Fully Understanding One Tamriel's Scaling the Hard Way

ArchMikem · November 2016

Just today I decided to try and make a new Main character and play it as a Magicka Nightblade, see how different it is to Stamina which has been one of my Mains for a while now. I actually started to really enjoy it, and I couldn't believe the numbers I was getting! At around Level 8 I was able to get my Spell Damage up past 2100 using just the buff from Cloak, and my Magicka Regen was THROUGH THE ROOF. I felt like this was going to be an amazing character and that I'd been missing out something fierce with Magblades.

But then I began to level up.

And as I leveled, the numbers dropped. Logging off tonight at Level 19 my character has lost over 400 points of base Spell Damage, and my Regen is down 500 points. I got weaker, by getting stronger? I know that this will somehow level out once I get to 50 and I set myself up with some crafted sets, enchants and the like, but still, this has been the most depressing new character I've ever made. With this outlook that this Magblade's stats won't end up being nearly as great as I thought they'd be, I'm back to feeling like I should just abandon it and go back to the tried and true Mains I have.

andryuhav · November 2016

Scalling doesn't meen you don't need to upgrade your gear. If you manage to keep your gear up-to-date, you'll be residing on pretty much the same stats all the way to CP160

RAGUNAnoOne · November 2016

andryuhav wrote: »

Scalling doesn't meen you don't need to upgrade your gear. If you manage to keep your gear up-to-date, you'll be residing on pretty much the same stats all the way to CP160

True but if it the incentive to upgrading gear is only to prevent you from getting weaker then that is a problem for both incentive to level up and immersion and one of the reasons I dislike the current scaling system. also you should be weaker when you start out so you have to learn the basics of your class

Darethran · November 2016

Immersion? In this game?

You can't drop any items; you can only destroy them. You can't use furniture. Doors hardly move when you push them. You can wear a dress and have the stats of max level, end-game, completely upgraded gear. You will be slain by auto-attacks that you can't see nor avoid (procs).

Doing the same dungeon with the same teammates of different levels, will have different gear levels; that fancy sword you got at level 14, fighting side by side with a CP 160 dude? Complete trash. His exact same weapon, but with a higher number? A fancy piece of gear.

Argonians have rights.

Immersion is the least of your worries, bub.

You shouldn't be weaker at all when you make a character, by means of your damage formula input numbers being smaller than the no-lifer who's played for three years. You should be weaker because you don't know how to string your moves together, how to duck 'n' dodge, how to sprint away from danger 'n' meet up with your allies.

In a game with active combat (re: any game that isn't using a combat system from the mid 90s), it should be your ability to play the game that affects how well you fight, not how many killowatt hours you have poured into one line's worth of algebra.

Elsonso · November 2016

Remember folks, Level-Scaling Really Works Well in PvE, and it does so by making your character progressively weaker as it levels.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · November 2016

If you keep your equip up to level it doesn't feel to bad until are around level 40. It was around that level, when I suddenly started to notice I wasn't doing any really damage, and I could no longer keep my resources up.

BlanketFort · November 2016

I must be experiencing the game wrong. My new toon's numbers pretty much stay the same throughout levelling. And my gear is only rated at 2 stars, and I'm not going to bother with sets/gear at lvl 30+. I'll worry about numbers when I hit 160 CP.

SaRuZ · November 2016

Explains why when I run dungeons with lvl 12's, they do more DPS than I do.

Rune_Relic · November 2016

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

andryuhav wrote: »

Scalling doesn't meen you don't need to upgrade your gear. If you manage to keep your gear up-to-date, you'll be residing on pretty much the same stats all the way to CP160

True but if it the incentive to upgrading gear is only to prevent you from getting weaker then that is a problem for both incentive to level up and immersion and one of the reasons I dislike the current scaling system. also you should be weaker when you start out so you have to learn the basics of your class

But you are weaker regardless of gear.
Thats why you level every skill.
Its your 'skill experience' that gives you an edge.

ie Your overall levelling is a combination of many levels of independent skills.
Should being character levl 50 instantly make DW level 50 and resto level 50 and every other skill level 50 too ?
There is no need for Vertical character progression as we have vertical skill progression instead.
Character progression should have no influence on skill progression/scaling.

Elsonso · November 2016

BlanketFort wrote: »

I must be experiencing the game wrong. My new toon's numbers pretty much stay the same throughout levelling. And my gear is only rated at 2 stars, and I'm not going to bother with sets/gear at lvl 30+. I'll worry about numbers when I hit 160 CP.

That you imply that this is a good thing chills my blood in ways you cannot possibly imagine.

ArchMikem · November 2016

MajinCry wrote: »

In a game with active combat (re: any game that isn't using a combat system from the mid 90s), it should be your ability to play the game that affects how well you fight, not how many killowatt hours you have poured into one line's worth of algebra.

It SHOULD be, yes, but that's not the reality of things. This game is nothing but the numbers in the end. You're only as good as your stats tell you, and no amount of bunny hopping and or dodge rolling can make much of a difference if your numbers are worse than those you're up against. Math rules over us all in ESO. Maybe Algebra should be Emperor.

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

If you keep your equip up to level it doesn't feel to bad until are around level 40. It was around that level, when I suddenly started to notice I wasn't doing any really damage, and I could no longer keep my resources up.

That's when I noticed a serious lack in power with my Sorc and DK side characters as well, and I just don't have the Gold and Materials to get them as geared as my Mains are. I really am having some fun with this Magblade but I'm dreading what's to come.

idk · November 2016

andryuhav wrote: »

Scalling doesn't meen you don't need to upgrade your gear. If you manage to keep your gear up-to-date, you'll be residing on pretty much the same stats all the way to CP160

@ArchMikem

This is your answer. Basically it's like dumping the CP160 gear in favor of lvl 45 gear and wondering why the character is doing less damage.

You should still be able to go 10-15 levels on the same gear without issue, just be a little bet weaker at the end.

Elsonso · November 2016

.

ArchMikem wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

If you keep your equip up to level it doesn't feel to bad until are around level 40. It was around that level, when I suddenly started to notice I wasn't doing any really damage, and I could no longer keep my resources up.

That's when I noticed a serious lack in power with my Sorc and DK side characters as well, and I just don't have the Gold and Materials to get them as geared as my Mains are. I really am having some fun with this Magblade but I'm dreading what's to come.

As a new character approaches Level 50, they become closer to a Level 50 Main in terms of power. This sounds right, but in a Level Scaled world, it can be an odd feeling.

The problem is that low level characters are not powerful, so scaling takes that into account. They have to make it so that new players, with new characters, have a chance in the world. This makes an experienced player very powerful at low levels (in PVE) because they know how to play. They know the tricks, the moves, when to attack, when not to, what skills to use, what pots and food to use, and what armor to wear. Worst case, they have hundreds of Champion Points. Skill drives those low level alts to be very powerful.

If this was allowed to happen, to the same degree, all the way to Level 50, the Level 50 characters would be gods, with or without Champion Points. That defeats the whole point of level scaling. So, as the character levels, the power has to be dialed back, and an experienced player will notice this. Even without numbers floating on the screen.

ArchMikem · November 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

andryuhav wrote: »

Scalling doesn't meen you don't need to upgrade your gear. If you manage to keep your gear up-to-date, you'll be residing on pretty much the same stats all the way to CP160

@ArchMikem

This is your answer. Basically it's like dumping the CP160 gear in favor of lvl 45 gear and wondering why the character is doing less damage.

You should still be able to go 10-15 levels on the same gear without issue, just be a little bet weaker at the end.

It wasn't an answer being sought though? I'm not forcing my character to crawl around in their Soul Shriven rags the whole way.

Elsonso · November 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

andryuhav wrote: »

Scalling doesn't meen you don't need to upgrade your gear. If you manage to keep your gear up-to-date, you'll be residing on pretty much the same stats all the way to CP160

@ArchMikem

This is your answer. Basically it's like dumping the CP160 gear in favor of lvl 45 gear and wondering why the character is doing less damage.

You should still be able to go 10-15 levels on the same gear without issue, just be a little bet weaker at the end.

It wasn't an answer being sought though? I'm not forcing my character to crawl around in their Soul Shriven rags the whole way.

It would be interesting to see how the numbers stack up at each level with that equipment, though.