Who else likes the idea of players able to attack anyone attacking an npc?

DragonBound · November 2016

I think the there should be more consequences but also incentive to attack an opposing city or defending your home city/lands, it would be cool seeing raids of people fighting each other over this.

Riejael · November 2016

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I think the there should be more consequences but also incentive to attack an opposing city or defending your home city/lands,

I think something like this would be interesting. It'd have to be limited to a timeframe right after the deed. And perhaps only after a certain level of bounty. However I think they should tone down the guards to normal elite status if they do this. Since you'd have droves of player 'guards' on standby.

As for incentives.. the players who participate in taking down the wanted criminal get an equal share of the bounty. Since this is taken directly from the criminal, there's no way to glitch the system to produce gold. For example if someone's bounty is 2000, they have 1000 gold, and 4 people help take him down. Each gets 250 (not 500). And then the target moves to a level where he's not attackable (prevent camping).

Making it to an area with fences makes the target unattackable.

it would be cool seeing raids of people fighting each other over this.

Unfortunately this level of PVP doesn't happen in MMORPGs anymore. It was a cultural-social shift among the gaming community around 2006 that changed.

BlackSparrow · November 2016

While I think this would add an extra dimension to playing a criminal, there would be so many people camping the DB repeatable targets. The second level of Kragenmoor would straight-up collapse from all the people looking to snag a bounty. I also suspect many public assassinations would result in a dogpile where the sheer number of prospective vigilantes basically wittles the bounty down to pennies apiece.

When the justice system was first announced, they had planned on having players be able to participate via reporting and exacting vigilante justice. But the idea was scrapped. It might have worked, had it been built into the system but, alas, it was not.

Bouldercleave · November 2016

So basically you want open PvP.

Tandor · November 2016

Open world PvP?

No thanks.

This sort of thing would be possible with separate servers with different rulesets, so that pure PvP players could enjoy such things on an open PvP server (as long as they could find other players who enjoyed being ganked beyond Week 2), but merging PvP and PvE in this way on a single megaserver simply isn't going to happen, not should it. ZOS made it clear when they first talked about the Justice System that there were massive caveats, and they finally realised it wasn't workable.

ArchMikem · November 2016

Being able to attack other players without the need to accept a Duel request would result in complete and utter chaos in the streets everywhere. All you'd need to do is turn your "prevent attack innocents" off, fire a light attack at an NPC and then it's a giant free for all. And I'm certain a majority would do this, even if they later come onto the forum to complain about it they'd just head right back in and take part. Hypocrites everywhere.

It's a good idea nonetheless though OP. One I've made myself before once, after getting sick and tired of seeing people going on Murder sprees in broad daylight cause they're able to escape the Guards. But it's just something we have to deal with.

sirston · November 2016

uh oh! you made the PVE players angry with the idea of Open world pvp; and summoned the" Im a PVE player and I want no consequences for my actions response". Tread carefully you should of made a trigger warning.

STEVIL · November 2016

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I think the there should be more consequences but also incentive to attack an opposing city or defending your home city/lands, it would be cool seeing raids of people fighting each other over this.

In Cyrodiil sure

White wabbit · November 2016

Omg justice system thread again ! It just won't die

Bouldercleave · November 2016

sirston wrote: »

uh oh! you made the PVE players angry with the idea of Open world pvp; and summoned the" Im a PVE player and I want no consequences for my actions response". Tread carefully you should of made a trigger warning.

Wrong - There are already consequences to getting caught. PvE consequences in an PvE environment. Invincible guards and bounties are more than enough. We don't need you or your ganking friends camping everything just waiting for someone trying to complete the thieves guild questline so they can "pwn a noob".

Keep that in PvP zones.

Delta1038 · November 2016

Personally I wish I could just heal the NPC and prevent the player from being able to kill them.

idk · November 2016

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I think the there should be more consequences but also incentive to attack an opposing city or defending your home city/lands, it would be cool seeing raids of people fighting each other over this.

No, it could easily become absurd and would also require an opt out making it pointless in the end.

DragonBound · November 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

Being able to attack other players without the need to accept a Duel request would result in complete and utter chaos in the streets everywhere. All you'd need to do is turn your "prevent attack innocents" off, fire a light attack at an NPC and then it's a giant free for all. And I'm certain a majority would do this, even if they later come onto the forum to complain about it they'd just head right back in and take part. Hypocrites everywhere.

It's a good idea nonetheless though OP. One I've made myself before once, after getting sick and tired of seeing people going on Murder sprees in broad daylight cause they're able to escape the Guards. But it's just something we have to deal with.

No what I said is any player able to attack the player that attack an npc within 5 mins or something.

DragonBound · November 2016

Riejael wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I think the there should be more consequences but also incentive to attack an opposing city or defending your home city/lands,

I think something like this would be interesting. It'd have to be limited to a timeframe right after the deed. And perhaps only after a certain level of bounty. However I think they should tone down the guards to normal elite status if they do this. Since you'd have droves of player 'guards' on standby.

As for incentives.. the players who participate in taking down the wanted criminal get an equal share of the bounty. Since this is taken directly from the criminal, there's no way to glitch the system to produce gold. For example if someone's bounty is 2000, they have 1000 gold, and 4 people help take him down. Each gets 250 (not 500). And then the target moves to a level where he's not attackable (prevent camping).

Making it to an area with fences makes the target unattackable.

it would be cool seeing raids of people fighting each other over this.

Unfortunately this level of PVP doesn't happen in MMORPGs anymore. It was a cultural-social shift among the gaming community around 2006 that changed.

Haha shadowbane anyone? I just think the justice system is very one sided.

DragonBound · November 2016

Bouldercleave wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

uh oh! you made the PVE players angry with the idea of Open world pvp; and summoned the" Im a PVE player and I want no consequences for my actions response". Tread carefully you should of made a trigger warning.

Wrong - There are already consequences to getting caught. PvE consequences in an PvE environment. Invincible guards and bounties are more than enough. I don't need you or your ganking friends camping everything just waiting for someone trying to complete the thieves guild questline so they can "pwn a noob".

Keep that in PvP zones.

Those consequences are crap sorry but you can easily pay money.

FoolishHuman · November 2016

Maybe the guards should then arrest duelers in cities for "disturbing the peace"?

ArchMikem · November 2016

Delta1038 wrote: »

Personally I wish I could just heal the NPC and prevent the player from being able to kill them.

You can actually. The Templar healing abilities also affect NPCs. I realized this early on in Stonefalls, during a quest there's a group of injured NPCs by default in a ruined home , they have like 10% of their health gone. Fired off a Breath of Life and I healed them all to full.

I've also tried hiding up in a Resource Tower in Cyrodiil and heal the Mage Guard while an enemy player attacked it.

Bouldercleave · November 2016

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

uh oh! you made the PVE players angry with the idea of Open world pvp; and summoned the" Im a PVE player and I want no consequences for my actions response". Tread carefully you should of made a trigger warning.

Wrong - There are already consequences to getting caught. PvE consequences in an PvE environment. Invincible guards and bounties are more than enough. I don't need you or your ganking friends camping everything just waiting for someone trying to complete the thieves guild questline so they can "pwn a noob".

Keep that in PvP zones.

Those consequences are crap sorry but you can easily pay money.

It doesn't matter if they are crap, they are PvE consequences in a PvE environment. PvP doesn't belong there.

Darethran · November 2016

With all of it's faults, Age Of Wulin did this right. http://www.ageofwushu.com/material/view/37

That MMO has open world PvP, where you can attack other players anywhere. The problem? Do that, and other players get to kill you for a monetary reward; there's a real incentive to slay criminals, and if you're a criminal, you get right buggered over.

The result? No chaos in the cities, but the potential of getting held up by a bandit gang is there.

Black Desert Online had a more barebones system. Hit level 50, then you can participate in no holds barred, open world PvP. The only safe zones are the cities and towns; everywhere else, you're fair game. To be able to enter/exit the open world PvP, you just click a wee button that has a ten minute cooldown; the open world PvP is completely optional.

Give me that. Give me the possibility of laying siege to Wayrest. Gimme the possibility of committing genocide on the Bosmer. And hell, if we are able to siege...Oh my.

Oh aye, another great game with open world PvP was Ultima Online, before it was butchered later in it's development. Felucca was an anything-goes land, and oh boy oh boy was it good.

vonScuzzman · November 2016

no thanks.

IrishGirlGamer · November 2016

Since you asked this question: Who else likes this idea?

Not me, thanks for asking.

Tandor · November 2016

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I think the there should be more consequences but also incentive to attack an opposing city or defending your home city/lands,

I think something like this would be interesting. It'd have to be limited to a timeframe right after the deed. And perhaps only after a certain level of bounty. However I think they should tone down the guards to normal elite status if they do this. Since you'd have droves of player 'guards' on standby.

As for incentives.. the players who participate in taking down the wanted criminal get an equal share of the bounty. Since this is taken directly from the criminal, there's no way to glitch the system to produce gold. For example if someone's bounty is 2000, they have 1000 gold, and 4 people help take him down. Each gets 250 (not 500). And then the target moves to a level where he's not attackable (prevent camping).

Making it to an area with fences makes the target unattackable.

it would be cool seeing raids of people fighting each other over this.

Unfortunately this level of PVP doesn't happen in MMORPGs anymore. It was a cultural-social shift among the gaming community around 2006 that changed.

Haha shadowbane anyone? I just think the justice system is very one sided.

That's easily fixed by balancing the penalty side of the equation. Making the PvE Justice System tougher so that crime doesn't pay so easily and adding PvP to the Justice System are two entirely different matters.

I've yet to see anyone who claims simply to be motivated by a desire to see the PvE Justice System toughened up a bit put forward a proposal for that, if they did so I've no doubt it would get a lot of support. Instead, all we see is an endless series of doomed proposals for open world PvP masquerading as an extension of the Justice System so that PvPers can gank PvEers who are ill-equipped in PvE areas to take on experienced PvPers who've got bored with Cyrodiil and Imperial City, and who are probably already bored with dueling, just as they'd soon be bored with playing Enforcers v Criminals.

idk · November 2016

MajinCry wrote: »

With all of it's faults, Age Of Wulin did this right. http://www.ageofwushu.com/material/view/37

That MMO has open world PvP, where you can attack other players anywhere.

Works fine in a game designed for that. This game would require an opt out and would mostly render the idea moot. Devs have made this clear that it will not happen as described in the OP and likely not at all.

It would be horrible for this game since it was not designed or billed as such.

Bouldercleave · November 2016

Tandor wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I think the there should be more consequences but also incentive to attack an opposing city or defending your home city/lands,

I think something like this would be interesting. It'd have to be limited to a timeframe right after the deed. And perhaps only after a certain level of bounty. However I think they should tone down the guards to normal elite status if they do this. Since you'd have droves of player 'guards' on standby.

As for incentives.. the players who participate in taking down the wanted criminal get an equal share of the bounty. Since this is taken directly from the criminal, there's no way to glitch the system to produce gold. For example if someone's bounty is 2000, they have 1000 gold, and 4 people help take him down. Each gets 250 (not 500). And then the target moves to a level where he's not attackable (prevent camping).

Making it to an area with fences makes the target unattackable.

it would be cool seeing raids of people fighting each other over this.

Unfortunately this level of PVP doesn't happen in MMORPGs anymore. It was a cultural-social shift among the gaming community around 2006 that changed.

Haha shadowbane anyone? I just think the justice system is very one sided.

That's easily fixed by balancing the penalty side of the equation. Making the PvE Justice System tougher so that crime doesn't pay so easily and adding PvP to the Justice System are two entirely different matters.

I've yet to see anyone who claims simply to be motivated by a desire to see the PvE Justice System toughened up a bit put forward a proposal for that, if they did so I've no doubt it would get a lot of support. Instead, all we see is an endless series of doomed proposals for open world PvP masquerading as an extension of the Justice System so that PvPers can gank PvEers who are ill-equipped in PvE areas to take on experienced PvPers who've got bored with Cyrodiil and Imperial City, and who are probably already bored with dueling, just as they'd soon be bored with playing Enforcers v Criminals.

Very well said!

Alucardo · November 2016

Hell yes, sign me up

RAGUNAnoOne · November 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Hell yes, sign me up

@Alucardo you can't kill me so why so eager?

STEVIL · November 2016

Bouldercleave wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

uh oh! you made the PVE players angry with the idea of Open world pvp; and summoned the" Im a PVE player and I want no consequences for my actions response". Tread carefully you should of made a trigger warning.

Wrong - There are already consequences to getting caught. PvE consequences in an PvE environment. Invincible guards and bounties are more than enough. I don't need you or your ganking friends camping everything just waiting for someone trying to complete the thieves guild questline so they can "pwn a noob".

Keep that in PvP zones.

Those consequences are crap sorry but you can easily pay money.

It doesn't matter if they are crap, they are PvE consequences in a PvE environment. PvP doesn't belong there.

Actually, it does matter. The current pve injustice difficulty/consequences is on par with the other casual pve play including overland grinding, questing, delving. If you make it harder you affect greatly the casual play side of it.

Adding more difficult content is fine, but most of the time i see this dubjects its more sbout msking pve injustice harder to encourage a pvp justice option.

Vrienda · November 2016

I am 100% against this idea. The crime system should remain entirely PvE whilst in PvE zones.

DragonBound · November 2016

Tandor wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I think the there should be more consequences but also incentive to attack an opposing city or defending your home city/lands,

I think something like this would be interesting. It'd have to be limited to a timeframe right after the deed. And perhaps only after a certain level of bounty. However I think they should tone down the guards to normal elite status if they do this. Since you'd have droves of player 'guards' on standby.

As for incentives.. the players who participate in taking down the wanted criminal get an equal share of the bounty. Since this is taken directly from the criminal, there's no way to glitch the system to produce gold. For example if someone's bounty is 2000, they have 1000 gold, and 4 people help take him down. Each gets 250 (not 500). And then the target moves to a level where he's not attackable (prevent camping).

Making it to an area with fences makes the target unattackable.

it would be cool seeing raids of people fighting each other over this.

Unfortunately this level of PVP doesn't happen in MMORPGs anymore. It was a cultural-social shift among the gaming community around 2006 that changed.

Haha shadowbane anyone? I just think the justice system is very one sided.

That's easily fixed by balancing the penalty side of the equation. Making the PvE Justice System tougher so that crime doesn't pay so easily and adding PvP to the Justice System are two entirely different matters.

I've yet to see anyone who claims simply to be motivated by a desire to see the PvE Justice System toughened up a bit put forward a proposal for that, if they did so I've no doubt it would get a lot of support. Instead, all we see is an endless series of doomed proposals for open world PvP masquerading as an extension of the Justice System so that PvPers can gank PvEers who are ill-equipped in PvE areas to take on experienced PvPers who've got bored with Cyrodiil and Imperial City, and who are probably already bored with dueling, just as they'd soon be bored with playing Enforcers v Criminals.

Look I'm still new to the game its just a flaw I have noticed and was thinking of a creative way to make it different, also if someone proposed a way pve wise it would likely sound boring to people and most would be against it, I think adding the pvp thing is way more interesting and by the way I am mostly a pver I'm just being objective about it.

Bouldercleave · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

uh oh! you made the PVE players angry with the idea of Open world pvp; and summoned the" Im a PVE player and I want no consequences for my actions response". Tread carefully you should of made a trigger warning.

Wrong - There are already consequences to getting caught. PvE consequences in an PvE environment. Invincible guards and bounties are more than enough. I don't need you or your ganking friends camping everything just waiting for someone trying to complete the thieves guild questline so they can "pwn a noob".

Keep that in PvP zones.

Those consequences are crap sorry but you can easily pay money.

It doesn't matter if they are crap, they are PvE consequences in a PvE environment. PvP doesn't belong there.

Actually, it does matter. The current pve injustice difficulty/consequences is on par with the other casual pve play including overland grinding, questing, delving. If you make it harder you affect greatly the casual play side of it.

Adding more difficult content is fine, but most of the time i see this dubjects its more sbout msking pve injustice harder to encourage a pvp justice option.

I didn't understand a word of that last sentence, so I'm really not sure if we agree or disagree...

idk · November 2016

Tandor wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I think the there should be more consequences but also incentive to attack an opposing city or defending your home city/lands,

I think something like this would be interesting. It'd have to be limited to a timeframe right after the deed. And perhaps only after a certain level of bounty. However I think they should tone down the guards to normal elite status if they do this. Since you'd have droves of player 'guards' on standby.

As for incentives.. the players who participate in taking down the wanted criminal get an equal share of the bounty. Since this is taken directly from the criminal, there's no way to glitch the system to produce gold. For example if someone's bounty is 2000, they have 1000 gold, and 4 people help take him down. Each gets 250 (not 500). And then the target moves to a level where he's not attackable (prevent camping).

Making it to an area with fences makes the target unattackable.

it would be cool seeing raids of people fighting each other over this.

Unfortunately this level of PVP doesn't happen in MMORPGs anymore. It was a cultural-social shift among the gaming community around 2006 that changed.

Haha shadowbane anyone? I just think the justice system is very one sided.

That's easily fixed by balancing the penalty side of the equation. Making the PvE Justice System tougher so that crime doesn't pay so easily and adding PvP to the Justice System are two entirely different matters.

I've yet to see anyone who claims simply to be motivated by a desire to see the PvE Justice System toughened up a bit put forward a proposal for that, if they did so I've no doubt it would get a lot of support. Instead, all we see is an endless series of doomed proposals for open world PvP masquerading as an extension of the Justice System so that PvPers can gank PvEers who are ill-equipped in PvE areas to take on experienced PvPers who've got bored with Cyrodiil and Imperial City, and who are probably already bored with dueling, just as they'd soon be bored with playing Enforcers v Criminals.

@Tandor This was easily solved a while back when the devs replied with a solid no. Many players were against it without an Opt out which made it pointless to implement.