[spoilers] King Kurog ...

Ravena · November 2016

King Kurog did nothing wrong!

I mean, wow, the guy managed a treaty with his race's mortal enemies, rebuilt an impressive city from rubble, genuinely cared for his people, and would have kept it running smoothly if it weren't for the stubborn chiefs refusing to change their ways.

And in the end, the chiefs realized he was right and elected a king anyway...but they went back to worshipping Malacath. The deity whose famous words are "Never forget, never forgive". Eventually the Orcs will grow to distrust outsiders again, and all the work Kurog put into forging alliances be for naught. Maybe it could have prevented the second siege of Orsinium!

WhiteCoatSyndrome · November 2016

Except Kurog himself went back on it; all that talk about talking things over and moving away from the old ways only to lose patience and start killing people because they disagreed with you...so much for talking things over.

And you might recall they didn't trust outsiders to begin with. Remember the line about no Breton and Redguard armies allowed in the area, ever? Unless I'm badly mis-remembering, that was pre-Bazrag! They're pretty much doomed from the start when their allies aren't even allowed to come help them.

Also I gather his mother was behind most of the unification stuff anyway.

Integral1900 · November 2016

Big spoilers.... you've been warned

Old orsinium fell again and again often because it started the wars, its in the conversations with secondary characters that the peril is revealed. Trinamac has his dark side as well although it's well hidden. Like malacath he is a warrior god but unlike malacath he is focused, not generalised. A singular direction. It makes him every bit a violent and destructive as malacath, but its more manipulative and obsessive, and just a easily twisted by fanatics.

Kurog isnt really the villain, his mother is. Kurog is stubborn and hard headed but he is utterly dedicated to her. Bazrag says that the real tragedy is that he could not be freed from her. You have to remember that she simply will not stop. She is willing to unleash holy war, to kill her own people in order to put some of the orcs on top of the pile.

We see the face of this religious fanaticism in our own world. That's why evili sharp arrow says that nothing is clear anymore, it's all grey. Bazrag talks of having to stop the avalanche kurog is trying to unleash, a religious war driven by the rage of voshrak fanatics, a war that would never stop until either the orcs were annihilated or tamriel was turned into a charnel house.

Dark_Claw · November 2016

This thread just goes to show why Orsinium, in my opinion at least, has the best plot line out of every zone in the game. I genuinely liked Kurog to begin with and agreed with his motives which made him a more relatable, realistic antagonist, plus the final battle with him is arguably the most epic single player boss fight so far.

Enslaved · November 2016

First of all, Trinimac is what Malacath was before transformation. It is the same thing at its core.

Second, Orsimer are warrior race. They excel as warriors and thrive in battle. Everything else is just an intermezzo for next conflict, next war.

Third, DC is not the best place for an Orsimer. Redguards are their enemies, Bretons are their enemies. They always were and always will. Kurog tried to change that and failed. I dislike being betrayed, but I can see why Kurog did what he had to do. Orsimer are not used to be under the banner of a sole ruler, and if you want to unite a nation, you have to dominate over its most significant leaders. And in Orsimer's culture, that means just one thing - kill or be killed. No tribe will follow a leader that kissed other ones boot. They had to be killed.

Forth, Trinimac was something that needed to be forced on Orsimer ppl for DC to be forged in the first place. Malacath, who was defeated and betrayed, became God of revenge. And Orsimer hold grudge against both Redguards whiny Bretons. Trinimac supposed to give Orsimer something that is not only "an eye for an eye" they had with Malacath. I understand why so many Orsimer tribes had problem accepting the new order of things, since, as a Nord, I "will have" the same problem in about 2 eras when Talos was forbidden by the damn elves and their imperial puppets.

Fifth, Kurog's dream of unification was not planned that well and was put in motion even worse. I am sorry about what happened afterwards, but the transition was too fast and too sudden for most of Orsimer folk, leaving them without true leader, with shaken identity and vulnerable to what their true enemies, Bretons and Redguards will do to them once again.

Conclusion. Never ever trust a Breton or Redguard. Malacath was right.

Ravena · November 2016

Malacath still is, however, a corrupted version who inherited only the bad traits of what Trinimac once was. If Trinimac had both a heroic AND a vengeful side, Malacath inherited only the latter one.

For instance - Malacath's realm has no place for gentle souls, but Trinimac's does according to Bazrag, which is why he prays that Solgra found her way to him if she dies.

The DC were their enemies up until then because the Orsimer were never willing to forgive, to move on, and frankly, never would have been if Kurog hadn't taken charge. It goes against everything Malacath stands for.

Malacath became a God of Revenge after being betrayed, and now he dooms his followers to a similar fate over and over again. Poison their minds with ideals of battle and vengeance so that the other people will continue to view them as blood-lusting savages. Kurog understood that - and he understood that in order to avoid such fate, his people had to change who they were.

Part of the treaty was that Redguard or Breton armies should never set foot in Wrothgar, ever. Kurog is very aware such thing would make his people extremely uneasy. Chief Bazrag admits in the end that the main thing that kept him from hearing Kurog's side out was his own stubborness, which he regrets deeply.

If only there was a way to get rid of Kurog's poisonous mother before she ensnared him. I daresay the Second Siege of Orsinium might never have come to pass. Malacath being in charge of the Orcs means that eventually they will grow to repulse and distrust outsiders again, leading to them breaking apart from the DC. I'm sure the Orcs will be the first to leave.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · November 2016

Ravena wrote: »

I'm sure the Orcs will be the first to leave.

I concur; the Orcs only really joined in the first place because Kurog and Emeric were buddies; they don't really have a reason to stay with him gone.

Ankael07 · November 2016

Orsinium's plot turned out to be much darker and real than I expected. I'd recommend everyone, its worth the crowns.

Mettaricana · November 2016

Dark_Claw wrote: »

This thread just goes to show why Orsinium, in my opinion at least, has the best plot line out of every zone in the game. I genuinely liked Kurog to begin with and agreed with his motives which made him a more relatable, realistic antagonist, plus the final battle with him is arguably the most epic single player boss fight so far.

I wanna be a super saiyan dragon knight like him also not the lame normal dk

ConeOfSilence · November 2016

Has to be the best story line map of the game from what I have seen just skipping through the dialogue 3 times now.

Sinolai · November 2016

Ravena wrote: »

King Kurog did nothing wrong!

I mean, wow, the guy managed a treaty with his race's mortal enemies, rebuilt an impressive city from rubble, genuinely cared for his people, and would have kept it running smoothly if it weren't for the stubborn chiefs refusing to change their ways.

And in the end, the chiefs realized he was right and elected a king anyway...but they went back to worshipping Malacath. The deity whose famous words are "Never forget, never forgive". Eventually the Orcs will grow to distrust outsiders again, and all the work Kurog put into forging alliances be for naught. Maybe it could have prevented the second siege of Orsinium!

When I did the quest I was hoping I could have just left the Wrothgar for a few months after the Shield-Wife saved my life and told me not to interfere. I owed her that much but unfortunately that was not an option

Knootewoot · November 2016

Enslaved wrote: »

First of all, Trinimac is what Malacath was before transformation. It is the same thing at its core.

Second, Orsimer are warrior race. They excel as warriors and thrive in battle. Everything else is just an intermezzo for next conflict, next war.

Third, DC is not the best place for an Orsimer. Redguards are their enemies, Bretons are their enemies. They always were and always will. Kurog tried to change that and failed. I dislike being betrayed, but I can see why Kurog did what he had to do. Orsimer are not used to be under the banner of a sole ruler, and if you want to unite a nation, you have to dominate over its most significant leaders. And in Orsimer's culture, that means just one thing - kill or be killed. No tribe will follow a leader that kissed other ones boot. They had to be killed.

Forth, Trinimac was something that needed to be forced on Orsimer ppl for DC to be forged in the first place. Malacath, who was defeated and betrayed, became God of revenge. And Orsimer hold grudge against both Redguards whiny Bretons. Trinimac supposed to give Orsimer something that is not only "an eye for an eye" they had with Malacath. I understand why so many Orsimer tribes had problem accepting the new order of things, since, as a Nord, I "will have" the same problem in about 2 eras when Talos was forbidden by the damn elves and their imperial puppets.

Fifth, Kurog's dream of unification was not planned that well and was put in motion even worse. I am sorry about what happened afterwards, but the transition was too fast and too sudden for most of Orsimer folk, leaving them without true leader, with shaken identity and vulnerable to what their true enemies, Bretons and Redguards will do to them once again.

Conclusion. Never ever trust a Breton or Redguard. Malacath was right.

I AM A BRETON AND I SAY KILL 'M ALL

TheImperfect · November 2016

I think he had great sounding intentions and if it worked it could have been great but really at the base of it his real motivations were he was power crazed and egomaniacal.

americansteel · November 2016

Enslaved wrote: »

First of all, Trinimac is what Malacath was before transformation. It is the same thing at its core.

Second, Orsimer are warrior race. They excel as warriors and thrive in battle. Everything else is just an intermezzo for next conflict, next war.

Third, DC is not the best place for an Orsimer. Redguards are their enemies, Bretons are their enemies. They always were and always will. Kurog tried to change that and failed. I dislike being betrayed, but I can see why Kurog did what he had to do. Orsimer are not used to be under the banner of a sole ruler, and if you want to unite a nation, you have to dominate over its most significant leaders. And in Orsimer's culture, that means just one thing - kill or be killed. No tribe will follow a leader that kissed other ones boot. They had to be killed.

Forth, Trinimac was something that needed to be forced on Orsimer ppl for DC to be forged in the first place. Malacath, who was defeated and betrayed, became God of revenge. And Orsimer hold grudge against both Redguards whiny Bretons. Trinimac supposed to give Orsimer something that is not only "an eye for an eye" they had with Malacath. I understand why so many Orsimer tribes had problem accepting the new order of things, since, as a Nord, I "will have" the same problem in about 2 eras when Talos was forbidden by the damn elves and their imperial puppets.

Fifth, Kurog's dream of unification was not planned that well and was put in motion even worse. I am sorry about what happened afterwards, but the transition was too fast and too sudden for most of Orsimer folk, leaving them without true leader, with shaken identity and vulnerable to what their true enemies, Bretons and Redguards will do to them once again.

Conclusion. Never ever trust a Breton or Redguard. Malacath was right.

Orcs acceled at getting defeated constantly, the followers of trinimac have no place to call home.

Many orcs have resided in skyrim and these orc clans fought with the EP in the 3 banners war.

The idea or "cult" of Trinimac exists Trinimac it self does not.

never forget never forgive - Trinimac was devourde and corrupted by a daedric prince.

Trinimac has no realm in aetherius, even the other daedric princes dont recognize malacath as a prince. lore wise Orsinium was lopsided.

Korah_Eaglecry · November 2016

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Except Kurog himself went back on it; all that talk about talking things over and moving away from the old ways only to lose patience and start killing people because they disagreed with you...so much for talking things over.

And you might recall they didn't trust outsiders to begin with. Remember the line about no Breton and Redguard armies allowed in the area, ever? Unless I'm badly mis-remembering, that was pre-Bazrag! They're pretty much doomed from the start when their allies aren't even allowed to come help them.

Also I gather his mother was behind most of the unification stuff anyway.

Not to mention that the reason they called you the Vestige to Wrothgar in the first place was to be a pawn in Kurog and his Mothers scheming. They always planned to throw you under the Echalette.