This is better than Draughr by only 63 effective weapon damage, and probably comes out behind for most classes that include non physical (poison etc) in their rotation.
Essence Thief is effectively 333 weapon damage (1064 Stam (102 effective weapon damage) x2, 129 weapon damage), plus the proc. If you assume that you light attack 1 time per second, it procs about every 7 seconds. It lasts for 10 seconds, so is active ~60% of the time, so you can probably calculate it as ~7% overall damage increase (12% increase 60% of the time). Of course also has a nice little health and stam recovery.
Draugr and Automaton have the best non-proc damage at effectively 799 overall and 1199 for physical.
If you include the proc though, and assume base weapon damage is only 1200 Draughr + Essence Theif is effectively 1048 with no conditions (901 effective weapon damage + 1200 base * 7%), and this doesn't take into effect better weapons (so more base weapon damage), Major Brutality, or any other buffs, all of which Essence Thief stacks on since it's just a bonus to damage done.
Draugr + Hundings is pretty good too, with 1069 unconditional effective damage increase + some extra crit, also crafted, so 500 runs of Direfrost or White Gold Tower for that sharpened weapon
, but it lacks the stam and health recovery and is otherwise pretty much the same as essence thief.So seems to be, unless the essence thief proc is broken, or the damage multiplier is not what I expect, that is better than pretty much anything else
Comments before I start farming Essence Thief
? Are there soft caps on the bonus damage from Stamina? If so this become terrible.2
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GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You have to go and actually pick up the Essence to gain the buff, which means down time doing dps. So its not BiS.PS4 NA DC4 -
Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »You have to go and actually pick up the Essence to gain the buff, which means down time doing dps. So its not BiS.
^ This. Would be an amazing set if you didn't have to pick it up.PC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB1 -
Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭This guy has done lots of math relating to stamina NB DPS, and I'd recommend you read through his thread.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stamina-nightblade-pve-dps-guide-for-dark-brotherhood/PC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB0 -
amasuriel✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »You have to go and actually pick up the Essence to gain the buff, which means down time doing dps. So its not BiS.
Wow you have to pick it up!!!!! it doesn't say that in the description. Lol okay thread failed, Essence thief is terribad. Why would they do such a thing?1 -
amasuriel✭✭✭✭This guy has done lots of math relating to stamina NB DPS, and I'd recommend you read through his thread.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stamina-nightblade-pve-dps-guide-for-dark-brotherhood/
That is an awesome post, thanks for linking. So Spriggan or NMG would probably give me more benefit than hundings, but for an imperial seems like Draughr > Hundings by quite a bit. So Maybe Draughr / NMG or Spriggan would be a good combo. I have no interest in trials, so VO is off the table for me.0 -
Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭You are probably not putting enough value on crit. For PVE DPS, 1x crit bonus >>>> 1x stam bonus, even for Imp/redguard.
Personally my non-VO setup is 5x Hundings, 5x Viper, 2x Velidreth. I use it primarily for VMA, but it pulls 30-35k DPS on 4-man dungeon bosses (with 400 CPs, and no VMA bow) which is perfectly acceptable and will probably push closer to 40k with VMA bow and 561CP.
I would use NMG over hunding's if not for my stamsorc friend that I always run vet dungeons with running NMG. Also, Hundings > NMG for a NB in VMA due to buffing heals and not overpenetrating most mobs.Edited by Kutsuu on November 28, 2016 8:45PMPC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB0 -
jkolb2030✭✭✭This guy has done lots of math relating to stamina NB DPS, and I'd recommend you read through his thread.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stamina-nightblade-pve-dps-guide-for-dark-brotherhood/
That is an awesome post, thanks for linking. So Spriggan or NMG would probably give me more benefit than hundings, but for an imperial seems like Draughr > Hundings by quite a bit. So Maybe Draughr / NMG or Spriggan would be a good combo. I have no interest in trials, so VO is off the table for me.
If you're running a DK you can get away with Hundings if you'd like since Noxious Breath has its own Major Fracture debuff it applies.
Any class other than DK would probably benefit more from NMG, and moreso any group you run with will also benefit from the debuff - so long as you are critting, of course.
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Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭This guy has done lots of math relating to stamina NB DPS, and I'd recommend you read through his thread.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stamina-nightblade-pve-dps-guide-for-dark-brotherhood/
That is an awesome post, thanks for linking. So Spriggan or NMG would probably give me more benefit than hundings, but for an imperial seems like Draughr > Hundings by quite a bit. So Maybe Draughr / NMG or Spriggan would be a good combo. I have no interest in trials, so VO is off the table for me.
If you're running a DK you can get away with Hundings if you'd like since Noxious Breath has its own Major Fracture debuff it applies.
Any class other than DK would probably benefit more from NMG, and moreso any group you run with will also benefit from the debuff - so long as you are critting, of course.
NBs will usually use surprise attack if they do not have VMA 1hers - pretty small DPS difference in exchange for fracture and shadow barrier.PC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »You have to go and actually pick up the Essence to gain the buff, which means down time doing dps. So its not BiS.
Wow you have to pick it up!!!!! it doesn't say that in the description. Lol okay thread failed, Essence thief is terribad. Why would they do such a thing?
Its obvious isnt it? They will never give you a really good set. The most you can hope for is a decent but consistent set or a super OP but flawed set.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This guy has done lots of math relating to stamina NB DPS, and I'd recommend you read through his thread.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stamina-nightblade-pve-dps-guide-for-dark-brotherhood/
^ This guy knows.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You are probably not putting enough value on crit. For PVE DPS, 1x crit bonus >>>> 1x stam bonus, even for Imp/redguard.
Personally my non-VO setup is 5x Hundings, 5x Viper, 2x Velidreth. I use it primarily for VMA, but it pulls 30-35k DPS on 4-man dungeon bosses (with 400 CPs, and no VMA bow) which is perfectly acceptable and will probably push closer to 40k with VMA bow and 561CP.
I would use NMG over hunding's if not for my stamsorc friend that I always run vet dungeons with running NMG. Also, Hundings > NMG for a NB in VMA due to buffing heals and not overpenetrating most mobs.
Adding on to this, my set-up without VO, is 5 TBS, 5 Leviathan and 2 Kra'gh/Velidreth. Pretty sweet tbh.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Hurika✭✭✭✭You also need to consider any buff that increases weapon damage such as rally, fighter's guild passive, flawless dawnbreaker, etc. They don't increase your stam but do increase weapon damage - usually by a % which can add up fast.1
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acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭If your going to use Essence Thief then Alkosh is for you.'
In order to collect the Essence you have to use the synergy Alkosh gives you a lot for that synergy not the least of which is a stackable dot and resistance rebuffs.0 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fun fact for those who subrcibe to Velidreth being pure greatness.
Selene hits harder.
Procs twice as often.'
And only misses if the target dies before the bear hits him.
Just sayin.....0 -
amasuriel✭✭✭✭You also need to consider any buff that increases weapon damage such as rally, fighter's guild passive, flawless dawnbreaker, etc. They don't increase your stam but do increase weapon damage - usually by a % which can add up fast.
It's a good point actually, even the medium armor passive is weapon damage, so if you wear medium you probably have 20+% weapon damage. I'll have to recalculate with that in mind0 -
amasuriel✭✭✭✭You are probably not putting enough value on crit. For PVE DPS, 1x crit bonus >>>> 1x stam bonus, even for Imp/redguard.
Personally my non-VO setup is 5x Hundings, 5x Viper, 2x Velidreth. I use it primarily for VMA, but it pulls 30-35k DPS on 4-man dungeon bosses (with 400 CPs, and no VMA bow) which is perfectly acceptable and will probably push closer to 40k with VMA bow and 561CP.
I would use NMG over hunding's if not for my stamsorc friend that I always run vet dungeons with running NMG. Also, Hundings > NMG for a NB in VMA due to buffing heals and not overpenetrating most mobs.
You are saying that 3% crit is worth the equivalent of 100 weapon damage? I mean it's hard to calculate without a finished build, because crit multiplies damage, but by my math, if you have a skill that hits for 8k, 3% crit chance adds the equivalent of ~121 damage per strike (1 out of every 33 hits will do an extra 4k, 4k/33 is 121). If its a 6k damage ability its only worth about 90 damage. So I guess it depends on what skills you use and the rest of your layout.0 -
Synozeer✭✭✭✭✭Fun fact for those who subrcibe to Velidreth being pure greatness.
Selene hits harder.
Procs twice as often.'
And only misses if the target dies before the bear hits him.
Just sayin.....
It misses if they are out of range of it when it procs, or if they move a different direction. It acts a lot like Selene's the boss - if they aren't in front of it when it goes off, it misses. And you can also dodge it.
Velidreth also can be avoided by almost the same ways, but the advantage of Velidreth is that you can usually depend on it for your initial burst attack, while Selene is more of an overall dps increase. Velidreth will proc off your dots, like Poison Injection, making it often proc when you're not next to them, while Selenes will generally only proc when you're next to them and actively attacking.
Edited by Synozeer on November 29, 2016 2:47AMWatch my PvP Videos on YouTube
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...and many more.0 -
Pallio✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is a sweet spot for crit, somewhere between 65-75%, beyond that it becomes less.valuable than wd/stam etc.0 -
amasuriel✭✭✭✭There is a sweet spot for crit, somewhere between 65-75%, beyond that it becomes less.valuable than wd/stam etc.
@Pallio and @Brutusmax1mus do you have any math to back that up? Based on what I posted above, 3% crit chance (which is 1 normal set bonus) is only better than stam or weapon damage if the attacks that are criting are above 8k damage. Otherwise it's not.0
