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Let's Talk RNG, Bruh... From Champ to ZOS.

Ch4mpTW
Ch4mpTW
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What exactly is up with the RNG in this game, and why is it so atrocious? I understand that 1 of the points of a MMO is the constant grind to make your build 'better', but why is there nothing in place to ease or 'stabilize' the grind?

For example. Let's look at Diablo 3's Reaper of Souls. You have a series of ways to get the item you want, and stats you want. It's not just grinding rifts or mobs nonstop. You can gamble at Kadala with blood shards, and then hit up the enchantress to keep rolling for better stats if you don't like the stats you have on the item you received. So it's not like it's impossible to get for example a Wand of Woh (relatively rare Wizard drop), and then with good traits. Not to mention, you can also modify said weapon with a specialized cube to improve it further to be able to use a gem with it. Rather than hoping it came with a socket, or rolling for one. There are counter measures to make sure you don't get completely screwed over by RNG, while still promoting the grind for gear. Why aren't some of these features in ESO? I have no idea.

Want players to play your game? Okay. That's fine. Want players to work for end-game gear and strong gear? That's fine. But, don't sit there and dilute the loot tables with crap traits like Charged in Maelstrom Arena. Don't not have a token system in place, so that a player can do something over 1k times and still be S.O.L., all because the player had "bad luck". Then turn around and have players who maybe complete the content once or twice, and get a best-in-slot drop with perfect traits. That's an amateur move to make, ZOS.

And would you like to know what happens when you incorporate that type of system...? You have your forums flooded with complaints of the trash RNG in place. You have people no longer wanting to subscribe to your game, or in cases like mine, not want to touch your game for prolonged periods of time. Only to return on the next update is released alongside new changes and new content. So it in fact has the opposites effect of what you want. Oh, and you don't have to take my word for it. I did a poll on this located here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/302366/would-you-still-play-if-there-was-no-grind/p1 And in the words of Yo Gotti, numbers don't lie. The data is right there for you to see for yourself. And I'm pretty sure those numbers would pretty similar if asked of those outside of the forums the same question, on whether or not they'd still play without being subjected to your RNG-based grind.

Also, while we are talking about taking input from your player base — why do you all refuse to change the system in place if you constantly receive so many complaints about it...? I'm not a game developer, but I am pretty sure if a company had constant complaints every single day/week about how bad their system(a) is? They'd work hard on fixing it, and try to make it a tad bit better. They wouldn't constantly ignore the people lacing their pockets from subscription and crown store purchases, but rather try to please them to keep the bucks flowing in. Not slow down. That's counter-productive.

ZOS, you are the only company I know of who literally ignores what your player base over serious issues, and at times then makes things worst. Case and point you strengthening poisons, rather than making them weaker. Even though on the PTS, we told you that they were over-performing. You literally ignored it, and did it your way. Then looked goofy on ESO Live when you saw it for yourself, and made no comment on it. But, that's a topic in and of itself. And I don't make too many more threads nowadays on the forums. So no, I won't get on your helmet about that. But, I highly advise you guys do something about your RNG. Or incorporate a token system, or allow players to re-roll things. Otherwise, you're just asking for: More complaint threads, more people dropping subs, more people ceasing to play, more people speaking bad about the game, and more people speaking ill of ZOS. All things I'm sure you don't want.

... Unless of course you truly don't give a damn, and really are out to make a buck only and on your final threads of care regarding the game. In which case completely disregard all that I wrote. Lol.

Edit:
For the people who like to half-ass read things, and then make a comment/response that has nothin to do with the thread itself — here is a TL;DR for you: "ZOS, please make your RNG better. So that the future of your own product strives and gets out this downward spiral of negativity."
Edited by Ch4mpTW on November 21, 2016 4:01AM
  • SanderBuraas
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    A long thread filled with complaints. At least propose a solution, or at least an original one.

    [Retired from ESO]

    That is a lie. You just keep coming back.
  • Woeler
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    Smepic wrote: »

    That is a lie. You just keep coming back.

    And make a million useless topics about rng and msa.
  • Belicourt
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    Yeh. I main a pvp mdk so idgaf about something like vma, which is really the biggest rng plunder not to mention overland set drops from one tamriel. It boils down tobe too much of a grind for gear so if i cant craft it ill likely do without. Willpower and agility arcane/robust just got to be a reasonable grind time just in time for it tobe irrelevant. If i truly liked stam bulds such as those that required 2h maelstrom sharp then i would have quit long ago. This nullifies that content because it is def not fun. That coupled with the amount if deaths people say you mist endure just to finish it, get on a leaderboard, and the get sharted on is *** poor game design. In summary /in response to your last comment they would be out to make money if they actually made their game fun. Because as it is its only marginally fun, unless you like dungeons and quests then go crazy... zos, you are your own worst enemy. You have a pile of potential money waiting for you and you dont even recognize it. Cheers.
  • Ch4mpTW
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    Smepic wrote: »
    A long thread filled with complaints. At least propose a solution, or at least an original one.

    [Retired from ESO]

    That is a lie. You just keep coming back.

    @Smepic Tons of solutions have been presented before them, and they've constantly been ignored.

    Also false. I am retired. Haven't been on ESO in days. Days. And even when I did play prior to quitting officially, I played for no longer than maybe a hour and a half per sitting. And that's for PvE, as I haven't set foot in Cyrodiil in MONTHS. Yes months. I refuse to be bothered with anything remotely serious to PvP. I got my duelist title on my main on the first day dueling came out from playing with guildies, and then called it a wrap with all my PvP'ing.

    It's incredibly rude to call someone a liar, and not have the facts to back what you say. Just because I post on the forums, does not mean am active within the game. Instead of defending the busted system ZOS has in place, why not try to see things for what they really are?

    Edit: I forgot to mention I haven't touched my Mac version of the game in months, as I stopped caring about ESO enough to play on both Mac and PS4 as I used to. I only played on PS4 (when I did play), and until the next expansion/update is released? I damn sure won't be touching the PS4 version, as I'm enjoying much better games laid before me.
    Edited by Ch4mpTW on November 21, 2016 4:33AM
  • dday3six
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    So first and foremost this is too long for ZOS to read through. You need to get your point across with much less. There are only so many hours in the day, and you could have easily said something paraphrased as "Loot is unrewarding for the time invested, and the drop tables a polluted with too many undesirable items." That is a single sentence that conveyed what took you paragraphs. Then you need to offer at least a hint of a solution. ZOS is aware of the player stance on this, repeating it over and over will not solve the dilemma any faster.

    Second you need to understand what it is you're actually speaking about. RNG simply means random number generator. Better or worse doesn't factored into that, and you're distracting from what you saying with too many bulk details. What you're talking about is the loot system, and RNG is related to everything that is chance based and not just that.
  • Mojmir
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Smepic wrote: »
    A long thread filled with complaints. At least propose a solution, or at least an original one.

    [Retired from ESO]

    That is a lie. You just keep coming back.

    @Smepic Tons of solutions have been presented before them, and they've constantly been ignored.

    Also false. I am retired. Haven't been on ESO in days. Days. And even when I did play prior to quitting officially, I played for no longer than maybe a hour and a half per sitting. And that's for PvE, as I haven't set foot in Cyrodiil in MONTHS. Yes months. I refuse to be bothered with anything remotely serious to PvP. I got my duelist title on my main on the first day dueling came out from playing with guildies, and then called it a wrap with all my PvP'ing.

    It's incredibly rude to call someone a liar, and not have the facts to back what you say. Just because I post on the forums, does not mean am active within the game. Instead of defending the busted system ZOS has in place, why not try to see things for what they really are?

    Semi-retired, if you retired from a job would you still call your former co workers to see how works going?
  • Ch4mpTW
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    dday3six wrote: »
    So first and foremost this is too long for ZOS to read through. You need to get your point across with much less. There are only so many hours in the day, and you could have easily said something paraphrased as "Loot is unrewarding for the time invested, and the drop tables a polluted with too many undesirable items." That is a single sentence that conveyed what took you paragraphs. Then you need to offer at least a hint of a solution. ZOS is aware of the player stance on this, repeating it over and over will not solve the dilemma any faster.

    Second you need to understand what it is you're actually speaking about. RNG simply means random number generator. Better or worse doesn't factored into that, and you're distracting from what you saying with too many bulk details. What you're talking about is the loot system, and RNG is related to everything that is chance based and not just that.

    Lol. Ok. Here is a solution. Stop making the loot tables garbage. Done.
  • Ch4mpTW
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    Mojmir wrote: »
    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Smepic wrote: »
    A long thread filled with complaints. At least propose a solution, or at least an original one.

    [Retired from ESO]

    That is a lie. You just keep coming back.

    @Smepic Tons of solutions have been presented before them, and they've constantly been ignored.

    Also false. I am retired. Haven't been on ESO in days. Days. And even when I did play prior to quitting officially, I played for no longer than maybe a hour and a half per sitting. And that's for PvE, as I haven't set foot in Cyrodiil in MONTHS. Yes months. I refuse to be bothered with anything remotely serious to PvP. I got my duelist title on my main on the first day dueling came out from playing with guildies, and then called it a wrap with all my PvP'ing.

    It's incredibly rude to call someone a liar, and not have the facts to back what you say. Just because I post on the forums, does not mean am active within the game. Instead of defending the busted system ZOS has in place, why not try to see things for what they really are?

    Semi-retired, if you retired from a job would you still call your former co workers to see how works going?

    @Mojmir Lel. Okay. I'll change my signature to "semi-retired". :trollface:
  • Mojmir
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Mojmir wrote: »
    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Smepic wrote: »
    A long thread filled with complaints. At least propose a solution, or at least an original one.

    [Retired from ESO]

    That is a lie. You just keep coming back.

    @Smepic Tons of solutions have been presented before them, and they've constantly been ignored.

    Also false. I am retired. Haven't been on ESO in days. Days. And even when I did play prior to quitting officially, I played for no longer than maybe a hour and a half per sitting. And that's for PvE, as I haven't set foot in Cyrodiil in MONTHS. Yes months. I refuse to be bothered with anything remotely serious to PvP. I got my duelist title on my main on the first day dueling came out from playing with guildies, and then called it a wrap with all my PvP'ing.

    It's incredibly rude to call someone a liar, and not have the facts to back what you say. Just because I post on the forums, does not mean am active within the game. Instead of defending the busted system ZOS has in place, why not try to see things for what they really are?

    Semi-retired, if you retired from a job would you still call your former co workers to see how works going?

    @Mojmir Lel. Okay. I'll change my signature to "semi-retired". :trollface:

    And semi pro :p
    Edited by Mojmir on November 21, 2016 4:38AM
  • dday3six
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    dday3six wrote: »
    So first and foremost this is too long for ZOS to read through. You need to get your point across with much less. There are only so many hours in the day, and you could have easily said something paraphrased as "Loot is unrewarding for the time invested, and the drop tables a polluted with too many undesirable items." That is a single sentence that conveyed what took you paragraphs. Then you need to offer at least a hint of a solution. ZOS is aware of the player stance on this, repeating it over and over will not solve the dilemma any faster.

    Second you need to understand what it is you're actually speaking about. RNG simply means random number generator. Better or worse doesn't factored into that, and you're distracting from what you saying with too many bulk details. What you're talking about is the loot system, and RNG is related to everything that is chance based and not just that.

    Lol. Ok. Here is a solution. Stop making the loot tables garbage. Done.

    And that's why few take you seriously. If you want discussion you need to offer reasonable grounds to discuss on. Seems to me you just want internet snark. Which I'm really confused by because you have a long history of acting butthurt after others respond to your snark with their own.
  • Ch4mpTW
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    dday3six wrote: »
    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    dday3six wrote: »
    So first and foremost this is too long for ZOS to read through. You need to get your point across with much less. There are only so many hours in the day, and you could have easily said something paraphrased as "Loot is unrewarding for the time invested, and the drop tables a polluted with too many undesirable items." That is a single sentence that conveyed what took you paragraphs. Then you need to offer at least a hint of a solution. ZOS is aware of the player stance on this, repeating it over and over will not solve the dilemma any faster.

    Second you need to understand what it is you're actually speaking about. RNG simply means random number generator. Better or worse doesn't factored into that, and you're distracting from what you saying with too many bulk details. What you're talking about is the loot system, and RNG is related to everything that is chance based and not just that.

    Lol. Ok. Here is a solution. Stop making the loot tables garbage. Done.

    And that's why few take you seriously. If you want discussion you need to offer reasonable grounds to discuss on. Seems to me you just want internet snark. Which I'm really confused by because you have a long history of acting butthurt after others respond to your snark with their own.

    Let me ask you something. Do I seem like the person to care whether or not someone on an Elder Scrolls forum takes me seriously or not? Let alone from a crowd of people who defend things that have glaring flaws, and will defend a company no matter how blatantly wrong the company is...? Do I...? Read up on me a tad bit.

    And if what I posted above was not reasonable enough, and didn't post enough things to go off in terms of fixing the RNG/loot issue with ESO? Then its honestly just too bad. As for acting snark...? Lol. Ok. If you say so.
  • dday3six
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    dday3six wrote: »
    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    dday3six wrote: »
    So first and foremost this is too long for ZOS to read through. You need to get your point across with much less. There are only so many hours in the day, and you could have easily said something paraphrased as "Loot is unrewarding for the time invested, and the drop tables a polluted with too many undesirable items." That is a single sentence that conveyed what took you paragraphs. Then you need to offer at least a hint of a solution. ZOS is aware of the player stance on this, repeating it over and over will not solve the dilemma any faster.

    Second you need to understand what it is you're actually speaking about. RNG simply means random number generator. Better or worse doesn't factored into that, and you're distracting from what you saying with too many bulk details. What you're talking about is the loot system, and RNG is related to everything that is chance based and not just that.

    Lol. Ok. Here is a solution. Stop making the loot tables garbage. Done.

    And that's why few take you seriously. If you want discussion you need to offer reasonable grounds to discuss on. Seems to me you just want internet snark. Which I'm really confused by because you have a long history of acting butthurt after others respond to your snark with their own.

    Let me ask you something. Do I seem like the person to care whether or not someone on an Elder Scrolls forum takes me seriously or not? Let alone from a crowd of people who defend things that have glaring flaws, and will defend a company no matter how blatantly wrong the company is...? Do I...? Read up on me a tad bit.

    And if what I posted above was not reasonable enough, and didn't post enough things to go off in terms of fixing the RNG/loot issue with ESO? Then its honestly just too bad. As for acting snark...? Lol. Ok. If you say so.

    Just because someone criticizes your methods doesn't mean that they also disagree with your message. You'll do well to keep that in mind.

    The people you want to take you seriously are ZOS, or else your efforts are for not. Decide if you're just pissing in the wind or actually trying to further the cause of enacting change. Then remember to act in a way conducive to the goal.
  • disintegr8
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    I am being a good boy.
    Australian on PS4 NA server.
    Everyone's entitled to an opinion.
  • AlexTech0x
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    http://imgur.com/a/gIsXm
    Working as intended.
  • OutLaw_Nynx
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    If you quit this game you wouldn't care if they made it so only training dropped. Stop making these posts man. They're pointless. Zenimax doesn't care. And yes, you do get bothered by people calling you out.

    Edit
    Missed a word
    Edited by OutLaw_Nynx on November 21, 2016 5:42AM
  • raidentenshu_ESO
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    You speak the truth, Ch4mpTW.

    Coming from someone who seems to suffer from a severe case of “bad luck” The fact that I've been trying to obtain BIS gear for my magical DK seems to be taking years to get. I've been grinding nonstop in City of ash for god knows how long... and still I can't seem to get a break of getting the rightful traits of 4 items: Robes, Breeches and 2 spellweave inferno staffs (Sharpen). I'm also trying to get SPC for my templar, and still no such luck in finding the rightful traits.

    With each grind that I must do I find myself getting bored out of my mind with the certain dungeon.
  • TrueGreenSmoker
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    RnG lol been grinding world bosses for a Spinner Destro Sharpened for 3 days now today will be day 4... ZoS when will it end? I still need to get 5 lich (Belt, 2 rings, neck, and resto) and before this I spent a week grinding world bosses for Silk of the Sun 2 1H swords sharpened I gave up on that and changed to jewlery and body pieces sun...

    And buying these weapons are no option too poor lol

    PS4 - NA - CP 859+
    #1 Magicka Sorc - AD - High Elf - Vampire - TrueGreen
    #2 Magicka DK - AD - Dark Elf - Vampire - Flamy Burnin Alot
    #3 Magicka Temp - AD - High Elf - Vampire - TrueGreen Temp
    #4 Magicka NB - AD - Breton - Vampire - Magic of the Night
    #5 Magicka Sorc - DC - High Elf - Vampire - High Old Elf
    #6 Stamina Sorc - EP - Orc - Normal - Original Herbalist
    #7 Stamina NB - AD - Redguard - Vampire - Gank and Blaze
    #8 Magicka DK - EP - Argonian - Vamp - Flamy-Tail

    PS4 - EU - CP 249
    #1 Magicka Temp - DC - Breton - Normal - Mary Healer Jane
    #2 Magicka Sorc - DC High Elf - Normal - Baked Wizard of DC

    Playing on PS4 NA
    media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdgl7fwlj61ro2d43.gif
  • GawdSB
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    RNG giveth and RNG taketh.

    I got Two Purple Sripiggan rings and a Mother's Sorrow ring within 3 days. I've been grinding all day today for Lich sword and shield and haven't seen neither of the two. It's a struggle out here, but then there isn't.

  • SlayerTheDragon
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    @Ch4mpTW you cannot even begin to compare ZOS to Blizzard.

    But, yes you are correct. I have also been playing a lot of D3 until this weekend when there was a free weekend on Overwatch. At around midway through my first match I realised two things:

    1. Blizzard are master game builders (and I have been wasting so much time elsewhere)
    2. No PVP encounter will ever compare to what I just experienced.

    Come payday I will be moving over to OW fulltime. No leveling, no gear, no grinding - just skill.
    ¤═══¤ People don't like it when you talk to them with your weapon drawn ¤═══¤
  • Ch4mpTW
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    @Ch4mpTW you cannot even begin to compare ZOS to Blizzard.

    But, yes you are correct. I have also been playing a lot of D3 until this weekend when there was a free weekend on Overwatch. At around midway through my first match I realised two things:

    1. Blizzard are master game builders (and I have been wasting so much time elsewhere)
    2. No PVP encounter will ever compare to what I just experienced.

    Come payday I will be moving over to OW fulltime. No leveling, no gear, no grinding - just skill.

    There's a reason Blizzard makes hit after hit when it comes to their games, and also why it is that Overwatch is dominating the charts in regards to a successful multiplayer. Blizzard just knows how to please people, and keep people playing their games. The truth is that Blizzard are masters at hooking people, and KEEPING them hooked with little to no effort for extended periods of time. They aren't afraid to listen to community input, be different, and also take elements from other games and franchises and polish up on the areas that other games did wrong. In order to produce a game that only does right (for the most part). You'd think other companies would take a hint, but no. Lol.

    Also, congrats and nice. I'll be picking up Overwatch myself probably on Black Friday, but I don't know if I'll do it then or wait until Christmas. I've played the game, and had a blast doing so. And I see nothing but positive review after positive review. Plus those who I know play it are addicted to it OD, and won't stop trying to get me to buy it immediately. :p
  • Tyrion87
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    Smepic wrote: »
    A long thread filled with complaints. At least propose a solution, or at least an original one.

    But why should he propose any solution if ZOS doesn't listen to people and doesn't care about players' feedback? There were already many threads regarding broken RNG and constant grind in this game (with solutions!) and we haven't seen any changes in this regard in the game. Broken RNG is everywhere you look and that's why there are so many complaints from frustrated people who wasted so much of their free time for nothing and they could spend it on other aspects of this game which are enjoyable and fun for them. No wonder there are less and less good opinions about the game. Cause opinions come from people and if most of them are victims to so-called RNG, the game itself has really bad reputation.

    Broken RNG doesn't keep players playing in a long run cause if players are fed up, they quit.

    ZOS, we're mindlessly grinding instead of playing this game how we want!!!
  • SanTii.92
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    Dissapointed to see that putting you on ignore doesn't also remove your posts from my feed.
    When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
    the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.

    Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.
  • Rune_Relic
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Also, while we are talking about taking input from your player base — why do you all refuse to change the system in place if you constantly receive so many complaints about it...? I'm not a game developer, but I am pretty sure if a company had constant complaints every single day/week about how bad their system(a) is? They'd work hard on fixing it, and try to make it a tad bit better. They wouldn't constantly ignore the people lacing their pockets from subscription and crown store purchases, but rather try to please them to keep the bucks flowing in. Not slow down. That's counter-productive.

    http://math.arizona.edu/~ercolani/pyzdek.pdf

    A case in point regarding WOW changing their RNG system due to endless complaints.
    Didnt go anywhere near far enough, but an improvement.
    The point is they recognised RNG was a very bad problem and needed fixing.

    I wil start a new thread later on linear congruential generators (P-RNG) and how they are used for uniform distribution.
    http://wiki.osdev.org/Random_Number_Generator
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_congruential_generator#LCGs_in_common_use
    http://excel.officetuts.net/en/examples/random-number-generator
    Edited by Rune_Relic on November 21, 2016 12:10PM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • Ch4mpTW
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    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Also, while we are talking about taking input from your player base — why do you all refuse to change the system in place if you constantly receive so many complaints about it...? I'm not a game developer, but I am pretty sure if a company had constant complaints every single day/week about how bad their system(a) is? They'd work hard on fixing it, and try to make it a tad bit better. They wouldn't constantly ignore the people lacing their pockets from subscription and crown store purchases, but rather try to please them to keep the bucks flowing in. Not slow down. That's counter-productive.

    http://math.arizona.edu/~ercolani/pyzdek.pdf

    A case in point regarding WOW changing their RNG system due to endless complaints.
    Didnt go anywhere near far enough, but an improvement.
    The point is they recognised RNG was a very bad problem and needed fixing.

    I wil start a new thread later on linear congruential generators (P-RNG) and how they are used for uniform distribution.
    http://wiki.osdev.org/Random_Number_Generator
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_congruential_generator#LCGs_in_common_use
    http://excel.officetuts.net/en/examples/random-number-generator

    Nice and alright. I look forward to your thread.
    Edited by Ch4mpTW on November 21, 2016 1:42PM
  • Unsent.Soul
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    SanTii.92 wrote: »
    Dissapointed to see that putting you on ignore doesn't also remove your posts from my feed.

    And you had to mention this why?
  • Ch4mpTW
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    SanTii.92 wrote: »
    Dissapointed to see that putting you on ignore doesn't also remove your posts from my feed.

    And you had to mention this why?

    To be a "you-know-what", and get awesomes and agrees from the handful of people who strongly dislike me. Lmao. :D It's kinda obvious who those people are, as they never actually post anything constructive or positive on my threads. But rather bait and flame. Meanwhile some people view me as snarky and combative. Always looking for drama. Lol. I just smile and wave.
  • AlienSlof
    AlienSlof
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    And enough with the 'bruh' already. It's inaccurate and getting old.
    RIP Atherton, my beautiful little gentle friend, my Shining Light. I will miss you forever. Without you I am a hollow shell.
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
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    AlienSlof wrote: »
    And enough with the 'bruh' already. It's inaccurate and getting old.

    I have no idea what that has to do with the topic of the thread, but okay. Sure bruh.
  • Ampnode
    Ampnode
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    Well, 4 months later into my break and I see ol' Champ here doing the exact same thing. Poor boy.
    PC NA - CP640+

    Characters:
    Amp - Magicka Nightblade
    Amp - Magicka Sorcerer
    Amp - Magicka Templar
    Amp - Stamina Dragonknight
    Amp - Stamina Templar
    Amp - Magicka Dragonknight
    Amp - Stamina Sorcerer
    Amp - Stamina Nightblade
  • UrbanMonk
    UrbanMonk
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    sighs!!! no light yest at the end of ZOS RNG tunnelll...
    Urban.Monk

    -Monk I- Magden- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Tsürügi- MagBlade- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
    -Bantam Bomber- MagPlar- AVA28
    -Hot Nöödle- MagDK - AVA37
    -Pablo Necrobar- StamCro- AVA24



    youtube.com/c/UrbanMonkGaming
    Easiest mDK for vMA and vVH- https://youtu.be/dUxQO1FO1XQ

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Balance for the Sake of Balance is no Balance at all.
This discussion has been closed.